Quoted from FYMF:I like your reply but not as much as I like discovering how internet downvotes affect you.
I'm going go with this take-a-way. If I or anyone else downvotes you then you will give an awesome response.
Lol, I am way too high to figure that algebra out right now.
I legit want to know. Is Spooky scaling up via CGC?
If so... they got something good I bet
Quoted from PW79:Why the thumbs down on my post?
It really looks like this is exactly what is happening. CGC building Spooky games since they can’t (in substantial numbers). Sure, I could be wrong. I get it, am I wrong?
I think yall got hung up on the R&M part since you like owning a rare game? For real, you guys can have it. Same for Lebowski & Aliens. I am not crying for a VE on much other than RBION just so I can have that GFE with a new box
R&M was an example of a Spooky game made in low numbers due to an inability to produce high numbers & how contracting with CGC unlocks millions for Spooky & it would be wise to do so.
By contracting the build out to CGC it will be easy to commit to higher build numbers on games without as much risk.
Are they really subcontracting out production on the next title just to make very few games?
Maybe, but that seems weird. This really seems like a strategy to scale up. Almost like what CGC did with Stern. Would be an odd idea, teaming up to do less.
Considering Spooky is sized to build 40-50 games per month, it really doesn't matter how many machines they plan to build with a CGC collaboration. Their in-house manufacturing is already committed for the next 16 months or so with Rick and Morty. So, short of increasing their own line capabilities, this is the only way they can bring another game to market in the next year and a half. Very low risk for them and a smart move, regardless of whether the title i(and machine run) is big or small.
I believe it was basically described as that on the first page. I believe (I haven't listened) it was stated in the podcast it was brought up on that the license was too big for Spooky to do on their own. Spooky/Ben have the dev/knowhow, CGC has the building chops. (No offense to anyone, it's an oversimplification) .
Quoted from PW79:Lol, I am way too high to figure that algebra out right now.
I legit want to know. Is Spooky scaling up via CGC?
If so... they got something good I bet
Yea. I may have just bamboozled myself with that 1 as well.
That's the word that was announced like 30 hours ago.
Alot of speculation as to what it is. Maybe Back to the Future. Maybe Rocky Horror Picture Show. Maybe Army of Darkness/Evil Dead. Bunch of other speculation.
Go check out the newly created thread. Good fun
Holy shit we are in that thread right now. Maybe we have the same dealer?
I like going to the showings, but I just don't see a Rocky Horror Picture Show machine selling well.
Ben always thought the license "Fifth Element" was good and talk of Bruce Willis was difficult to deal with.
Quoted from PW79:I think yall got hung up on the R&M part since you like owning a rare game? For real, you guys can have it. Same for Lebowski & Aliens. I am not crying for a VE on much other than RBION just so I can have that GFE with a new box
R&M was an example of a Spooky game made in low numbers due to an inability to produce high numbers & how contracting with CGC unlocks millions for Spooky & it would be wise to do so.
By contracting the build out to CGC it will be easy to commit to higher build numbers on games without as much risk
Had Charlie made this deal earlier maybe. I too would love to see more R&M, I didn't buy it because it's rare I love the theme. But unlike Stern and JJP he keeps his word so he doesn't screw over his customers. How many times has Jersey jack released a new "Limited edition" of the wizard of oz or Hobbit, or Stern claim they aren't going to make a premium so everyone buys an LE, then "whoops, here's the premium version".
Quoted from PW79:Lol, I am way too high to figure that algebra out right now.
I legit want to know. Is Spooky scaling up via CGC?
If so... they got something good I bet
If you listen to the podcast is is all pretty obvious.
Think of spooky as the design team and idea team.
Think of CGC as the mechanical engineer and production team.
Spooky's limitaitons/needs = the ability to design and make new cool mechs that require fabrication and engineering + the ability to make more than 500 games a year.
Spooky's abilities = a great idea, game design, code, etc... team of allstars + the ability to now go get large licenses.
CGC limitations/need = they lack novel ideas and people to make it all come together. They are running out of all star classics to remake and will need to start sprinkling in new and novel games. Gotta assume they have been wanting to build something on their own since Day 1 of dealing with Rick. Guy is a class act all the way around and can you imagine your entire reproduction game business being held in his hands. Time to diversify and show they can do a cool new game.
