(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel

By InfiniteLives

6 years ago


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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 243 votes
      34%
    • decent, better than the prequels 251 votes
      35%
    • really good, on par with the originals 80 votes
      11%
    • great! one of the best 80 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 55 votes
      8%

    (709 votes)

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    #4351 4 years ago
    Quoted from girloveswaffles:

    The same one fro Star Wars Rebels?

    Yep. Nice to see things from the cartoons showing up in live action. With Filoni involved and the way Rebels ended, it’s possible that Sabine, Asoka or even Grand Admiral Thrawn could make an appearance at some point.

    #4352 4 years ago

    Is there only one Grand Moff? I think it’s time for another.

    #4353 4 years ago

    Star Wars leaks:

    • The Mandalorian Season 2 (already confirmed for Fall 2020, with additional rumors offering several established characters from the Skywalker saga movies will make appearances during the show’s second season).

    • The Ewan McGregor Obi-Wan Kenobi Disney Plus series is said to be titled "Old Ben," with additional rumors offering that a young Luke Skywalker is being cast.

    • The Rogue One prequel series starring Diego Luna back as Cassian Andor is said to be on hiatus; the scripts are written but the "Old Ben" Kenobi show is being given priority.

    • Clone Wars Season 7 (gets released February 2020), with a potential Season 8.

    • Star Wars Detours, an unaired American CGI-animated comedy series, may or may not eventually be released as LucasFilm is still sitting on it.

    • Originally Trilogy Archival Editions, restored versions of the Original trilogy; there is a lot of legality surrounding release it, but it's planned to be released eventually.

    • The Game of Thrones creators who bailed is said to have been developing an Old Republic film trilogy, with Disney now searching for new directors.

    • A Broadway musical is in development said to follow Rey after the events of Rise of the Skywalker titled Echos of the Future.

    • Rian Johnson is said to be still involved with LucasFilm and hasn't gotten the boot as his new Star Wars trilogy, said to have the working title "Offspring of the Jedi," was dependent on the success of Rise of the Skwalker. It's claimed that Rian Johnson's new trilogy actually hinged on the critical success of The Rise of Skywalker, which was Johnson's ultimatum to see if he's really hated by the fanbase or it's the STs characters and seeing itself that the fanbase hates.

    • The Glare of Thrawn, a new standalone movie has just been greenlit, but projects like this always fall through, so it may or may not happen.

    • Project Luminous, a multimedia project covering multiple books and comics that takes place after Episode 9 is in development.

    • A new Electronic Arts video game with Jedi: Fallen Hope is in development.

    • Dave Filoni is developing a new Star Wars animated series, New Jedi Order, which follows Luke Skywalker building his new Jedi Order, and that they want Mark Hamill to return and voice Luke.

    https://cosmicbook.news/star-wars-leaks-mark-hamill-jedi-series

    I see 5 or 6 items that would be on Disney+, as predicted.

    Curious if the Thrawn movie would be general release or exclusive to Disney+

    #4354 4 years ago

    Finally.

    #4355 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Rian Johnson is said to be still involved with LucasFilm and hasn't gotten the boot as his new Star Wars trilogy, said to have the working title "Offspring of the Jedi," was dependent on the success of Rise of the Skwalker. It's claimed that Rian Johnson's new trilogy actually hinged on the critical success of The Rise of Skywalker, which was Johnson's ultimatum to see if he's really hated by the fanbase or it's the STs characters and seeing itself that the fanbase hates.

    Yuck! That is absolutely horrible news. That means KK is here to stay as well...

    #4356 4 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Yuck! That is absolutely horrible news. That means KK is here to stay as well...

    Again, this is leaks and who knows at what level the info is.

    Roundhead Johnson damaged the brand pretty bad, I think he is out regardless.

    Word is KK is out for sure but Iger wants to replace her with another woman to control the fallout.

    Can't recall where I saw it but someone had the theory Johnson gave KK everything she wanted. Every utterance she made on any subject he literally stuffed into the movie to keep in her good graces. Certainly plausible enough, a middling director who has never done a large tentpole movie is going to give his boss what ever she wants and not rock the boat.

    #4357 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Again, this is leaks and who knows at what level the info is.
    Roundhead Johnson damaged the brand pretty bad, I think he is out regardless.
    Word is KK is out for sure but Iger wants to replace her with another woman to control the fallout.

    Of course. What happened to hiring the most qualified candidate?

    #4358 4 years ago

    The first three books were excellent, I'll have to dig around in storage and pull them out and see if they still hold up.

    #4359 4 years ago

    Wow that post is stuffed with information...

