*SPOILERS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad and other Star Wars talk *SPOILERS*

(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad and other Star Wars talk *SPOILERS*


By InfiniteLives

11 months ago



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  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Zablon
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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 155 votes
      29%
    • decent, better than the prequels 213 votes
      40%
    • really good, on par with the originals 69 votes
      13%
    • great! one of the best 66 votes
      12%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 36 votes
      7%

    (539 votes)

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    There are 2673 posts in this topic. You are on page 54 of 54.
    #2651 8 days ago
    Quoted from rai:

    That’s my point. I prefer the first but the sequel reboot was very good/great. I might not call it a masterpiece but it didn’t disappoint.

    2049 looked fantastic, the first was a better story though IMHO. They did a fairly good job of capturing the feeling of the world in the details, music and even camera angles.

    Sequels always have a tough hill to climb.

    The originals have been shaken out over time from the hundreds made that year, only a few will stand out. Even then the original had its weak areas, Sean Young and Ford had zero chemistry onscreen. And how do you replace Rutger Hauer? What a masterful performance.

    #2652 8 days ago

    https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/star-wars-diego-luna-1203023798/

    More Cassian Andor? More K2-SO? More Mon Mothma & Admiral Raddus? More classic Empire? More Rebel spy adventures? Count me in.

    I think these limited TV series for the steaming service is a good plan, and a Rogue One prequel series is a good backstory to explore. The Episode 3 to Rogue One time period is ripe with material. Possible Vader & Grand Mof Tarkin appearances. Possibly even running into the characters from Solo or live-action debut of Rebels cartoon characters. Great idea. So is the The Mandalorian TV show.

    A limited series (say 10 episodes) just makes this into a long 10 hour movie. Really get into the backstory of these Rogue One characters that the film didn't have time to do. Don't need the actors locked in for long periods of time either on a limited series, so it's easier to shoot & get actors for a single episode. Plus they need more Star Wars material for that streaming service, so the more the better. Curious how this show develops.

    -6
    #2653 8 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    “Hot take: Luke is in fact 100% consistent with his character (not the way he’s described in marketing blurbs, but his actual, based-on-his-words-and-actions character) from the [Original Trilogy]. I’ll be at the bar if you need me.”

    Idiot.

    I have always agreed with Rian here. Hate all you want, but I still don't understand the arguments for inconsistency.

    #2654 8 days ago
    Quoted from imharrow:

    I have always agreed with Rian here. Hate all you want, but I still don't understand the arguments for inconsistency.

    Luke was on a classic hero's journey, at the end of ROTJ he literately put it all on the line and was willing to selflessly sacrifice himself to save his father (or at least not strike him down) and his friends.

    Johnson decided to throw that all away, he even admitted he didn't understand the context in an interview.

    How can a man *who publicly admitted he didn't understand the context of what was going on* extrapolate Skywalkers future actions?

    You can't. I stand by my assessment. And no one cared to explain it to him till after Last Jedi shipped.. which is astounding in itself. One would have thought there would have long writers meetings going over every facet of the storyline and of the characters motivations.

    -1
    #2655 8 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Luke was on a classic hero's journey, at the end of ROTJ he literately put it all on the line and was willing to selflessly sacrifice himself to save his father (or at least not strike him down) and his friends.

    We just choose to interpret the character and events differently. Here is how I see it as an adult. Luke is a character about struggle between light and dark. We know both sides are in him. The cave showed us that Luke himself is his greatest enemy. Throughout ROTJ we see the Luke embracing aspects of the dark. In the end, he passes the test, but just as in the end there was still good in Vader, there will always be dark in Luke. With the defeat of Vader and Palpatine, the dark is vanquished, except for the dark that still lives in Luke, and balance must be maintained between the dark and the light, so the dark in him will grow. That struggle will only get worse within Luke.

    He is alone. He has no equal. He will struggle to integrate back into society.

