(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad and other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel talk *

By InfiniteLives

1 year ago

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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 202 votes
    • decent, better than the prequels 231 votes
    • really good, on par with the originals 75 votes
    • great! one of the best 71 votes
    • who cares, star wars sucks 41 votes

    (620 votes)

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    Topic index (key posts)

    3 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #2827 Analysis worth watching. Posted by gdonovan (11 months ago)

    Post #3520 Path to get Disney + discounted. Thanks @fosaisu Posted by fosaisu (3 months ago)

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    #197 1 year ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    But honestly what franchise with sequels do people actually like? I don't think they could ever make a movie that original fans would like.

    I went into Bladerunner 2049 expecting to hate it as a pointless, unneeded sequel and left thinking they absolutely crushed it. It can be done.

    The problem with these sequels and TLJ in particular is that Disney seems to think they need to rewrite the rules that have been laid down for the SW galaxy of the course of 7 films (counting R1). If TLJ had been half as concerned with telling a coherent story as it was with upending SW tropes the would have knocked it out of the park. Instead we get stuff like floating space Leia and Rey, who is able to add whatever untrained Force power at will to advance the plot. New characters to bring in new fans is fine...but there are rules laid down in the galaxy far, far away. Ignore them and feel our nerd wrath.

    Side note...just because you're introducing new characters doesn't mean the old ones need to be brought back just to be killed off.

    #199 1 year ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    2) You can survive in open space for several minutes. In fact you would die of suffocation before you would die from freezing.

    Where on earth did you get that idea? Try about 15 seconds.


    #224 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Yup that was noticed too.
    Here is a hilarious video done by Star Wars fans, well worth the 58 minute watch and far more entertaining than the movie they are reviewing.
    » YouTube video

    I just came here to post that. These guys are the heroes we deserve.

    #300 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    That's a good point and something I need to remember. What Luke did is the most powerful exhibit of "the force" in any of the film's.

    You mean aside from when Kylo did the exact same thing to visit Rey when he got tired of Force texting?

    #306 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    The ship they were chasing had massive shields they couldn't penetrate - being in front or behind didn't matter so they followed them until they ran out of fuel.

    Except a flight of three fighters blew the shit out of the bridge, but then they couldn't press the attack with their undoubtedly massive numbers of fighter squadrons because they were too far away to cover them


    #484 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Why is everyone freaking out about tracking a ship through hyperspace? Forget Rogue One, Vader and Tarkin did it in STAR WARS for gods sake, following the Millenium Falcon when it escaped the Death Star.

    The attached a tracking device to the Falcon, like Obi Wan did to Jango Fett's ship. That's different...the First Order can now track the jump itself. They did work a reference to the project into Rogue One, so while it's something we haven't seen before, they did subtly set it up.

    Why so many fans (nerds?) have a problem with the movie: Yes, it's fun... but way too much of it just makes no sense to anyone who's been paying attention. I get Rian Johnson wanted to break conventions and open the franchise up...but if you fly in the face of 40 years of precedent, there's going to be kickback. The low RT user scores aren't because of bots, or angry patriarchal white guys pissed about minority women in positions of power, or that their fan theories didn't pan out. That's the lazy Sony/Ghostbusters defense. It's that Lucasfilm/Disney has made a crap ton of money encouraging fans to delve more deeply into the universe and its conventions, and the Johnson blissfully ignores whichever conventions he wants to tell the story. If you're going to reboot, do a full reboot and be done with it.

    Here's a great bit on some of the problems:


    #488 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    How are they tracking in TLJ?

    With the giant MacGuffin device aboard Snoke's flagship, which causes Finn and Rose to take the torturously long trip to the casino planet, to find a code breaker, who they could bring back to the low speed chase, to sneak aboard Snoke's flagship, to disable the MacGuffin.


    #561 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    The “only two” thing was introduced in TPM. The same movie where one of the coolest villains of all time - Darth Maul - was introduced and killed off without a backstory, in the same movie.

    I've seen the same point made about the lack of background on the Emperor in the original films as well, as a defense of the complete lack of info on Snoke.

    Completely different situations though. In both A New Hope and Phantom Menace, the audience is simply dropped into an existing story. We get a little exposition (done quite well in IV, not so well in I) and we're off and running. We don't need to know any more about the Emperor or Maul because in those movies they're simply plot devices.

