(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel

By InfiniteLives

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 days ago by gdonovan
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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 243 votes
      34%
    • decent, better than the prequels 251 votes
      35%
    • really good, on par with the originals 80 votes
      11%
    • great! one of the best 80 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 55 votes
      8%

    (709 votes)

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    Post #2827 Analysis worth watching. Posted by gdonovan (5 years ago)

    Post #3520 Path to get Disney + discounted. Thanks @fosaisu Posted by fosaisu (4 years ago)


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    #825 6 years ago
    Quoted from judremy:

    My biggest problems with the movie:
    1) How do bombs "fall" in space where there is no gravity?

    There would be gravity because the large starships would create a gravitational pull on the tiny bombs being dropped at such close distance.

    #1026 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I didn’t much care for Rogue One myself, but Vader wreaking havoc on Leia’s ship in the last five minutes was worth the price of admission.

    Not sure if anyone here reads the books, but if you are a Vader fan, then you should read (or get the audiobook) of Lords of the Sith. Vader is portrayed in that book as mythic. His powers unbelievable. Chokes pilots during combat etc.. It also expands on his relationship with the Palpatine. A must read.

    -9
    #1066 6 years ago
    Quoted from mittens:

    Here are my kicks to an already dead horse.
    Yes as many others have stated, the Leia floating back was the absolute worst thing they could have done (reminded me of Mary Poppins). It would have been a perfect time to write her out. I think this was the lowest part of the film. Also, why kill off Ackbar?!
    The casino planet scene was sh?t. I don't know what else to say there.
    It was a bit of a let down for me and I'd give it a 6/10.

    I thaught the scene with Leia pulling herself back to the ship with the force was great. Yes It may have been awkwardly filmed, but I overlooked that. It was a good display of her power with the force. After 30 years of learning to tap into her force power, I think that pulling herself back to the ship would be the least she could do. Force users can push and pull things with the force. This is nothing new. So I don't get the hate with that scene from people. Is it the way it was filmed, or the act of pulling her way back to the ship?

    #1093 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Because she isn't a "force user."
    But more than anything it was SO badly done; Just looked so horrible.

    Wrong. It was established in Return of the Jedi that Leia is strong with the force. Yoda referred to her as another hope. Luke also said that she would eventually learn to use the force as he did. So therefore is it reasonable to assume that over 30 years, she leaned how to use the force to move objects (including herself in the fashion Shen did). She is therefore by definition a force user.

    #1107 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    It’s not that she is strong in the force...it’s because she’s blown into f@&$ing space without any spacesuit and isn’t dead. She doesn’t implode or freeze to death, but instead wakes up and superwoman’s herself to safety. It’s truly a facepalm moment.
    Oh: and Admiral Ackbar is unceremoniously killed and forgotten. WTF???

    Fair enough. I agree that the Admiral Ackbar being killed and forgotten was a misstep.

    #1114 6 years ago

    I have to admit, this is the one Star Wars movie that I have no intention to watch again any time soon. I can watch these movies over and over, but sadly not this one.

    I can forgive some of the plot holes, I don't see what all the fuss is about with the Leia "Mary Poppins" scene, or the complaints with the bombs dropping in space, or the pacing issues etc...none of that is an issue for me. However, I absolutely can't forgive Disney, Lucasfilm and Rian Johnson for ripping the heart and soul out of the character of Luke Skywalker.

    What an utter shame the way they treated him, and thus the way they treated the fans. I waited most of my life to find out how great he would become with the force. I was hoping he would be more powerful than his father, Obiwan or Yoda. I was hoping he would unleash hell on Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren and the First Order. And what Did they give us...a sad, lonely man, who milks Alien teat while sulking about the past, and who never even uses the force until the very end, and that effort kills him. Shame, shame, shame on them.

    All of the other complaints pale in comparison to the real reason I, and a lot of people, feel cheated by this movie.

    #1186 6 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    This was WIDELY reported regardless of what Arnold thinks. Arnold isn't the rights holder to the Terminator franchise, just an actor.
    Terminator rights were acquired by Annapurna Pictures in 2011 and is responsible for Terminator Genisys, which erased prior movie plot lines via time travel setting up for a 3 movie arc. The movie unperformed and all parties involved got cold feet about moving forward.
    James Cameron regains Terminator Rights in 2019 due to copyright law changes and is planning on doing a sixth Terminator film which has nothing to do with Terminator Genisys and the 3 movie arc planned by Annapurna Pictures and Paramount.
    So if you wish to quibble we both are correct but you are taking what I said out of context. I said Terminator Genisys under performance killed the *trilogy* planned by Annapurna Pictures, which is 100% factual.
    A new movie by Cameron is a different story and isn't connected to Terminator Genisys and in fact ignores most of the prior movies aside from Terminator and Terminator 2 and will be a direct sequel to the second movie.

