I downloaded TFK the other day. Based on the changes I've read, sounds like a huge improvement, but since Luke is still a grumpy old bitch, it can never truly be fixed. Rose is just another Resistance fighter, not featured at all. Fynn role significantly downgraded. Holdo becomes friend of Leia, not an Admiral. No running out of gas. No Phasma or DJ. No Casino or parking tickets. No SWJ agendas.

This cut just makes it barely tolerable, and boils it down to a focused Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke story, bookended by a Resistance escape. Curious how it plays onscreen.

1) Cut the awful Poe jokes at the beginning
2) Cut Finn/Rose/DJ/Phasma side arc altogether, including Maz
3) Cut the "Low on Fuel" arc completely
4) Cut Leia being blown into space
5) Cut Ach-To alien nuns scene
6) Cut Luke/Rey joke about “reaching out” and slapping on the hand
7) Cut Finn joking about how the first order “hates that ship” in the Crait battle
8) Cut Holdo/Leia awkward joking about “may the force be with you”
9) Cut Finn trying to crash into the battering ram and Rose saving him.
10) Cut broom boy ending
11) Luke drops the lightsaber, instead of tossing it
12) Added the deleted beach attack scene on Ach-To
13) Added custom end “close out” circle to fit the end of the movie

Yes that should go too. Not sure if he cut it.

Ugh, so now he's just clumsy? Not sure that's a great improvement, at least there was some intentionality to him tossing it, if he just drops it, it's like she flew half way across the universe to pass the baton back to a butter-fingers that's no longer capable of wielding it.

I'd actually be up for even more of that if they've got deleted scene footage (maybe cut to him casually eating Porg again the next night). Thought it was pretty funny, imagine if they'd fried up an Ewok in ROTJ.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi

Critics Consensus: Star Wars: The Last Jedi honors the saga's rich legacy while adding some surprising twists -- and delivering all the emotion-rich action fans could hope for.

91% vs 46%

Who is closer to being correct? The critics who gave TLJ a 91% or the fans who gave it 46%

Going back to my first point, money meeting the road.

Star Wars fans crushed Solo for at least 2 reasons. One was a movie that did not need to be made and to punish Disney for making the poop show T.L.J.

Polls and critics can be manipulated, 91% fresh.

Well this is an interesting point of view. This is a writer posting from starwars.com.

You are not the customer, we don't have to listen to you.

star wars (resized).jpg

I could not have said it better.

Yes there are a shocking amount of tweets & comments from many Star Wars executives (the story group writers, actors, directors, etc etc) directed at Star Wars fans who express their displeasure & criticisms. People in this thread who don't follow the blogs or YouTube videos may not be aware how crazy this stuff is getting in certain circles.

These tweets are not coming from fringe SW employees. These are the people running the show! JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, Johnathan Casdan, Pablo Hidalgo, John Bogeya.... They have all been guilty of blatantly attacking fans, doubling down on their SJW beliefs, and incorrectly assume that that any fan who criticize their work are just a bunch of "sexist & hateful fanboys" and are not "true fans". It's offensive to me. They don't understand fan frustrations, and they lash out in return. It's shocking that Disney execs allow this type of social media activity to continue.

That tweet that was mentioned above is just beyond stupidity. It reeks of elitism. It's a HUGE turnoff for fans. I have never seen a company directly attack it's passionate dedicate fan base is such a manner before. In other words, you are attacking your CUSTOMERS. Yes there are some fans who are bad seeds & take things war too far, but the majority just want to enjoy what we love. We complain because we care deeply.

Lusasfilm aren't doing themselves any favors here.

That's why we have to protest with our wallets. Don't grace them with another cent until they finally understand that the bulk of the fan base is pissed and that SW is now going to be a bottomless pit that consumes cash until they make the decision to put that dumpster fire out.

I'll confess, you've lost me. My point was that the poll results in this thread are surprising in light of the fact that most posters here seem to have disliked the movie. As in, I'm genuinely surprised that 67% of people that bothered to vote rated it "decent" or better. And yes, online polls and critics can be manipulated. But I feel easy assuming that no one created an account on a pinball website to vote in an off-topic poll, or was strong-armed by Disney into voting as they did.