    In VII though, the audience is rejoining a story where we know the good guys won. The Empire was defeated, whether you want to consider it with the loss of Death Star II and the Emperor at Endor or with most of the remaining Imperial forces later at Jakku. Then, when we rejoin, not only is the Empire/First Order somehow back, but they have a new Big Bad who is seemingly just as powerful as Palpatine who has engineered their resurgence. Good storytelling requires some kind of explanation. I understand that as of VIII Snoke is just a plot device to get Kylo Ren in the driver's (no pun intended) seat, but when the home team just won the Superbowl, we really need an on-screen explanation of how they ended up 2-14 the next season, and where the arch enemy team picked up an all-pro rookie.

    #584 1 year ago

    FB_IMG_1513962172418 (resized).jpg

    #614 1 year ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    Han Solo had NO redeeming qualities untill he met Luke and Obiwan. Even then he wasn't a decent human being until the end of ANH. So basically Disney decided to make a stand alone movie about an asshole pirate gambler...OK?

    I've read the original directors were let go after the original cut was going too hard toward the humor aspect...Marvel syndrome. We'll see if Opie managed to clean it up.

    Still...one has to wonder why Disney and TLJ have gone to such lengths to hit reset and nuke everything so they can move forward, when they're making stand-alones that wallow firmly in the past. "Let's kill off Solo and then make a movie about Solo. With a new Millenial-friendly young cast."

    The mind boggles.

    #757 1 year ago
    Quoted from acedanger:

    This is what I don't understand. When you create a trilogy don't you write the script for all three at once. Then afterwards break them up in a way that makes sense for the individual parts? If that's not the case then you're really cornered creatively trying to follow somebody else's story/plot arch

    They're on record as saying there wasn't a big, bulletin board plot outline for this trilogy...they're literally making it up as they go.

    This was a trilogy to restart the money making machine, not to tell a story someone had had in their head for years. Sketchy as they were, at least the prequels gave us that.

    #761 1 year ago

    We all knew there were more movies coming...Disney doesn't drop $4 billion for no reason.

    I was excited when heard they were going to do VII, VIII, and IX as a continuation with the old characters. Then we found out their inclusion was simply a cynical way to get 40- and 50-somethings back in the theater. What surprises and bothers me the most is the contempt Disney has shown towards the old characters and the old fans once they got us there.

    The gruff pirate who woos the princess? Sorry, didn't work out. Stuff happens. Oh, and his kid kills him, and he falls down a pit. The starry-eyed farm boy who grows into a mature, powerful Jedi and brings the second most evil guy in the galaxy back to the light, ridding the galaxy of tyranny? Yeah, sorry...that didn't work so well either. He ran away and hid. And oh yeah...we killed him too. His classic lightsaber he got from his old man via his mentor that we took the trouble to bring back? Broken in half. Yo boy Ackbar, who is completely insignificant but is for some reason a fan favorite? We brought him back for you! Psych! He's dead now too, zero fanfare. At this point I completely expect Chewbacca to get blown up in the Falcon with R2 and Threepio aboard, just to finish wiping the slate clean with a giant "Eff you."

    It's been a positively spiteful treatment of the old characters. Unexpected? Sure, and I guess some view that as a positive. It would also have been unexpected if Leia left politics to sell Tupperware, or if Hux and the First Order burst into a Bollywood song-and-dance. Unexpected doesn't necessarily mean good story telling.

    Disney probably should have just launched into stand-alones. Rogue One was well received. They also could have launched directly into a completely fresh trilogy like Rian Johnson is doing next. Even if that were to disappoint, there'd be far less kickback from fans. As it is, they've given us the worst of both worlds...brought the old characters back, and then treated them like shit to make way for the new.

    Kylo Ren says "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to." The problem is, we didn't have to.

    1 week later
    #1174 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I thought the plan was always for JJ Lens Flash to come back and direct Ep. 9, and then RJ to write and direct all three of the following trilogy.

    Actually it was originally going to be Colin Trevorrow, but he was sacked and replaced by JJ. No doubt Colin displayed signs of directorial backbone to Kennedy.

    1 week later
    #1328 1 year ago

    Wouldn't have dreamed this a couple of months ago...