    I wonder how the hell they will do that. Arnold will need a walking stick by the time that happens...wait a minute, a walking stick shotgun sounds like a great idea...I’m in.

    1 month later
    #1471 6 years ago

    I can’t bring myself to watch TLJ again. The more I think about the movie, the more disappointed I get. It has left a very hollow feeling in the pit of my stomach now, and whenever I think about the movie the more upset I feel.

    I try to pick out the good bits, but that it not enough to give it a pass. The direction they have taken this saga, the way they treated the character of Luke Skywalker, makes me so upset. It has completely shattered me to be honest.

    Someone needs to dig this franchise out of the shit pile it has gotten itself into. The sooner they end this saga and start completely fresh the better.

    It is too much to ask to have some decent lightsabre battles? Perhaps an Old Republic Trilogy, show the heyday of the Jedi and the true diversity of the Force. The battle between the dark and the light, the Jedi and the Sith etc.. or go in a completely other direction and explore parts of the galaxy not shown before. Something other than the crap they gave us in TLJ.

    3 weeks later
    #1553 6 years ago

    I forced myself to watch TLJ again last week. I thought that I might find something i missed the first time. The only scene I really liked from the first viewing was the throne room fight scene. I did enjoy that scene. This time around, I was hoping to find another little gem, something else that I could hold on to. WRONG. Even that scene was disappointing on the second viewing. What a pity.

    2 months later
    #2114 5 years ago

    There were so many things I hated about TLJ. One of those things was the reveal that Rey's parents were junk dealing no-bodies. Well in the video below, this guy shares his theory on how that particular plot point could be retconned.

    I know there are many people that defend that idea that Rey is the offspring of nobody important...that is how real life is, but let’s face it, this is not real life. I want her to be the progeny of someone important, because that is what I expect from this sci-fi fantasy saga. Bloodlines have always been important in Star Wars and TFA spent so much time making me think her linage was going to be important.

    Stop "subverting peoples expectations" Lucas Film and give fans what they want! (Or at least stay consistent within your own story arcs and plot. How hard can it be to plot out three movies that make sense and stay consistent).

    Sadly it's too late for Luke Skywalker, you completely fu*ked that up and there is no way to retcon that. Such a shame.

    #2119 5 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    It really is amazing. Look what the Karate Kid franchise just pulled off with its actor’s 34 years later. It’s incredible how amazing Cobra Kai was led by a nearly 60 year old Johnny Lawrence character that is a nobody in the anels of fiction compared to Luke Skywalker.
    Of course Cobra Kai has the opposite message of most canned franchise shows these days and was incredibly insensitive to the SJWs like KK...one of the reasons it’s so popular and legitimately well reviewed in my opinion.

    I must be living under a rock. I never heard of Cobra Kai. I'll take a look.

    #2125 5 years ago

    I think that Lucas Film need to change tack and put their focus on a new Old Republic Trilogy. That way it will kind of be a re-boot of the franchise, or more like a prequel without all the trappings of story line interference. They can then map out a proper new saga, with fully fleshed out character arcs, continuity between movies and a long term vision. That, IMO, is the only way that they will be able to try and emulate the kind of success Marvel has with its franchise (Or the success of the original trilogy).

    #2136 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/06/disney-scrapping-star-wars-standalone-movies-rethinking-development-and-why-thats-actually-great-for-the-franchise.html
    "Disney is done experimenting with new or unusual filmmakers and will go back to proven veteran talent who they know can handle a big budget Star Wars production in an effort to prevent future production chaos, drama, and firings."
    Hear that? That is the sound of Rian Johnson and the other directors going under the bus to save Kennedy's ass.
    Question is, will it be enough? No one is buying it, someone had to hire and sign off on what those directors were doing.
    K.K.

    Thanks for the link. At least they acknowledge that something is wrong. However, they are still going about it the wrong way IMO. They should retire Kathleen Kennedy and promote Dave Filoni immediately. He is wasted in the Animation department. And the Star Wars story group need a big kick up the arse.

    #2165 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    From rumor mill of commentor I trust: Indicates Kennedy out by September, hence cut spin offs (no sense green lighting if next player chops) but main trilogy still on. Kennedy will NOT be replaced by Filoni, money is on Kiri Hart being given the seat.

