(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel


By InfiniteLives

2 years ago



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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 212 votes
      33%
    • decent, better than the prequels 239 votes
      37%
    • really good, on par with the originals 79 votes
      12%
    • great! one of the best 74 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 43 votes
      7%

    (647 votes)

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    There are 4685 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 94.
    #851 2 years ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    It is impossible to please EVERYone, but really? Maybe write a better script and your movie won't be such a mess?
    I don't hear any(?) actual criticism of the "directing" on this film, it seemed competently made. The complaining has had to do with the writing.

    A good point actually, most of the shooting was technically ok.

    Johnson's biggest sin might have not been pushing back in regards to some of the bad writing. But as someone else pointed out, first major film and large check that comes with it, he might have just gone with the flow.

    He did say he could do what he wanted to do though, so I'm sure he had some input in the script.

    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    I actually had a hard time believing they didn't at least vaguely plan out this trilogy before filming a single scene from TFA.
    Apparently the plan was:
    - retread A new hope for movie 1
    - make up some bizarre new stuff for movie 2
    - try to make up some more stuff for movie 3
    That is just preposterous and amazing for a multi billion dollar franchise, where a trilogy is planned from the get go. I mean how does something like that even happen, unless writing is about the last thing on your mind when milking your franchise to death?

    Yes, considering how much cash they were raking in from the Marvel universe you think they would have taken a page from that playbook.

    But Star Wars is being helmed by Kennedy, not the Russo brothers.

    #852 2 years ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    I don't hear any(?) actual criticism of the "directing" on this film, it seemed competently made. The complaining has had to do with the writing.

    Oh I am for sure. That fight scene with Rey & Solo vs. the dumb red guards was atrocious; I thought I was watching Kung-Fu Theatre.
    And the editing was equally bad. The whole long distance force phone was handled very ham fistedly (sic)

    EDIT: Back to the directing the overall tone just felt bad right out of the gate and didn't get any better.
    I was pumped to start after the credits and then Fishers Daughter starts out the movie with some of the worst acting I've ever scene followed directly by General Hux, fine in the TFA but apparently been studying acting by watching Fletch in the interim, in a horribly awkward really bad tit for tat with Poe (hey why does everyone like this guy so much) Dameron

    #853 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    You are correct, I’ve been criticizing the director but my complaints are really more with the story itself than the directing.

    The director wrote it as well, correct?

    #854 2 years ago

    I think the Poe actor over acts and is hard to believe what he's portraying.

    #855 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    The director wrote it as well, correct?

    Yup.
    Sure it's been questioned but i have no idea what level of involvement/pressure/rules The SW people crack down on directors. I know it Marvel it's utterly smothering and you don;t have a ton of say in how things evolve. Athough...

    "Expectations are high for Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and it appears Disney and Lucasfilm are happy with the way the film turned out: today, Disney announced that its director, Rian Johnson, will be launching an entirely new trilogy in the Star Wars franchise."

    So seems everyones happy with each other?

    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    I think the Poe actor over acts and is hard to believe what he's portraying.

    Which leads to script & directing. General Hux & Poe are fine actors in other things and were good in TFA, but not well done here. Poe's biggest issue was he was just a total frikking spaz. Like watching Dick Richie act in True Romance

    #856 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    So seems everyones happy with each other?

    Well, for them, the important thing has happened. It's making money. When the snoke, er, smoke clears, probably around 2 billion!

    #857 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Well, for them, the important thing has happened. It's making money. When the snoke, er, smoke clears, probably around 2 billion!

    You woulda been happy if your movies made that kinda scratch right ted?

    #858 2 years ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    That is just preposterous and amazing for a multi billion dollar franchise, where a trilogy is planned from the get go. I mean how does something like that even happen, unless writing is about the last thing on your mind when milking your franchise to death?

    It happened with the prequels also.
    Quoting George Lucas:
    “Ya, they’re already building sets! God, help me! I’m gonna have to start this script pretty soon!”

    Happpend with POTC 2 and 3 also, they were writing their scripts up while filming was already in progress.
    Hollywood's a mess I guess.

    #859 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Well, for them, the important thing has happened. It's making money. When the snoke, er, smoke clears, probably around 2 billion!

    Yeah and again it had some awesome ass parts, but that's cause there are 10,000 SW ideas thrown at a wall.
    One big issue for me was the return to the prequels feel. TFA wiped away all that filthy feeling which is why it was so good.
    Now here we are at the Monte Carlo gambling scene?!? Are we sure Lucas didn't sneak in and direct some of this?