    "After cleaning up during 2017’s holiday season, [Jumanji]—not ‘Star Wars’—is now crushing it in January"


    2 weeks later
    #1385 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Check this guy out- He gets the voice and mannerisms perfect
    » YouTube video

    It's his casting in Age of Adeline that makes you wonder what could have been.

    #1428 1 year ago

    Not that I don't have my doubts about the veracity of this guy, the article says he's a former employee.

    1 month later
    #1521 1 year ago

    The book was not great literature by any stretch, but it was a fun read and that's what's important.

    The trailers' prominent car race, the attractive leads, and the obvious impossibility of getting everything licensed has me pretty skeptical about the movie.

    2 weeks later
    #1659 1 year ago

    Rogue One at least meets the Hippocratic oath of "Do no harm."

    TLJ is a giant "fuck you" to Star Wars in general.

    1 month later
    #1997 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    That’s the number I read: 700-800M to break even. They’ll get it in merchandising and disc sales for sure, but man I hope they get the message.

    Our sad Toys R Us is pretty much picked over, but the Star Wars section looks fully stocked, even at 50% off. I don't think this stuff has been moving well for the past several films.

    1 month later
    #2268 1 year ago
    Quoted from okayestpinballer:

    Does anybody really think the 3 current movies would have been drastically better if Lucas had made them?
    I don't remeber the prequels being all that great...

    Even if you consider them to be the worst movies ever made, at least the prequels didn't shit all over the original trilogy. The new movies have rendered the originals completely irrelevant.

    Han, the cynical mercenary loner who becomes a team player, asset to the rebellion, and gets the princess? Nope. His marriage failed, he was failure as a father, and he's returned to being a past-his-prime smuggler who "has no one left to swindle." Then his kid kills him.

    Leia, the steadfast warrior diplomat, who stood alone against Vader and Tarkin and led the rebellion to victory and re-established the Rebublic? Nope. Her marriage failed, her son is evil, and her new Republic was so weak that it completely falls in the space of a week or so to the First Order, which was born of the shattered remnants of the Empire but which is somehow even more powerful, despite the fact the the Empire literally was the entire Republic.

    Luke, orphaned farmboy who through trials and tribulations rises to redeem his father, see the destruction of the Emperor, and is set to restore a new generation of Jedi as guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy? Nope. His new Jedi order was weak, he was a poor teacher, and now he's a bitter old recluse. Then he dies from using too much Force, or something. The Empire that he and others gave so much to defeat is inexplicably back and more powerful than ever.

    Seriously...fuck these movies. Never mind that the numbered episodes are supposed to be Skywalker movies, never mind that the two movie arc is thus far a noncohesive mess, and never mind the odd pacing and narrative lapses of TLJ. Fuck these movies for intentionally taking a steaming dump on the movies that started it all.

    #2271 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    nor is Vader his father. Further proof of this is in the New Hope deleted scenes where there is one shot in the hanger where a character states he met Luke's father and Luke will do alright.

    The galaxy at large only knows that Anakin, hero of the Republic and amazing pilot, disappeared and was probably killed. No one but Yoda, Kenobi, Palpatine, and Owen and Beru knew the truth.

    It was also always apparent Kenobi wasn't telling Luke the whole truth about Anakin. He hesitated and looked away briefly before the "betrayed and murdered your father" even as a kid it was obvious there was more there.

    Splinter of the Mind's Eye was just a backup plan.

    #2272 1 year ago
    Quoted from JWJr:


    A clumsy way of explaining different levels of Force sensitivity, and certainly no one's favorite plot point.

    Still doesn't even approach the level of character assassination from the new films.

    #2274 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    He was a Jedi, who took no partners nor had children.
    The exchange was in a very offhand "hey I know you dad, we both worked in the steel mill" kind of way.


    But Luke knew he was the son of Anakin Skywalker at this point, and I'm sure it would have come up in conversation with a squadron leader before they just threw a farm boy into a fighter for a major attack. The only one who had ever heard the "spice freighter" story was Luke. Kenobi even tells him that Owen made that story up.

    That brief exchange makes perfect sense in that context.

    #2276 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    With a rag tag group of rebels facing a death star you think they are going to be picky about who is willing to get in a fighter?
    They are all dead men walking if the station wasn't stopped.

    You think they aren't going to use one of the dozens of mechanics or support staff before some rando that just walked in the door, unless he has some compelling resume?

