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Their approach would be fine if they had a plan and a cohesive story that made sense and was interesting. Large volume doesn't always mean poor quality, but...man...that last movie really hurt them.

The lightsaber Luke cared so little about he threw it over his shoulder like a blooper reel gag? They devalued the item so much for that quick laugh that no one will care how they got it since it is worthless (and now destroyed to boot).

Once again yiu can blame them, worked with Marvel.

It would still be a problem. Disney did this exact same thing when they over saturated their animated output in the 1990's thinking "everything will be as big as Lion King!" But when there's a movie a year it's no longer special.

While I agree Last Jedi has a host of (storytelling) problems working against it it was never going to do Force Awakens money. That had the advantage of 10 years (or for prequel haters 32 years) of pent-up demand.

Now if every annual release could do as well as Rogue One that's still VERY good. But they need to fix their pipeline (and stop rushing scripts) because the uber-expensive Rogue One and Han Solo reshoots are not sustainable.

Riiiiiight. There's been about 2-3 Disney Marvel movies per year since 2008. Good for around $12-14B in worldwide box office gross, with an overall cinemascore average of A-. That's not even counting all the superhero merch Disney/Marvel sell each year. The public is just burned out on all of this superhero stuff huh? Not special anymore because there are at least 4-5 superhero movies a year eh? Bollocks.

When the storytelling is well done & the product is good, people turn out in droves all over the world. They can't make these movies fast enough. Just look at Black Panther presales. Just set the record for advanced marvel ticket sales, for a character 9 out of 10 people on the street couldn't even name 3 years ago. And Infinity War Part One will likely gross $2B worldwide easily. Marvel isn't slowing down at all due to market saturation, and you could even argue it's getting bigger.

Disney can do the same thing with Star Wars. They just need to get their shit together. All starts at the top with talented writers, excellent directors, respected actors & an overall cohesive plan. Just stay true to these beloved characters & the universe they live in, and put your own forced political/social statements in the trashcan. If the product is good, people will keep coming back. Come on already, it's fricking Star Wars!

The difference is that the Marvel movies are awesome. They are what every comic book dweeb wished for when they were kids. The SW movies suck. Just an opinion but I thought they all sucked after the first 3. The tale was told, the galaxy was safe from the empire and Darth Vader.

I hear yeah at least a bit but personally I think the Marvel movies are starting to feel dull and have felt that way for the past couple of years. Every story told is pretty much predictable at this point. The second Avengers film, Age of Ultron, seemed like a dud in my opinion. Also, unlike Star Wars I think the world and lore surrounding the Marvel universe is rather weak.

It doesn't help either that every main good character in the Marvel universe seems invincible. I don't think a single Avenger in the 12+? films at this point has died and as a result every film has this "good guy going to fight bad guy and win" plot to it which over the years has become repetitive.

The problem with the Marvel movies is they feel like there are no stakes. None of the good guys die. They don’t even get injured. War Machine was walking again by the end of the civil war movie.

Marvel needs to take some chances and kill off some heros here and there. Civil War was a failure as nothing changed, not even how the characters viewed each other (with the cell phone message from CA to IM at the end letting him know they were still pals). Marvel needs to take a page from XMen movies and kill off characters every now and then to give a feeling of stakes.

And even if they do, like Quicksilver in Avengers 2, don't worry the other better non Russian Quicksilver is still alive in the other movies.

There are good ones of course liek Avengers 1, Logan was pretty good...but just rinse & repeat. I finally got bored enough to watch Deadpool and it was 100% exactly what I thought it would be.

I thought he lived. I looked it up, you are correct.

Characters so memorable, no one notices when they die!

"sub-par product" you ignored what I stated in full.

Clearly the Marvel studio ISN'T turning out sub-par stuff.

Caught Thor recently, entertaining movie with a different tone, we all enjoyed it.

Sure I guess if you say so. They seem to be turning out some hot garbage but also some good things. When SW gets up to 10 releases a year let's see what happens. Might have it worked out by then.

That's because they can NEVER END. There's always another movie or spinoff to advertise during the credits.

Movies have lost their sense of completion, of voyeuristic absolution, of finality. 24 years ago we see Andrew Dufrane escape prison and make it to Mexico, and Red joins him. A happy ending! A cathartic release! Your life may suck but you can take solace in a story with a happy ending. Maybe your life will turn out OK too...

Now if they made that movie we'd get a sequel where they both end up back in jail, the guards are even meaner, and they have to escape again.

They are out of ideas. You can tell me I’m wrong but I think that in many ways people are nowhere near as creative as they used to be.

Just look at all the reboots on T.V. and the ones getting ready to come out! They ran out of ideas about a decade ago. We have Hawaii 50, Will and Grace, Roseanne currently and I think shows like Magnum P.I. (one of my favorites) Charmed, Dynasty and god know what else is in the works! Star Trek was rebooted! Hell after we are all long gone Star Wars will be rebooted!