    As far as I am concerned, this Kiri Hart is a big part of the problem. The first paragraph from The Wall Street Journal article says:

    "The previously low-profile screenwriter and development executive’s title is vice president of development, but in practice she’s the overseer of every piece of “Star Wars” content produced by Disney and the person who identifies the writers and directors who create it."

    If that's the case then Kiri Hart is just as much to blame for this shit show as Kathleen Kennedy. IMO every member of the Star Wars story group should be put on notice. They need to make wholesale changes or at the very least they need new leadership. Another reason Dave Filoni should be promoted.

    #2169 5 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    There you go, there are probably fan edits out already then!

    How about this one: (unfortunately you need to go on The Pirate Bay to download it)

    https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/last-jedi-mra-fan-edit-women/

    I think it is pretty rough - done before the Bluray release from cam footage.

    EDIT: I just found this reddit thread of a guy who put together a more professional fan edit he called The Last Jedi (Focused Edition), but it seems it has been shut down. No surprise there. Hopefully someone will upload to a torrent site.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/fanedits/comments/83rgr5/the_last_jedi_focused_edition_fanedit_help_me/

    #2176 5 years ago

    Thanks. Downloading now.

    Fingers crossed it's not some kind of Trojan or virus, a last fu*k you from an angry fan...lol.

    #2180 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I hear the 3.9 gig version looks very nice and reported to be clean.

    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    The fallen knight - was it pulled already? Anyone have another source?

    Yep. I stupidly tried to download the 23gig version. I got 50% done and then got an error that I ran out of browser space. When I stopped the download and started again, I get a message saying "we're sorry. You can't access this item because it is a violation of out Terms of Service." Bloody Google.

    I haven’t been able to find another source yet. Hopefully, someone will upload to Pirate Bay or Kickass Torrents. I was really wanting to watch that fan edit.

    #2225 5 years ago

    This fan made movie is better than anything Disney has done with Star Wars!

    But seriously, I just love seeing a well choreographed light sabre battle. That is something we haven't seen since the prequels. The action really starts at 2:00.

    #2239 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Exactly. There are good movies, and blatantly bad movies. The prequels and TLJ are blatantly bad. It's never been about nostalgia. It's about movies written and directed by someone that has a 10 year old mentality. Ooooo special effects. Things exploding. Lightsaber battles way overused. dialogue? who needs quality? Character development and chemistry? Nobody notices that in movies anyway. Characters acting in character? Nah, as long as it looks good on screen.

    I’d settle for a good lightsabre battle right now. That is one thing the prequels did right IMO. So far, the lightsabre battles from TFA and TLJ have been rubbish. Even the one in TLJ with the Royal Guard (or whatever they are called), was poor in comparison to the prequels.

    #2259 5 years ago
    Quoted from sleazius:

    In the original script Jar Jar was eventually revealed as a Sith in the second movie.

    Are you taking the piss? Really? On second thought, that might have been fun to watch...lol.

    #2294 5 years ago
    Quoted from Captain-Flint:

    JJ remade A New Hope, and everyone loses their minds that it's the same old same old. The Last Jedi flips the script and makes ballsy decisions on a new direction for Star Wars to take and everyone Loses their minds that it's out of character. As far as I can tell the Fanboys will never be happy.

    The real reason people are so upset IMO, is the way they treated Luke Skywalker. (Just some of the shameful and despicable plot choices: Throwing away the Lightsaber, trying to kill Ben Solo, he had lost all hope, even calling the lightsaber a laser sword, just to name a few terrible decisions) All the other complaints (although valid) would have been forgiven by the majority of the fan base. I guarantee that if they respected Luke’s character and gave us one damn good lightsaber scene with the Knights of Ren (or something like that) where Luke could really show off his skills, then we wouldn’t be having this debate.

    Yes, not all fanboys would be happy no matter what, but it sure as shit would not have split the fan base so badly.

    #2299 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    There was an early script where Kylo showed up on the island with the Knights of Ren. While he was dueling it out with Rey, Skywalker was dealing with the Knights.
    By "dealing with them" he was full on Jedi Master and stomping them all a new mudhole, by himself.
    I'd paid good money to see that vs what we got. And it would have been in character, see Return of the Jedi but turned to 11.

    Yep. What a missed opportunity. If I wanted my expectations subverted, I’d go watch an independent film or foreign film or a drama of some kind. When I watch Star Wars, I just want to see my favourite Jedi Master unleash the force, and a good old fashioned light saber duel.

    #2301 5 years ago

    I finally got a chance to watch Star Wars: The Fallen Knight fan edit of TLJ after a suggestion by gdonovan

    http://www.thefallenknight.com (Note: Only the 4GB downloaded for me due to google terms of service - But the quality was still very good)

    Well, I must say it was a VAST improvement. In my mind, it will now be the ONLY version I will ever watch again.