    1 week later
    #2317 1 year ago

    Now if they can just get Denis Lawson to come back so they can kill off Wedge, the slate will be just about wiped clean.

    [edit] Never mind... he already told them to get bent.


    1 month later
    #2410 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Does Stark have intel on the Dark Lord? Attack with ranged weapons out of saber and force choke range.

    Didn't work so well for Solo in Cloud City...

    #2436 1 year ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    Just something I find kind of interesting...
    Multipliers are historically an industry metric of a movie's performance. Total domestic box office revenues divided by domestic opening weekend. A multiplier of 3 is considered ok. A multiplier of 4 is considered very good for a big budget blockbuster. The higher numbers indicate a movie that is sustaining itself with positive word of mouth and positive fan experience. People are going back to see it again, telling their friends to go see it.

    I'm not sure that's a fair metric in the age of 20 screen megaplexes. I'd be interested to see the number of screens in 2018 versus 1977.

    I'd imagine most modern films are much more front loaded because they have such wide release. We no longer have to wait a few weeks for the local bijou to pick up a movie we want to see.

    #2477 1 year ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    Bingo. The new Star Wars could have been about the rebuilding of the Republic. The rebels could struggle with the issues of empire, and corrupting influences of power.

    This is the problem with turning your simple pulp serial movies into a multimedia empire.

    I'm sure these issues will be covered... in books, comics, video games, TV series, and stand alone films. Unfortunately, that doesn't help the absolute, complete dissonance from RotJ to TFA. The movies no longer tell the story on their own. I honestly think they're leaving intentional gaps to fill in with other media. Sadly, it's no longer simply entertaining supplemental material... they're making it more and more essential to make sense of the story. It's just so cynical.

    As for the guy who likes Rey's character development, well... it's hard to take anything else seriously after that. The character has none. She's a junk scavenger, and then she's a jedi. All on her own. It's like Luke dueling and beating Vader at the end of ANH, without even meetng Obi-wan.

    #2503 1 year ago
    Quoted from John1210:

    It was set up after set up with no payoffs.

    That's "subverting expectations" dawg. Apparently it's all the rage and to be commended.

    Who knew.

    3 weeks later
    #2562 1 year ago

    Yeah, from that article they still don't get it.

    It's amazing that the company responsible for several successful MCU movies every year is still trying to claim "Star Wars fatigue" is the problem.

    1 month later
    #2658 1 year ago

    We can have different views, but even Hamill has said Luke was botched.

    "“I said to Rian, ‘Jedis don’t give up.’ I mean, even if [Luke] had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup, but if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference.

    But it’s not my story anymore, it’s somebody else’s story and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry.”

    “Well, in this version…see, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars, this is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s ‘Jake Skywalker,’ he’s not my Luke Skywalker. But I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well. Listen, I still haven’t accepted it completely, but, it’s only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset. I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man they needed for this job.”

    In other words, this is a shitty take on my character, but I have to toe the company line.

    #2670 1 year ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Agreed - this is the biggest inconsistency of them all. I can potentially see Luke going hermit - I mean, ALL the other Jedi Masters, once great heroic warriors, ended up doing the exact same thing. Why not him? I don't see that as inconsistent at all.

    Except the takeaway from the six Lucas movies, the whole point to the arc, was that Luke succeeded where the others failed, and Anakin was redeemed, the Emperor vanquished. That's the story.

    The new movies take the entire point of those films, wad it up, set it on fire, and then piss all over the fire. They've rendered the old movies absolutely meaningless.

    2 weeks later
    #2686 1 year ago

    Lego sets aside, this is our Walmart's entire Star Wars section, with Christmas a month away. Let that sink in.

    20181125_140450 (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #2780 1 year ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Marvel isn't stupid. They know their brand. They have smart passionate comic fans in charge at the top, wide variety of talented directors, and a huge cast of great actors. They they've been putting out quality films for over a decade. I don't see why CM will be any different.
    Lucasfilm on the other hand? Not so much. Idiot executives pushing person agendas, bad writers, dumb egotistical directors, downright bad casting. It all starts at the top.

    I don't know...the whole Her/Hero nonsense suggests they can't simply rely on a strong female character being a strong character. They have to bludgeon us over the head with it Lucasfilm style.

    2 months later
    #2936 9 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Apparently I’m going to have to look that up.