    I always felt they would hash out Luke building his Jedi temple with a new cartoon series. It makes the most sense vs live-action, as all the main characters (Han, Leia, Lando, etc) can be re-cast & they can tell whatever stories they want in an animated series. They can interact with characters from Rebels, cover the formation of the new Republic, etc etc. All the fans really want is to see Mark Hamill reprise his role the way we all expected. It could tie into Baby Yoda & the Mando. It would be a huge hit for Disney+

    They have an approximate 10 year window to play around in from ROTJ & the birth of Ben Solo. I think that's where they should focus their efforts for Disney+. If they are doing more films, let them be set in the Old Republic period a thousand years earlier. As far as Rian Johnson's "broomstick children" post-TROS trilogy, NOBODY wants to see that shit.

    #4360 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The first three books were excellent, I'll have to dig around in storage and pull them out and see if they still hold up.

    Besides the "heir to the Empire" Thrawn Trilogy from the 90s, Zahn more recently wrote a new trilogy which got very good reviews. I haven't read them yet though. Thrawn is such a great character. He deserves to appear in live-action someday. He was the best thing to come out of the Rebels TV series.
    series-D34-triad (resized).pngseries-D34-triad (resized).png

    #4361 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Star Wars leaks:
    • The Mandalorian Season 2 (already confirmed for Fall 2020, with additional rumors offering several established characters from the Skywalker saga movies will make appearances during the show’s second season).
    • The Ewan McGregor Obi-Wan Kenobi Disney Plus series is said to be titled "Old Ben," with additional rumors offering that a young Luke Skywalker is being cast.
    • The Rogue One prequel series starring Diego Luna back as Cassian Andor is said to be on hiatus; the scripts are written but the "Old Ben" Kenobi show is being given priority.
    • Clone Wars Season 7 (gets released February 2020), with a potential Season 8.
    • Star Wars Detours, an unaired American CGI-animated comedy series, may or may not eventually be released as LucasFilm is still sitting on it.
    • Originally Trilogy Archival Editions, restored versions of the Original trilogy; there is a lot of legality surrounding release it, but it's planned to be released eventually.
    • The Game of Thrones creators who bailed is said to have been developing an Old Republic film trilogy, with Disney now searching for new directors.
    • A Broadway musical is in development said to follow Rey after the events of Rise of the Skywalker titled Echos of the Future.
    • Rian Johnson is said to be still involved with LucasFilm and hasn't gotten the boot as his new Star Wars trilogy, said to have the working title "Offspring of the Jedi," was dependent on the success of Rise of the Skwalker. It's claimed that Rian Johnson's new trilogy actually hinged on the critical success of The Rise of Skywalker, which was Johnson's ultimatum to see if he's really hated by the fanbase or it's the STs characters and seeing itself that the fanbase hates.
    • The Glare of Thrawn, a new standalone movie has just been greenlit, but projects like this always fall through, so it may or may not happen.
    • Project Luminous, a multimedia project covering multiple books and comics that takes place after Episode 9 is in development.
    • A new Electronic Arts video game with Jedi: Fallen Hope is in development.
    • Dave Filoni is developing a new Star Wars animated series, New Jedi Order, which follows Luke Skywalker building his new Jedi Order, and that they want Mark Hamill to return and voice Luke.
    https://cosmicbook.news/star-wars-leaks-mark-hamill-jedi-series
    I see 5 or 6 items that would be on Disney+, as predicted.
    Curious if the Thrawn movie would be general release or exclusive to Disney+

    I hope barely any of this is true, but with the production rate Disney has made with Marvel....

    It's just so, so much. I guess there's no brand fatigue to be heard of, when billions can be made.

    So much for artistic integrity. Though, that seemed to have died off in the 80's for Disney, around the time the Rescuers and such, were the last few Disney animated films that felt like they existed more for artistry, than branding and cd sales.

    #4362 4 years ago
    Quoted from wesman:

    I hope barely any of this is true, but with the production rate Disney has made with Marvel....
    It's just so, so much. I guess there's no brand fatigue to be heard of, when billions can be made.
    So much for artistic integrity. Though, that seemed to have died off in the 80's for Disney, around the time the Rescuers and such, were the last few Disney animated films that felt like they existed more for artistry, than branding and cd sales.

    Like I said last week- Disney has three streaming services and a projected loss of 4 billion on them in 2020. They need exclusive popular content like no ones business as soon as possible. If I was a wagering man my money is they will pull back on the movies (sorry roundhead johnson!) and throw a lot of Star Wars content on Disney+

    Mandalorian is just the opening SW act. Marvel stuff coming too, Falcon and Winter Solder, Loki, What If? & WandaVision come to mind.

    The Disney+ stuff is fairly low risk and high reward and will help build good will back up among the Star Wars fans. Will be interesting if it is successful.

    #4363 4 years ago

    https://www.slashfilm.com/obi-wan-kenobi-tv-series-cast-luke-skywalker/

    Kenobi series has been confirmed and they are looking to cast someone as an 8 year old Luke Skywalker.

