(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel

By InfiniteLives

6 years ago


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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 243 votes
      34%
    • decent, better than the prequels 251 votes
      35%
    • really good, on par with the originals 80 votes
      11%
    • great! one of the best 80 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 55 votes
      8%

    (709 votes)

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    Post #2827 Analysis worth watching. Posted by gdonovan (5 years ago)

    Post #3520 Path to get Disney + discounted. Thanks @fosaisu Posted by fosaisu (4 years ago)


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    -2
    #585 6 years ago

    Many super fans are so set in their thinking and expectations that they literally cannot acknowledge a different explanation / direction / story arc from their own; and most everything many super fans have been picking on in SW8 can be explained away pretty simply.

    Snoke had already begun to corrupt Ben. When Luke recognized that, he briefly considered killing Ben to spare the galaxy from the darkness to come. It makes sense and works with the OB1 scene in that picture; the text is just narrow spin. And it can be simply explained. Luke could always feel the good in his father, and saw even more of a pit of darkness in his nephew. And he still couldn't go through with killing him. It's reasonably playing on the human condition. Strange to complain about the human condition. Hyperspeed tracking can be explained and has been on the net, same with hyperspace collisions, etc, etc. In an open alternate universe most everything can be explained away or justified in a movie. To try to pick it apart because it isn't what you wanted to see is often futile, just say you didn't like the direction they took in the movie. That's frankly the root of the issue.

    Interestingly, The Empire Strikes back had similar hand-wringing from a certain segment back in the day as well which is now being pointed out and discussed on the net in the context of SW8 (never knew that). http://mashable.com/2017/12/19/last-jedi-empire-strikes-back-haters/#8FIxx4YSZsq3. TESB is now highly respected in the series. (IMO, a high point)

    One thing I learned from all this is that Rotten Tomatoes user ratings can be gamed; SW8, 92% from the critics and <55% from users (at this time). I don't remember such a large disparity before on RT. Usually, if anything user ratings tend to be higher than critic ratings. Lots of talk/evidence of bots/shilling.

    Great movie! I enjoyed Star Wars The Last Jedi. A little long, slow in a few spots and a few minor quibbles but it was novel and fun. I enjoy new and different directions. SW8 delivered that. YMMV.

    #588 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    And you feel the review from the critics is perfectly fair and reasonable? Disney does seem to use intimidation here and there with critics. I have no faith in the critics myself, they collectively seem wrong with so many reviews in so many ways.

    It was merely an observation that "generally" one sees user reviews at a similar rating to the critic reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. And imo its expected; those ratings tend to not be independent variables, so to speak.

    Aggregated critics reviews have been a reasonable guide for me. I usually agree with them, but not always. Things in life aren't black and white... so I wouldn't use the terms "perfectly fair and reasonable" as I don't believe that's a good premise. More like "reasonably fair and generally accurate". Lots of wiggle room there for the greyness in life.

    I don't know the Disney backstory but I'll read up on it when I have some time. I don't doubt some potential influence on reviews. As mentioned, life is not black and white; I see all that time that there's a different set of rules for the 1%er's out there (in people and business).

    #590 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    I generally find the audience reviews more accurate than critics.

    Sure. And as I posted, I've observed that they both tend to have similar rating values on Rotten Tomatoes, especially for the big budget hollywood movies. It's just "really not" what's happened with SW8 (so far); big disparity, with critics of all things liking it much more.

    #593 6 years ago

    Ya, was sitting here thinking of Justice League as I've also seen it. Looked it up and it's a big disparity too, but not quite as big as SW8 and the opposite way as you mentioned. Don't user ratings generally exceed critic ratings on RT? That's been my experience. Though rarely as large as JL. This may be another example of super fans skewing the RT rating. Comic book superhero and SW themes do have huge fan bases.

    I saw JL at the theater and again tend to agree more with the critics than the users. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy JL. I'd rate it a 6-7. Could have been much more. There are far better superhero movies out there, but some far worse ones too. And talking about plot holes, unfortunately JL was bad there; notably worse than SW imo.

    #606 6 years ago

    I'll be interested in where such predictions go. So much disparity from main stream press.

    From Entertainment Weekly, a large pop culture publication.

    The Last Jedi has been a hit with critics and at the box office, earning rave reviews that have declared the film the best entry in the franchise since Empire Strikes Back. It also scored the second highest opening of all time (behind The Force Awakens), raking in $220 million at the box office in its first weekend. And early numbers suggest it won’t slow down anytime soon.

    http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/21/rian-johnson-star-wars-last-jedi-backlash/

    #608 6 years ago

    My disparity comment came primarily from TL saying "the first week’s numbers for TLJ were okay". I thought that part was significant understatement. But true, it doesn't really apply to anything else. Next time I should be more specific.

    As for the SW8 box office drop, I did find that movie going is also on its way to a 22 year low at this time.
    http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-box-office-challenges-20171223-story.html

    The disparity in RT ratings is being discussed by others. For those interested in such discussions...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2017/12/21/how-to-help-fix-our-terrible-discussions-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi/?utm_term=.01565d2545eb

    1 week later
    #850 6 years ago

    Almost anything can be explained in a fantasy universe. There are scenarios all over the net. Here's one.
    https://www.quora.com/In-Star-Wars-why-isnt-hyperspace-ramming-a-standard-weapon

    Quoted from InfiniteLives:So basically, my issue with it is:
    Take some Droid maned ships and fire them into the death star and volia you win. Or any other major space battle. Cheapens the whole universe imo

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