    No one is opposed to strong female characters, and we've had them for years...including our own beloved Leia. But an SJW takes a worthy cause, and drags it completely over the top.

    Poe was misguided, and Holdo had to set him straight.
    Luke was misguided, and Rey had to set him straight.
    Finn was misguided, and Rose had to set him straight.

    It isn't enough to have strong female characters...we also have to illustrate how incompetent the male characters are. See also: Chris Hemsworth's moronic character in Ghostbusters 2016.

    That's SJW as it relates to Star Wars. Sacrificing the story to advance the cause.

    1 week later
    #2977 9 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    So I feel like everyone in this forum is going to see the next movie, whether its in the theater or at home, we are all going to watch it and more than likely be really disappointed, slight chance of being happy about it.

    Don't count on it. I haven't bothered watching TLJ again or Solo at all, despite them staring me in the eye every time I log into Netflix.

    I'm pretty sure I'll be content to read a synopsis on IX.

    #2979 9 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    Anything you hope to read about that happens?


    After Last Jedi, I honestly don't care want happens next. I don't care about any of the characters that are left. Whatever morbid curiosity I might've had was killed off by bungling the plotline of the trilogy so badly. There's literally nothing that I'm looking forward to IX answering.

    3 weeks later
    #3135 8 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    ...or Ant Man.

    You shut your dirty mouth.

    3 weeks later
    #3175 8 months ago

    I see Rey still holds her saber like she wants to have her own arm cut off...

    #3181 8 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Also tell me who is not going to watch episode 9. You may watch it because you love it or hate it but it’s going to be watched by everyone here on this thread. Imo.

    I still haven't watched Solo even though Netflix prompts me to do so every time I log in. I'll read the synopsis for this one but no, I probably won't bother seeing it unless it's far better than I can imagine it being.

    #3202 8 months ago

    Star Wars Episode IX: Back to the Well

    So apparently we'll finish killing off the old guard with Leia and Lando, and also finish rendering the OT completely meaningless by bringing back Palpatine.

    Oh, and Death Star. Again. Because why the hell not.

    #3208 8 months ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    So far he's ruined 2 franchises for me, the only thing left to do for a perfect trifecta is to helm Indiana Jones next.

    Indiana Jones pretty much took care of that itself.

    3 weeks later
    #3317 7 months ago

    The problem with the Bond example is that there were multiple Bonds virtually right away. Within 11 years he was played by Connery, Niven, Lazenby, and Moore. We EXPECT different Bonds.

    Ford has been Jones and Solo for decades. It makes new casting a little tougher pill to swallow.

    1 month later
    #3368 5 months ago

    Hey, remember when Luke succeeded where his father failed, ultimately redeeming Anakin, defeating the Emperor, and restoring peace to the galaxy? Disney doesn't.

    Apparently they're just going to retcon anyone from the original trilogy as a complete, abject failure.


    3 months later
    #3616 68 days ago

    How can Rey become the spiritual heir to the Jedi? We kept coming back to ‘Who is Rey?’, and how can we give the most satisfying answer to that not only factually – because obviously people are interested in whether there's more to be learned of Rey's story – but more importantly who is she as a character?

    Are these not the kind of things that you'd normally have ironed out before filming the first scene of the first movie in your new trilogy?

    3 weeks later
    3 weeks later
    #3785 19 days ago

    "Director JJ Abrams echoed Iger's comments in a recent interview himself, as he also confirmed that the concluding chapter of the Skywalker saga would not set-up any future storylines that could directly lead into another potential Star Wars trilogy."

    Um, yeah. Neither did Return of the Jedi, yet here we are.

    #3812 16 days ago
    Quoted from Hobbypinball:

    I didn't hate TLJ - but didn't make much sense. Last time we saw luke the future was bright. Next time he's drinking green milk as a hermit. The problem and point being - they didn't take us along on that journey/story. And flash backs aren't gonna cut it. And the reason I have very little respect for Disney was that they wanted to cash in on the original trilogy

    That's a huge problem with the sequel trilogy.

    I've always felt the prequels existed because Lucas had more story to tell. Not everyone liked the story, and the execution might have been lacking, but it was more story he wanted to tell.

    The sequels exist solely because there was more money to be made, not more story to tell. It's been made up from film to film with no heart, no soul, and no coherence.

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