(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel

By InfiniteLives

2 years ago

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  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by wesman
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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 211 votes
    • decent, better than the prequels 239 votes
    • really good, on par with the originals 78 votes
    • great! one of the best 73 votes
    • who cares, star wars sucks 42 votes

    (643 votes)

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    Topic index (key posts)

    3 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #2827 Analysis worth watching. Posted by gdonovan (1 year ago)

    Post #3520 Path to get Disney + discounted. Thanks @fosaisu Posted by fosaisu (6 months ago)

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    #341 2 years ago

    Before people drop the highly cliched "you're old" line which I find to be both overused and irrespective to any debate, consider this:
    Disney keeps purchasing tried and true intellectual properties saving the need for creation of something new.
    Reboots, prequels and retoolings are growing stale quickly for a great number of people.

    Why did I dislike the TFA and TLJ so much? Disney posed this great promise of moving away from the prequel trilogies and then brought in the original actors as a bait and switch to what we knew.

    Instead we get re envisioned heroes, bland story telling, lack of character development.

    Subjective is opinion, and I am sure any Star Wars movie they make will be financially successful. That however does not "prove in the courtroom of public opinion" that it is good

    We the people who are "just old and jaded" are responsible for this franchises initial popularity.

    Why cant't Intelllectual properties and franchises be left alone? Where does it stop? Reprint the Mona Lisa with a tattoo and nose ring? Change Mozart by adding a digital drum beat?

    The Last Jedi, to me, truly represents creative bankruptcy.

    #377 2 years ago

    I love Red Letter Media reviews. They make good points and add humor. I can't wait for their take on The Last Jedi.

    #528 2 years ago

    Here we go with the “you’re old” defense again. Such a prominent display of inarguable airtight logic.
    This movie can’t be lacking necessary plot points. It cant be disappointing to see our favorite heroes and the legacy which disney outright paid for fail.
    Everything new is good. Any dissentIng opinion is the product of the horrors of aging.


    #641 2 years ago

    It is also of interest to report Disney's strong arm tactics with this movie.
    Theaters are required to show The Last Jedi in their largest auditorium for four weeks. 65% goes to Disney now.

    Quoting: "The contract to run the latest Star Wars film, which lands everywhere in just six weeks, also ups Disney's take to 70 percent if the theater puts a foot wrong on a number of counts, according to a Wall Street Journal report.

    U.S. theater owners are required to run the movie for four weeks without skipping a single screening if they want to avoid that penalty. They also have to run specific marketing promotions for the film exactly when Disney wants, and not a day early.

    It's an unusual clause, both in its duration (two weeks is more common for hit Disney movies) and its level of punishment — 5 percent of the Last Jedi gross could make the difference between profit and loss for many theaters.

    Other blockbuster movies might give at most a 60 percent take to the studio, and even then the theater would usually get more after the first week or so. Internationally, a 40 percent cut is more common. "

    I will let you decide how that sits with you

    #673 2 years ago
    Quoted from RobKnapp:

    First off it is a subjective topic . Music , Film , Art , Theartre . Secondly we live in a free society. Thirdly we have a "frontal lode" that serves to regulate and mediate the higher intellectual functions. This enable people to have free thought and form subjectivity . If you do not understand this facet of life. Well you may be beyond all hope . P.S. Just busting your balls.

    My frontal "lobe" does not comprehend your grammar. Luckily I was able to determine the differences between objective and subjective analyses. Choose either, the movie was still bad.

    #699 2 years ago

    I'm sure you've seen this along the way, maybe it was already posted.
    But....worth a laugh.

    If you enjoyed the movie, congratulations and continue to enjoy it.
    You won't be alone. Star Wars will always make money.
    Wish I could join your ranks.

