(Topic ID: 263158)

Spooky, CGC, and Ben Heck join forces!!!

By Whysnow

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Pin_Fandango
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    There are 638 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 13.
    #451 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    Retail pricing is found in our web store: https://www.multimorphic.com/category/circuit-boards/
    P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45
    PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85
    PD-LED (LED driver board) : $70
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    So the cost of 1 and a half Stern node boards here in the U.K....?

    I’d say Proc is a bargain in comparison

    #452 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    Retail pricing is found in our web store: https://www.multimorphic.com/category/circuit-boards/
    P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45
    PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85
    PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    Is this the full set needed for R and M? Or donI need multiples of some?

    #453 1 year ago
    Quoted from FrederikFrost:

    Or the second line spoken in the song 'Wasted Youth'.
    Many of these suggestions with Evil Dead, Jaws or Scooby Doo does nothing for me... But a Meat Loaf, Bat out of Hell themed pinball? I'd be in so fast! Though I suspect not many 27 year olds would fancy the same, so I don't know if that's a smart move for the younger market.

    Just you mate!

    Nay to Evil dead but yay to Meatloaf, are you really 27?

    10
    #454 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Is this the full set needed for R and M? Or donI need multiples of some?

    You probably know that better than I do. When I got out of my morning meetings, R&M was sold out! My email to Charlie and Kayte that day was a heartfelt congratulations.

    I can't imagine anybody would ever need a full set of replacements. If a board makes it through testing, the odds of one of our boards dying from normal use are super low. Maybe have a spare of each in case of an accidental short? You can always replace your spare later if necessary.

    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    #455 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45

    By my count there at least 18 different ponies including Twilight Sparkle, Rainbow Dash, & Applejack. You'll need multiple boards if each character has a switch/mode/shot.

    #456 1 year ago
    Quoted from cmack750:

    More extrapolated game theory.....
    Charlie used the line from Paradise by the Dashboard Light in this thread.
    Song was written by Meatloaf.
    Meatloaf was in Rocky Horror Picture Show AND the song was used as a theater trailer prior to the movie.
    First midnight showing of RHPS was in 1976.
    Also released in 1976: ROCKY
    The antagonist in Rocky was Carl Weathers (Apollo Creed)
    Carl Weathers also starred in another movie, meaningful to pinball......
    Clearly, Predator is the next title.

    Like how you think !!!

    #457 1 year ago

    Waynes World has Meatloaf in it as well..

    would love a Die Hard or Fifth Element

    #458 1 year ago

    Hmmm...a team up of companies.

    A2080744-AAD4-401A-96C1-F51D6529E478 (resized).jpeg
    -3
    #459 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    You probably know that better than I do. When I got out of my morning meetings, R&M was sold out! My email to Charlie and Kayte that day was a heartfelt congratulations.
    I can't imagine anybody would ever need a full set of replacements. If a board makes it through testing, the odds of one of our boards dying from normal use are super low. Maybe have a spare of each in case of an accidental short? You can always replace your spare later if necessary.
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    honestly, I have zero clue. Hence my question.

    How man of each are used on R&M?

    I figured this was and easy question for you to answer. I was trying to understand what the full retail cost of the full Proc system running R&M is.

    This

    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45
    PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85
    PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70

    makes it sound like under $400, but my understanding is that the game likely needs multiples of each the coil, switch, and led boards?

    What is the TOTAL retail cost of all the boards in R&M?

    10
    #460 1 year ago

    In regard to PROC, I think one of the overlooked aspects is that the board set has been "out in the wild" for a number of years and has done very well. Don't underestimate the importance of a rugged circuit board set that can handle the rigors of continuous use. I also like that the PROC system is widely available and reasonably priced, especially in comparison to the Stern node boards.

    While a new board set from Ben may have great features and a reduced price, it will take a few years of the board set being used in games to see if it has the longevity to withstand the rigor of everyday use. Just due to that unknown, I prefer the PROC option since it is already proven itself to hold up. I am curious what other features the new board set that Ben is making will have though.

    #461 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    makes it sound like under $400, but my understanding is that the game likely needs multiples of each the coil, switch, and led boards?
    What is the TOTAL retail cost of all the boards in R&M?

    I’d be curious to know but honestly does it really matter? Chances of you needing one board replaced is slim to none, the chance of a full set is likely never gonna happen.