    "McGregor confirmed at Disney’s D23 Expo in August that he would be reprising his role as the wise and dashing Jedi Master in the Disney+ series, and later revealed that the show will be six one-hour episodes that will take place between the events of Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. “The storyline sits between Episode III and Episode IV. The Jedi Order was falling apart,” McGregor said earlier this fall. “It will be interesting to take a character we know in a way and show him — well, his arc will be quite interesting, I think, dealing with that the fact that all the Jedi were slaughtered with the end of Episode III. It’s quite something to get over.”"

    #4364 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    https://www.slashfilm.com/obi-wan-kenobi-tv-series-cast-luke-skywalker/
    Kenobi series has been confirmed and they are looking to cast someone as an 8 year old Luke Skywalker.
    "McGregor confirmed at Disney’s D23 Expo in August that he would be reprising his role as the wise and dashing Jedi Master in the Disney+ series, and later revealed that the show will be six one-hour episodes that will take place between the events of Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. “The storyline sits between Episode III and Episode IV. The Jedi Order was falling apart,” McGregor said earlier this fall. “It will be interesting to take a character we know in a way and show him — well, his arc will be quite interesting, I think, dealing with that the fact that all the Jedi were slaughtered with the end of Episode III. It’s quite something to get over.”"

    8 years old.... Uh oh.

    #4365 4 years ago

    Don't forget the Rose Tico show everyone is now apparently pushing for.

    #4366 4 years ago

    I just got back from ROS and really enjoyed it. I am hoping that a manufacturer can make a pin based on Episodes 7, 8 and 9. Likely Stern given the history, but I would enjoy another SW pin, preferably one with a world under glass feel.

    #4367 4 years ago

    Just saw ROSW and it was not horrible all considered, not a good movie but not as bad of a train wreck as TLJ or Solo. I will say there were only 30 people in the theatre and 3 left in the middle of the film.

    I can not imagine a worse casting of an actor than Adam Driver (horrible).

    I thought the Finn, Poe, Rey scenes were usually ok and I like some of the humor.

    #4368 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Just saw ROSW and it was not horrible all considered, not a good movie but not as bad of a train wreck as TLJ or Solo. I will say there were only 30 people in the theatre and 3 left in the middle of the film.
    I can not imagine a worse casting of an actor than Adam Driver (horrible).
    I thought the Finn, Poe, Rey scenes were usually ok and I like some of the humor.

    I actually thought Driver was one if the few redeeming qualities if the new trilogy

    #4369 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    I actually thought Driver was one if the few redeeming qualities if the new trilogy

    He's definitely a good actor, I can't say that about the new cast minus Oscar Issacs. He's filling the "left of center" space formerly occupied by Depp pretty nicely I think......his movies were mostly indie and art flicks (just like early Depp) before he signed on to this dog.

    #4370 4 years ago

    Adam Driver is ok but doesn’t look much like Ford. I know it’s possible to have different looking children but not even a passing resemblance.

    Also Mandolorian is finally over and very dull or TV action like the A-Team more than cinematic TV like GoT.

    #4371 4 years ago

    The problem with Adam Driver isn't the acting, it's just that he's not intimating or that scary of a bad guy. The bad guy in the Mandolorian was much more intimidating. It was fine when he had his helmet on, I think it would have been a lot better if he would have left on his helmet for the entire series until possibly the end.

    #4372 4 years ago

    Two guys discussing Rise of Skywalker. Funny shit.

    Star Wars
    1977-2019
    RIP

    #4373 4 years ago
    Quoted from taylor34:

    The problem with Adam Driver isn't the acting, it's just that he's not intimating or that scary of a bad guy. The bad guy in the Mandolorian was much more intimidating. It was fine when he had his helmet on, I think it would have been a lot better if he would have left on his helmet for the entire series until possibly the end.

    He was fine till he took the helmet off and then my first reaction was "who is the emo kid?"

    #4374 4 years ago
    Quoted from motorbreth77:

    Two guys discussing Rise of Skywalker. Funny shit.
    Star Wars
    1977-2019
    RIP

    that's hilarious.

    #4375 4 years ago

    https://cosmicbook.news/star-wars-rise-skywalker-box-office-fading-fast

    Deadline, of all places, reports on the news - as the numbers don't lie - that the Skywalker running cume went from being 2% behind Last Jedi on Sunday to being 8% behind in its first 13 days through Wednesday.

    #4376 4 years ago

    .....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings. When you look at other valid review sites, the audience reviews are same as the critics, around 50-60% approval rating. Wish this would become a bigger story. Now that the holidays are over, I'd expect those TROS numbers to take a big hit in the next 2 weeks.

    https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/02/new-analysis-claims-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-inflated-rotten-tomatoes-verified-audience-score-with-fake-reviews/

    #4377 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    .....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings. When you look at other valid review sites, the audience reviews are same as the critics, around 50-60% approval rating. Wish this would become a bigger story. Now that the holidays are over, I'd expect those TROS numbers to take a big hit in the next 2 weeks.
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/02/new-analysis-claims-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-inflated-rotten-tomatoes-verified-audience-score-with-fake-reviews/

    Not going to happen, no one wants to piss off the 800 pound gorilla in the room (Disney)

    Russian bots man, Russian bots.

