(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel

By InfiniteLives

6 years ago


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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 243 votes
      34%
    • decent, better than the prequels 251 votes
      35%
    • really good, on par with the originals 80 votes
      11%
    • great! one of the best 80 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 55 votes
      8%

    (709 votes)

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    #3301 4 years ago
    Quoted from Topher5000:

    Maybe it'll be "Indiana Jones Jr." with Shia LaBeuf.

    Don't count on him being back, he pissed off the wrong people in Hollywood.

    #3302 4 years ago

    if they want to continue Indiana Jones they def need a new person to take over... maybe have Ford be like Sean Connery and either a father or father figure to the new lead... if they go all CGI to make him look younger and stuff it will be real sad imo.

    #3303 4 years ago

    They can have old man Jones reminiscing and fade back to young actor.

    40888318-3C28-4D6A-A30B-338ED4EE1105 (resized).jpeg40888318-3C28-4D6A-A30B-338ED4EE1105 (resized).jpeg

    #3304 4 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    They didn't announce a new one, just an updated release date. It was actually announced almost 3 years ago with a planned 2020 release. It's not a reboot - Spielberg directing with Harrison starring, no Lucas involvement.

    I was discussing this the other day. Everyone cringes at the thought of another Indiana Jones....80 year old Indy adventures in the 1960's. That just sounds awful.

    Here's what I would do. Start the movie with old Harrison Ford telling reminiscing & telling stories of his old adventures to his young grandson. Then make the entire movie a flashback to the 1940's, featuring another adventure of Indiana Jones vs the Nazis. Perhaps the search for lost hidden treasures that Nazis stole during WWII, rumors of hidden map to the Lost City of Atlantis....IDK possibilities are endless.

    The key is you use that anti-aging special effect that they have pretty much perfected in movies now. Just look at that new Wil Smith movie Gemini Man. Make Harrison Ford 40 years old again. Use a body double for all the stunts. Don't recast another actor to play young Indy. Now you have a whole new classic Indy adventure with Harrison Ford that everyone will go crazy for. If anyone can pull that off, it's Speilberg.

    But if they just trot out 80 year old Indy on another swashbuckling ridiculous special effect action adventure, that's a hard pass. The Crystal Skull was just a bridge too far for most fans.

    #3305 4 years ago

    And it's clear from that announcement that Disney is referring to the GOT producers "Old Republic" SW trilogy, with releases in 2022, 2024 & 2026. Those guys are 100% confirmed & that is happening. Those 2-year-apart release dates coincide with a single trilogy.

    If Rian Johnson really had movies that he was working on, they would have announced that too, and they chose not to.

    #3306 4 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    if they go all CGI to make him look younger and stuff it will be real sad imo.

    Get with the times.

    100-digital-dude-wave-of-the-future (resized).jpg100-digital-dude-wave-of-the-future (resized).jpg

    #3307 4 years ago

    I would rather see one more Ford Indy movie with CGI anti-age effects.....instead of seeing the role recast, the whole series rebooted, and Hollywood bastardizing yet another classic franchise in order to make millions. Give Ford one more go & then put the character to rest.

    #3308 4 years ago

    I can't wait to see how Disney fucks up Avatar too!

    #3309 4 years ago

    the anti age CGI i think looks horrible... kurt russel in GoTG2, End Game kirt douglas looked dumb, maybe it was the shitty hair style, i think will smith cgi movie looks real bad too. looks so fake, maybe its just my brain knows its wrong... i dunno but how about we put new blood into this stuff rather than rehash it with 80 year olds ?

    princess leia cgi at the end of rouge one was garbage too imo

    #3310 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    I would rather see one more Ford Indy movie with CGI anti-age effects.....instead of seeing the role recast, the whole series rebooted, and Hollywood bastardizing yet another classic franchise in order to make millions. Give Ford one more go & then put the character to rest.

    It was put to bed in Indy 4.

    One writer had a great insight about Indiana Jones after the last movie. Indy is a wish fulfillment character for guys, like Jame Bond. Who would not want to beat Nazis, get the gold and sleep with the girl?