I don't have an answer aside from people are voting with their wallets and Disney is starting to note it in a vague manner. The fact Disney has not locked down every social media account related to Star Wars and these people are still yamming about the crappy fan base IN PUBLIC tells you they are still without a real clue.

The poll isn't matching the reality of what I see in box office receipts, reviews and sales. People are pissed about the direction Star Wars is going and the money stream is being shut off. Solo is a dumpster fire (currently at 200 million domestic which is a disaster) and no one has been officially dismissed.

What happens if Episode 9 crashes and burns? I know I have zero interest in seeing it. Han died like a bitch, Fisher is dead (not that she was bringing much to the table the last 2 outings) Luke is a pathetic looking whiner who died projecting a force hologram.

You have a Mary Sue who can do no wrong, an emo villain and a beachball for comedy relief to fill the breach.

Episode 9 should start off with the last rebel ship running into a moon and start from scratch. I might pay money to see that.

Wow, your list really drives the point home doesn't it? The point of how much was wrong with this picture, it was so wrong that by just omitting material they improved it Which is proof positive that it wasn't just RJ's fault....everybody in the Lucasfilm management circle failed, failed to see the problems that the fan edit has highlighted(by cutting it). As far as I'm concerned ep 9 will also tank, because it's the same droopies involved with it. Hopefully it will besmirch the undeserved record of JJ Abrams who should not have been given the reins of 2 of the best franchises in movie history.

Forgot to add: Lucas must be laughing his brains out, Disney is making the prequels look like gold in comparison and rehabilitating his reputation.

And he is getting paid 4 billion at the same time.

But what about Marvel? How is Marvel so good?

It makes me realize it’s not the subject that makes a movie good because LotR good Hobbit bad.

Toby Maguire SM good, Andrew Garfield SM bad.

Batman all over the map.

Marvel has a strong showrunner team (Kevin Feige and Russo Brothers) with a multiyear plan in place. When they retire? All bets are off.

Lots of rumbling since the current crop of actors are "aging out" and their contracts will be up there is fear that Marvel/Disney will start doing the gender swap tango, which along with the other SJW shenanigans is destroying the current Marvel paper comic book line. Marvel Comics is a pale shadow of itself compared to 30 years ago, good for mining past IP. The comic end is basically a money loser and tax write off.

With Marvel, they had a plan from the beginning. With Star Wars, it's pretty obvious they're just making these movies up as they go along. Which is a shame, because SW really should've been handled better.

What poll are you talking about?

Edit: nevermind, I see it. It’s because it says “better than the prequels”, which were also hot garbage. I disagree personally, it’s the worst one of them all by far IMO. The poll wording is slightly misleading people into the “Decent” vote.

Fair point, there are miles of room between “better than the prequels” and “decent.”

The Latest Jedi is available on Netflix streaming. It's a director's cut/special edition made specifically for the diehard fans who felt personally wronged by the theatrical version. At the end of the credits there is information on how to participate in a class action lawsuit against Disney for egregious pain and suffering. Let the healing begin.

really?

Does it have the alien milk drinking scene? I know Lucas/SW likes to put odd aliens in the movies, but this was just ridiculous.

I actually didn't mind Poe's "You Momma" jokes half as much as some of the folks, but the progs and many alien creatures on the island were just stupid.

Ya been trolled. Netflix and Disney may be breaking up, but Netflix isn’t at the “making bitter mixtapes” stage just yet.

This fan made movie is better than anything Disney has done with Star Wars!

But seriously, I just love seeing a well choreographed light sabre battle. That is something we haven't seen since the prequels. The action really starts at 2:00.

Latest rumor is Iger has reached out to the Marvel movie team (Kevin Feige) for assistance with Star Wars, which would make sense as for the moment the Marvel movies have been making crazy money. Related rumor is Kennedy has little to nothing to do with next movie in the franchise, it has been dropped in J.J. Abrams lap.

She has either been removed from controlling it or trying to shift the blame to J.J. for the inevitable crash and burn take your pick.

As discussed here already, I'm not sure how you would follow up The Last Jedi with something people will get excited about, the well has been poisoned.

