(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel


By InfiniteLives

2 years ago



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    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 209 votes
      33%
    • decent, better than the prequels 237 votes
      37%
    • really good, on par with the originals 76 votes
      12%
    • great! one of the best 72 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 42 votes
      7%

    (636 votes)

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    #3001 10 months ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    If they ignore Rey's parentage, the Mary Sue makes no sense.

    If they ignore Luke's grumpy meltdown, then they assassinated their best character for no reason, and with no storyline.

    I hate to say it but there is no "If", they did write that clusterfuck. I mean the fact that laymen like us are taking apart their story narrative is proof enough how amateurish this story has unfolded. If any of the stuff you've mentioned does ever materialize in ep 9 I'm betting it's because they're working backwards trying to repair the damage. Perhaps another reason why Kiri Hart was canned, someone must've read all of these fan commentaries, vitriol and came to the conclusion that the people in charge of the story are better suited for Nickelodeon than one of the biggest movie franchise in history

    #3002 10 months ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    I want to believe they will try and fix this mess, but they have boxed themselves in from a storytelling perspective. I feel like this last episode will be fairly predictable, because they just don't have many more story options left.

    This is the entire problem with Episode 9. They are really boxed into a corner.

    If they decide to make Rey Luke's daughter, it's just not going to make any sense when relating back to Episode 8. Luke just completely forgot he had a daughter? No that's just NOT possible. He had absolutely no clue who she was in Episode 8. Even being told she was from Jakuu meant nothing to him. She was dumped on Jakuu when she was what, like 6 years old? Where was she all that time from birth that Luke didn't know? When Han was offering her a job in Episode 7, I always had the sense that he MIGHT have suspected who she was, and wanted to keep her close to him, but he wasn't letting on. Leia again had no clue who she was either. I mean Luke & Leia are siblings & can speak to each other with the force (ex on Bespin, Luke calls out to Leia while dangling beneath Cloud City), but they can't even sense their own blood standing right in front of them in Episode 7 & 8? It's just a mess. This is why you don't let 3 directors tell a singular story.

    The only way I see it: Mara Jade had just become pregnant with Rey at the Jedi Academy, but Luke had no idea yet. She tells Ben Solo that's she's going to surprise him with the news tonight. Ben becomes intensely jealous of this new Skywalker offspring, and this is the spark that allows the dark side to call to him. Luke senses Ben is turning to the dark side & the first seeds of uncertainty creep into Luke's mind, he panics at the thought of the Sith returning. He tells Mara, who is repulsed by Luke's dark thoughts & wanting to kill his own nephew. She tells him he's wrong, that he's actually the one who is turning to the dark side. Luke panics, and then attempts to kill Ben in his sleep. Ben becomes enraged at this & turns to the dark side fully, becoming Kylo. He and his fellow trainees (the Knights of Ren) turn on their master & defeat a broken-willed Luke, burning the whole Academy down. Mara sees all this & flees, knowing she was wrong & that Kylo is going to come after her & her unborn child Rey.

    Mara disappears & has the child, but Luke is now a broken man & disappears himself. He has no clue Mara was pregnant. He gives the missing piece of the map to Lor San Tekka, and tells him if Mara ever changes her mind, she can find him on Ach-To. He wants to be completely left alone, because he is a failure & cuts himself off from everything & everyone. Kylo & the Knights of Ren are recruited by Snoke. They know Mara was pregnant, but they have no clue of the details, or where Luke or Mara are. When Rey is around 6 or so, they get close to catching her, so Mara dumps Rey on Jakuu. She tells Han Solo & Lando just so someone knows where Luke's daughter is hidden, and perhaps this also ties into why the Millennium Falcon was hidden on Jakuu as well. Mara flees to Tatooine & remains hidden, promising that she will return someday for Rey.

    There's your backstory for flashbacks. THIS is what Episode 8 should have been with Luke, Mara & Rey all reuniting at the end. Episode 9 would have been the final battle between the reunited Skywalker family vs Snoke, Kylo & the Knight of Ren. A personal family story of redemption, instead of more rebellion vs first order nonsense & exploding planets & super-weapons. We got a huge smoldering pile of shit.

    So now in the current smoldering pile of plot holes & bad writing, they will attempt to fix it in Episode 9. It's going to be an impossible task. No matter what they do, there are just too many inconsistencies to tie it all together nicely. The countless worthless characters (Finn, Rose, Poe, Hux, DJ, etc) have to be demoted to the 3rd string characters they truly are. To make this work, they have to have at least a third of Episode 9 be flashbacks & plot hole filling. I still firmly believe that Mara will be the key to tie everything together. Rey & friends will piece together the clues in a race to find her before Kylo Ren does. Going to Tatooine, getting info from the Hutts, tracking down Lando's info on Mara, etc etc. I have not read ANY spoilers for Episode 9, so I really have absolutly no clue what they are planning to do. I don't even know if someone was cast as Mara Jade.