    No one wants to be geriatric Indy who is dragged down the wedding aisle. Let it go...

    #3311 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    No one wants to be geriatric Indy who is dragged down the wedding aisle. Let it go...

    Yet here we are. Indy 5 is happening. I'm only offering my thoughts on avoiding another train wreck.

    #3312 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    They can have old man Jones reminiscing and fade back to young actor.
    [quoted image]

    Pratt should have been Han Solo. That was my vote - would have been better as Han than the guy in Jurassic

    #3313 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    I was discussing this the other day. Everyone cringes at the thought of another Indiana Jones....80 year old Indy adventures in the 1960's. That just sounds awful.
    Here's what I would do. Start the movie with old Harrison Ford telling reminiscing & telling stories of his old adventures to his young grandson. Then make the entire movie a flashback to the 1940's, featuring another adventure of Indiana Jones vs the Nazis. Perhaps the search for lost hidden treasures that Nazis stole during WWII, rumors of hidden map to the Lost City of Atlantis....IDK possibilities are endless.
    The key is you use that anti-aging special effect that they have pretty much perfected in movies now. Just look at that new Wil Smith movie Gemini Man. Make Harrison Ford 40 years old again. Use a body double for all the stunts. Don't recast another actor to play young Indy. Now you have a whole new classic Indy adventure with Harrison Ford that everyone will go crazy for. If anyone can pull that off, it's Speilberg.
    But if they just trot out 80 year old Indy on another swashbuckling ridiculous special effect action adventure, that's a hard pass. The Crystal Skull was just a bridge too far for most fans.

    Rip the bandaid off - new character completely.

    Bond movies have done it again and again. Just need a charismatic lead actor. Pratt could do it for sure and there are others too. I like the mid 40's Jones that has some aches and pains (been there done that). Josh Holloway is another, Jeremy Renner, Daniel Craig, Idris Elba, Eric Bana, Michael Fassbender, Alexander Skarsgard, Karl Urban, Norman Reedus, Justin Theroux, Jensen Ackles, Jeffrey Dean Morgan.........long list of actors that would fit and could pull it off with a good story.

    What is wrong when they try to reboot some of these movies is they try and make it a "teen thing" by introducing "the next big up and coming 20 something" (IMO why Solo failed).......or they go the girl power route (latest ghostbusters) and or try and make it a political statement about gender or color equality. And no I'm not prejudice in either case. Bridesmaids was funny as hell and Black Panther rocked........because they didn't try and make an in your face politically correct statement.

    Idris Elba would make a f'ing awesome Bond........because he has the swagger Bond needs to be........... Bond.

    Alden Ehrenreich (Solo movie actor) has the charisma of a 13 year old adolescent boy. That's fine if you're going to do Young Indy I guess, but if you're continuing on with Jones as he "was" in the three movies - just get an actor with some chops and charisma and focus on the actual story.

    #3314 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Yet here we are. Indy 5 is happening. I'm only offering my thoughts on avoiding another train wreck.

    Just a shameless money grab, which I have the option of not participating in.

    #3315 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Just a shameless money grab, which I have the option of not participating in.

    Disney is a business to make money and they bought Lucas films to make more movies. Didn't pay George $4B for nothing, they want to make more films and TV shows.

    I am sure they made a mistake with TLJ and Solo but the other two SW films weren't that bad. If JJ can make the last SW film somewhat as good as TFA that's fine.

    I don't think it's a good idea to have 77 year old Harrison Ford in any more action movies. Even when he was in IJ4 I thought he was too old to be having fist fights.

    I would love to see IJ come back with new (younger star like Chris Pratt or some of the names above). I think there is a lot more action adventure stories to be told in the IJ universe just not with 77 year old Ford as the lead.

    #3316 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Disney is a business to make money and they bought Lucas films to make more movies.

    Which I don't disagree with but the reality is from a consumer viewpoint, Indiana Jones with Harrison Ford is done. The last movie was a flop, Ford is older than dirt for action movies and the stories are getting worse not better as franchises will always tend to go.

