(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel


By InfiniteLives

2 years ago



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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 209 votes
      33%
    • decent, better than the prequels 237 votes
      37%
    • really good, on par with the originals 78 votes
      12%
    • great! one of the best 72 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 42 votes
      7%

    (638 votes)

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    There are 4551 posts in this topic. You are on page 90 of 92.
    #4451 10 days ago

    Most sci-fi and fantasy movies do. They are still fun to watch. The original and Return of the Jedi were the best ones. Empire was good except for the Ewoks, they were a little corny.

    #4452 10 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Most sci-fi and fantasy movies do. They are still fun to watch. The original and Return of the Jedi were the best ones. Empire was good except for the Ewoks, they were a little corny.

    Actually Ewoks were in Return of the Jedi, not Empire.

    #4453 10 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Most sci-fi and fantasy movies do. They are still fun to watch. The original and Return of the Jedi were the best ones. Empire was good except for the Ewoks, they were a little corny.

    Quoted from henrydwh:

    Actually Ewoks were in Return of the Jedi, not Empire.

    I took that as expert trolling, but you never know ...

    #4454 10 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I took that as expert trolling, but you never know ...

    Given the number of updates to the originals over the years who knows. There could be Ewoks running around cloud city now...

    #4455 10 days ago

    The original Star Wars is a masterpiece of lean, efficient story telling. There's not an ounce of fat on that movie.

    The only fault I've ever found in its plot is the silly strategy employed for the trench runs. Even as a little kid, I couldn't figure out why you'd send flights of three in formation to get shot down. "Hurry, I can't hold them!" Well yeah, no shit. With no rear guns you're just there to get shot.

    Why wouldn't you send your three ship attack group in with one torpedo ship in the trench and two held back to cover, once you saw what Vader was doing? Biggs says he'll stay far enough back to cover Luke, but he and Wedge do the exact same thing the other flights did.

    #4456 10 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    The original Star Wars, if Im not mistaken was a low budget film that was never expected to take off like it did. I loved it as a kid and I still watch it now and enjoy it but now I see its flaws. I just enjoy them for what they are. Does that make more sense. I tend to step on myself when explaining things and I come off as a very negative person.

    The original SW must have had a decent budget, lots of special effects in it for the time. But of course absolutely no one expected it to do business like it did, there wasn't really a template yet for the effects-driven blockbuster (thought Jaws was a prototype).

    The original SW trilogy has flaws, of course, but it's also got a lovable quality that keeps people coming back, even if they weren't steeped in it as a kid. Half of that was probably casting Harrison Ford in his prime, it's hard to dislike anything he made in that late 70s - mid 80s run. But there was more to it than just that, tons of great supporting characters (with excellent casting), and the balance between awesome special effects and the mysteries of the Force was perfectly struck. As someone else observed in this thread, it's not like we're talking Citizen Kane here, but there was something special about the first three movies that they've failed to recapture in the latter six (The Force Awakens came closest to recapturing that OG magic, though the excitement of seeing a new SW movie for the first time in 15 years may have played a role).

    Quoted from racer_x:

    The original Star Wars is a masterpiece of lean, efficient story telling. There's not an ounce of fat on that movie..

    I love the original SW, the only major structural criticism I agree with is that ending with an awards ceremony was pretty flat, felt like Lucas couldn't come up with an ending so just tossed that in there (and as my kid pointed out, Chewie didn't even get a medal!)

    Quoted from zr11990:

    Oh, does anyone wish they hadn't killed off Kylo at the end of ROS?

    I see your point. Adam Driver was the best actor in the new trilogy (I thought the other lead performances were solid too, he's just a great actor) so of course he was going to find ways to make Kylo compelling. And I didn't love the life-force sapathon that lead to his death, felt like Rey could have just given him back half a tank of life juice and everything would have been OK. But he had a good character arc in the end and I thought he earned his redemption, so it seemed fitting that he died. I just wish they'd thought of a more epic way to kill him off.

    #4457 10 days ago
    Quoted from racer_x:

    The original Star Wars is a masterpiece of lean, efficient story telling. There's not an ounce of fat on that movie.

    I always loved how it threw you right into the action. Space battle, forced boarding, shooting, escape - I mean right from the get go it puts you halfway into the story, again - this is how the old serials worked as well.

    #4458 10 days ago
    Quoted from racer_x:

    The original Star Wars is a masterpiece of lean, efficient story telling. There's not an ounce of fat on that movie.

    Classic story telling format with classic themes- The hero's journey being the primary one.