    #765 2 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Sorry, I don't mean to be a contrarian but I'm not giving Abrams a pass yet...he sucks too. The whole thing with the way Han died was bullshit, it's just them saving 25 Mil on Ford's future appearances. I mean if you want to kill off the old guard fine, do it but build a f-ing story around it man. The movie opens, Kylo Ren is a bad guy, why? His parents fought the empire, his grandpa killed the f-ing emperor, his uncle is Luke Skywalker FFS! Why put him in a mask and make him a look like Vader part deux? Why not just invent a new storyline where Snoke was trying to reconstitute the empire and attack the republic, ala ISIS in the mideast. Why not give Han and Leia a good send off, like them sacrificing their life so the Rey and Finn can get away....die as husband and wife holding hands or some BS like that. This stuff just writes itself for chrissakes...Lol. These guys should be working on music videos not on the biggest movie franchise in the world. I can sit here in my living room in my boxers and type up with a more compelling story than this mess they've created.

    This is just so true. ^ ^ ^

    The legacy of this movie franchise is what Disney wanted to capitalize on. Spent 4 billion for it, so they weren't toying around.
    I love (d) these movies, always a part of my childhood and then carried it into my adult years, like most of you I am sure.
    Now it feels so..... tarnished.
    The stories are appealing to the youth market who don't know any better to begin with. So much fan service for the feminists, SJW's, diversity nuts etc.

    If they wanted to run in a new direction, so be it. They pulled a bait and switch and pointed out these would be better than the sequels, we have the original cast after all!

    Either write a new story line and run with that, or leave the tried and true heroes alone. Give them some dignity.

    I hope Episode 9 (if you are even brave enough to call these concurrent films) will be lessons learned. Millennial fan fiction sure isn't my thing.

    #805 2 years ago

    InifiteLives, you started a post that has received a ton of discussion. While I think the poll choices require more accurate wording, it has brought a polarizing subject to the front. I enjoy coming back to read it.

    Some of you guys have made excellent posts: Good opinions, defense of the film, research, ideas, valid criticisms etc.

    Then we have that exacerbating thread after thread "You're wrong" guy, lurking around trolling like a smart ass endlessly. Thank God for the ability to ignore individual users.

    Ask yourselves this; If the entire plot of this movie was exactly the same, and you removed any connotation of Star Wars whether it be the legacy characters, vehicles or name and just made it a standalone sci-fi movie....How well would it do in the box office?

    I do not honestly believe it would have succeeded.

    #812 2 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    I agree with your post, I don't give 2 shits if a film is made by a team of pygmies if the film is good. If the film sucks we should question the people behind it, especially if you paid almost 40 bucks to see it. I'm willing to wager after Solo bombs at the B.O. you will see a change at Lucasfilm. 75 thousand people panning this film is no fluke.

    Two thumbs up on this.

    #885 2 years ago

    I got a few good laughs out of this one.

    To be fair, while it is an attack on the movie, it does offer some defense of it. It is a much more eloquent means of expressing my opinion, in puppet form.

    #1037 2 years ago

    Apparently this film (TLJ) is not doing very well, or at least under expectations, in China.
    Too many articles to link, but you can find them easily.

    #1097 2 years ago

    Dear Last Jedi fans,

    7055E32F-DA41-4916-9F0D-C3B93093B0D0 (resized).jpeg

    #1161 2 years ago

    Sorry, Disney may not have wanted to call this a series reboot, but to me it is nothing but.
    They placed the Episode 7 and 8 labels on it and dangled the return of the original beloved characters like some ersatz homecoming.
    Instead we got clear diversity quotas, feminism, and hackneyed story telling.
    Anything the original heroes stood for character wise, all of their growth and trials were summarily dismissed.
    Like what you want, hate what you want.
    This movie played like millenial fan fiction to me.
    Simple answer is to just shovel these fecal abominations into the theaters but have it be in the future well beyond anything we saw in Star Wars through Return of the Jedi.