    That said, somebody at Lucasfilm should hire me. This shit is not difficult to come up with.

    #3003 10 months ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Perhaps another reason why Kiri Hart was canned, someone must've read all of these fan commentaries, vitriol and came to the conclusion that the people in charge of the story are better suited for Nickelodeon than one of the biggest movie franchise in history

    This is a $$$ business, if they're firing people it's not because of people whining on message boards or writing fan fiction, it's because Disney thinks money was left on the table and someone else is better suited to vacuum it up for them.

    #3004 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    That said, somebody at Lucasfilm should hire me. This shit is not difficult to come up with.

    I agree with you, and this is what confuses me so much.

    The greatest franchise in movie history, a multi-billion dollar empire, the legendary Disney Corporation and its legacy of IMAGINATION, and we get TLJ. Disconnected from the original Star Wars emotionally, relationaly, factually, culturally, logic problems, plot holes...how do you not put your best and brightest minds to work on it? By all measures Disney's board of directors should be genius level minds. The studio heads should be savvy, refined, accomplished, and some of the greatest minds in the industry. The writers must be accomplished and successful. I seriously thin amateurs are developing far superior ideas on internet message boards.

    I want to see the documentary "TLJ: The Making of a Movie and Unmaking of a Franchise"

    #3005 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    This is a $$$ business, if they're firing people it's not because of people whining on message boards or writing fan fiction, it's because Disney thinks money was left on the table and someone else is better suited to vacuum it up for them.

    No shit, the backlash resulted in money being left on the table.....but they had to investigate the why.

    #3006 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    That said, somebody at Lucasfilm should hire me. This shit is not difficult to come up with.

    Somebody get this guy in touch with Disney!

    #3007 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    This is why you don't let 3 directors tell a singular story.

    I never understood why they did this! Not to mention why not have the whole story (trilogy) written before you start anything!

    #3008 10 months ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    No shit, the backlash resulted in money being left on the table.....but they had to investigate the why.

    Glad to hear you're realistic about it, my impression is that many aren't and have a "wahoo, we got her fired!" perspective that's not tethered to what actually drives ticket sales and therefore decision-making in the movie business. One other thought -- with only a single person fired, it's always possible that she just didn't get along with someone more important (e.g. JJ). If there were a wave of firings it would be easier to conclude that Disney's intentionally changing direction.

    #3009 10 months ago

    well, funny you should bring up the relationship with JJ, there are stories on the net that corroborate that theory. It might not have been just one incident, there were stories about Phil Lord and Chris Miller knocking heads with the studio regarding the story, then there is Trevorrow firing about disagreements again regarding the story and IIRC Luke's arc. I don't know who they meant by the studio, we all assumed it was KK but in hindsight the person in charge of the story was Kiri Hart.....but it's all speculation, the only fact we have is that she was fired.

    #3010 10 months ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    No shit, the backlash resulted in money being left on the table.....but they had to investigate the why.

    When a business entity becomes converged, the quality of product becomes secondary.

    Disney is willing to lose money here, just not too much.

    You don't think someone didn't state "The Last Jedi is kind of crappy." during test screenings? They released it anyway.

    #3011 10 months ago

    Prior to The Last Jedi, I was thinking they were going to mirror the Legacy of the Force (LotF). This is the story of Jacen Solo, a conflicted character, who isn't fully light or dark. He reminded me a lot of Ben. Like Ben, Jace began his training as a Jedi, but choose the dark side after seeing a vision where if he continues on his current path he would ultimately destroy Luke. In choosing the dark side, Jacen became the apprentice of Lumiya, the Dark Lady of the Sith, and former apprentice of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader. She told Jacen that he must make a sacrifice to become a Sith Lord, killing that which he loved. His choice is to sacrifice his parents. I'm skipping some key plot stuff here, but once the sacrifice is made, Lumiya completed his training and Jacen becomes Darth Caedus. To me that seems to be about where we're at between Snoke and Kylo Ren at the end of Episode VII.

    #3012 10 months ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    Prior to The Last Jedi, I was thinking they were going to mirror the Legacy of the Force (LotF). This is the story of Jacen Solo, a conflicted character, who isn't fully light or dark. He reminded me a lot of Ben. Like Ben, Jace began his training as a Jedi, but choose the dark side after seeing a vision where if he continues on his current path he would ultimately destroy Luke. In choosing the dark side, Jacen became the apprentice of Lumiya, the Dark Lady of the Sith, and former apprentice of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader. She told Jacen that he must make a sacrifice to become a Sith Lord, killing that which he loved. His choice is to sacrifice his parents. I'm skipping some key plot stuff here, but once the sacrifice is made, Lumiya completed his training and Jacen becomes Darth Caedus. To me that seems to be about where we're at between Snoke and Kylo Ren at the end of Episode VII.

