Agreed. I keep meticulous records of what I spend on my pins, and my costs for TNA were ~ $6800, including shaker motor and knocker (+ shipping from pinball life and installation cost), mirror blades and install cost, plastic protector set, speaker grill lights, and shipping from distro.

Throw in green plastic upgrades (+$39), clear drop targets and additional leds (not sure, figure +$20), new counter display with led (+$20), powder coating (+$400 ballpark), that's getting to ~ $7300. Add in inflation of 20% (+$1400) for materials and labor, and you're right around $9k.

-$500/$1000 for IP/License
-$500/$1000 RD
-$1000 Distributers
=6k/7k.

7.5k would be the magic number.

3min in and "No(t) a good take so far".

The dude is a muckraker, why promote that here? I agree that I think this is a high price, and I think most of us know the FOMO model has worked well for them, but the rest is...whatever.

It only felt fair to listen to the entire thing to see if there were any valid points. Seems predominately concerned about distributors, using pinball machines as investments, and perceived value vs titles with licenses from legacy work and or lots of ali-express bolted on the playfield.

This guy has the overnight AM radio flow, but for pinball. Probably a nice listen for people who can't get enough Prison Planet forum time.

I wonder if the Danesi lock targets are improved. Had a lot of hang ups with mine from metal tabs bending in back.
Still having issues with 2 balls stuck behind the front drop target.
Love the game other than that.

This was my first time actually listening to him. I was expecting something laughable based on what everyone says but everything he said were great points and worth hearing. His point around the half way mark about comparing TNA to Godzilla was a stinger. TNA is my favorite game. Coming to terms with this price tag is a major bummer.

Would have bought but since they cut out distributors on this one, I’m out.

As a buyer of five Spooky games NIB starting with AMH, every release it’s getting alittle harder each time to be a Spooky fan. TnA is a great game, I just don’t really feel like giving Spooky anymore of my money.

Don't care about the cutting distros. It's 250 games. Least of any of the concerns. Would you hold the same attitude buying anything else from a distro vs direct? Most likely not. It's an outdated supply chain middle man. Unless you are an operator, most people don't need distros.

Having had issues with Spooky games in the past, I stand by that statement.

I had 2 whole days of a distributor, and one of his close friends who is a tech, talk me through replacing every board in a game to get it working brand new out of box. They now cut out these amazing people after sucking up the Halloween Ultraman fiasco? There are zero development costs in this game and then to just cut them out wow! Greed is a funny thing in bussinss....it eventually bites you in the ass!

My experience has been completely different. Any issues I've had I've worked directly with the manufacturer and they took care of me. Granted, I haven't bought a NiB Stern or JJP so maybe there's a difference there, but I had no issues working with Spooky, CGC, or PB for that matter. But my experience with some distros has been less than stellar. In the long run if the manufacturer isn't going to make things right, even with a distro (as we've seen with many JJP instances) it rarely is going to happen.

Point is though, the whole distro thing as a 'boycott' is...<edited as everyone is entitled to their opinion> strange to be frank. That's nothing to be mad over as a consumer. The non-refundable deposit? That's something to be mad about. OMG they missed 250 games...the world is ending. You see what I'm getting at here?

lol, it was the first time I had heard him too and he wasn’t as bad as I expected so this was probably a good marketing decision on his part as well. The game comparisons are tough, I was already going through that in my head as well since there are a few other games I’ve got my eye on and I was probably hoping as he mentioned that this would be more of a limited edition with something special (cabinet, topper, etc.). I’m not sure I get all the outrage on behalf of the distributor’s. I’m sure they’ll let spooky know if they feel wronged. I’m pretty loyal to my distributor (not a spooky dealer though I bought a NIB Halloween from him) but I’ll still buy stuff from pinside etc. I think he just views it as stuff he’ll eventually make money on in trade .

I'm not going to argue with the price of the game because pinball is expensive to make, stuff costs more now than it did then, and Spooky has more overhead than last time.

But what I don't get is why non-refundable deposits on preorders are necessary anymore?

They made sense when people were heavily customizing their games. They made some sense when people got to pick which trim.

But these TNAs are all the exact same. Nothing is going to change in terms of ordering parts. Make them and then put them up for sale when they're ready to be sold.

I can see an argument for securing places in line. But why make the deposit non-refundable? The same thing is going to be built regardless... And why $2,000? Spooky should go to a bank to fund buying parts, not their customers.

I love TNA and was excited for the rerun but 9K is way too much.

Wouldn't that increase the price of the games even more, which seems to already be a sticking point?

I can't begin to imagine what they're gonna charge for the next game then 12 to $15000?

TNA vs Godzilla
Lol. No contest

Well, if you ever have a problem with Stern games, good luck getting support without your distributor playing middle man. I'm glad I have that safety net.

To clarfiy, he was pro distro. I mentioned later I had not dealt with Stern/JJP so can't speak to those.