    625F233F-AEF1-4B00-9C09-005D4FBB95C5 (resized).jpeg

    #1241 2 years ago

    “Graying space nerds”, out comes the you’re old card yet again.
    The defense rests and drops the mic. No further argument necessary.
    So anyone who enjoyed the legacy of the star wars universe prior to Disney taking over should check in to the nursing home now.
    On my way, ill ponder why Disney is buying up one intellectual property after another and trying to corner the market on anything pop culture in the late millennium.
    Certainly there was no need for that 4 billion dollar purchase since they could have EASILY marketed socialist and feminist agendas outside of the SW universe.
    Correct, the Last Jedi was a masterpiece of writing, pacing and character development!

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    #1243 2 years ago

    47 years old here.
    I became a professional pilot thanks to that 1977 film. Never outgrew my desire to race around in an X-Wing fighter.
    When I saw Disney bought Lucasfilm, I was cautiously optimistic.
    I looked forward to seeing what JJ Abrams had to offer; left dissapointed but entertained from his play it safe rehash.
    Rogue one looked exciting, enjoyed the action and nostagia but felt the characters were very boring.
    The Last Jedi? Start to finish bored and angered by the script. Production values were of course excellent as I expected

    #1277 2 years ago

    Hope springs eternal; we as fans who have enjoyed the franchise for so many years reluctantly and foolishly restore our “hope” everytime a new franchise movie is announced!
    “Hope” in the form of believing they will finally get it right this time around....
    “Hope” that we wont have to see knock off and completely useless Emperors Royal Guards do an impersonation of the Power Rangers/1975 Kung Fu movie pose after they fail at their only job.
    “Hope” that in the next installment they utilize 400 varieties of Porgs so the Pokemon Go fans can go capture them all!!

    47169FE5-3545-4078-B537-D36FDBB43367 (resized).jpeg

    2 weeks later
    #1381 2 years ago

    Cautious optimism setting in. I.....cant be hurt.....again.....

    #1395 2 years ago

    Before you get too excited by the “Game of Thrones producers” announcement, please remember they were using award winning fantasy fiction for the first few seasons.
    The TV show is on cable where nudity, sex and gratuitous violence are demanded. They exhausted the source material. I myself was really dissapointed by the story telling they created to advance the overall story. Too rushed, felt like fan faction to me.
    It will be interesting to see how they do with an open concept Star Wars film. Apples to Oranges.

    Just to satisfy the thread, The Last Jedi is really, really bad

    2 weeks later
    #1436 2 years ago

    To simplify where we are at with Disney and Star Wars is obviously difficult.
    They are marketing heavily, and it is to a new audience. The established fan base is not their market. It would seem they just want us to consume their merchandise.
    Hollywood is left of center, liberal, SJW, call it what you will. Reboots are the new normal.
    Disney uses corporate strategy, focus groups, and marketing studies as their tools. Charming story with endearing characters? Nah.

    How they expect to mesh these rehash plots, gender politics, diversity studies and still have over priced toys fly off the shelf is beyond me.
    You think a child is going to put down an iPad to play with a Rose or Holdo action figure?

    If you do not like what you see, you have little choice but to move along. Star Wars is no longer special.

    I vote with my wallet, good bye Star Wars. I am sorry this happened to you. Thank you for the memories.

    4 weeks later
    #1561 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Already have several times.
    Basic math at work here, its not hard.

    I read the article. I thought it was interesting and insightful. I could care less that the site is called film goblin.

    If anyone disagrees with their findings or has evidence to the contrary, by all means post it or move along already. Thinly veiled insults do not support a contrarian argument.

    It seems the Disney corporation will double and triple down before being seen as wrong for their creative decisions.

    #1562 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Yes, we’ve discussed your math (and the the quality and plausibility of your inputs and assumptions) several times. I shouldn’t have responded again as it’s a pointless and stale conversation.
    The great news is that if your *ahem* alternative media sources are even close to correct, the whole SW team has already been canned. No way Disney would casually accept the profit numbers you’ve conjured.