    Yes they definitely pulled Jacen Solo plot points from the expanded universe to create the Kylo Ren character. They briefly touched on Luke's Academy, etc. It's such a shame that they didn't adapt more of it (like Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Unknown regions, the return of the Empire, Mara Jade, on & on). Such a wealth of 30+ years of storytelling, just completely ignored or relegated to cartoons/comic books. Such poor decisions.

    This just boils down to egos IMO. Disney directors & writers did not want to be beholden to fan favorite books & characters that 95% of the movie going public had no clue about & they didn't want to be tied down creatively. That goes for Lucas' story outlines as well. They had their own agenda & they were going to do it their way. Rian Johnson just took that mantra to a whole other level for Episode 8, and purposely set out to create his own vision that would divide audiences.....fans be damned.

    #3013 10 months ago

    I will say this, it has been fun brainstorming what Episode 9 might be. Curious to hear anyone else thoughts on this. Much better discussion than griping about the people running Lucasfilm or repeating our disappointments

    I did a little poking around this afternoon & read up on some rumors. Of course none of them can be verified yet, so it's all speculation & could all be bullshit, but stop reading if you don't want to know anything. I love discussing this stuff with friends.

    ***SPOILER???***

    One interesting theory I read sounded very believable, although I could have some of it wrong. Time has passed since the last film ended. The resistance is defeated, desperately trying to rebuild. Kylo Ren is now a fully trained matured Sith Lord & rules the galaxy with an iron fist. He has a entire private army of red Sith troopers who only answer to him & his Knights. It's revealed that the Knights of Ren were dispatched to a place called The Beyond, and now they have returned & revealed a new threat to his rule. Something about The Acolytes, a Sith worshiping cult, that can communicate & summon Sith ghosts, using relics. One such relic they have in their possession is Vader's lightsaber, and Kylo has Vader's helmet. Can force ghosts be summoned into the real world with these artifacts? Is this the gateway for Luke, Owiban & Yoda to return? Vader & the Emperor? I don't know but it sure sounds more compelling than Rebels fighting stormtroopers, boring chases & running out of gas, blowing up planets & death stars over & over. It does sound similar to the relic hunter storyline that was dropped early in the production of Episode 7 though. Maybe they are chasing & looking for Jedi relics to bring back Luke for one final battle? Could you imagine Hayden Christensen Anakin ghost facing off against his Vader ghost? Haha I mean go for broke here & jump the shark. I mean they officially made time travel possible in the Rebels cartoon, so anything is possible. If this is TRULY the end of the Skywalker story line, then they need to go out with a bang. Who cares at this point. Make the fans happy.

    ***END OF SPOILER***

    Speaking of that, it's going to be very interesting in 5 weeks when Star Wars Celebration begins in Chicago. All those panels & discussions for the fans, releasing the first trailer & details about the movie and getting the hype machine rolling.... How will the disgruntled fans who were betrayed by Episode 8 & rejected Solo react to all of this? How will Disney react to their vocal concerns & displeasure during open-mike panels? People who go to Celebration are passionate fans. This is the first time they can vent directly to the people in charge in a public forum since before Episode 8 hit theaters, and it will all be streamed live on the internet. Will KK & Rian Johnson show their faces? Will they acknowledge they made mistakes & are trying to make things right? Or will it be more of the same egos & nothing-to-see-here attitudes? It will be interesting to say the least.

    #3014 10 months ago

    This isn't an idea for Episode IX, exactly, but I'd love to see an SNL spoof-trailer where Rey and Kylo team up, BlacKKKlansman style, to infiltrate an all-male Sith organization (let's call it the "Order of Augusta,") with Rey working the transmitter and Kylo providing the beard for in-person meetings.

    #3015 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Glad to hear you're realistic about it, my impression is that many aren't and have a "wahoo, we got her fired!" perspective

    I view her canning to be attune to what a college football team does when a coach that has won for them in years past has a bad season, blame the coordinators and fire them...if there is another bad season they fire the coach. After episode IX bombs, KK will be canned in my view.

    I wonder how much JJ was paid to do episode IX. Had to be crazy money...he has to realize he’s in a no win situation and he’s in danger of being the fall guy for KK and RJ...