    Quoted from fishbone:

    It happened with the prequels also.

    It happened with the originals too...are people acting like Lucas wrote all 3 at once?

    And i swear hollywood, Andy Serkis isn;t the only guy that can pull off what you're looking for. Snoke with his rock star PJs...uff.

    #860 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You woulda been happy if your movies made that kinda scratch right ted?

    Hell yah! But The Deadly Spawn has a similar rating on RT!

    #861 2 years ago

    Scripts suck in general because in this shared universe annual release world movies are "made backwards" from a set-in-stone release date.

    What I find so frustrating about TLJ is with some minor tweaks it could have been so much better.

    #862 2 years ago

    Just watched TLJ last night. I fell asleep during the casino scene and my wife had to wake me up (I never did that during a SW film before). So I guess that tells of my opinion of this episode. I'd say it was better then TFA, but not by much. Still a bunch of stealing from the original series, like the elevator ride where Rey was telling Kylo that there is still good in him, the throne room scene, the AT-AT scene attacking the rebel base.
    Then there are the scenes that just made very little sense, like Finn taking off in a shuttle while the FO are hammering down on the rebel ships. Why was he not detected and followed? And what's the purpose of his character anyway? I mean you could have removed him from the movie completely and it would have not changed any outcome. Every objective he attempted basically failed in the end. The back stories on some of the key characters are so thin that it makes them boring. Who the heck in Snoke and why is he so powerful? Of course he dies a cheap death anyway, so I guess it really doesn't matter. And then Rey. Well her parents abandoned her.....OK that's it??
    So now with Snoke dead we have Kylo to lead the FO in the next film? I wouldn't call that much a leader in any sense. Oh yah then there is the piss poor acting by the FO commander with is overly cliche and almost slapstick delivery of his lines. At one point I actually thought the opening scene was a complete joke. The FO seems more like a bunch of bumbling buffoons than a highly advanced galactic military force that could be taken seriously. How many times can they lose death stars, starkiller base, dreadnought, massive Snoke ship and still have resources and skilled personnel to man them? Anyway, it was still better then the last movie, but a far cry from the original trilogy. I even like the prequels better. Just my opinion of course.

    #863 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Yup.
    Sure it's been questioned but i have no idea what level of involvement/pressure/rules The SW people crack down on directors. I know it Marvel it's utterly smothering and you don;t have a ton of say in how things evolve. Athough...
    "Expectations are high for Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and it appears Disney and Lucasfilm are happy with the way the film turned out: today, Disney announced that its director, Rian Johnson, will be launching an entirely new trilogy in the Star Wars franchise."
    So seems everyones happy with each other?

    Which leads to script & directing. General Hux & Poe are fine actors in other things and were good in TFA, but not well done here. Poe's biggest issue was he was just a total frikking spaz. Like watching Dick Richie act in True Romance

    Wow, I'm upvoting thelaw....wtf?

    #864 2 years ago

    I definitely had high expectations for this film, unfortunately they weren’t all met but the film wasn’t a complete disaster, I was entertained.

    Yes, a number of plot holes, some really bad character development but still better then any of the prequels and ROTJ.

    The Good:

    Luke and Leia interaction was great, all the different creatures were cool and true to SW universe, enjoyed most of the fight scenes.

    The Bad:

    Why build up Rey’s parents angle then state they were actually just loser parents, please tell the story of how she has Jedi powers. The problem isn’t that she is women the problem is that you cannot relate to her as they haven’t developed her character properly.

    The Ugly:

    Had a perfect opportunity to kill of Leia off in space, even better if Cao Ren did it and finished off his entire family. It would have made him more believable and made it even more sinister when he killed Snoke and tried to recruit Rey.

    Unfortunately too many questions and too many unanswered or implausable storylines to make this show a classic. Just one big lost opportunity but hey still had fun and glad I went to it.

    #865 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Hell yah! But The Deadly Spawn has a similar rating on RT!

    Similar? Same.

    last jedi 51 (resized).jpg

    #866 2 years ago

    Man having to watch Carrie Fisher that much was brutal...what a disaster she was.

    #867 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Hell yah! But The Deadly Spawn has a similar rating on RT!

    But how many Mary Sue's did you put into your film? What was the checkoff on your diversity quota? Purple hairdoo'd non-binary-psuedo-gender's?