CGC abilities = engineers for cool mechs and the ability to build 1000s of quality games a year.
I expect we see some sort of very cool mech in Ben's game. How he thinks and CGC can make his thoughts into a reality.
I expect we see a build quality that is top notch and possibly a new/improved boardset that then allows Spooky to also get away from being locked on Proc.
I expect we see a big licensed theme. Something that can easily sell 2000 games. Guesisng we see the CGC model of standard and big screen special edition (or whatever they call them).
Both short term and long term possible benefits for both companies and pinball as a whole.
Real competition to Stern being the production big dog.
I wonder if this means Stern also needs to step up quality finally?
Does this represent more of a joint collaboration between Spooky and CGC in producing the game or is this more along this lines of coming to an agreement where Ben's game moves to CGC as a way to get made and for Spooky to get another game out in the next 18 months? In other words, is it collaboration, contract manufacturing, or something in between?
Quoted from PW79:Right
CGC will manufacture so Spooky can avoid losing $5M in unrealized sales like with R&M?
That's smart.
Buckle up Stern lol
I am not sure if it just your wording or you dont get it?
Nobody lost money with unrealized sales on R&M
This is about new collaborations and team work moving forward.
You are correct that Stern has surely taken notice (they did before with their Dankberg moves to grab licences from Spooky)
Quoted from Whysnow:Nobody lost money with unrealized sales on R&M
Unrealized sales aren't a loss, they are potential sales that never materialized due to the inability to meet demand.
Think of it this way, if Spooky could make 150-200 games a month how many MORE of R&M could they have sold?
the old phrase is "leaving money on the table"
Quoted from DBLM:Does this represent more of a joint collaboration between Spooky and CGC in producing the game or is this more along this lines of coming to an agreement where Ben's game moves to CGC as a way to get made and for Spooky to get another game out in the next 18 months? In other words, is it collaboration, contract manufacturing, or something in between?
I would speculate that this pin is likely more of a CGC game than Spooky. It's probably just a case where in order to utilize the game that Spooky paid Ben to develop that they need to cut Spooky a slice of the pie to compensate. Maybe Spooky helped with the licensing too but this doesn't seem like a situation where it's a Spooky game developed completely in house and then contract manufactured out to CGC.
Quoted from Whysnow:that was my point
Agreed
I think what PW79 was saying is that at their current production capacity Spooky has left money on the table.
Spooky partnering with CGC has opened the door for a substantial amount of future sales.
Good move for both sides.
Quoted from DanDanDAN:Agreed
I think what PW79 was saying is that at their current production capacity Spooky has left money on the table.
Spooky partnering with CGC has opened the door for a substantial amount of future sales.
Good move for both sides.
It’s an excellent move.
A bit of funky speculation happening in here. It looks as though this benefits all sides.
Spooky paid Ben to design a game. That game isn't being produced by Spooky in the near future. CGC picking it up = win for Spooky.
Ben designed a game. He wants to see it produced. CGC picking it up = win for Ben.
CGC is looking for new titles. They are great at producing and selling. CGC picking it up = win for CGC.
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:I remember every little thing as if it happened only yesterday.
This is the first line of Meatloaf's song " Paradise By The Dashboard Lights ". Bat out of hell it is.
Quoted from MikeS:I would speculate that this pin is likely more of a CGC game than Spooky. It's probably just a case where in order to utilize the game that Spooky paid Ben to develop that they need to cut Spooky a slice of the pie to compensate. Maybe Spooky helped with the licensing too but this doesn't seem like a situation where it's a Spooky game developed completely in house and then contract manufactured out to CGC.
That is the way that I read it too. Good to see companies work together but I don't necessarily think we should rush to judgment that the companies are working together more than what they are. Definitely could open the doors for future collaboration.
Quoted from rzgrip:This is the first line of Meatloaf's song " Paradise By The Dashboard Lights ". Bat out of hell it is.
Bat out of hell= Beetle out of netherworld
Quoted from rzgrip:This is the first line of Meatloaf's song " Paradise By The Dashboard Lights ". Bat out of hell it is.