    #3016 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Yes they definitely pulled Jacen Solo plot points from the expanded universe to create the Kylo Ren character. They briefly touched on Luke's Academy, etc. It's such a shame that they didn't adapt more of it (like Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Unknown regions, the return of the Empire, Mara Jade, on & on). Such a wealth of 30+ years of storytelling, just completely ignored or relegated to cartoons/comic books. Such poor decisions.
    This just boils down to egos IMO. Disney directors & writers did not want to be beholden to fan favorite books & characters that 95% of the movie going public had no clue about & they didn't want to be tied down creatively. That goes for Lucas' story outlines as well. They had their own agenda & they were going to do it their way. Rian Johnson just took that mantra to a whole other level for Episode 8, and purposely set out to create his own vision that would divide audiences.....fans be damned.

    I thought they should have made Ray more into the Allana. Not Ben's daughter of course, but still that would have kept us in that universe.

    #3018 10 months ago

    https://cosmicbook.news/captain-marvel-review-cold-disappointment-unworthy

    The French website Avoir Alire has posted their Captain Marvel review giving it one out of five stars noting (translated via Bing), "A monolithic heroine whose feminist struggle seems to be the only reason to exist. The result, without emotion, is closer to the silliness of a shortcut in time than a traditional Avenger."

    The review (again translated) goes on to mention how the titular character makes it clear she doesn't need the help of men, with Brie Larson's acting said to be cold and compared to that of an android. It's said Larson doesn't manage the slightest of an iconic pose, and that she is not sexy in the costume: "since the game of seduction is sexist and therefore irrelevant in the film."

    It's also said Captain Marvel's big "Superman" moment when she first flies is lacking and that Brie Larson and her powers "leave us totally cold. "The reviewer goes on to note that the film is heavily influenced by "societal transition" which first showed up in Hollywood, including scandals such as the Harvey Weinstein affair. "Everything is written to signify the need for emancipation of the woman in a patriarchal world," the Captain Marvel review states.

    The super powers of Captain Marvel are going to make talk. A lot. At first she is very powerful. In the end, she is simply ... invincible? Not a scratch in two hours of time. This poses many questions.

    Called it.

    #3019 10 months ago

    Looks horrible.

    What’s next Tony Stark will be hit with a sexual harassment suite? I am sure if we look back into IM 1 or 2 there was some sexually inappropriate moments (shame).

    #3020 10 months ago

    Finally broke down and watched Avengers Infinity War and Solo on Netflix last night (let's just say there was a lot of laundry to fold).

    I was pleasantly surprised by Avengers. There was a fair amount of obligatory face time for the cast of thousands they needed to squeeze in, but they generally made smart choices about focusing in on a subset of the teams, and the Guardians provided enough legitimate humor to keep it from ever feeling like a slog the way Age of Ultron did. It moved along nicely for a 2.5 hour film, and I'm looking forward to the sequel, may even see it in the theaters.

    Solo on the other hand was underwhelming. Alden Ehrenreich may be a decent actor but he was a poor choice for the role and gave far too tentative of a performance. I just never felt like I was watching a young version of the guy we meet in the Cantina in Ep. IV. The establishing 20 minutes felt generic and almost led me to bail on the movie. Things didn't really get going until Lando turned up -- Donald Glover stole the movie, he totally inhabited that role and made me wish I was watching a young Lando movie instead. Or that they'd taken as much care (or got as lucky) casting the Han part. I enjoyed Woodie's part as well. But their performances couldn't save a very mediocre movie. Beyond the glaring problem that any prequel faces -- the story is presumptively pointless because we already know exactly where all of the characters we care about will end up -- they made a number of bad calls along the way (e.g. Lando's cloyingly activist droid, Han throwing his lot in with rebels he hardly knew more readily than he did with Luke and co. in Ep. IV, and the atrocious wookie masks in the mines). Definitely not as entertaining as TLJ -- which despite it's many flaws I was never tempted to walk out on -- and not something I'd see again.

    #3021 10 months ago

    IMO Disney is not sorry it bought SW franchise.

    Mostly the movies are a hit, I don’t mean ‘Avatar like’ hit but $5B gross for 4 movies. Two theme lands opening in Disneyland and Disney World. Plus the 9th installment of the main SW franchise which I predict will be above TLJ can we agree that JJ >>> Rain Johnson.

    Then the Disney streaming will be out soon with new content needed.