    Maybe this YouTube video will provide a supporting argument more attuned to your liking.

    2 weeks later
    #1702 1 year ago

    Saw the new Solo trailer, and I can't tell if I have TLJ goggles on....gave me an "uh oh" vibe.
    I might like Alden in other roles, but he just looks wrong as Han Solo to me.

    #1746 1 year ago

    Am I the only person who sees Rian Johnson's smug face, reads his comments in complete disregard for fans opinion, and want to punch him in his round face?

    1 month later
    #2027 1 year ago

    No spoilers from me here.
    The Last Jedi was just awful. I punished myself with one viewing and could never stomach watching it again. As a result I truly could care less about where the franchise is going now.
    Saw Solo, found it to be ok, but boring if that makes any sense?
    Alden Ehrenreich was not nearly as bad as I predicted, but i didnt buy him as Han Solo.
    Rest of the casting choices were “meh”
    Jar Jar still worse than L3-3T. And “she” was beyond ridiculous.

    #2038 1 year ago
    Quoted from okayestpinballer:

    A movie costs on average about $15 and 2 hours of your life.
    You spend the next 5 months and countless dollars of wasted productivity whinging on about it.

    This is a forum where people voice their opinions and have discussions. This thread was created specifically regarding dislike of TLJ and broadened into fellow SW films.

    Your input is to deride that very purpose.
    The irony is palpable.

    Judging by the wealth of Youtube videos, commentaries, personal discussions and numeorus periodicals, it would seem there is a vast majority of fans who are dissatisfied with Disney Studios direction for this franchise. Right or wrong is subjective.

    For the record, I have suffered zero loss of productivity. My financial status remains unharmed as a result of this post

    1 week later
    #2090 1 year ago

    Please also consider, we knew very little about TFA prior to its release. Disney promised however a fresh start from the "unpopular" prequel trilogies with successful J.J.Abrams taking over. They plastered pictures of a reunited cast of Han, Luke and Leia everywhere. Nostalgia was this giant fishing lure they kept casting. No more Jar Jar Binks! No more tedious politics or plastic actors!

    Of course this was going to make huge amounts of money.

    Remember the common consensus after seeing the film?
    Entertaining movie, but it certainly had way too much cut and paste of the original Star Wars. There was immediate disappointment in the new characters while feeling a bait and switch tactic was employed with the whole nostalgia hook.

    The audience was entertained. The fans grew weary but remained hopeful. Let's see where this is headed....

    Then we got the Last Jedi.

    #2109 1 year ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Except the Darth vader scene which was really out of place and out of character for that era of Darth vader. You can tell it was forced as fan service and ruined the continuity of what Darth Vader was at that time.

    Agreed. Dearth Vader was a classic villain, not an unstoppable murder-bot. I felt that scene was out of touch with continuity.

    10 months later
    #3324 9 months ago

    I would be happy if they would just stop rebooting movies from our youth.
    Just create something new. If they feel it is their imperative to inject social issues, gender identity etc so be it. No one will be flustered if it is a new product.
    Flavor of the week actors, female substitutions and diversity quotas are just too distracting to me when applied to classic intellectual properties.
    I will pass on the next Star Wars movies. I have no interest in any more Indiana Jones movies. The damage is done, they’ve shown me as a consumer what it is they want to sell.
    Apologies for the negativity, I am all for new and exciting movies and shows to watch.

    2 months later
    #3378 7 months ago

    Marvel announced their plans for phase 4.

    Me? Ugh.....

    #3417 7 months ago

    Removed post, decided it was argumentative.

    Sum it all up:

    I subjectively do not enjoy the creative decisions Disney is making with Marvel and Star Wars. I will vote with my wallet.

    2 months later
    #3626 4 months ago

    (Sarcasm ahead)

    Love to know why everything has to be a trilogy. I seem to recall George Lucas had a ton of material he wanted to convey, but truncated pending the success of the first.
    If these new hacks have no direct plan and need to creatively brainstorm, why a trilogy?