    They corrected Luke throwing of the lightsaber over the shoulder, cut out the whole Canto Bight sequence and all events leading up to and after that pertain to that sub-plot. It removes the Leia getting blown out of the ship scene and removes Admiral Ackbar's death, removes the whole Poe mutiny attempt plot, almost completely removes the characters of Holdo and Rose, and does completely remove both DJ (Benecio Del Toro) and Captain Phasma.

    The core story remains intact, fixes many of the issues, plot holes and pointless scenes, and I did not feel that anything was missing from the final product.

    I must thank the guy that put it together. Clark Zuckerberg, thankyou very much!

    #2305 5 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    104 minutes apparently
    I started to watch but was streaming and I had a bad lip sync. While I like the idea of fan edit, there is only so much that can be done. Don't like the momma jokes it just skips 1-2 minutes ahead. I'd rather just watch a good movie than watch a bad movie that is edited down to make it somewhat less bad.
    You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
    It is amazing that people will spend such time on a crappy movie.
    As Bill would say:

    That's just the thing, if you had never seen the movie previously and the fan edit was the only version one watched, they would not even know that parts of the original movie were missing, because the parts that have been cut out are completely redundant to the main story. The movie is much better with the edited version.

    It even somewhat improves (very slightly) the Luke Skywalker plot by cutting out some of the crap on the island. It somehow makes his return as a force projection more meaningful...but maybe that is just me force projecting the desire to see the movie in the best light.

    One of the most important edits was removing the light saber being thrown over the shoulder. That was so jarring and out of character in the movie. Instead with the way it has been edited, he merely drops the light saber. That cut changes the scene dramatically. Using your football analogy, that is a touchdown in my opinion.

    #2308 5 years ago

    About time. Rian Johnson was a slimy, double-crossing, no-good swindler for not including Lando somewhere in TLJ...but thinking about it now, Billy Dee Williams dodged a bullet on that one.

    #2321 5 years ago
    3823B9BA-BC42-4EED-8180-6F72518DCEEB (resized).jpeg3823B9BA-BC42-4EED-8180-6F72518DCEEB (resized).jpeg
    2 weeks later
    #2365 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I may be in the minority but I think Episodes 1-3 are pretty good Star Wars movies. Yes some of the acting is bad in parts but the prequels did an amazing job of showing just how large the Star Wars universe is, how big of a deal the Jedi were and showed how things got to where they were at in the original trilogy. The prequel trilogy overall created a larger world for Star Wars fans which I think is pretty cool.

    One thing they did get right was the lightsaber duels. This duel is one of the stand outs for me. And the John Williams score for this is epic.

    1 week later
    #2399 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Can't say I was interested in the Mandalore backstory very much, Boba was sort of a semi-interesting character till Lucas dumped him the pit. The whole clone wars backstory from the prequels.. meh. Was it explored much in the animated series? I remember catching one or two episodes with the kids which featured Mandalore characters but didn't jump out at me very much.
    I know I'm old, would be nice to have seen some of Brian Daily's Han Solo adventure books adapted.

    I have a novel idea...how about they try something completely new.

    Or if they can’t come up with something completely fresh, then adapt some of the old novel material. Or at least expolore the old republic.

    I think Star Wars needs to remove itself from the original timeline and characters. It needs a whole new story, new characters, new time, new force abilities, a new saga. And in my opinion they need to scrap these stand alone movies.

    #2420 5 years ago

    If they consider making a standalone movie about Vader, they need to adapt the novel Lords of the Sith. Vader is mythic I that novel. It's a must read novel for any fan.

    #2432 5 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Just finished episode 2.
    Overall better than Episode 1, good action.
    Could someone give me a reading list if I wanted to get into the SW book universe? I don’t know where to start.

    This is a good list in order, but includes the comics and movies. Feel free to skip the comics in the list if they are not your thing.

    https://overmental.com/content/star-wars-the-definitive-chronological-viewing-order-of-the-new-canon-21112

    As per my post #2420 above, a good novel to try first would be Lords of the Sith novel by Paul S. Kemp. It is definitely a stand out. It is one of the best novels so far in the new Canon in my opinion. Also it is not part of a trilogy of books, so reading it out of chronological order will not be an issue.

    #2456 5 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I’m worried that these books are described as YA (young adult) reading.
    I may be better served with some other science fiction writing for adults?