    The best thing they could do is reboot the franchise with a new story and a new Indy. Indy 4 was the shark jump of the franchise.

    I love Harrison Ford but have no desire to see him as Indiana Jones again. Best to remember him as young Indy drawing his revolver and shooting the guy with the sword rather than old Indy hiding in a 'fridge during an A-bomb test.

    Edit: The problem with Indiana Jones as a franchise is that Harrison Ford *IS* Indiana Jones in my opinion, its a tough act to follow such an iconic figure.

    #3317 4 years ago

    The problem with the Bond example is that there were multiple Bonds virtually right away. Within 11 years he was played by Connery, Niven, Lazenby, and Moore. We EXPECT different Bonds.

    Ford has been Jones and Solo for decades. It makes new casting a little tougher pill to swallow.

    #3318 4 years ago

    so some interesting end game thoughts. i didnt even really take the time to think about the whole 5 year time jump and then snapping back all those people. this article was decent enough in going over some issues that would create:

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/05/04/avengers-endgame-the-5-darkest-consequences-you-didnt-even-consider

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    #3319 4 years ago

    I'm still bitter than Disney shelved Tron3 in favor of Tomorrowland....

    #3320 4 years ago
    Quoted from PersonX99:

    I'm still bitter than Disney shelved Tron3 in favor of Tomorrowland....

    true

    #3321 4 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The problem with Indiana Jones as a franchise is that Harrison Ford *IS* Indiana Jones in my opinion, its a tough act to follow such an iconic figure.

    Quoted from rai:

    I would love to see IJ come back with new (younger star like Chris Pratt or some of the names above). I think there is a lot more action adventure stories to be told in the IJ universe just not with 77 year old Ford as the lead.

    There's two problems:

    1) Ford is so awesome & iconic that is futile to try and replace him. Not just for Indy, but ALL his classic roles. How'd that Solo movie work out again? The whole time everyone watching is thinking this dude is NOTHING like Harrison Ford. Same comparisons will plague whomever they'd pick to play Indy. Even for Chris Pratt. People just will have a hard time accepting it. If I was Pratt I wouldn't touch the role, he's already got plenty of work.

    2) Even if you did recast the role, what would be the story? What would be the adventures? Should they do a complete reboot/remake of Raiders of Lost Ark? Of course not! Do you place him back in the 1940's then? Again it will just be compared to Ford & those classic films, which are preserved in the Library of Congress by the way. You don't remake those movies. Do you update the character to the 21st century then, battling terrorists or something? Give him an assault rifle & ditch the fedora? No that would be the Uncharted video game.

    The problem with Indy is that he is a throwback adventure character from the 40's when he was introduced in the 80's. He was retro before retro was a thing. He uses a whip as a weapon & generally dislikes guns. He's smart & uses his mind to get out of sticky situations. And he's funny & charming to boot. The women love him. Ford nailed it. Impossible task for the next guy.

    Let Ford & Speilberg have their fun (without Lucas this time) and then hang up old Indy's whip for good. And if Disney REALLY wants to peruse the license after Ford is done, they'd be better off moving the franchise to the Disney+ streaming service. Cast a young unknown actor & make another Young Indiana Jones Chronicles TV show. If that takes off after a few seasons & you have a new established fan base, transition to a big budget movie. That could work.

    #3322 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    There's two problems:
    1) Ford is so awesome & iconic that is futile to try and replace him. Not just for Indy, but ALL his classic roles. How'd that Solo movie work out again? The whole time everyone watching is thinking this dude is NOTHING like Harrison Ford. Same comparisons will plague whomever they'd pick to play Indy. Even for Chris Pratt. People just will have a hard time accepting it. If I was Pratt I wouldn't touch the role, he's already got plenty of work.
    2) Even if you did recast the role, what would be the story? What would be the adventures? Should they do a complete reboot/remake of Raiders of Lost Ark? Of course not! Do you place him back in the 1940's then? Again it will just be compared to Ford & those classic films, which are preserved in the Library of Congress by the way. You don't remake those movies. Do you update the character to the 21st century then, battling terrorists or something? Give him an assault rifle & ditch the fedora? No that would be the Uncharted video game.
    The problem with Indy is that he is a throwback adventure character from the 40's when he was introduced in the 80's. He was retro before retro was a thing.
    He uses a whip as a weapon & generally dislikes guns. He's smart & uses his mind to get out of sticky situations. And he's funny & charming to boot. The women love him. Ford nailed it. Impossible task for the next guy.
    Let Ford & Speilberg have their fun (without Lucas this time) and then hang up old Indy's whip for good. And if Disney REALLY wants to peruse the license after Ford is done, they'd be better off moving the franchise to the Disney+ streaming service. Cast a young unknown actor & make another Young Indiana Jones Chronicles TV show. If that takes off after a few seasons & you have a new established fan base, transition to a big budget movie. That could work.