    Hopefully we get some spin off stories Im dying to see. Anything less than 3 star wars movies per year would be an absolute tragedy.

    How Chewie got his crossbow and bandolier!

    The origins of R2D2’s voice programming featuring a culturally diverse cast.

    CGI Leia and Rey emasculating various male rebels while flawlessly using force powers to conquer the universe.

    #3629 4 months ago

    The Rose Tico story. “Don’t worry, Love will land this ship!”
    4E795214-BF8E-4F1B-9EE2-FE9F96F1C735.gif45FE8ADB-3F3E-4F72-99A3-BED7569E80B7 (resized).png

    1 month later
    #3804 3 months ago
    Quoted from zaki:

    Haters ...last Jedi was awesome. I'm not joking either. I have it , force awakens, and phantom menace as top 3 star wars movies. I think so many people hate it because it broke the rules. Wasting snoke and having Rey's parents as drunks was great. Nobody saw that coming. Not sure what is so bad in the movie. It had action, humor, great story, etc. Much better sw movie than originals or prequel. Hate on hand solo movie.. that was a bad movie.

    I can’t tell if this is professional grade sarcasm, weapons grade bolognium, or flawless trolling.

    #3814 3 months ago
    Quoted from zaki:

    i think you all are taking star wars too serious. porgs were cool...so were ewoks. i heard the space ship out of fuel complaint before...but so what.... it's an entertainment movie. the script complaint...all the star wars movies have corny, tacky lines. so what. return of the jedi was probably worst on it.
    i'm just saying it was entertaining star wars movie. i'm not being sarcastic in any way at all, i thinks its the best of the star wars films. rian johnson did a better job directing vs other directors. his twists in the movie were well done and for a quick minute i did princess leia was dead.
    i think the phantom menace got bashed on too when it should not have. it has some flaws (vader builds cp3o?), but overall a better movie than most other star wars movie. laim neeson was cool too.

    Currently thinking its trolling . Double down on the madness!

    TLJ was so bad, in so many ways. There is no way this should have been made in our SW franchise; As a Lifetime movie for women, yes.

    #3825 3 months ago
    Quoted from zaki:

    further comments. if any movie was bad...(besides han solo...ok it's really bad. ron howard ruined it), it was attack of the clones. go and look at the story, script and the overall movie vs. the last jedi. same with a the revenge of the sith. there are LOT of major flaws. for example: 1. padme is pregnant and has twins,...in what, 4 days? 2. anakin never admits to slaying the kids and is blamed and attacked. 3. ending crunched into 5 seconds to credits. 4. worst of all...they take baby luke on tatonnie...uh why? with foster parents he never met? . now, compare that to the new star wars movies and look at my point of view. the new ones are written a lot better!
    i would put attack of the clones and empire strikes back the bottom of the 8 movies in the saga. i rank this way (which can cause controversy for you all...but you all love that) 1. last jedi, 2. force awakens, 3. phantom menace ( I believe it made the most of any star wars movie until the force awakens), 4. new hope, 5. rotj, 6. revenge of sith, 7. empire strikes back, 8. attack of the clones.

    We have crossed into the absurd.

    1 week later
    #3924 84 days ago

    Having seen all of the youtube videos discussing plot leaks, if this movie is even half as bad as what they are saying....God help us all.

    2 weeks later
    #4267 66 days ago

    Its become abundantly clear that Kathleen Kennedy was riding the coat tails of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. This new trilogy captured none of the magic that our beloved franchise did in the 70’s and 80’s.
    Which to me is all the more depressing, as they had such an unbelievable chance reuniting the original cast. Could have been a tremendous opportunity to pass the torch.
    Instead we have disjointed story telling, complete lack of any concise plan, boring characters and according to pinside, plenty of 2019 identity politics bickering.

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