    What’s plainly obvious is the PROC board set is not only more robust than Sterns nodes, likely more competent too, but a hell of a lot cheaper in the event of a replacement.

    #462 1 year ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    In regard to PROC, I think one of the overlooked aspects is that the board set has been "out in the wild" for a number of years and has done very well. Don't underestimate the importance of a rugged circuit board set that can handle the rigors of continuous use. I also like that the PROC system is widely available and reasonably priced, especially in comparison to the Stern node boards.
    While a new board set from Ben may have great features and a reduced price, it will take a few years of the board set being used in games to see if it has the longevity to withstand the rigor of everyday use. Just due to that unknown, I prefer the PROC option since it is already proven itself to hold up. I am curious what other features the new board set that Ben is making will have though.

    all very well said.

    I agree on all points.

    #463 1 year ago

    Last I checked, in Rick and Morty, there is 1 P3-ROC, 2 PD-16s, 4 SW-16s, and 5 PD-LEDs. The reason it gets expensive is that I insisted on using a crap ton of direct drive RGB LEDs. This requires extra PD-LED boards. If I would have been able to get serial LEDs working reliably enough under a playfield, I could have gotten away with 1 PD-LED.
    --Scott

    -5
    #464 1 year ago

    1 - P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    4 - SW-16 (switch input board) : $45x4 = $180
    2 - PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85x2 = $170
    5 - PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70 x 5 = $350

    so $875 in total retail board set

    thanks

    I love P-roc for all the reasons stated.

    If anyone can make a new board set at a lesser price with the stability and functionality, then it sounds like there is a market for it.

    I personally am excited to see what others may bring to market.

    21
    #465 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    1 - P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    4 - SW-16 (switch input board) : $45x4 = $180
    2 - PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85x2 = $170
    5 - PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70 x 5 = $350
    so $875 in total retail board set
    thanks
    I love P-roc for all the reasons stated.
    If anyone can make a new board set at a lesser price with the stability and functionality, then it sounds like there is a market for it.
    I personally am excited to see what others may bring to market.

    Remember.... that is retail pricing, not bulk OEM pricing.

    #466 1 year ago

    Scott must be doing lights!

    16
    #467 1 year ago

    Just wait till you add in replacements for the metal and plastic parts in your machine that might actually wear out. You'll have $20k worth of retail parts in your closet before you know it!

    One beauty of a modular system is that when the one annoying screw finally works itself out, causing a bracket to drop and short out a SW-16, you're paying $45 for a new board instead of possibly 10-20x for a new single board solution or $100+ for somebody to fix it.

    Like I said before, if you operate machines on location and want to be able to fix problems immediately, maybe get 1 of each board as a spare. At this point, you might have other machines that use our boards. So you'll have those covered as well.

    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    #468 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    1 - P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    4 - SW-16 (switch input board) : $45x4 = $180
    2 - PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85x2 = $170
    5 - PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70 x 5 = $350
    so $875 in total retail board set
    thanks
    I love P-roc for all the reasons stated.
    If anyone can make a new board set at a lesser price with the stability and functionality, then it sounds like there is a market for it.
    I personally am excited to see what others may bring to market.

    875 at retail pricing to completely replace all of the boards doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.

    How much would it be to completely replace a Spike2 boardset?

    I really don't understand what you are driving at here. Plenty of people have and will continue to try and make new board sets for pinball, but thus far P-roc is winning out due to cost and ease of use.

    #469 1 year ago

    I guess the closet competitor is the Fast boards? how are they doing in the wild?

    #470 1 year ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    875 at retail pricing to completely replace all of the boards doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.
    How much would it be to completely replace a Spike2 boardset?

    Spike 2 CPU is about a grand I think...?

    13
    #471 1 year ago

    Not sure what Hilton’s agenda is to continue poking at P-ROC. It’s probably not even the most expensive part of the game.

    You’re ignoring the years and years of development experience in the ecosystem, the highly mature frameworks that make games like ACNC, TNA and now R&M possible.

    As someone who wasted over a year on a “cheaper” solution before going to P-ROC and finally vanquishing all my board issues forever, you need to look at more than the pure dollar (and RETAIL at that) values. It’s certainly cheaper than STERN boards but I don’t hear any crying about that from you.

    On the topic of the CGC board set it seems optimized to handle emulation duties primarily vs original content. Not sure it’s even in the running.