Hey, let's write an outline. Ok, so we have a youngling Jedi that was spared when Vader killed them all. A few years later he joins the Imperial forces, only to get close enough to Vader so he could kill him. The young man shows remarkable talent and is picked for the death squad troopers. While in training the young hero meets his rival, an ambitious high born imperial officer who is determined to be Vader's apprentice......
Sounds good so far? I just made that shit up sitting here on the sofa fanning my balls.

Sure, sounds great. Now come up with a original Sci fi script that isn’t a knock off of one that has already been done or a typical formulaic script where you just change the details. I’m not knocking the talent that is out there because I damn sure couldn’t come up with anything but I just feel that the people there aren’t nearly as creative as they used to be along with the fact that it gets harder and harder to come up with something original. My family loves movies. We probably see 2-3 a month so we see a lot or repetitiveness

Speaking of originality, anyone seen the Netflix movie "The Cloverfield Paradox"? The production value is shockingly good. The story wasn't half bad either. Thank goodness Abrams just produced this time.

Thanks for the recommendation, just added to my watch list.

Watched it last night with the mrs who is a horror fan.

It was "ok"

I thought the ending was very weak, fairly good till then. Aside from two scenes pretty much bog standard sci-fi fiction.

The problem with Hollywood is they very rarely take risks, making endless sequels and spin-offs is low risk in their opinion.

When movies were cheaper you could afford some stinkers. If I remember correctly, when Casablanca came out Hollywood was actually cranking one movie per week! They still churn them out at a pretty good rate but much more expensive now.

Other than maybe the first Iron Man, I thought the Marvel movies all sucked and were way too predictable. Ant man was passable I suppose.
Edit: Forgot Guardians was Marvel. First movie was good, second was alright.

First Iron Man was the best, Ant Man was very enjoyable. Guardians of the Galaxy was a fun romp. Winter Soldier had good tone to it and a little different, more a political thriller. If you liked Ant Man, you might like Thor Ragnarok. It is a slightly silly "buddy cop" movie and fun as hell. Cate Blanchett is a delightful villain who chews the scenery with abandon.

Doctor Strange was decent but his story is really no different than Tony Starks in Iron Man.

More Solo news; Artist for Lucasfilm claims Solo movie makes The Last Jedi look like masterpiece.

https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/han-solo-movie-said-be-utter-pos-former-lucasfilm-employee

" I'm just tired of being complicit with the pernicious Mouse who couldn't care less about the quality of these films, they just want lots of flash to separate the proverbial "fool from his money". I assume you're a big fan of SW, and you're obviously talented, so I'll give you a heads up here without going into any specific details; If you were disappointed with TLJ like many other fans, don't see "Solo". If you hated TLJ, trust me when I tell you that "Solo" is going to make TLJ look like (insert favorite movie here). Honestly, don't waste your time or money going to see "Solo", wait for it to come out on HBO, STARZ, Showtime, etc. I haven't seen the final edit yet, just the scenes I've worked on. Given my experience with the last 3 Mouse SW movies and getting to see the final edit a week or 2 before the theatrical release, "Solo" is going to be an utter POS. Seriously, it's going to be an abomination. If you don't believe that I've worked on the Mouse SW movies, you can find my name in the credits of all of them including "Solo", plus quite a few others : "Benjamin Flynn" (Digital Artist for Lucas)."

Damn reading that gave me an idea. They should have made Snoke one of the younglings that survived Anikin's attack but not without being hideously scar'd.

I would think if they were to see that he said that he wouldn’t work on anymore mouse movies.

And it’s probably a violation of an NDA or employment agreement...

Not that I don't have my doubts about the veracity of this guy, the article says he's a former employee.

But he sounds so calm and rational in his post ...

Assuming this guy even is who he says he is, it certainly reads like the griping of a guy that just got canned and wants a little vengeance. Doesn't mean the Solo movie won't also suck, it's accumulated an impressive number of red flags -- but I'm guessing this dude has an agenda beyond exposing "the Mouse's" artistic crimes.

Best I can say is it sounded great.

A lot of dumb happenings that I felt the writers made up as they went along. Ok, this guy is in this room, it'd be neat if he died this way. And the convoluted attempt to tie the movie into the Cloverfield universe was silly. The original script had no ties to the universe and it shows.

All that said, it kept me entertained, but definitely turn your brain off while watching.

Yeah, I agree, it was just ok. I did like the set design, CGI and stuff. I thought it looked like a big budget movie.

“Gremlin JJ Abrams claims backlash came from fans threatened by women”

https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments

Lol “Gremlin”, now that’s a cut down.

Read a few of the comments on that reddit thread. What is it, “The SJW Chat Corner” or something?

Sorry, I didn’t read the whole thread but Reddit is brutal even by net standards. I just liked the headline ( I took the link partially out). Ontoh, saying the fans anger against this movie is because of their aversion to strong women is just begging for more backlash.

anyone that thinks this movie is anything less than the biggest piece of crap ever written, watch these. It's a step by step review of the entire movie. It's in 3 parts and worth it.