    #3022 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Finally broke down and watched Avengers Infinity War and Solo on Netflix last night (let's just say there was a lot of laundry to fold).
    I was pleasantly surprised by Avengers. There was a fair amount of obligatory face time for the cast of thousands they needed to squeeze in, but they generally made smart choices about focusing in on a subset of the teams, and the Guardians provided enough legitimate humor to keep it from ever feeling like a slog the way Age of Ultron did. It moved along nicely for a 2.5 hour film, and I'm looking forward to the sequel, may even see it in the theaters.
    Solo on the other hand was underwhelming. Alden Ehrenreich may be a decent actor but he was a poor choice for the role and gave far too tentative of a performance. I just never felt like I was watching a young version of the guy we meet in the Cantina in Ep. IV. The establishing 20 minutes felt generic and almost led me to bail on the movie. Things didn't really get going until Lando turned up -- Donald Glover stole the movie, he totally inhabited that role and made me wish I was watching a young Lando movie instead. Or that they'd taken as much care (or got as lucky) casting the Han part. I enjoyed Woodie's part as well. But their performances couldn't save a very mediocre movie. Beyond the glaring problem that any prequel faces -- the story is presumptively pointless because we already know exactly where all of the characters we care about will end up -- they made a number of bad calls along the way (e.g. Lando's cloyingly activist droid, Han throwing his lot in with rebels he hardly knew more readily than he did with Luke and co. in Ep. IV, and the atrocious wookie masks in the mines). Definitely not as entertaining as TLJ -- which despite it's many flaws I was never tempted to walk out on -- and not something I'd see again.

    I mentioned the same thing to my wife after we saw this movie, it would've been better if it was just a movie about Lando and how he lost the flacon and Han could've been the cameo. Probably would've been more of a comedy but probably would've watched that more than once.

    #3023 10 months ago

    Ok am I just dense or do people actually play cards like that? I mean playing for $$$$$$$$ big stacks and not really worry about cheating or someone betting a ship they don’t own. I’ll just take the word of a complete stranger that you have a multi $$$$ ship.

    #3024 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Solo on the other hand was underwhelming. Definitely not as entertaining as TLJ -- which despite it's many flaws I was never tempted to walk out on -- and not something I'd see again.

    Solo is a mediocre popcorn adventure, which could have been so much better if they had cast anyone else as Han Solo. The excellent supporting characters are what carry that movie. They did a decent job explaining all the Solo backstory lore too like the Kessle Run, The Maw, Sabbac gambling, etc. Even Lando's subtitle mispronunciation of "Han" was a nice reference. Lando's robot was especially grating though, but it died & now it's the non-speaking navi-computer of the Falcon, so I can live with that.

    At least there is an actual adventure story plot, instead of just watching grumpy hermits, animal rights activists, and spaceships running out of gas in TLJ. That movie is NOT entertaining. If you can get past Ehrenreich's poor acting, Solo is actually quite enjoyable. Definitely growing on me.

    #3025 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Solo is a mediocre popcorn adventure, which could have been so much better if they had cast anyone else as Han Solo.

    It was a fairly innocuous popcorn flick that suffered from coming out after The Last Jedi and the lead actor was nothing like Harrison Ford.

    They tried to explain far too much about Han's back story, better to leave something to the imagination of the viewer.

    -1
    #3026 10 months ago

    I’m gonna say it straight out. Fuck Brie Larson and her man hating agenda.

    I really despise the possibility that I’ve enjoyed 10 years of build up only to have it smashed by bigotry driven politics. I’ll watch Endgame (stupid name BTW) but I’m done with Marvel after this. Politics aside, what else is there to do? How do you top Thanos? Another ten year build up to what?....Galactus.

    CE30C921-27A9-4050-BA65-191A8073D9B3 (resized).jpeg
    #3027 10 months ago
    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    If you can get past Ehrenreich's poor acting

    Maybe that's the key stumbling block for me, I really couldn't. I don't know for sure that it was his fault, could have been the writing/directing, but whatever it was they missed the essence of the Han character at a fundamental level. Given that he's the lead, that was a fatal flaw.

    Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

    Even Lando's subtitle mispronunciation of "Han" was a nice reference.

    Definitely a highlight -- Donald Glover totally nailed the Lando role!

    (BTW I didn't expect the rest of you guys to agree with me that it was worse than TLJ, it's just that I thought that one was kind of so-so and found Solo to be even less enjoyable).

    #3028 10 months ago

    I don't know anything about the drama regarding Captain Marvel, but I've still been enjoying the vast majority of the Marvel and Star Wars movies that Disney has been making. On the Marvel side of things, the only films I have not enjoyed were a few of the filler films like Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy with the direction they have been taking things. In terms of Star Wars, The Last Jedi was pretty awful, but I actually quite enjoyed Rogue One and Solo. Not on par with the original trilogy, but certainly better the the prequel trilogy. If you stuck with Star Wars though the "Lucas changes", Phantom Menace, and Attack of the Clones; I can't imagine bailing now. In my opinion that was still the low point for Star Wars.

    #3029 10 months ago
    Quoted from dtown:

    I’m gonna say it straight out. Fuck Brie Larson and her man hating agenda.

    I'll point out someone picked Brie for the role (She has a 5 movie contract no less), this is coming from the top down.

    Disney is perfectly good with it or she would have been shut up already.