    #472 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    As someone who wasted over a year on a “cheaper” solution before going to P-ROC and finally vanquishing all my board issues forever...

    jwilson, what "cheaper" solution were you working with? I'm planning out a homebrew pin and want to be fully informed for engineering decisions.

    -12
    #473 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Not sure what Hilton’s agenda is to continue poking at P-ROC. It’s probably not even the most expensive part of the game.
    You’re ignoring the years and years of development experience in the ecosystem, the highly mature frameworks that make games like ACNC, TNA and now R&M possible.
    As someone who wasted over a year on a “cheaper” solution before going to P-ROC and finally vanquishing all my board issues forever, you need to look at more than the pure dollar (and RETAIL at that) values. It’s certainly cheaper than STERN boards but I don’t hear any crying about that from you.
    On the topic of the CGC board set it seems optimized to handle emulation duties primarily vs original content. Not sure it’s even in the running.

    edit: I have been asked not to talk about this so deleting it.

    Apparently I ruffled some feathers with even floating the idea.

    13
    #474 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    really not attempting to poke Gerry at all. He got defensive over the idea I floated that the combination/collaboration of CGC and Spooky may mean we see another/new board set in pinball. This is just natural logic at play here for a guess of a possible positive to come out of this partnership.
    Proc is really good at what it does. They obviously have lots of vocal defenders from the developer community (as they should). They are the best solution on the market currently for what they do and offer.
    That said, I think this new adventure and collaboration on a likely A list license hoping to sell thousands instead of hundreds provides a possibility for evaluating and leveraging the skills on both teams for future improvments.
    Only time will tell, but when the design team has Ben Heck (and his affinity for something outside of what both Spooky and CGC currently use) we could see new improvements.
    I have zero clue and zero knowledge on what may or could happen.
    I am also completely fine with then staying on Proc also. Just talking ideas on what I see as net positive opportunities from this Spooky/CGC thing.

    He didn't get defensive he cleared up a bunch of misconceptions and assumptions that you were throwing out.

    You still haven't given a good reason for Spooky to move on from the P-Roc system other than some vague guess at possible improvements elsewhere.

    #475 1 year ago

    I think I love Gerry

    #476 1 year ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    I think I love Gerry

    Yeah, Gerry is awesome !

    LTG : )

    25
    #477 1 year ago

    Argue about circuit boards all you want. I'll be over here concentrating on making a satisfying mechanical game under the glass.

    #478 1 year ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    I'll be over here concentrating on making a satisfying mechanical game under the glass.

    Can't wait to see Ben Heck unleashed. What a great thing for pinball !

    LTG : )

    #479 1 year ago

    How many people will buy this game just for the heck of it?

    #480 1 year ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    How many people will buy this game just for the heck of it?

    I will buy it like a bat out of hell!

    #481 1 year ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Argue about circuit boards all you want. I'll be over here concentrating on making a satisfying mechanical game under the glass.

    Pics?

    #482 1 year ago
    Quoted from MOSFET:

    jwilson, what "cheaper" solution were you working with? I'm planning out a homebrew pin and want to be fully informed for engineering decisions.

    Open Pinball Project.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Only time will tell, but when the design team has Ben Heck (and his affinity for something outside of what both Spooky and CGC currently use) we could see new improvements.

    Not to knock Ben, but he's not actually an electrical engineer and probably shouldn't be designing control systems meant to go into thousands and thousands of machines. Meanwhile, there's a board designed by actual EEs that is installed in hundreds of machines RIGHT NOW with a proven track record, across multiple manufacturers. Why switch?

    How much design and prototyping time has been poured into this new boardset? I'm not seeing the savings.

    #483 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I will buy it like a bat out of hell!

    I think chickens are more likely than bats.

    10
    #484 1 year ago

    As for the PROC vs other board sets, honestly they should just pick what works best for them. If Ben is coding it, there is no doubt it will be his board set that will be the quickest solution for him.

    We went down the path of PROC vs something else, and we picked something else first. While the cost savings to the BOM looked great for us when looking at the retail pricing and low quantities, that pretty much evaporates at higher quantities.

    I can say that the boardset costs for Kingpin are quite a bit lower than we expected when looking at quantity pricing (believe me, looking at retail pricing scares the shit out you at first), and that coupled with the documentation, multiple frameworks/tools available, and support from their dev community all saved us a**loads of time.