    #4378 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    ....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings.

    Wait a second...the same company that alleged all of us TLJ detractors didn’t really exist and we were actually just all bots is now using...bots to fluff their garbage ratings? Bwahahaha! If that can be proven the hypocrisy would be just too much for me!!!

    #4379 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    .....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings. When you look at other valid review sites, the audience reviews are same as the critics, around 50-60% approval rating. Wish this would become a bigger story. Now that the holidays are over, I'd expect those TROS numbers to take a big hit in the next 2 weeks.
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/02/new-analysis-claims-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-inflated-rotten-tomatoes-verified-audience-score-with-fake-reviews/

    So if it's being done on a movie rating site, what is stopping the same thing from happening to other non entertainment polls?

    #4380 4 years ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    So if it's being done on a movie rating site, what is stopping the same thing from happening to other non entertainment polls?

    WAR IS PEACE
    FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
    IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

    #4381 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    .....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings. When you look at other valid review sites, the audience reviews are same as the critics, around 50-60% approval rating. Wish this would become a bigger story. Now that the holidays are over, I'd expect those TROS numbers to take a big hit in the next 2 weeks.
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/02/new-analysis-claims-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-inflated-rotten-tomatoes-verified-audience-score-with-fake-reviews/

    I should dig up a few posts where board members implied I was wearing a tinfoil hat.

    If there is buckets of money to be made, someone will game the system for all its worth.

    Disney is no exception and there is ample evidence they are doing just that.

    #4382 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    .....and the jig is up! Rotten Tomatoes definitely using cut & paste reviews by bots & spam accounts to inflate TROS audience ratings. When you look at other valid review sites, the audience reviews are same as the critics, around 50-60% approval rating. Wish this would become a bigger story. Now that the holidays are over, I'd expect those TROS numbers to take a big hit in the next 2 weeks.
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/02/new-analysis-claims-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-inflated-rotten-tomatoes-verified-audience-score-with-fake-reviews/

    Man, her youtube video isn't exactly encouraging, as in she doesn't seem to natively understand or even find the software on her own. And the video in general doesn't feel incredibly "professional".

    I wouldn't be surprised if there's doctoring on Disney's part, especially with the Fandango connection, but this movie was going to have initial massive success either way, and even if there are plenty of bogus user reviews here, that can't create legs for the movie, from real patrons. That's the real test.

    Either way, Disney has this license, it won't ever leave them. That's the most significant issue on hand. And to what extent they continually flood the market with this license.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    I find the "release the JJcut" initiative more absurd. It's akin to changing the aroma of a fart. No matter how much more old dead Jedi ghosts could be added, or Finn moving a chest of space drawers, this movie series was initially artistically bankrupt from sadly the time the ink was signed.

    #4383 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I should dig up a few posts where board members implied I was wearing a tinfoil hat.
    If there is buckets of money to be made, someone will game the system for all its worth.
    Disney is no exception and there is ample evidence they are doing just that.

    As for the sanctity of online polls, they’re generally not worth the paper they’re printed on, and are readily gameable by big companies (as well as pissed-off fanboys and Russian bots). You’d hope no one takes them too seriously, but most people have no clue how legit statistical sampling actually works, so it’s probably too much to ask.

    But you were definitely still wearing a tinfoil hat with regards to TLJ ticket sales and profitability, and you’ll never convince me otherwise!

    #4384 4 years ago

    I finally watched some of it yesterday, not all of it, and nope, I didn't pay to see it, I paid to see "Uncut Gems"....So they have light traveling ships with sophisticated jump drives but no one has explored the "unknown region"? But an ancient device the Wayfinder can apparently do that....cool. Palpatine is on an ice planet called planet Excicle, which sounds a lot like icicle....lol! Oh my god. Can someone please explain how Kylo can snatch a physical object on another planet...WTF is that! And Force healing, is that even a thing? I also got to hand it to them for having the balls to kill another original character in a completely shitty way. The best part was Rey stopping a ship midair, (forget the gratuitous backflip to cut the wing off of a Tie Fighter) So let me get this straight, Obi-wan could not stop a radiator thrown at him by Doku but Rey can stop a ship from taking off? Ok, nice! All they need to do now is have Captain Marvel team up with Rey on the next film.
    At this point we walked out to go see uncut Gems, Jesus, I can't believe I walked out of Star Wars to go see Adam Sandler playing a gambling Jewish Jeweler....you can't make this shit up.

    #4385 4 years ago

    Taken from a LINK is WESMAN's post above

    GREAT read here that I think a lof of folks might have missed.....

    Here's what I've been told from a source that worked on TROS.
    Long

    Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me. The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.

    The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.

    JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.

    Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year. Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.

    JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.

    WB wants Abrams for some DC projects. My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC. They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.

    My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.

    JJ was devastated and blindsided by this. He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story. While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered. My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before. He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.

    Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.

    Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.

    JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.

    JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA. It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.

    JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.

    May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial. He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first. He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.

    The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.

    My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.

    My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?” My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.

    Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise. “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene. At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.

    My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.

    JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.

    In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.

    Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.

    They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.

    The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words).

    The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8. There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried. The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there. Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands. One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.

    Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2 mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader's breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).

    They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.

    The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).

    Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.

    Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.

    The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still. JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too. My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.

    Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated. There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened. This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.

    Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ.

    There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through. On her part, her going through the realization that there's something sinister about her past. Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out. My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam's performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn't happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.

    The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue. Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t). The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots. It was a part of the re-editing. Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.

    JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.

    JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story. The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”). JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him. He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by. A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said "what the fuck??" when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.

    JJ's cut still exists and “will always exist”. We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”

    Ok, so there you have it. If there are questions, I will try to follow up with my source but it’s up to them if they want to share more so I cannot guarantee an answer.

    Edit: I forgot one thing that the source wanted included, concerning FinnPoe in TROS:

    The source asked about FinnPoe after seeing Oscar Isaac's comment about how Disney didn't want it to be a thing. This is true. JJ fought to make this happen. This is why Oscar is blaming Disney. It's not just a random throwaway comment. He knows for a fact that it was Disney because these discussions happened. The main cast is insanely close with JJ and are just as pissed, though seemingly more outspoken about it than JJ. During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who's black made them nervous. JJ fought to make that happen for about nine months before getting approval. The same issue came up when JJ fought to have Finn&Poe in TROS but he lost that battle as he lost many creative battles for this film. Many people, JJ included, came to the realization during this production that the story really is told by shareholders/investors instead of the creatives or anyone at Disney specifically. He tried to make a lot of things happen and was shut down because of this. They had him on a leash and many blame TLJ for the stricter creative approach.

    #4386 4 years ago

    Saw the movie last night, enjoyed it and answered many questions for me.

    I think the rumors of a Old Ben series where Luke and Leia were kids is interesting since it is a period of time in the story that really hasn’t been explored outside of the books.

    Just a hunch on the Mandolorian and where the story is likely going is the rise of the first order. Again, not much of a story between the fall of the empire and the first order.

    You all need to get back to playing some pinball, some incredible conspiracy theories being tossed around here. I’ve had some good laughs this morning catching up on the last 7 pages here.

    I have spoken...lol

    #4387 4 years ago
    Quoted from oktobernv:

    Taken from a LINK is WESMAN's post above
    GREAT read here that I think a lof of folks might have missed.....
    Here's what I've been told from a source that worked on TROS.
    Long
    Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me. The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.
    The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.
    JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.
    Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year. Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.
    JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.
    WB wants Abrams for some DC projects. My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC. They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.
    My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.
    JJ was devastated and blindsided by this. He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story. While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered. My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before. He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.
    Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.
    Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.
    JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.
    JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA. It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.
    JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.
    May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial. He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first. He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.
    The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.
    My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.
    My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?” My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.
    Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise. “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene. At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.
    My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.
    JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.
    In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.
    Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.
    They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.
    The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words).
    The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8. There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried. The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there. Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands. One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.
    Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2 mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader's breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).
    They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.
    The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).
    Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.
    Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.
    The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still. JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too. My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.
    Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated. There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened. This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.
    Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ.
    There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through. On her part, her going through the realization that there's something sinister about her past. Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out. My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam's performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn't happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.
    The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue. Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t). The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots. It was a part of the re-editing. Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.
    JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.
    JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story. The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”). JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him. He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by. A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said "what the fuck??" when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.
    JJ's cut still exists and “will always exist”. We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”
    Ok, so there you have it. If there are questions, I will try to follow up with my source but it’s up to them if they want to share more so I cannot guarantee an answer.
    Edit: I forgot one thing that the source wanted included, concerning FinnPoe in TROS:
    The source asked about FinnPoe after seeing Oscar Isaac's comment about how Disney didn't want it to be a thing. This is true. JJ fought to make this happen. This is why Oscar is blaming Disney. It's not just a random throwaway comment. He knows for a fact that it was Disney because these discussions happened. The main cast is insanely close with JJ and are just as pissed, though seemingly more outspoken about it than JJ. During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who's black made them nervous. JJ fought to make that happen for about nine months before getting approval. The same issue came up when JJ fought to have Finn&Poe in TROS but he lost that battle as he lost many creative battles for this film. Many people, JJ included, came to the realization during this production that the story really is told by shareholders/investors instead of the creatives or anyone at Disney specifically. He tried to make a lot of things happen and was shut down because of this. They had him on a leash and many blame TLJ for the stricter creative approach.

    The blame game has already started.

    I don't think for a second JJ is "gutted," the man is a hack.