    Combined with some state of the art effects, an epic sound track and at the right time in history the movie became a blockbuster.

    Cinema in the early to late 70's was dominated by disaster and apocalypse films which were a downer to most of the pubic, seeing such a feel good movie like Star Wars was a breath of fresh air which helped reset the tone of movies for several years.

    #4459 10 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    The original SW must have had a decent budget, lots of special effects in it for the time. But of course absolutely no one expected it to do business like it did, there wasn't really a template yet for the effects-driven blockbuster (thought Jaws was a prototype).

    1) After Lucas hit a home run right out of the box with American Graffiti, Fox pretty much gave him a blank check to make Star Wars.. though towards the end they were plenty skittish how things were going to turn out as overruns mounted.

    2) Even Lucas had no idea it would take off which was why Splinter of the Minds Eye novel was a low budget sequel follow up written at the same time. Once things took off, SOTME was pretty much ignored with Lucas hoping no one paid too much attention as it contradicted several things in Empire.

    #4460 10 days ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    Given the number of updates to the originals over the years who knows. There could be Ewoks running around cloud city now...

    So is that version stored in the cloud?

    #4461 9 days ago
    Quoted from girloveswaffles:

    So is that version stored in the cloud?

    How has Disney missed this marketing angle, Cloud City™ cloud storage? They're sitting on a goldmine!

    #4462 9 days ago
    Quoted from henrydwh:

    Actually Ewoks were in Return of the Jedi, not Empire.

    Sorry, my bad.

    No I was not trolling

    #4463 9 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    1) After Lucas hit a home run right out of the box with American Graffiti, Fox pretty much gave him a blank check to make Star Wars.. though towards the end they were plenty skittish how things were going to turn out as overruns mounted.
    2) Even Lucas had no idea it would take off which was why Splinter of the Minds Eye novel was a low budget sequel follow up written at the same time. Once things took off, SOTME was pretty much ignored with Lucas hoping no one paid too much attention as it contradicted several things in Empire.

    I read it and liked it.

    #4464 9 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Splinter of the Minds Eye novel

    Quoted from zr11990:

    I read it and liked it.

    Any Ewoks?

    #4465 9 days ago

    I do not think there were Ewoks in the book but it has been a long time

    #4466 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    I read it and liked it.

    I did too, still have my original dog eared copy somewhere.

    #4467 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    I do not think there were Ewoks in the book but it has been a long time

    No Ewoks.

    #4468 9 days ago

    Told you

    #4469 9 days ago

    Fuck it's been a 1.5 years since I've been in this thread, and I've got some bad news for everyone; I just saw the new ROS and it wasn't that good.

    But seriously, I think somehow this fucking thing may be worse than the last jedi which can;t be true becasue that was the worst movie I've ever seen.

    Holy shit...just no no no...why? So dumb on so many levels but space horses was embaressing (anyone remember Bravestar cartoon from the 80s?), and the single antennae tower; I'd say it the worst goddamn thing ever but it kind of goes in line with Stupid Star Wars shit.

    Thank the gods for Babu Frik And the Rocketeer's ass.
    EDIT: And hiding Rose Tycho

    #4470 9 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Fuck it's been a 1.5 years since I've been in this thread, and I've got some bad news for everyone; I just saw the new ROS and it wasn't that good.
    But seriously, I think somehow this fucking thing may be worse than the last jedi which can;t be true becasue that was the worst movie I've ever seen.

    EDIT: And hiding Rose Tycho

    Valid points but go watch TLJ again..if you dare. It isn’t even close- TLJ is flying a ship at lightspeed into a brain bad..

    #4471 9 days ago

    While searching something to listen to yesterday, I pulled up the original NPR audio version of Star Wars. This was done right after the movie came out, and I forgot how good it was. It has over 2 hours of scenes not in the movie, especially some of the material at the beginging of the movie that George cut out.

    But as I listened to it, I realize how different the new movies are from the original films. The plot, character expositions, risk and reward decisions, just the overall flow and structure of his original scripts is light years (sorry for the bad pun), from the situational CGI scenes of today.

    I don't think I can ever watch any of the new films anymore, they just aren't the same thing. The originals were a product of the 30's, these new films are a product of culture 90 years later.

    And by the way Rouge One totally doesn't align to the original drafts at all.

    #4472 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    I read it and liked it.

    About a third of the way through, still holds up well.

    The 2 Yuzzem strike me now though as slighter shorter Wookies, I wonder why they were not used in the book?