    what are the odds that the new Indiana Jones lead will be a female actress? basically tomb raider with the speilberg touch?

    #3323 4 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    what are the odds that the new Indiana Jones lead will be a female actress? basically tomb raider but with the speilberg touch?

    Well ask the writers/producers how that new female Dr. Who is working out. There's your answer. The worse case example of the SJW/PC movement just destroying a beloved franchise. US fans leaving in droves, show about to be cancelled. Complete & total fan rejection.

    #3324 4 years ago

    I would be happy if they would just stop rebooting movies from our youth.
    Just create something new. If they feel it is their imperative to inject social issues, gender identity etc so be it. No one will be flustered if it is a new product.
    Flavor of the week actors, female substitutions and diversity quotas are just too distracting to me when applied to classic intellectual properties.
    I will pass on the next Star Wars movies. I have no interest in any more Indiana Jones movies. The damage is done, they’ve shown me as a consumer what it is they want to sell.
    Apologies for the negativity, I am all for new and exciting movies and shows to watch.

    #3325 4 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    what are the odds that the new Indiana Jones lead will be a female actress? basically tomb raider with the speilberg touch?

    I'll leave this right here.

    bz-5cd3ba52a4703 (resized).jpegbz-5cd3ba52a4703 (resized).jpeg
    #3326 4 years ago

    The real problem is that Indiana Jones movies were great for their time (in the 80s), but just don't work today. I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark and Temple of Doom as a kid and I enjoy watching them again because of that. But if I try to set aside my nostalgic bias, I have to admit these movies are corny as hell. If Temple of Doom came out today, do you really think it would be a hit?

    10
    #3327 4 years ago

    Saw this on Instagram, had to share it here , made me lol

    Capture+_2019-05-13-08-01-24 (resized).pngCapture+_2019-05-13-08-01-24 (resized).png

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    #3328 4 years ago

    This is pretty slick

    #3329 4 years ago
    Quoted from Hobbypinball:

    This is pretty slick

    Yeah that guy has been teasing that video for awhile. Took him a year to make it I believe. The Obiwan vs Vader fight we've always wanted. Very well done IMO.

    #3330 4 years ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Yeah that guy has been teasing that video for awhile. Took him a year to make it I believe. The Obiwan vs Vader fight we've always wanted. Very well done IMO.

    Do you know how long it took him to make? Too bad George didn't focus on stuff like this in his remakes vs background CGI effects.

    #3331 4 years ago

    Not sure but the creator said a ‘Making of’ video is being released soon.

    #3332 4 years ago

    Meh. Cool fight, but looks completely out of place spliced into the original film. I prefer the original.

    #3333 4 years ago

    That was awesome! I can't believe the creativity some people have. The skills, drive and passion to make this is unreal.

    QSS

    #3334 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    Meh. Cool fight, but looks completely out of place spliced into the original film. I prefer the original.

    Don't know - this comes across as an old man just holding his own against a ruthless cyborg monster. I think it actually fits better and conveys where the two characters are at. Obi understands he has to pass the torch and this fight with Vader only reinforces that - he sees his opportunity with Luke watching and takes it. The original doesn't convey that..........unless you read really deep into steely gazes between a guy in a helmet and an old man.

    The original scene is out of place in all the other movies.......and all other cannon for that matter.