Disney needs to make a great movie, and they don't really know how to do that anymore. Walt Disney was all about innovation, risks, imagination, dreaming big. Disney today is all about playing it safe, sequels, reboots, recycling old content and trying to maximize profits accordingly. Disney needs to make a GREAT Star Wars movie. They need to differentiate themselves from the mindless summer blockbuster model with familiar faces and lots of explosions and action scenes. They need to take risks, chances, and develop a powerful story and invite the audience to experience it in an engrossing and compelling way.

For now, the well is poisoned. The goodwill of Star Wars fans has been poisoned, the quality of the franchise has been poisoned, and the leadership at Disney has been poisoned. JJ Abrams is not the person to fix this, I don't know who is...if I was Disney, I might spend $100M to bring in James Cameron. T2, Aliens, True Lies, and to a lesser extent Titanic and Avatar...if he even would want the challenge at this point in his life.

I can actually see episode 9 doing half what TFA did at box office.

IMO (to be honest) Disney should just re edit TLJ even reshoot it a bit and make like the original never existed. People would probably go see TLJ redux and it would reset episode 9. But it’ll never happen.

I can't believe this thread is still going.

The bottom line is they are never going to be able to make any movies that live up to expectations of those of us in our 40s and 50s that were enthralled by the original movies as children. If you can let go of that baggage and just treat the new movies as simply movies, then you might enjoy them. I didn't bother seeing Solo until last weekend due to all the media reporting about it being a bomb and I have to say it was actually a fun movie that I enjoyed watching with my 7 year old. Nothing spectacular, but it was a good movie. Plenty of plot holes that I could pick apart if needed, but what science fiction movie (or any action movie) doesn't have that? Picking apart every detail destroys any movie. Could you imagine if Empire came out today how nuts people would go over similar minor issues?

No, I can't, because while there _were_ some "minor issues" in Empire, it didn't summarily destroy all of the carefully-build plot threads from ANH, leaving fans with little or no reason to want to see the 3rd movie of the trilogy.

If Empire had been anywhere near as poor as TLJ, the franchise would have died in 1983.

Exactly. There are good movies, and blatantly bad movies. The prequels and TLJ are blatantly bad. It's never been about nostalgia. It's about movies written and directed by someone that has a 10 year old mentality. Ooooo special effects. Things exploding. Lightsaber battles way overused. dialogue? who needs quality? Character development and chemistry? Nobody notices that in movies anyway. Characters acting in character? Nah, as long as it looks good on screen.

TLJ as simply a movie is horrendous. Bad plot, laughable dialogue, and terrible characters that you don’t care about. Good visuals and sound is all it has.

A twitter user called Ruin Johnson out this week:

"My main gripes are that you abandoned the spirit and heart of Star Wars in favor of your own ideas, opinions, and mindset, rather than continuing a 40 year legacy. Skywalker and the rest of almost everything in the film subverted all that was."

To which Johnson surprisingly responded the following BS response:

"For me The Last Jedi 100% distills what the spirit & heart of Star Wars has been in my life. But yes it is personal, it’s a certain point of view, and it has to be - originals were personal for George Lucas, that’s why they’re alive. Star Wars films will truly betray the heart & spirit of the originals if they lose that, and become soulless clean homages. But being alive means being messy, and it means every film won’t line up exactly with what every fan is expecting or wants. I’m sorry The Last Jedi didn’t line up with your own certain point of view"

That's not much of an apology. Sorry YOU had a problem with MY vision. He's not apologizing for what he did. That's a huge difference. So to summarize... he made a personal SW movie for himself, for his own selfish reasons, without any regard for fan expectations or what came before it, and he's "sorry" fans have a problem with it.

What a complete toolbox. The sooner Disney announces his spin-off trilogy has been sacked, the better. This muppet really needs to go away. He just continues to piss off the fans with his arrogance.

Right, if empire came out today you wouldn't be freaking out about some stupid green muppet showing up and the crazy decision to change the story about Vader killing Luke's father. And of course it must be those damn SJW folks insisting on adding a black guy to the cast just for the sake of diversity....

So is Kevin Feige leaving Marvel for Star Wars?

Slash Film caught up with Feige at the press junket for Ant-Man and the Wasp and asked if he will be involved in Star Wars. Feige's response:

“No. Only in my backyard with my action figures.”