Yeah but $2k barely pays for playfield and its elements. So they’re already borrowing money to build them before final payment. (Or they don’t need to externally borrow money at all…)

But its mostly the non-refundable or transferable nature I don’t like. Just impose a penalty fee to transfer. Like $100 since it’s mostly about paying someone to change some shipment details. There’s not the same headache of yesteryear of trying to find someone who wants a specific trim built to custom specs. $2k seems like a huge penalty if you suddenly can’t buy the game, especially considering the game will likely still get built and sold to someone else.

I just want to make sure this is clear. The initial payment can still be transferred to a new buyer, it's just not possible to transfer the initial payment from one game to another game...no change from our prior policy.

It says it is non transferable to another game, not another person. I don't like pre-payments in general, but I'm not convinced it is much worse than balance due on shipping for a manufacturer that is producing on a reasonable timeline.

Still think should be a fee to transfer like jjp did. Less flippers this way!
Hopefully there are no flippers at 9k I’m not paying more.

I do understand that point. Ideally, we do want our games in the hands of those that want the game.

wow, cut out distributors. raise the price 3k, and make you send them $45 to $95 to join a fanclub to even have a chance at buying a pin??? Shame on Spooky.

OTOH, I appreciate them charging a price that captures enough value to (maybe) make it not worth flipping. The deposit helps too.

I'd take the new TNA.

All day, every day. Godzilla doesn't do anything for me. Rather have an Iron Maiden.

You can have an Iron Maiden for less than a TNA with more on it. TNA should not be priced over a Stern Pro.

$7.5K is the number I’m willing to pay, and honestly I’d rather have a stripped-down model without any upgrades. They can send the armor/trim and legs in bare metal for all I care. All I want is the game NIB. TNA is my dream theme. It’s really the only other game I feel like I ‘need’ in my very small collection. It’s an awesome game, and maybe I’m just being a cheapskate but I can’t justify the purchase at 9.

Complaint rescinded!

Now let’s just talk about how you have to pay for a membership for the right to preorder a game….

This is like selling rooms in my hotels and then saying sorry no refunds or moving to a different date, but you can sell to some other person that wants to stay in the hotel! Go cancel your next room at a meeting and lets see how you react when they tell you sorry find a buyer for that said room!
Sorry but your arguments in the business world do not make a bit of sense!

Because you’re selling time utilizing a facility. Someone cancels an order, they still have a product they can sell to someone else.

This may work if everyone stays in 100% all the time but guess what the next time a Hotel tells you "tough beans you either sell it to someone else or you loose your deposit, I guarantee you won't be going to that hotel again will you! Now convert that to your company...get it?

No different than cancelling 24 hrs before you stay in a hotel. You do the math on probability of selling said room. duh
This is bad business practice and by talking to others in this hobby and reading remarks here, the business minded are not gonna put up with this crap and they are loosing customers 100%

Not really sure what you're talking about, there are plenty of hotels&rates you can't cancel or change the dates for?

I stayed at a boutique hotel in the Florida keys….there was no cancellation or refund if needing to cancel. They said they were just too small to absorb costs like that. Guess there’s variety in lots of different businesses. I guess, if you don’t like it, there are other options.

I will be interested to hear from the Distributers on this one. Usually Joe of Pinballstar or ZMeny jump in.

Probably throwing darts at the TNA waitlist they had made.

So you want Distributors to Hoover up 250 TNA, and leave the Loyal Fang Club members twisting in the wind ??
Your a Genius.

It's only 250 !

I have to agree with this. After all, Spooky has said there may be more. Prove there is a demand and I’m sure the supply will open up. If you don’t want to be part of the Fang Club, or don’t get a machine but wanted one, tell your distro to let Spooky know that there is interest.

I am talking about exactly what you are saying, by doing this they are loosing customers 100%. I do not do this and I am booked almost 100% year round. This is bad business practice and it will eventually bite them in the arse ! I know its biting Spooky in the arse

What if you wanted to cancel or had to cancel? Your thinking may be very different after this experience! Anyway why argue its bad business if you think otherwise well then good for you and you wont be running any of my business'

TNA has a more expensive BOM than a Stern Pro.

Everyone is entitled to run their business how they want to…after all, it’s theirs. Some may be successful, even if others think it’s bad business practices. And if the business isn’t doing well, a good owner looks at how to change it to be successful. As far as I can see, Spooky seems to be killing it…but that doesn’t mean they will always have the same business model. Again, it’s their business and they will do what they feel best. If you disagree with it, that’s fine…I’m sure they don’t want you running their pinball company and you wouldn’t want them running your hotels.

Off topic: Do you offer a Pinsider discount and do your hotels have a gameroom with pins?

Bill, with all due respect, there is an entire industry built around the notion that hotels, resorts, and vacation rentals often have non-refundable deposits. It’s called travel insurance.

Agreed and they are still loosing business and good will is draining with the pinball community I am involved with both in Canada and USA. I'm not arguing they can't do what they want I just think it's bad business and pigs get slaughtered. Carry on

So my guess is the next Spooky “Cornerstone” game is gonna skip the standard model.

Well now here’s a way to turn the attention away from toy story 4

How long until Charlie parachutes into one of the threads with a message.