Or the second line spoken in the song 'Wasted Youth'.
Many of these suggestions with Evil Dead, Jaws or Scooby Doo does nothing for me... But a Meat Loaf, Bat out of Hell themed pinball? I'd be in so fast! Though I suspect not many 27 year olds would fancy the same, so I don't know if that's a smart move for the younger market.
Quoted from MikeS:I would speculate that this pin is likely more of a CGC game than Spooky. It's probably just a case where in order to utilize the game that Spooky paid Ben to develop that they need to cut Spooky a slice of the pie to compensate. Maybe Spooky helped with the licensing too but this doesn't seem like a situation where it's a Spooky game developed completely in house and then contract manufactured out to CGC.
I think it is the opposite.
This is very much a spooky designed and coded game; just built and produced by CGC.
It is kind of like the kapow/Stern relationship, but more on the spectrum of the Spooky side for game input and development plus more collaboration of both.
This is not a 'contract' but a "team build"
IMHO, the way it should be.
I have to stop you there. Spooky embracing the P-roc expanded their capacities and gave them tried and true technology. I don't see them replacing something that is working fine. Ben and parkers new board is improved from their previous iteration (pinheck) but it's capacities are unknown and its untested in the real world. It looks good so far but aside from a lower cost I see no benefits yet. Besides thats a presumption anyway that Spooky would use this boardset just because CGC will use it with Bens game.
Quoted from Whysnow:If you listen to the podcast is is all pretty obvious.
<snip>
I expect we see a build quality that is top notch and possibly a new/improved boardset that then allows Spooky to also get away from being locked on Proc.
I wonder if this means Stern also needs to step up quality finally?
Of all the suggestions I like Beetlejuice the most. It has cross generational appeal. Plus it’s quirky and funny, and has action appeal. It’s the best fit.
Quoted from jwilson:Of all the suggestions I like Beetlejuice the most. It has cross generational appeal. Plus it’s quirky and funny, and has action appeal. It’s the best fit.
We just saw it on Broadway a few months ago and it would be approved by my entire family.
My favorite thing in life : person on Pinside bitching that Stern is one big money grab. 2 posts later, same person bitching that Spooky isn't.
I love you people. You make me feel so smart.
Quoted from Whysnow:I think it is the opposite.
This is very much a spooky designed and coded game; just built and produced by CGC.
It is kind of like the kapow/Stern relationship, but more on the spectrum of the Spooky side for game input and development plus more collaboration of both.
This is not a 'contract' but a "team build"
IMHO, the way it should be.
As this game is designed and will be coded by Ben, where do Spooky fit?
Guessing no Bowen input on this game.
And listening to podcast, it has to be a triple A license.
Not many of above qualify to be called a triple A.
Guess more news by Texas as won't pay to be late to the party with GnR, Deeproot and Turtles all around this time.
Evil Dead, Beetlejuice, and Gremlins are all cool themes which totally fit Spooky, which I think would make great pins. Are they really that "big" of properties outside of what Spooky can handle themselves?
I still think a Nintendo property (Mario or Zelda) would kill it and sell a ton of machines if done well. I would guess the licensing from Nintendo could be tricky. As a big Zelda fan, that would be a pin I would love to see made by Spooky/CGC/Ben.
Quoted from brucipher:Evil Dead, Beetlejuice, and Gremlins are all cool themes which totally fit Spooky, which I think would make great pins. Are they really that "big" of properties outside of what Spooky can handle themselves?
Spooky can likely handle the licence, but larger production numbers is something they can’t handle they simply don’t have the capacity.
Contracting out to CGC to build allows a larger production run, which gives spooky a larger number of games to spread the larger cost of a bigger licences over, making them more affordable.
Yea, the whole reason Spooky didn't make more R&M was because of the timeframe required to make more. I think this move is to remedy that situation for something they predict will be a big seller. I think R&M demand really caught them off guard.
Quoted from Zablon:Yea, the whole reason Spooky didn't make more R&M was because of the timeframe required to make more. I think this move is to remedy that situation for something they predict will be a big seller. I think R&M demand really caught them off guard.