    #3335 4 years ago
    Quoted from Hobbypinball:

    The original scene is out of place in all the other movies.......and all other cannon for that matter.

    And that's part of my problem with the prequels and special editions. Instead of the prequels being made to fit in with the originals, the originals have to constantly be "reimagined" and reworked to fit in with the prequels. It's lazy filmmaking on Lucas' part.

    #3336 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    And that's part of my problem with the prequels and special editions. Instead of the prequels being made to fit in with the originals, the originals have to constantly be "reimagined" and reworked to fit in with the prequels. It's lazy filmmaking on Lucas' part.

    I thought it was a really cool reworking, but agree some parts are over the top. The overlayed dialogue from Ep III is overkill. But really impressive what people can come up with.

    #3337 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    And that's part of my problem with the prequels and special editions. Instead of the prequels being made to fit in with the originals, the originals have to constantly be "reimagined" and reworked to fit in with the prequels. It's lazy filmmaking on Lucas' part.

    I mean ALL the other movies (ESB ROTJ included) and even ANH itself. Vader was a bad ass. Staring at kenobi in that first battle is out of pace with every other single lightsaber duel and every other scene with Vader. The special additions - not sure it was lazy or genius greed. Not saying I liked them at all. But they made a crapload of money and there likely would be no Star Wars now without them. Good or bad, they kept the interest going.

    Call the remakes Stern of the early 2000’s.

    #3338 4 years ago

    I know this is sightly off topic, but I think there will be mich debate as to which was worse; TLJ or GOT Finale. One ruined the greatest movie franchise in history, the other ruined perhaps the greatest tv series in history. I know GOT has had its flaws in the past, but no show is perfect. The production values were the best ever for a tv show, it had an epic story arc in a fantasy setting, diverse settings, memorable characters...don’t want to spoil the ending for anyone that hasn’t seen it...Are these the same people that will be taking over Star Wars?

    #3339 4 years ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    ...I think there will be much debate as to which was worse: TLJ or GOT finale...

    There is no debate for me. I didn't like the GOT finale but nothing that has been put on film and viewed by me is as hated as TLJ. The GOT finale was more like TFA; it was disappointing and not what I wanted but was entertaining enough. TLJ is an abomination.

    #3340 4 years ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    Are these the same people that will be taking over Star Wars?

    its funny how everyone praised them when they were taking the story from the books and making it into the show. Once they got ahead of the books the show went downhill fast. Wouldn't hold out hope that they will be the saviours of star wars unless someone else hammers out a decent script for them to work with.

    #3341 4 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    its funny how everyone praised them when they were taking the story from the books and making it into the show. Once they got ahead of the books the show went downhill fast. Wouldn't hold out hope that they will be the saviours of star wars unless someone else hammers out a decent script for them to work with.

    If the rumors are true that they are doing an Old Republic trilogy, then they will have access to 100s of novels, comics, and games from the Extended Universe to pick & choose from. It’s all right there for them to shape into a story for the movies.

    This would be the complete opposite path Kennedy, Abrams & the rest took, by taking the beloved post-Jedi extended universe stories (Mara Jade, Grand Admiral Thrawn, etc etc) and throwing it all in the trash to push SJW agendas, new lame characters & destroying beloved ones.

    If these GOT producers think they are feeling the heat from disgruntled GOT fans, just wait until they upset StarWars diehards. I hope they learn from their mistakes on GOT & find success.

    #3342 4 years ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    I know this is sightly off topic, but I think there will be mich debate as to which was worse; TLJ or GOT Finale. One ruined the greatest movie franchise in history, the other ruined perhaps the greatest tv series in history. I know GOT has had its flaws in the past, but no show is perfect. The production values were the best ever for a tv show, it had an epic story arc in a fantasy setting, diverse settings, memorable characters...don’t want to spoil the ending for anyone that hasn’t seen it...Are these the same people that will be taking over Star Wars?

    Imo, the GOT finale ended how it was supposed to, you can't expect a happy ending with Snow sitting on the Iron Throne, that's not what his character was telegraphing during the whole run. He was not a power seeker, and his moral compass was the only working one in the whole cast, so naturally he made one final sacrifice by killing his lover and risking his life. Dani's character became the Shakespearean Ceasar "Too ambitious" for the good of Rome and Romans.