    For us, PROC was the right choice, but I fully understand that for others it may not be.

    Paul

    #485 1 year ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Argue about circuit boards all you want. I'll be over here concentrating on making a satisfying mechanical game under the glass.

    Sounds like Ben is making am EM

    12
    #486 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Open Pinball Project.

    Not to knock Ben, but he's not actually an electrical engineer

    If Ben was the designer of the board set then this would be a valid concern but your just sprouting #Fakenews

    Pinheck was designed by me.

    #487 1 year ago

    Yay P-Roc systems. Love building games with those board sets.

    #488 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Open Pinball Project.

    Not to knock Ben, but he's not actually an electrical engineer and probably shouldn't be designing control systems

    Not crapping on qualified degree engineers or LonghornEngineer or gstellenberg, but just having a degree certificate / education does not equal being a great engineer. Passion, experimentation and thinking outside the box (text book) are also important components in being a great engineer / creator - keep up the great work Ben & Gerry and others in this space.

    #489 1 year ago

    Hey benheck, there has been a variety of speculation in this post about what the game could be. Can you give us a little hint and tell us from the list below one of our guesses that is completely wrong? That would be cool!

    Evil Dead
    Army of Darkness
    Rocky Horror Picture Show
    Fight Club
    Meat Loaf
    Jaws
    5th Element
    Big Trouble in Little China
    Predator
    Scooby Doo

    #491 1 year ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    Hey benheck, there has been a variety of speculation in this post about what the game could be. Can you give us a little hint and tell us from the list below one of our guesses that is completely wrong? That would be cool!
    Evil Dead
    Army of Darkness
    Rocky Horror Picture Show
    Fight Club
    Meat Loaf
    Jaws
    5th Element
    Big Trouble in Little China
    Predator
    Scooby Doo

    Ok, who thinks any of the above list are AAA titles? I don’t put any of these in a triple A marketing space. Basically, if you walk down the toy isles of Walmart, how many toys from these properties are on the shelf? Maybe Predator... possibly Scooby Doo, but doubtful. I would not put up any of these titles as a good pinball theme if sales of machines to the mainstream masses are your goal. Boutique level interest may be there, but mainstream properties, these are not, IMHO.

    #492 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Basically, if you walk down the toy isles of Walmart, how many toys from these properties are on the shelf?

    Hmmm... If only there was a theme with a rabid fan base and Walmart carried a shit tonn of their toys...

    #493 1 year ago
    Quoted from Friengineer:

    Hmmm... If only there was a theme with a rabid fan base and Walmart carried a shit tonn of their toys...

    Do not say LEGO.... and Stern pooched the Star Wars property already...

    #494 1 year ago
    Quoted from Friengineer:

    Hmmm... If only there was a theme with a rabid fan base and Walmart carried a shit tonn of their toys...

    NRA? Big Buck Hunter Pinball 2?

    #495 1 year ago
    Quoted from LonghornEngineer:

    Pinheck was designed by me.

    I stand corrected. How many revisions is it up to now, eight?

    -1
    #496 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Ok, who thinks any of the above list are AAA titles? I don’t put any of these in a triple A marketing space. Basically, if you walk down the toy isles of Walmart, how many toys from these properties are on the shelf? Maybe Predator... possibly Scooby Doo, but doubtful. I would not put up any of these titles as a good pinball theme if sales of machines to the mainstream masses are your goal. Boutique level interest may be there, but mainstream properties, these are not, IMHO.

    You are missing the point. That list is not about what is or is not a good theme, it is to see if we can get a clue of what the game could be. Process of elimination and everything. Now, let's be quiet on this front and see if Ben will grace us with a clue

    #497 1 year ago

    I think he already alluded that it was NOT Evil Dead. But he didn't rule out Army of Darkness

    #498 1 year ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Argue about circuit boards all you want. I'll be over here concentrating on making a satisfying mechanical game under the glass.

    Will you invite Kaneda to play your mechanical marvel first when it’s completed?

    #499 1 year ago

    A pinball machine is only as good as the circuit boards that control the mechs

    #500 1 year ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Will you invite Kaneda to play your mechanical marvel first when it’s completed?

    Kaneda TWIPY Madness mode.

    There are 638 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 13.

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