Yeah exactly! This seems the most likely and pretty much the takeaway from the podcast, no idea why people are coming up with random theories on this one.
From TWIP:
“Spooky] made the deal for however many [Rick and Mortys] would be produced with Cartoon Network. Charlie did tell me that they make that deal because it gives them their 18 months of production and keeps them busy, but also because they already have two more licenses that are being worked on. And those licenses also have a time frame on when they need to be built…although we know they’re busy for the next 18 months with [Rick and Morty], and they already have their plans…with whatever those next licenses are…[Charlie Emery] said the next two licenses are ready to go and they’re already on the clock”.
– This Flippin’ Podcast
Pretty simple reading that they have 2 licences that need producing now! Get someone else to build them for you, problem solved!
Quoted from Zablon:Yea, the whole reason Spooky didn't make more R&M was because of the timeframe required to make more. I think this move is to remedy that situation for something they predict will be a big seller. I think R&M demand really caught them off guard.
Going to be interesting to see how this pans out out.
R&M was a dream theme.
With a dream team working on it.
Just the right number to create FOMO.
And assets and custom call outs.
Whatever the theme is, it needs to be a biggie!
Not a big fan of that Beetlejuice mock art. I really hate machines with photos / pictures of actors on them.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:I have to stop you there. Spooky embracing the P-roc expanded their capacities and gave them tried and true technology. I don't see them replacing something that is working fine. Ben and parkers new board is improved from their previous iteration (pinheck) but it's capacities are unknown and its untested in the real world. It looks good so far but aside from a lower cost I see no benefits yet. Besides thats a presumption anyway that Spooky would use this boardset just because CGC will use it with Bens game.
Proc has been great. Was a much needed and great use for the current phase of Spooky.
It is also expensive and a risk for any company looking to stabilize as they grow.
I have zero idea what boardset will be used with this team build.
I hope for Spooky that they can get to a point of greater control, lower cost, and full functionality for their boardset of the future.
I am excited to see what the new Parker board does and if it is used.
Again, Proc is great for what it is, but if buying 500+ a year, I would want to bring more control and savings in house...
The boardset in the team build is probably the PinoTaur rev2 board that Ben and Parker are working on.
https://macrofab.com/blog/mep-ep207-beating-dragons-with-quarters/
Quoted from Whysnow:Proc has been great. Was a much needed and great use for the current phase of Spooky.
It is also expensive and a risk for any company looking to stabilize as they grow.
I have zero idea what boardset will be used with this team build.
I hope for Spooky that they can get to a point of greater control, lower cost, and full functionality for their boardset of the future.
I am excited to see what the new Parker board does and if it is used.
Again, Proc is great for what it is, but if buying 500+ a year, I would want to bring more control and savings in house...
Quoted from benheck:It's a re-theme of the game I designed for Spooky back in 2017. (and it's not Bible Adventures)
I am acting as game designer and will also be doing the code. My goal is to have a very mechanically satisfying game under the glass that will excite location players but also have a deep rule set to please those in home environments.
I am acting as game designer and will also be doing the code. MY goaL Is To have a very mechanically saTisfying game under the gLass that will Excite location Players but alsO have a deep rule set to please those iN home envIronmEntS.
Me: Enhance 2-24-176. Enhance, stop! Move in...stop. Pull out track right, stop. Center in pull back, stop. Track 45 right, stop. Center & stop. Enhance 34 to 36. Pan right and pull back, stop. Enhance 34 to 46. Pull back, wait a minute, go right. Stop. Enhance 57-19. Track 45 left, stop. Enhance 15 to 23. Give me a hard copy right there:
MY-goaL-Is-To-saTisfying-gLass-Excite-Players-alsO-iN-envIronmEntS.
MY LITTLE PONIES! My Little Pony! It is confirmed!
Quoted from Zablon:Ebola: The Pin.
Plague, the pin.
Now featuring new vectors such as Sars and Covid19
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spooky-cgc-and-ben-heck-join-forces/page/7?hl=nogoodnames222 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Wentzville, MO
Torrens Park
Smørum
Toronto, ON
Warrington