    The same forces that were at work on The Last Jedi are at work on the M.C.U.

    Iger has publicly stated this is the direction Disney is going.

    #3030 10 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    https://cosmicbook.news/captain-marvel-review-cold-disappointment-unworthy
    The French website Avoir Alire has posted their Captain Marvel review giving it one out of five stars noting (translated via Bing), "A monolithic heroine whose feminist struggle seems to be the only reason to exist. The result, without emotion, is closer to the silliness of a shortcut in time than a traditional Avenger."
    The review (again translated) goes on to mention how the titular character makes it clear she doesn't need the help of men, with Brie Larson's acting said to be cold and compared to that of an android. It's said Larson doesn't manage the slightest of an iconic pose, and that she is not sexy in the costume: "since the game of seduction is sexist and therefore irrelevant in the film."
    It's also said Captain Marvel's big "Superman" moment when she first flies is lacking and that Brie Larson and her powers "leave us totally cold. "The reviewer goes on to note that the film is heavily influenced by "societal transition" which first showed up in Hollywood, including scandals such as the Harvey Weinstein affair. "Everything is written to signify the need for emancipation of the woman in a patriarchal world," the Captain Marvel review states.
    The super powers of Captain Marvel are going to make talk. A lot. At first she is very powerful. In the end, she is simply ... invincible? Not a scratch in two hours of time. This poses many questions.
    Called it.

    It's a bit of a stretch to have to go to France to have a bad review - I've read about a dozen reviews today, all of which were either very positive, or generally positive.

    #3031 10 months ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    It's a bit of a stretch to have to go to France to have a bad review - I've read about a dozen reviews today, all of which were either very positive, or generally positive.

    Yes, but how many of those generally positive reviews included phrases like this: "The result, without emotion, is closer to the silliness of a shortcut in time than a traditional Avenger."

    Of course you could just go to San Francisco -- yes, San Francisco -- to find a bad review, but it appears to be an actual review of the movie rather than a rant about the star's rants about the patriarchy, so perhaps is lacking in that regard.
    https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/movies-tv/review-captain-marvel-is-a-fine-hero-but-shes-not-wonder-woman

    #3032 10 months ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    It's a bit of a stretch to have to go to France to have a bad review - I've read about a dozen reviews today, all of which were either very positive, or generally positive.

    I hope it's good, I have bunch of Disney stock plus I like Marvel movies.

    here's one headline that don't like it though:

    Captain Mary Sue
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/captain-marvel-movie-review-dull-directionless/

    #3033 10 months ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    It's a bit of a stretch to have to go to France to have a bad review - I've read about a dozen reviews today, all of which were either very positive, or generally positive.

    It was released first in France.

    #3034 10 months ago

    If Disney admitted episode 8 was the disaster it was, and said we are going to undo that pile of garbage and make a different version, how much would they lose (or gain) in the end?

    #3035 10 months ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    It's a bit of a stretch to have to go to France to have a bad review - I've read about a dozen reviews today, all of which were either very positive, or generally positive

    I think many people simply lack confidence in the American reviewers...many people feel the American reviewers are either bought and paid for wiry advertising dollars or are scared of being locked out of early screenings if they give a Disney movie a poor review. Also, it was released first in France I believe, hence the French review.

    I’m not condemning this movie before it is released, perhaps it will surprise me, but I’m concerned about it as so many are...and I’m not interested enough the character to go see it in theaters.

    #3036 10 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    I think many people simply lack confidence in the American reviewers...many people feel the American reviewers are either bought and paid for wiry advertising dollars or are scared of being locked out of early screenings if they give a Disney movie a poor review. Also, it was released first in France I believe, hence the French review.
    I’m not condemning this movie before it is released, perhaps it will surprise me, but I’m concerned about it as so many are...and I’m not interested enough the character to go see it in theaters.

    Did you read the SF Chronicle review I linked? If Disney paid for that review, they may not feel they got their money’s worth. Though if you prefer a culture-warrior lense in your movie reviews the French one may be more to your liking.

    #3037 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Though if you prefer a culture-warrior lense in your movie reviews the French one may be more to your liking.

    If one paid attention to those involved in the production, the actors and actress chosen, their public utterances and the trailers you can get a fairly good idea which way the wind is going to blow when the movie is released.

    It would be wise to take some "official" reviews with a grain of salt, you just have to look at Ghostbusters 2016 and The Last Jedi for examples.

    Everything I saw indicated the movie was going to be problematic, this is confirmed by both the less than positive reviews and those who are praising it and the verbiage utilized.

    #3038 10 months ago

    Just out of curiosity, I went to see what Rotten Tomatoes has to say about TLJ this far after its release...