    I like to view the events with a more realistic human view of it. There is no one event which tests you and then all is good. Life continues. Struggle continues. He still needs to deal with the Skywalker legacy and the 2 sides that struggle within him.

    But we can have different views here.

    #2656 8 days ago
    Quoted from imharrow:

    We just choose to interpret the character and events differently. Here is how I see it as an adult. Luke is a character about struggle between light and dark. We know both sides are in him. The cave showed us that Luke himself is his greatest enemy. Throughout ROTJ we see the Luke embracing aspects of the dark. In the end, he passes the test, but just as in the end there was still good in Vader, there will always be dark in Luke. With the defeat of Vader and Palpatine, the dark is vanquished, except for the dark that still lives in Luke, and balance must be maintained between the dark and the light, so the dark in him will grow. That struggle will only get worse within Luke.
    He is alone. He has no equal. He will struggle to integrate back into society.
    I like to view the events with a more realistic human view of it. There is no one event which tests you and then all is good. Life continues. Struggle continues. He still needs to deal with the Skywalker legacy and the 2 sides that struggle within him.
    But we can have different views here.

    mary popins i mean leia has the force and can float thru space but she isnt a recluse //shrug

    #2657 8 days ago

    Luke rotj: willing to die to save his father from the dark side

    Luke tlj: maybe senses a little dark side in his nephew, ready to cut him the fuck in half while he sleeps

    Consistent.

    #2658 8 days ago

    We can have different views, but even Hamill has said Luke was botched.

    "“I said to Rian, ‘Jedis don’t give up.’ I mean, even if [Luke] had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup, but if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference.

    But it’s not my story anymore, it’s somebody else’s story and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry.”

    “Well, in this version…see, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars, this is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s ‘Jake Skywalker,’ he’s not my Luke Skywalker. But I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well. Listen, I still haven’t accepted it completely, but, it’s only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset. I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man they needed for this job.”

    In other words, this is a shitty take on my character, but I have to toe the company line.

    #2659 8 days ago

    You're all correct, RJ didn't get the legend the saga, where Luke came from where he needed to end up. He treated this movie as just another movie, a movie he thought he could give his own treatment to, this is where he failed. I'm also going to guess he was trying hard to please the lady bosses at Lucas Film and at the same time market this fucking movie to every demographic/segment on the planet.

    #2660 8 days ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    ... and at the same time market this fucking movie to every demographic/segment on the planet.

    *Except star wars fans

    #2661 8 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    Uh, no. Bladerunner 2049 was a freaking masterpiece of cinema. I liked that one far better than the first.

    I thought it was a piece of shit.

    #2662 8 days ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    I'm also going to guess he was trying hard to please the lady bosses at Lucas Film and at the same time market this fucking movie to every demographic/segment on the planet.

    Ask yourself; is there any males in The Last Jedi who are shown in a positive light?

    Hux = Space Nazi
    Finn = Coward, comic relief
    DJ = Sleazy, betrayer
    Poe = Hot head, disobeys orders, mutineer, gets bomber crews killed
    Snoke = Evil
    Kylo = Emotional man child having temper tantrums
    Admiral Ackbar = blown out a window
    Luke = hermit loser

    I see consistency. The fact Disney has actually used the term "major course correction" for the Star Wars movie that is being shot by JJ and dumped all the movie projects that were slated to go should tell you something. TLJ came out, Solo cratered due to it and the Boba Fett and Ben Kenobi movies were shelved.

    Solo is the first Star Wars movie that LOST money and it is a perfectly innocuous popcorn flick. Not a great movie but by no means should they have lost money. TLJ poisoned the well and the JJ movie better be pretty damn spectacular to win fans back.

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    #2663 8 days ago

    Well they are trying this whole "I am woman hear me roar" crap and its failing, won't be long till its reverts back to what makes money and great films. GB's all female cast? crap. Oceans 12?, crap. Star Trek new series mostly broads? crap. and now StarWars.