    20200114_113738_resized (resized).jpg
    #4473 9 days ago

    If I’m not mistaken, SOTME was supposed to be a lower budget sequel to Star Wars but when SW to took off they had a bigger budget so they did ESB, correct?

    #4474 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    If I’m not mistaken, SOTME was supposed to be a lower budget sequel to Star Wars bit when SW to took off they had a bigger budget some they did ESB, correct?

    Correct.

    #4475 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    If I’m not mistaken, SOTME was supposed to be a lower budget sequel to Star Wars bit when SW to took off they had a bigger budget some they did ESB, correct?

    Yes in which Vader was not Luke's father, actually described as just Gran Moff Tarkin's henchman and Luke and Leia have the vague hots for each other but decorum prevents anything from happening.

    #4476 9 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Luke and Leia have the vague hots for each other but decorum prevents anything from happening.

    So whats wrong with banging your hot sister in a galaxy far far away?

    #4477 9 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    So whats wrong with banging your hot sister in a galaxy far far away?

    And a long time time ago...that shit was cool back then.

    #4478 8 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    So whats wrong with banging your hot sister in a galaxy far far away?

    Quoted from TheLaw:

    And a long time time ago...that shit was cool back then.

    Easy now, this isn't Game of Thrones.

    #4479 8 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Easy now, this isn't Game of Thrones.

    Don't lump me in with the Generation Z newbs; I was in to incest long before it was cool!

    #4480 8 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    just the overall flow and structure of his original scripts is light years (sorry for the bad pun), from the situational CGI scenes of today.

    And also movies back then........they weren't trying to build a franchise. Lucas himself effectively showed how massive the toy market could be but it was still an after thought. Meaning Han could shoot someone in a bar because it was more important to who he was as a character. But now - can't do that cause it makes the character less marketable in the franchise machine. You can't build characters for the sake of or for whats best for the story of that movie. You have to fit in what's the most marketable to the larger franchise. This is why Marvel was successful......they had the larger comic franchise to rely on to know what worked and what doesn't. Franchise and political correctness or statements. Imagine trying to develop a character for the sake of the story or the movie, but having to make fundamental decisions of male/female/lgbtq/race/religion...........and all while trying to be the "least" offensive to the common denominator so you can make the most $$.

    #4481 8 days ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    So whats wrong with banging your hot sister in a galaxy far far away?

    Also in the book it is interesting as being very self contained; very little reference to the first movie. Kenobi is mentioned time to time as a mentor and the destruction of the Death Star at Luke's hand, Tarkin gets a two lines I think and Vader of course but I don't recall anything at all in regards to Han or Chewbacca. It is very much the adventures of Luke and Leah in a new setting with Vader not showing up till the third act.

    It could have been reworked into a nice little movie with some minor edits to fit into existing canon.

    #4482 8 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Also in the book it is interesting as being very self contained; very little reference to the first movie. Kenobi is mentioned time to time as a mentor and the destruction of the Death Star at Luke's hand, Tarkin gets a two lines I think and Vader of course but I don't recall anything at all in regards to Han or Chewbacca. It is very much the adventures of Luke and Leah in a new setting with Vader not showing up till the third act.
    It could have been reworked into a nice little movie with some minor edits to fit into existing canon.

    So in the book Tarkin surivives the Death Star explosion?

    Also, I'm digging the "Artoo Deetoo" and "See Threepio" spelling from the back of the novel.

    #4483 8 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    So in the book Tarkin surivives the Death Star explosion?

    Just mentioned as the architect of the Deathstar and Vader's leash holder.

    #4484 8 days ago
    Quoted from Hobbypinball:

    Imagine trying to develop a character for the sake of the story or the movie, but having to make fundamental decisions of male/female/lgbtq/race/religion...........and all while trying to be the "least" offensive to the common denominator so you can make the most $$.

    That's the way that most films are made nowadays.

    #4485 8 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    That's the way that most films are made nowadays.

    That’s interesting because Quintin Tarantino was talking about directing Star Trek. I think I would have been great but don’t think it would have passed whatever criteria is deemed appropriate for a film franchise.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2020/01/quentin-tarantino-star-trek-exit-1202203086/amp/

    #4486 8 days ago

    Found posted somewhere in the morning news crawl:

    Lucas, Kasdan, Kershner, and their collaborators wanted boys and young men to dream of adventure, spiritual fulfillment and a righteous republicanism; Bob Iger and his minions only seek to crush those dreams and indoctrinate their most impressionable patrons with fecklessly recycled concepts, pedestrian craftsmanship, bloated productions, thematic insipidity and a hopeless poverty of invention. However, those who bemoan this for years with periodic jeremiads have for hits and hubris chosen to overlook what’s obvious. If you want Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, the droids, Lando, et al. — you can have them any time! Whoever hasn’t the trilogy’s original theatrical cuts on VHS or DVD can obtain video files, or DVD or Blu-ray images of Harmy’s Despecialized Edition. Scores of novels based on the films have been penned and published since 1976, and many of these — Alan Dean Foster’s adaptation of A New Hope and his original Splinter of the Mind’s Eye, a trilogy of Han Solo Adventures, and Timothy Zahn’s Heir to the Empire/Thrawn trilogy — are as enjoyable as any popularly marketed pop novels. That so many fans submit to Disney’s morbidly revolting perversion of this property rather than disregard such drivel to concentrate on its far more engaging, imaginative expanded universe (or any number of other properties) only confirms that the fretful defeatist, ever more prominent and clamant among boomers, Xers and millennials, would rather whine than act constructively.

    In the course of the past 130+ years, hundreds of thousands of features and shorts have been produced. At least 50,000 of French, American, Japanese, British, Korean, Italian, German, Russian, Iranian, Austrian, etc. provenance are worth watching. Perhaps 8,000 of them are masterworks. For whoever’s read, heard and seen their fill of Star Wars, as many as 200 successfully marketed alternatives in the genres of science fiction, fantasy and space opera are readily available, and many more obscure, akin works are waiting to be rediscovered. With this overplus of options available via books, videocassettes, optical discs and streaming services, one can be certain that nobody needs Star Wars so much as Disney needs them to perpetuate their abuse of oligarchical power.

    Those addicted to their geeky furor would be wisely counseled to stop whining, withdraw from what’s left of mainstream popular culture, and seek fictions that reflect, affirm and enlarge on their values, culture and society.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think the first part about the motivations of Lucas, Kasdan and Kershner is up for grabs (Making a well crafted movie and getting rich would have been my take) but the ones by Igar and Kennedy are proven by their statements in public.

    Food for thought.

    #4487 8 days ago

    "Righteous republicanism"? I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean, but clunky enough to have been written by George himself ...

    #4488 8 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Fuck it's been a 1.5 years since I've been in this thread, and I've got some bad news for everyone; I just saw the new ROS and it wasn't that good.
    But seriously, I think somehow this fucking thing may be worse than the last jedi which can;t be true becasue that was the worst movie I've ever seen.
    Holy shit...just no no no...why? So dumb on so many levels but space horses was embaressing (anyone remember Bravestar cartoon from the 80s?), and the single antennae tower; I'd say it the worst goddamn thing ever but it kind of goes in line with Stupid Star Wars shit.
    Thank the gods for Babu Frik And the Rocketeer's ass.
    EDIT: And hiding Rose Tycho

    This pretty much sums up my feelings. I was able to watch TROS in a way that didn't give Disney any of my money so I did it. It is fucking terrible. It is just a mess on an epic scale. I actually think it is worse than TLJ. I didn't think that was possible. I still hate TLJ more because it ruined Star Wars, Luke and this new trilogy. Keri Russell was hot as always and actually Daisy Ridley looked a lot hotter in this one than she did in TLJ. It was as if Rian Johnson could even make hot women look ugly. I'm surprised he wasn't responsible for the smoking hot Brie Larson looking like crap in End Game.

    And in related news I am rewatching my favorite TV series of all time: Breaking Bad. There is just one TERRIBLE episode that adds nothing to the story and is just a waste of almost an hour of your time. That episode: "Fly". The creator of that episode: Rian fucking Johnson. God I hate that dipshit.

    #4489 8 days ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    Breaking Bad. There is just one TERRIBLE episode that adds nothing to the story and is just a waste of almost an hour of your time. That episode: "Fly". The creator of that episode: Rian fucking Johnson. God I hate that dipshit.

    I read that episode was a result of budget issues, cheap-ass AMC wouldn’t find the show appropriately so they wrote a one room, two actor episode to free up money for other things. I didn’t like it better on rewatching either. (AMC pulled the same stunt with Walking Dead, hugely under-budgeted after it blew up so they had to write in several boring sit-around-talking episodes each season to save cash).

    That said, Rian Johnson has made some good stuff, Brick was cool and Knives Out was awesome.

    #4490 8 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think the first part about the motivations of Lucas, Kasdan and Kershner is up for grabs (Making a well crafted movie and getting rich would have been my take) but the ones by Igar and Kennedy are proven by their statements in public.
    Food for thought.