    You want some Science Fiction novels for adults, then you might like the following: (I can suggest plenty more if you like good Sci-fi)

    No Mans War Series by John Scalzi - they are brilliant and definitely more aimed at adult readers.
    The Black Ship Trilogy, then the Expansion Wars trilogy by Joshua Dalzelle - Lots of space battles and tactics

    2 weeks later
    #2536 5 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    I haven’t watched that scene in 15 years. God, it’s worse than I remember.

    Let's face it, there hasn't been a truely good Star Wars movie since 1984.

    2 weeks later
    #2565 5 years ago

    This guy completely sums it up for me. He articulates exactly why Star Wars fans have abandoned the franchise.

    #2582 5 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    OT: I got my mind blown by a movie today. If you all ever want to see a movie with no studio or mainstream constraints check out "Mandy" I don't even know how to freaking categorize it, horror, fantasy or sci-fi, it doesn't matter, to me it was like a graphic novel come to life. Lol, it was weird and awesome. I recommend it, but remember this is not a mainstream movie, this is straight up art house...ala David lynch in the 90's stuff. Nicolas Cage hasn't been unleashed like this since Vampire's Kiss.

    I just watched the trailer for Mandy. It looks disturbing. I like it.

    1 week later
    #2618 5 years ago

    Here is a still from the new John Favreau Star Wars tv series The Mandalorian. It gives me hope.

    13D06927-AC62-4856-A76C-91BF1B3B47B4 (resized).jpeg13D06927-AC62-4856-A76C-91BF1B3B47B4 (resized).jpeg

    #2620 5 years ago
    Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

    has any reboot, rehash, spin off, prequel or remake ever been worth a damn? nope. its all just laziness, lack of ambition or absence of skill for that matter. Its Just the younger generation running out of ideas, trying to re-cash-in on the success of former generations. or........ it just says that the former generations cant handle "new" or "change" so they just keep selling them the same bill of goods. either way, people keep paying for shit

    Absolutely yes. One example is Battlestar Galactica.

    1 month later
    #2679 5 years ago
    Quoted from oktobernv:

    Nahhhh...
    " Sith " was "ok" a best......
    Still a pile of shit movie.
    EP 1 , 2 & 3 are 100% UNWATCHABLE...

    I think what episode 1, 2 and 3 did for the Star Wars franchise was expand the lore. It introduced non-book readers to the Jedi Order, their organisation, their beliefs, their philosophy.

    More importantly for me, the prequels gave us some truly awesome light saber duels. The skills, choreography and use of the force during combat were a stand out in the prequel trilogy. I miss that the most.

    #2705 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    fight scenes were just fluff with no real substance to anything.

    I must disagree. The final battle between Anakin and Obi Wan did have substance. Particularly the dialogue from Obi Wan.

    Example:

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: You were the Chosen One! It was said you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!

    Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader: I hate you!

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: You were my brother, Anakin; I loved you.

    That line in itself is one of my favourites in the entire series of movies. Those lines were delivered with real anguish and sorrow. Pretty powerful scene in my opinion.

    #2724 5 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    If you’re trying to convince people that the prequels have merit, you’re not doing yourself any favors by reproducing George Lucas’ clunky dialog.

    I was merely responding to CaptainNeo who said that the fight scenes had no substance. I think my example has proven that that particular fight scene had substance.

    It’s not the words, it’s the delivery and the feeling behind that "clunky" dialogue. Some of my favourite scenes in movies (I.e- Gladiator) have clunky dialogue. They were performed by such an incredible Actor (Russel Crowe) that he can make "clunky dialogue” sound good.

    #2751 5 years ago

    They should just start Episode 9 with Luke waking up from a bad dream. Carry on as if that whole TLJ movie was a bad nightmare. Problem solved.

    #2758 5 years ago
    Quoted from JWJr:

    Bobby Ewing to the rescue!

    Yep. Exactly like that.

    3 weeks later
    #2837 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Just saw this video on my YouTube recommended list, it's a very well done and professional looking Star Wars fan film. This seems better then most of the scenes in The Last Jedi lol.

    Most impressive for a fan film. This seems to be heavily influenced by the Lords of the Sith novel. A must read for Star Wars fans.

    2 months later
    #3062 5 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    As an aside, Brie Larson AGAIN was brutally rude, hostile and condescending to fans who participated in a Wired Q&A press event a few days ago.
    This is the new spokesperson for the Marvel Universe; a thin skinned, humorless ideologue with resting bitch face and no ass.
    Just great. It was fun while it lasted.

    Each to their own I suppose, but I think Brie Larson is extremely attractive, small arse and all IMHO. What I don’t agree with is her SJW agenda and disagree with most of the shit that spills from her mouth.

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