    #2664 8 days ago
    Quoted from Jason43:

    Luke rotj: willing to die to save his father from the dark side
    Luke tlj: maybe senses a little dark side in his nephew, ready to cut him the fuck in half while he sleeps
    Consistent.

    Agreed - this is the biggest inconsistency of them all. I can potentially see Luke going hermit - I mean, ALL the other Jedi Masters, once great heroic warriors, ended up doing the exact same thing. Why not him? I don't see that as inconsistent at all.

    But sensing darkness in his nephew and getting an urge to kill him in his sleep? That makes no sense whatsoever and is way off-character considering the events of the original. In a way they ruined Kylo as well with this as well as it doesn't make him seem as evil / dark anymore. Turn the tables - imagine if Yoda, who sensed darkness in Luke as well, almost killed Luke in his sleep? That would've been a really different dynamic.

    #2665 8 days ago

    Well for starters Yoda wouldn’t have failed ...

    #2666 8 days ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Agreed - this is the biggest inconsistency of them all. I can potentially see Luke going hermit - I mean, ALL the other Jedi Masters, once great heroic warriors, ended up doing the exact same thing. Why not him? I don't see that as inconsistent at all.

    Oh?

    Yoda = Hiding from Empire who were slaughtering all the Jedi
    Kenobi = Watching over Skywalker as he grew up

    Context matters.

    If Luke wanted to "go hermit and die" why did he leave a map to find him? Johnson is on record discarding everything JJ had done in TFA.

    Someone mention that Hamill even told Johnson that Skywalker was acting out of character, Jedi don't give up. His advice was ignored.

    #2667 8 days ago

    What's sad, and kinda great at the same time, is Disney screwed up so bad with The Last Jedi that no one really seems to care about new Star Wars movies at the moment. Hell, the prequel trilogy now seems more enjoyable to me since Episode 8 was released, lol.

    #2668 7 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Hell, the prequel trilogy now seems more enjoyable to me since Episode 8 was released, lol.

    Wow, talk about an unforeseeable silver lining.

    #2669 7 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Hell, the prequel trilogy now seems more enjoyable to me since Episode 8 was released, lol.

    I actually tried to watch the first one a few weeks ago, made it a half hour before turning it back off.

    #2670 7 days ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Agreed - this is the biggest inconsistency of them all. I can potentially see Luke going hermit - I mean, ALL the other Jedi Masters, once great heroic warriors, ended up doing the exact same thing. Why not him? I don't see that as inconsistent at all.

    Except the takeaway from the six Lucas movies, the whole point to the arc, was that Luke succeeded where the others failed, and Anakin was redeemed, the Emperor vanquished. That's the story.

    The new movies take the entire point of those films, wad it up, set it on fire, and then piss all over the fire. They've rendered the old movies absolutely meaningless.

    #2671 7 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I actually tried to watch the first one a few weeks ago, made it a half hour before turning it back off.

    That must of been right around when Jar Jar says "Messa back", don't blame ya, lol.

    #2672 7 days ago
    Quoted from racer_x:

    Except the takeaway from the six Lucas movies, the whole point to the arc, was that Luke succeeded where the others failed, and Anakin was redeemed, the Emperor vanquished. That's the story.
    The new movies take the entire point of those films, wad it up, set it on fire, and then piss all over the fire. They've rendered the old movies absolutely meaningless.

    YES! Spot on. Disney tries to act as if the new trilogy are sequels but really they are reboots disguised as sequels. The original characters have been sprinkled in here and there to bring in the older fans but then are just killed off.

    I honestly hope at this point that Episode 9 is about Chewie, R2 and 3P0 trying to escape the resistance to stay alive. Maybe 3P0 will tell Chewie and R2 "our odds of survival if staying with the resistance are 3 million to one", lol. Then the rest of the movie is just the resistance and porgs trying to hunt them down.

    #2673 7 days ago

    Well realistically though, that is how history works. They got that part right. Nothing you do 'here' matters down the road because there's always some other ***hole waiting in the shadows to screw things up and push things backwards.

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