    Went to the RT and found the home page for TLJ:

    Critics Score: 91%
    Audience Score: 44%

    Top critics ratings - 12 out of 13 shown are fresh
    Top fan reviews - 3 out of 4 shown are positive (4/5 stars or better)

    3 out of the 4 displayed metrics were very positive, despite the massive backlash, constant declines in both critics and audience scores, and shockwaves sent through the industry. On opening weekend of TLJ, it had a 95% critic rating...I just don't trust the critics anymore. Their web pages are dependent on advertising money from the movie studios, it looks like a conflict of interest, and the opening week reviews are suspiciously positive. Captain Marvel is an 84% right now, and that seems to suggest a pretty good movie to me, not a deeply flawed one. Let's wait and see it I guess, but I have zero trust in the critics anymore. Critics used to nitpick movies to death, were almost jerks about it. But you wanted a critical perspective in a review, not studio fanboy propaganda. It used to be we were the judges of whether you thought a critic went too far in their criticism, now we are the judges that they are outright promoting bad movies. The internet has brought about a collapse in media quality and quantity across the board, I guess.

    It makes it hard to decide which movies to see when you can't trust the critics, and the media hype machine over-promotes every new blockbuster as the "film of the generation." I find am just avoiding all of the blockbusters in the theater altogether, watching the movies at home on a torrent, then if I like it I will pay for a copy and support it. I still want to support great art, and films can be that.

    #3039 10 months ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    The internet has brought about a collapse in media quality and quantity across the board, I guess

    The internet has exposed Hollywood.

    I remember one film studio bitching that if they had a bomb they could slip it into theaters and make most of their money back before the public was aware the movie was a stinker. Now people are tweeting as soon as the movie was over and the public found out right away!

    So of course the studios are going to do everything in their power to change this. The biggest being getting the hype spun up so they make as many bucks as possible opening night, hence the review blackouts and projected "opening weekend totals" hype.

    #3040 10 months ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    Just out of curiosity, I went to see what Rotten Tomatoes has to say about TLJ this far after its release...
    Went to the RT and found the home page for TLJ:
    Critics Score: 91%
    Audience Score: 44%
    Top critics ratings - 12 out of 13 shown are fresh
    Top fan reviews - 3 out of 4 shown are positive (4/5 stars or better)
    3 out of the 4 displayed metrics were very positive, despite the massive backlash, constant declines in both critics and audience scores, and shockwaves sent through the industry. On opening weekend of TLJ, it had a 95% critic rating...I just don't trust the critics anymore. Their web pages are dependent on advertising money from the movie studios, it looks like a conflict of interest, and the opening week reviews are suspiciously positive. Captain Marvel is an 84% right now, and that seems to suggest a pretty good movie to me, not a deeply flawed one. Let's wait and see it I guess, but I have zero trust in the critics anymore. Critics used to nitpick movies to death, were almost jerks about it. But you wanted a critical perspective in a review, not studio fanboy propaganda. It used to be we were the judges of whether you thought a critic went too far in their criticism, now we are the judges that they are outright promoting bad movies. The internet has brought about a collapse in media quality and quantity across the board, I guess.
    It makes it hard to decide which movies to see when you can't trust the critics, and the media hype machine over-promotes every new blockbuster as the "film of the generation." I find am just avoiding all of the blockbusters in the theater altogether, watching the movies at home on a torrent, then if I like it I will pay for a copy and support it. I still want to support great art, and films can be that.

    I personally think it's a bit overblown in regards to their being some sort of a financial conspiracy to critics posting positive reviews of TLJ. First - I'd be curious out of those "top critics", how many would even describe themselves as casual Star Wars fans, much less "normal" Star Wars fans? It's hard to view the movie through the eyes of someone that has no real connection to Star Wars. I could be very wrong - perhaps most of those "top critics" were indeed at least somewhat versed in Star Wars.

    But in terms of real-life experience - I watched TLJ on opening night at the theater - completely full. At the end of the movie, almost the entire theater applauded. My wife thought the movie was "enjoyable", and my 9 year old thought it was the best Star Wars movie ever (and they've watched them all). When it was over, initially I thought it was pretty enjoyable overall, for maybe 5 minutes until my brain realized how they screwed the whole story up, answered nothing, and left no anticipation for IX. So based on that, I can see how the movie itself could get initial positive reviews, and it not be a conspiracy or biased.