    I think it's as easy as Lucas etc only wanted the youth to share the joy they had watching the serials, and listening to like-wise radio shows like I Love a Mystery. Adventure escapism/entertainment at it's core.

    This new breed is about $/EPS/ROI and political ideology only.

    It's as simple as that.

    #4491 8 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    That said, Rian Johnson has made some good stuff, Brick was cool and Knives Out was awesome.

    Looper is also pretty damn good & one of the most original time-travel movies ever. Shoutout to the Spanish film Timecrime though as being the best IMO.

    I'll see Knives Out but only when it's streaming on HBO or something.

    #4492 8 days ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Looper is also pretty damn good & one of the most original time-travel movies ever.

    From what I can recall, Looper was a decent popcorn flick but I'm game for almost anything with Bruce Willis in it.

    #4493 8 days ago

    I like Looper and Brick but I will never see anything by Rian Johnson again after TLJ so Knives Out is out for me.

    #4494 8 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Righteous republicanism? I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean, but clunky enough to have been written by George himself ...

    Base on the writers style, I think we can assume they are referring to a more classical reference than a particular modern one.

    #4495 8 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Base on the writers style, I think we can assume they are referring to a more classical reference than a particular modern one.

    Right, I didn't take it as a reference to the Republican party -- which wouldn't have made any sense in the context of Star Wars -- just pompous sounding mumbo jumbo. But maybe the writing style improves as you read along, I admit I didn't make it past the third sentence.

    #4496 8 days ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Looper is also pretty damn good & one of the most original time-travel movies ever. Shoutout to the Spanish film Timecrime though as being the best IMO. I'll see Knives Out but only when it's streaming on HBO or something.

    Oh yeah, I forgot about Looper but that was a good one too.

    Knives Out is a classic goofy murder mystery, sort of a spiritually successor to Clue. Great cast as well. If you can't get into Daniel Craig fully committing to a preposterous southern accent it may be a long two hours for you, but I thought it was hilarious.

    #4497 8 days ago

    Seeing all these films when they originally hit the theaters, IMHO there's been two good Star Wars movies: Star Wars ('77) and Empire Strikes Back ('80). A huge solid foundation... but after that...

    Everything has been either derivative, embarrassing, or just plain stupid since then... That includes Return of the Jedi. Watching ROTJ after such as fantastic movie as Empire Strikes Back still gives me whiplash like "what kind of crap is this, Star Wars and Empire was epic,".

    Its the same feeling after back in the day seeing Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Terrible!!!) and the Wrath of Khan (one of the greatest movies ever made... not just sci-fi). Its like... what just happened?

    Ewoks... Ugh!

    Full disclosure - I did like Han and Chewie in Force Awakens.... "You're cold?!!"

    #4498 8 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Oh yeah, I forgot about Looper but that was a good one too.

    Both Rian and Garath Edwards had stellar careers going before they shit the bed with SW; that's what's extra insulting.
    Strange both made a bag of shit but for diff'rent reasons; Edwards they put too many restrictions on him, and Johnson they put zero.

    #4499 8 days ago
    Quoted from bayoubilly70:

    Seeing all these films when they originally hit the theaters, IMHO there's been two good Star Wars movies: Star Wars ('77) and Empire Strikes Back ('80). A huge solid foundation... but after that...
    Everything has been either derivative, embarrassing, or just plain stupid since then... That includes Return of the Jedi. Watching ROTJ after such as fantastic movie as Empire Strikes Back still gives me whiplash like "what kind of crap is this, Star Wars and Empire was epic,".
    Its the same feeling after back in the day seeing Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Terrible!!!) and the Wrath of Khan (one of the greatest movies ever made... not just sci-fi). Its like... what just happened?
    Ewoks... Ugh!

    Were of the same mind; The first two were great, the third.. eh. Lucas figured out where the money was (toys) and was chasing those bucks with a vengeance. Han really does nothing in the movie, his arc was done in the first act if not the prior movie and is just along for the ride.

    Another Deathstar? Is this a thing? Well at least they won't do that again.

    woops.

    Still I give it a pass, weakest of the three but has some great moments. Luke and Darth's saber battle in the throne room is epic.

    Wrath of Khan is one of the greatest movies in sci-fi hands down. A few of the effects and mattes look dated but still holds up very well.

    #4500 8 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Both Rian and Garath Edwards had stellar careers going before they shit the bed with SW; that's what's extra insulting.
    Strange both made a bag of shit but for diff'rent reasons; Edwards they put too many restrictions on him, and Johnson they put zero.

    Spare the rod, spoil the director?

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