    #3343 4 years ago

    To be fair to TLJ, star wars was ruined a long time ago. It's not like it's the first horrible movie in the franchise.

    #3344 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    To be fair to TLJ, star wars was ruined a long time ago. It's not like it's the first horrible movie in the franchise.

    A lot of people liked TFA. Maybe not the best movie but it garnered $900M domestic gross.

    #3345 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    A lot of people liked TFA. Maybe not the best movie but it garnered $900M domestic gross.

    Let’s not correlate domestic gross with “like”...but TFA was decent enough. TLJ was not.

    #3346 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    A lot of people liked TFA. Maybe not the best movie but it garnered $900M domestic gross.

    First Star Wars movie in a long time and a well known director.

    #3347 4 years ago

    The Rise of Skywalker needs to go full-on Wizard of Oz (and I'm not talking about the Jersey Jack pin): in the final scene, they cut to Luke waking up in an Ewok hut on Endor. He's extremely hung-over. Luke looks at C-3PO and says "I just had the strangest 6 six dreams." Blackout. (Not the Williams pin either.)

    #3348 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pimp77:

    Let’s not correlate domestic gross with “like”...but TFA was decent enough. TLJ was not.

    You don’t get to $900M by accident or hype. You get a huge opening weekend and that’s it. But TFA had long legs and people *must have* seen it multiple times. If it was bad word of mouth would have crushed it like Solo and TLJ.

    I liked TFA (some not a lot) and I thought R1 was a good movie. But TLJ was so bad and Solo said to TLJ “hold my beer”.

    #3349 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    But TLJ was so bad and Solo said to TLJ “hold my beer”.

    No fan of Solo; the lead actor was painful to watch but it was a innocuous popcorn flick otherwise.

    Solo ticket sales was fallout from TLJ being so bad.

    #3350 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    You don’t get to $900M by accident or hype. You get a huge opening weekend and that’s it. But TFA had long legs and people *must have* seen it multiple times. If it was bad word of mouth would have crushed it like Solo and TLJ.
    I liked TFA (some not a lot) and I thought R1 was a good movie. But TLJ was so bad and Solo said to TLJ “hold my beer”.

    This is pretty well documented.

    Fans went to see TFA multiple times, since it was the first SW movie in years. General public caught up in the hype too. Shit I saw it 5 times myself on opening weekend, which I will admit was completely excessive. It wasn't until later when I realized it really wasn't a great movie & the characters were unappealing, but fans were still hyped because well...just wait for Luke in Episode 8!

    R1 was a great movie & well supported by fans. Didn't make as much TFA, as characters were unfamiliar to the general public. But it proved that a SW spin-off movie could be successful, if it was done right.

    The worm turned for TLJ. Fans obviously revolted, didn't go multiple times like TFA. Bad word of mouth prevented huge box office numbers. The fan resentment only grew worse after the release of the movie. Disney realized they may have a big problem on their hands.

    Six months later with that bitter taste still fresh, Solo releases. The story that really didn't need to be told, with a well publicized troubled production & a lousy lead actor filling an iconic role. Fans flat out rejected it & it bombed. Disney sticks head in the sand, blames "too many SW movie releases", scuttles plans for all future spin-offs.

    Fast forward to 2019. The hype train for Episode 9 is practically non-existent. Majority of fans don't care about how the story ends, some even plan to boycott Episode 9 completely. Disney just puts head down & wants to get through this. Just move on to next trilogy after a huge upcoming 3 year layoff. Focus on smaller scale SW TV shows in the meantime until they reassess & reboot the properties & studios.

    The only thing that can help Episode 9 is a big boost from The Mandalorian TV show, which releases about a month before Episode 9. It should get the fans excited about SW again, because unlike these new movies, this show to catered to the 40 year old fans & looks very promising. That might happen, until fans realize oh yeah, they killed Luke & these movies blow. Yeah sorry but no thanks.

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