    #3041 10 months ago
    Quoted from tl54hill:

    Just out of curiosity, I went to see what Rotten Tomatoes has to say about TLJ this far after its release...
    Went to the RT and found the home page for TLJ:
    Critics Score: 91%
    Audience Score: 44%
    Top critics ratings - 12 out of 13 shown are fresh
    Top fan reviews - 3 out of 4 shown are positive (4/5 stars or better)
    3 out of the 4 displayed metrics were very positive, despite the massive backlash, constant declines in both critics and audience scores, and shockwaves sent through the industry. On opening weekend of TLJ, it had a 95% critic rating...I just don't trust the critics anymore. Their web pages are dependent on advertising money from the movie studios, it looks like a conflict of interest, and the opening week reviews are suspiciously positive. Captain Marvel is an 84% right now, and that seems to suggest a pretty good movie to me, not a deeply flawed one. Let's wait and see it I guess, but I have zero trust in the critics anymore. Critics used to nitpick movies to death, were almost jerks about it. But you wanted a critical perspective in a review, not studio fanboy propaganda. It used to be we were the judges of whether you thought a critic went too far in their criticism, now we are the judges that they are outright promoting bad movies. The internet has brought about a collapse in media quality and quantity across the board, I guess.
    It makes it hard to decide which movies to see when you can't trust the critics, and the media hype machine over-promotes every new blockbuster as the "film of the generation." I find am just avoiding all of the blockbusters in the theater altogether, watching the movies at home on a torrent, then if I like it I will pay for a copy and support it. I still want to support great art, and films can be that.

    I agree, the new system is pay to play sort of thing, the critics pay by either providing glowing reviews or at worst neutral ones as to not upset ticket sales. the majority of the critics and websites need first hand information to stay relevant, in order to get the access they have to stay in the good graces of the studios. The studio indirectly rewards the shills by inviting them to previews or gives them access for interviews etc... Like Tigerlaw indicated, the people who can tell will lose confidence in the system. I also wholeheartedly agree with what you said about the internet, this is the result of having 1000x more info streams than before the internet. The truth these days can get muddled much easier and even when mistakes are admitted to there is no one to see the retraction, the audience has already moved on to the next media feast. I realize this comment is not too closely related to movie criticism but points to a larger problem in the 5th state. Not sure where we go from here. I'm guessing we all get more dumb as a result.

    #3042 10 months ago

    Sorry to disappoint everyone's political and cultural agenda, but Captain Marvel was actually a pretty good movie. The kids are off school today so we went to see it last night with another family and between us we had 6 elementary school age boys that all loved it. Does everything in the story stand up to close scrutiny? of course not, but it's a comic book movie...they're all pretty ridiculous if you want to sit and pick them apart. But it was an entertaining movie that I would put at least in the top half of the marvel movies to date. And it should get bonus points on this forum for including a pinball machine....

    #3043 10 months ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    it should get bonus points on this forum for including a pinball machine....

    Don’t bury the lead, what game are we talking?

    #3044 10 months ago

    At this point the only Star Wars movie i want to see is one that starts off with Leia waking up in her bedroom on Coruscant and finding Han in the shower a la Dallas.

    #3045 10 months ago
    Quoted from GolfKill:

    At this point the only Star Wars movie i want to see is one that starts off with Leia waking up in her bedroom on Coruscant and finding Han in the shower a la Dallas.

    Yes the only point is Carie Fisher is dead. How come they didn’t actually you know let her die in TLJ?

    #3046 10 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Don’t bury the lead, what game are we talking?

    Space Invaders. Hopefully that doesn't count as a spoiler...

    #3047 10 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Yes the only point is Carie Fisher is dead. How come they didn’t actually you know let her die in TLJ?

    yeah so unfortunately probably impossible unless they recast her, and I have no faith in Disney/modern hollywood to do so well, so AFIAC there were only ever 6 Star Wars movies made and everybody lived happily ever after after ROTJ.

    #3048 10 months ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    Space Invaders. Hopefully that doesn't count as a spoiler...

    A little on the nose given the plot of Cpt Marvel, but any pinball on the screen is good pinball.

    #3049 10 months ago
    Quoted from GolfKill:

    At this point the only Star Wars movie i want to see is one that starts off with Leia waking up in her bedroom on Coruscant and finding Han in the shower a la Dallas.

    Oddly enough I found myself with free time yesterday and skimmed through The Force Awakens.

    Compared to The Last Jedi it is a masterpiece. Rey is still annoying as hell but JJ has an eye for visuals and the soundtrack was well utilized.

    Speaking of Last Jedi, numbers posted over on RT for CM.

    Again with "critics" praising to the stars, regular folks not so much.

    For the heck of it I looked up some quiet little movie that was not likely to garner much attention.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prospect_2018

    Curious no? The spread is much less at 89%/75%

    A great little movie if you get the chance to catch it.

    I don't wish to give away anything, well worth watching.

    CM_RT (resized).jpg

    #3050 10 months ago

    I heard about that Prospect, I'll try to check it out this weekend. I love that Pedro Pasal. The Red Viper, The Mandalorian.... what's not to like

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