I challenge any of you that thinks this movie has even an ounce of redeeming quality to stand up for it after viewing all 3 parts of this full fledged review.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

To simplify where we are at with Disney and Star Wars is obviously difficult.
They are marketing heavily, and it is to a new audience. The established fan base is not their market. It would seem they just want us to consume their merchandise.
Hollywood is left of center, liberal, SJW, call it what you will. Reboots are the new normal.
Disney uses corporate strategy, focus groups, and marketing studies as their tools. Charming story with endearing characters? Nah.

How they expect to mesh these rehash plots, gender politics, diversity studies and still have over priced toys fly off the shelf is beyond me.
You think a child is going to put down an iPad to play with a Rose or Holdo action figure?

If you do not like what you see, you have little choice but to move along. Star Wars is no longer special.

I vote with my wallet, good bye Star Wars. I am sorry this happened to you. Thank you for the memories.

There is a difference between rebooting something, and simply making just a bad movie, with no time and effort put into a script or story. That is the problem. They make movies and the primary focus is......Do we have things that are cute or look cool so we can sell toys and merch? Do we have scenes that look great, even though they don't make sense to the story, and blow out any reality to the situation? If both of these are yes. Then, they get the thumbs up to start filming. Assuming the audience is too dumb to notice the discrepancies. And in Disney's and the writers defense. 82% of the time they are correct.

All legit critiques of TLJ. Yet you didn't use the term "SJW" or name-check liberal Hollywood even once! How did you pull it off, I wonder?

Going to see Annihilation in an hour. I'm keeping fingers crossed.....

I know nothing about Annihilation, have yet to see a preview. But Ex Machina was so so good, hope this meets or beats it!

Great reviews and thanks for the link. But honestly guys save yourself a couple of hours and just go on your gut instincts after watching ep8 for 5 minutes that it is total garbage.

The only thing that feels remotely sw about this movie is the opening scroll... just.

I listened to this whenever I could non-stop; all the way through the 5 hours. It was so cathartic. It is a beautiful deconstruction of the mess that this film is. Part 3, 39:00-39:25 was very depressing for me. Luke Skywalker himself is feeling my pain, but to an even greater degree. I want to kick Rian in his fucking smug face so bad. The film fan in me wants nothing more than for them to abolish this film as non-canon and make a new one.

What could have been..

https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/star-wars-rumor-colin-trevorrows-episode-ix-would-have-been-epic

There were two key things Trevorrow wanted to be changed - and they were not minor. These two things have been known for a while around Disney. Firstly, he wanted Luke to still be alive in 9. He strongly disagreed with killing Luke off in 8 when he had just been re-introduced. Luke and Leia were to be a pivotal part of his script, with Leia's Force affinity revealed in a much more brother/sister way that was apparently going to be "beautiful and tragic". Mark Hamill loved it. "We were on the same page," as he's said about Trevorrow's storyline. However, Kennedy and Johnson wanted Luke dead - period. Second, he wanted Snoke to live, as his back story was to be more discussed. Fisher dying scuttled his original plan for the Leia Force affinity reveal, of course. But he still needed Luke alive for the story he wanted to tell to end the trilogy - more of a Luke handing off the baton to Rey and a Luke "walking off into the sunset" idea, in the last film - rather than Luke dying in 8. They refused. He argued. They fired him.

Yes it is depressing isn’t it when you envision what could have been if the film was given to a competent director with a good story and vision for much loved characters.

I couldn’t agree more. Kennedy has no respect for the fan base. RJ takes zero blame for delivering a poorly plotted product. They just say we are sexiest if we don’t like their movie...it’s the only defense these Hollywood types can muster.

I really get a chuckle when they say the hard core Star Wars fans have Star Wars burnout. We were never going to have burn out so long as the product was good and the story was interesting and the lore developed and grew.

Colin Trevorrow is nowhere near as good a director as JJ Abrams. Jurassic World was junk, and filled with character moments just as tone deaf (if not more) than what was in Last Jedi.

But it was successful junk, made more than all Rian Johnson's movies put together times ten, so it is a bit weird he didn't have a bigger say.

My personal theory is that Disney knew well in advance how divisive TLJ would be but couldn't course correct because they were already busy reshooting all of Han Solo. Internally they know there's a problem otherwise they wouldn't have released so much spin afterwards. But they had to put on a brace face.

The story in TLJ went nowhere, but took several key characters with it. (Except Phasma she'll be back) It's like an Erector set with key pieces missing. If you want something good with what remains, you give it to a good filmmaker (Abrams) not merely a lucky one (Trevorrow)

I agree, but question Ben: why did the critics go bonkers over TLJ falling over themselves to give it basically innacurate reviews? What was in it for them to fawn over the movie so irresponsibly like they did?

They will get invited to the next Disney movie pre-release for critics instead of having to wait for official release!

Why does anyone do it? I just (barely) made it through Wonder Woman which is maybe the worst Super Hero movie I've seen since Daredevil; and it's sitting at 98% fresh. Literally, and I don't say this lightly, Suicide Squad was better.

Half way through I was hoping league of Extraordinary Gentlemen was on another channel.

It’s got to be more than just that. Does Disney pay for their travel and lodging to these premiere’s and host a party for them or something?