    This is all about whom to blame when the final boxoffice numbers come out and JJ and friends is making a preemptive strike to cover his ass.

    #4388 4 years ago
    Quoted from oktobernv:

    Taken from a LINK is WESMAN's post above
    GREAT read here that I think a lof of folks might have missed.....
    Here's what I've been told from a source that worked on TROS.
    Long
    Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me. The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.
    The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.
    JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.
    Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year. Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.
    JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.
    WB wants Abrams for some DC projects. My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC. They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.
    My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.
    JJ was devastated and blindsided by this. He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story. While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered. My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before. He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.
    Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.
    Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.
    JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.
    JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA. It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.
    JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.
    May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial. He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first. He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.
    The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.
    My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.
    My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?” My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.
    Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise. “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene. At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.
    My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.
    JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.
    In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.
    Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.
    They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.
    The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words).
    The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8. There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried. The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there. Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands. One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.
    Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2 mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader's breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).
    They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.
    The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).
    Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.
    Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.
    The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still. JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too. My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.
    Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated. There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened. This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.
    Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ.
    There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through. On her part, her going through the realization that there's something sinister about her past. Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out. My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam's performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn't happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.
    The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue. Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t). The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots. It was a part of the re-editing. Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.
    JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.
    JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story. The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”). JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him. He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by. A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said "what the fuck??" when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.
    JJ's cut still exists and “will always exist”. We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”
    Ok, so there you have it. If there are questions, I will try to follow up with my source but it’s up to them if they want to share more so I cannot guarantee an answer.
    Edit: I forgot one thing that the source wanted included, concerning FinnPoe in TROS:
    The source asked about FinnPoe after seeing Oscar Isaac's comment about how Disney didn't want it to be a thing. This is true. JJ fought to make this happen. This is why Oscar is blaming Disney. It's not just a random throwaway comment. He knows for a fact that it was Disney because these discussions happened. The main cast is insanely close with JJ and are just as pissed, though seemingly more outspoken about it than JJ. During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who's black made them nervous. JJ fought to make that happen for about nine months before getting approval. The same issue came up when JJ fought to have Finn&Poe in TROS but he lost that battle as he lost many creative battles for this film. Many people, JJ included, came to the realization during this production that the story really is told by shareholders/investors instead of the creatives or anyone at Disney specifically. He tried to make a lot of things happen and was shut down because of this. They had him on a leash and many blame TLJ for the stricter creative approach.

    Anyone who tells a story from an "unnamed" source just isn't too be believed....never.

    #4389 4 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    I finally watched some of it yesterday, not all of it, and nope, I didn't pay to see it, I paid to see "Uncut Gems"....So they have light traveling ships with sophisticated jump drives but no one has explored the "unknown region"? But an ancient device the Wayfinder can apparently do that....cool. Palpatine is on an ice planet called planet Excicle, which sounds a lot like icicle....lol! Oh my god. Can someone please explain how Kylo can snatch a physical object on another planet...WTF is that! And Force healing, is that even a thing? I also got to hand it to them for having the balls to kill another original character in a completely shitty way. The best part was Rey stopping a ship midair, (forget the gratuitous backflip to cut the wing off of a Tie Fighter) So let me get this straight, Obi-wan could not stop a radiator thrown at him by Doku but Rey can stop a ship from taking off? Ok, nice! All they need to do now is have Captain Marvel team up with Rey on the next film.
    At this point we walked out to go see uncut Gems, Jesus, I can't believe I walked out of Star Wars to go see Adam Sandler playing a gambling Jewish Jeweler....you can't make this shit up.

    Epic levels of bad storytelling & nonsensical plot holes throughout the entire film. It's a shame you didn't stay until the ending because you missed out on some great laughs. My favorite is probably the Emperor melting his own face off with his own force lightning. If Rey is deflecting it back towards you with her lightsabers (apparently another new thing), just stop shooting it out of your fingers!

    #4390 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The blame game has already started.
    I don't think for a second JJ is "gutted," the man is a hack.
    This is all about whom to blame when the final boxoffice numbers come out and JJ and friends is making a preemptive strike to cover his ass.

    This source leak adds up with a lot of the rumors I read leading up to TROS. I don't doubt any of those behind-the-scenes battles. That "JJ cut" will never see the light of day either, no matter how much Twitterverse whines, because it would make Disney look bad for so heavily interfering with the film. Shit the fans have been asking for a modern HD restoration of the theatrical cuts of the original series for over a decade & that still hasn't happened.

    Look at what they were fighting about.... should Fynn/Poe some out of the closet? Chinese audiences don't like ghosts? How do we limit the screen time of SJW favorite character Rose without enraging them? How do we introduce more ideas for toys that children/fans don't even want to buy? If the film fails to satisfy how can we throw JJ under the bus? What a disaster. Further proof all these people in charge at Disney & Lucasfilm need to be fired. It's a complete miracle these same fools had the restraint to keep there hands off The Mando's production.