There you have it, and you Marvel fans can rest easy, as can the Star Wars fans worried about Feige inserting "Marvel" jokes into Star Wars (which Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy attempted to do in The Last Jedi and failed miserably at).

Star Wars is not science fiction. There is no science in Star Wars of any kind. It’s pure fantasy.

Fantasy worlds are great with me by the way, I don’t need science fiction, but fantasy worlds like Star Wars must maintain consistency in the rules of their fantasy world...TLJ ruined consistency with the hyper space ram. It was cool to see happen once but has totally ruined the naval capital ship style of combat the Star Wars Universe has been known for.

The fast travel and putting hyper drive on small ships like X-Wings (rendering carriers useless) were problems that started with TFA but were made worse by TLJ.

Obviously everyone would have a problem with the use of a muppet in the era of CGI renderings leaving muppet technology mostly obsolete.

Nothing else you say on this topic is particularly credible though. The plot device of a seemingly unimportant creature you stumble across on the side of a path that becomes far more important than one would believe is an ancient and respected plot device in fiction.

Vader being Luke’s father was a cohesive story plot point in the original trilogy. The OT was a true trilogy, not loswly connected sequels that trample over each other’s feet like TLJ did with TFA.

As for Lando, he’s a respected member of the original cast and is a great character and I don’t believe I’ve heard people attack him for his skin color. I wish they utilized him in the current trilogy in some way. Most people believe diversity is great. Diversity of course comes from diverse ideas and perspectives as opposed to a superficial difference in skin color in the view of many. KK and RJ seem to feel that being a white male makes you evil or incompetent and this has frusterated many as it feels agenda driven.

I’d settle for a good lightsabre battle right now. That is one thing the prequels did right IMO. So far, the lightsabre battles from TFA and TLJ have been rubbish. Even the one in TLJ with the Royal Guard (or whatever they are called), was poor in comparison to the prequels.

The problem with the Royal Guard battle was it had zero stakes. There was a greater chance of the Brooklyn Brawler pinning Hulk Hogan in the 80’s than the faceless mask wearing Royal Guard killing either the emo villain or the Suzy Que.

The only thing that Royal Guard fight did was needlessly destroy Luke’s saber and make what should have been a meaningful item no longer a part of the story. Of course, Luke tossing it over his shoulder deleted scene style for a cheap laugh already had devalued the item to almost nothing anyway...thanks again RJ...

I liked it a lot... Far better than anything the Prequels gave us. Plus I found it refreshing that the movie ditched the same cliche Star Wars tropes everyone here loves so much.

My number one happiest moment was when Rey turned out to be her own person and not the Daughter of Kenobi, Palpatine, Rodger Rabbit, or Solo. I love it, it makes the Universe seem big again.

And who cares about Snoke? Why did people think he was such an important character? The Emperor had like 15 lines in all three movies of the OT. And 12 were in ROTJ.

Again, Snoke wasn't considered to be this super villian. Kylo was. And again, I found that refreshing.

I dont understand this at all... Like Lightsaber battles where that big a thing in the OT? Hell the prequel lightsaber battles were such shit, just over rehearsed bull crap that felt so fake and pointless.

At least in ROTJ the battle had a lot of emotional weight to it. I think they tried to recreate it with the Royal guard battle in TLJ but that emotional baggage wasn't there. It was just slightly above the prequels in my opinion because it did have at least some emotion behind it, and didn't seem so rehearsed.

Still leagues better than anything from the prequels.

Careful Cap’n, that kind of talk will earn you the Black Spot around here

well someone gets very entertained by blinky things and xplooshuns.

This is more entertaining than TLJ

B30BAFBA-C835-4034-B90C-6862798F3294.gif

Just an opinion guys. Been a fan since the early eighties. The OT is still the best. The rest suck, this one to me just sucks a little less.

Come on, there were no silly xplooshuns. Not since the Prequels.

That's not bad. Better fight than most of the Lightsaber stuff.

You know, one way they could reboot the franchise is simply state "whiny Luke" was a clone made from his hand that was lost in Cloud City.

Nah, that makes no sense. Why go to the trouble of making a clone and then sticking it on a planet in the middle of no where.

Not that I want to defend any of these terrible movies, but Luke's X-Wing had hyperdrive in Empire. There's a whole sequence of him going to Dagobah.