    We just have to wait a couple years for the dust to settle. For Iger to move on, for Kennedy to step down, for JJ to cut ties with Disney, for the new trilogy Disney Star Wars Theme Park attractions to draw low attendance & switch them to the Original series themes. For the actors to open up. Then someone will write a good behind-the-scenes book & explain how this entire trilogy was a failure from beginning to end, from movies to merchandising, on & on. It'll be a good read at least.

    In the meantime I'll just be enjoying the Mando & Owiban on Disney+

    #4391 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Shit the fans have been asking for a modern HD restoration of the theatrical cuts of the original series for over a decade & that still hasn't happened.

    Actually I can explain a little of that, two things were working against the theatrical releases.

    George Lucas was one; as far as he was concerned the special editions were his "original vision" that time and money prevented and if you don't like them well too bad so sad.

    The second was Fox still held the distribution rights to just the original Star Wars movie.

    So.. now Disney owns both.

    Word is along with the 9 movie box set that is coming out there is going to be an "archive edition" of the original theater releases.

    #4392 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Word is along with the 9 movie box set that is coming out there is going to be an "archive edition" of the original theater releases.

    They can keep that overpriced Skywalker Saga box set. Just give me the Ep4-6 original theatrical versions remastered in Ultra 4K with Dolby Atmos sound. Those would be an instabuy for me.

    I've had digital copies of the "Harmy Despecialized Editions" for years, which are truly awesome. It's the only way I watch the original movies, but it would sure be nice to have them in 4K with Atmos sound.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmy%27s_Despecialized_Edition

    #4393 4 years ago
    Quoted from oktobernv:

    Taken from a LINK is WESMAN's post above
    GREAT read here that I think a lof of folks might have missed.....
    Here's what I've been told from a source that worked on TROS.
    Long
    Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me. The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.
    The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.
    JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.
    Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year. Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.
    JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars. WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.
    WB wants Abrams for some DC projects. My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC. They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous. Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.
    My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.
    JJ was devastated and blindsided by this. He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story. While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered. My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before. He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.
    Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.
    Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.
    JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.
    JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA. It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.
    JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.
    May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial. He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first. He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.
    The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.
    My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.
    My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?” My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.
    Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise. “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene. At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.
    My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.
    JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.
    In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.
    Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.
    They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.
    The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words).
    The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8. There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried. The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there. Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands. One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.
    Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2 mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader's breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).
    They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.
    The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).
    Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.
    Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.
    The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still. JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too. My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.
    Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated. There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened. This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.
    Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ.
    There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through. On her part, her going through the realization that there's something sinister about her past. Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out. My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam's performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn't happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.
    The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue. Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t). The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots. It was a part of the re-editing. Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.
    JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.
    JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story. The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”). JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him. He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by. A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said "what the fuck??" when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.
    JJ's cut still exists and “will always exist”. We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”
    Ok, so there you have it. If there are questions, I will try to follow up with my source but it’s up to them if they want to share more so I cannot guarantee an answer.
    Edit: I forgot one thing that the source wanted included, concerning FinnPoe in TROS:
    The source asked about FinnPoe after seeing Oscar Isaac's comment about how Disney didn't want it to be a thing. This is true. JJ fought to make this happen. This is why Oscar is blaming Disney. It's not just a random throwaway comment. He knows for a fact that it was Disney because these discussions happened. The main cast is insanely close with JJ and are just as pissed, though seemingly more outspoken about it than JJ. During TFA, Disney was hesitant to hire John Boyega because a woman was front and center so they deemed that risky enough so bringing in a male lead who's black made them nervous. JJ fought to make that happen for about nine months before getting approval. The same issue came up when JJ fought to have Finn&Poe in TROS but he lost that battle as he lost many creative battles for this film. Many people, JJ included, came to the realization during this production that the story really is told by shareholders/investors instead of the creatives or anyone at Disney specifically. He tried to make a lot of things happen and was shut down because of this. They had him on a leash and many blame TLJ for the stricter creative approach.

    Wow, good read. Disney has sure made a mess of things. I can see how JJ really tried as its visible in many TROS scenes. It's a shame Disney didn't trust JJ enough to give him total control of the movie. The original ending with all of the Jedi force ghosts being there in person sounds amazing.

    #4394 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    They can keep that overpriced Skywalker Saga box set. Just give me the Ep4-6 original theatrical versions remastered in Ultra 4K with Dolby Atmos sound. Those would be an instabuy for me.
    I've had digital copies of the "Harmy Despecialized Editions" for years, which are truly awesome. It's the only way I watch the original movies, but it would sure be nice to have them in 4K with Atmos sound.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmy%27s_Despecialized_Edition

    The Despecialized Edition is the only watchable version IMHO of the original theatrical Star Wars release.

    Han shot first damn it.

    #4395 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The blame game has already started.
    I don't think for a second JJ is "gutted," the man is a hack.
    This is all about whom to blame when the final boxoffice numbers come out and JJ and friends is making a preemptive strike to cover his ass.

    I read an article yesterday, about the Box office, and this guy says it may be plausible that Disney needs ep 9 to do almost a billion just to break even, I don't know the theater/studio split. but i'm guessing roughly 50% (supposedly it's higher for domestic than it is for international), it looks like the ticket revenues are even between U.S. and international, about 400 mil each, as of last night. So it's possible that the bulk of the profit for this picture is wrapped up in merchandising. However, they released the picture on Dec 18, to capitalize on the holiday week, but it was probably too late to stoke toy sales for Christmas. We may never know the truth, but watch Disney's stock in the next few months for clues....wall street has a lot of insiders giving them scoops. If the stock rockets higher than we know the profits were good, if it goes down......well you know.

    Edit: I found the article
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/477338-star-wars-disney-skywalker/

    #4396 4 years ago

    Best quote about this movie so far ""rise of skywalker was basically setup to fail before it was even written. like a runner starting a race with two broken legs"

    #4397 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The Despecialized Edition is the only watchable version IMHO of the original theatrical Star Wars release.
    Han shot first damn it.

    Everyone talks about Han shooting first, but actually my favorite fixes are for ROTJ. Replacing the "Lapti Nek" song in Jabbas palace with that horrific swinging dance number was completely ridiculous & out of place. That moment is the low point of the Specialized Editions. IDK WTF Lucas was thinking with that change.

    Also nice to see the iconic Ewoks "Yub Nub" song restored as well. There's an entire generation of kids who haven't had that song haunting them & replaying in their heads for years. What a shame. haha In fact I bought an old copy of the ROTJ soundtrack on vinyl specifically for that song.

    #4398 4 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    So it's possible that the bulk of the profit for this picture is wrapped up in merchandising. However, they released the picture on Dec 18, to capitalize on the holiday week, but it was probably too late to stoke toy sales for Christmas.

    What merchandising? What toys? There wasn't much for toys released for TROS, because the dollar stores are filled with toys that didn't sell for the last two movies. Very little new toys released for TROS. I think a lot more is riding on the performances of the theme parks, which are all heavily based on the new trilogy characters. I'll be very curious to see attendance numbers in 2020 after the super-fans make their early visits. By late 2020, the story will be how new attractions have failed to increase attendance.

    Kids today really don't care about this new trilogy. They're getting dragged to theaters by their parents. Marvel is the new "star wars" for this generation.

    #4399 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Everyone talks about Han shooting first, but actually my favorite fixes are for ROTJ. Replacing the "Lapti Nek" song in Jabbas palace with that horrific swinging dance number was completely ridiculous & out of place. That moment is the low point of the Specialized Editions. IDK WTF Lucas was thinking with that change.
    Also nice to see the iconic Ewoks "Yub Nub" song restored as well. There's an entire generation of kids who haven't had that song haunting them & replaying in their heads for years. What a shame. haha In fact I bought an old copy of the ROTJ soundtrack on vinyl specifically for that song.

    Han shooting first goes to character development so people care about it, but it’s one of the less visually obnoxious changes. There’s so much garbage 90s CGI thrown into Mos Eisley and the Dune Sea search it hurts to watch those segments, and the “new” Jaba scene sucks balls (would be fine as a DVD extra but doesn’t belong in the film). Of course they could do all of those effects much better today, but then we’re back to asking what’s the point?

    When the special editions were coming out in theaters, I remember an interviewer asking Harrison Ford about it and he asked if George was going back in to fix everyone’s haircuts. Pretty much nailed the futility of Lucas’ fixation on modernizing his babies.

    #4400 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Han shooting first goes to character development so people care about it, but it’s one of the less visually obnoxious changes. There’s so much garbage 90s CGI thrown into Mos Eisley and the Dune Sea search it hurts to watch those segments, and the “new” Java scene sucks balls (would be fine as a DVD extra but doesn’t belong in the film). Of course they could do all of those effects much better today, but then we’re back to asking what’s the point?
    When the special editions were coming out in theaters, I remember an interviewer asking Harrison Ford about it and he asked if George were going back in to fix everyone’s haircuts. Pretty much nailed the futility of Lucas’ fixation on modernizing his babies.

    $$$$$

    All these goofy changes surely helped Fox see that they could fund another trilogy. So....who cares? This isn't exactly fucking with Citizen Kane, which is still just a film, no matter how damn excellent it is. Thankfully, that never got colorized.

    It is weird how much the community bitches about those changes, when they ultimately had to have funded further films, and toys. Like Monkey Face Luke!
    PSX_20200103_154101 (resized).jpgPSX_20200103_154101 (resized).jpg

    Sidenote. Wtf is this?!?!?

    Thank God Disney bought the Marvel, Star Wars and Muppets license.

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