    #868 2 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Nah, they were flipping the narrative.
    Strong, independent womyn saves the stupid, reckless male.
    Never mind it would have doomed them all to certain death if Skywalker and Rey had not shown up.
    I was touched at the time, it looked like Flynn was going to have an actual character arc from cowardly space janitor to hero of the rebellion/resistance and then they took it away.

    the date on that tombstone is wayyyy wrong. Should be the year 2000.

    #869 2 years ago

    I must be easy to please. I liked it and my wife thought it was the best one since the original 3.

    #870 2 years ago

    I went and watched it yesterday with the kids, I didn't expect too much...it was ok I guess. I thought they did a better job with the Rogue One movie over these two. Maybe they'll have a better story with the Han Solo movie too.
    Who's going to inherit R2 and 3PO, after Leia is gone?

    #871 2 years ago

    Well I took the family to see it. I dozed off somewhere in the middle. We were all pretty bored.

    #872 2 years ago
    Quoted from 11Bravo:

    I went and watched it yesterday with the kids, I didn't expect too much...it was ok I guess. I thought they did a better job with the Rogue One movie over these two. Maybe they'll have a better story with the Han Solo movie too.
    Who's going to inherit R2 and 3PO, after Leia is gone?

    Well, Rey of course...she gets EVERYTHING else without deserving it.

    #873 2 years ago
    Quoted from bcrage88:

    Had a perfect opportunity to kill of Leia off in space

    They couldn't do it. Don't forget they filmed the whole film with her. There were plenty of scenes already shot with her until the end. Easier to deal with next film.

    #874 2 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    They couldn't do it. Don't forget they filmed the whole film with her. There were plenty of scenes already shot with her until the end. Easier to deal with next film.

    I think they should recast her. Would be ballsy and serve the story better; Leia's ticket isn't supposed to be punched yet.

    Helen Miren or Streep. BOOOM.

    #875 2 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Similar? Same.

    From Box office Mojo:

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=daily&id=openingweekendshowdown.htm

    TLJ made more money on Thursday than on Friday? See the last 2 days on the bottom...maybe running out gas. 1.6 Billion estimated worldwide BO is a dream now.

    sw (resized).PNG

    #876 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I think they should recast her. Would be ballsy and serve the story better; Leia's ticket isn't supposed to be punched yet.
    Helen Miren or Streep. BOOOM.

    couldn't get much worse. at this point. It's like......what would it hurt?

    #877 2 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Similar? Same.

    Super Troopers on Rotten Tomatoes, critics have 35% and the audience 90%, F the critics.

    10
    #878 2 years ago

    People putting this movie above Return of the Jedi is crazy talk

    #879 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I think they should recast her. Would be ballsy and serve the story better; Leia's ticket isn't supposed to be punched yet.
    Helen Miren or Streep. BOOOM.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    couldn't get much worse. at this point. It's like......what would it hurt?

    Heck, I agree. Not like they can “ruin it” any further. If Kennedy and the other ladies feel they need Leia’s character for whatever reason then recast her. If they want to just mention in the opening credits of the next movie that she died, fine with me also.

    It’s not like she is really key to any trilogy plot line they have built up...

    #880 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Heck, I agree. Not like they can “ruin it” any further. If Kennedy and the other ladies feel they need Leia’s character for whatever reason then recast her. If they want to just mention in the opening credits of the next movie that she died, fine with me also.
    It’s not like she is really key to any trilogy plot line they have built up...

    Yeah, and no one came to her aid when she sent out her "personal" distress signal, so no one in the Galaxy cares if she dies.

    #881 2 years ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    It is impossible to please EVERYone, but really? Maybe write a better script and your movie won't be such a mess?

    I can't believe I am going to attempt to use logic in this thread but what the hell

    My point was that -- feelings aside -- there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it.

    The only option a writer/director/whatever were to change the rules of the universe (such as that the force can apparently be with anyone now). But that creates obvious inconsistencies with the past and also, has pissed off just about every Star Wars fan -- as seen in this thread.

    So if your beef is about the story, then I claim there was nowhere else for them to go.

    And if your beef is about why they mucked with Star Wars in the first place... obviously the answer is money. It's not easy to create a financially viable multi-episode franchise: it's a huge risk for a film studio. And Star Wars is still making a shit load of money: not just at the movies but in the licensing (maybe more in licensing?).

    #882 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I can't believe I am going to attempt to use logic in this thread but what the hell
    My point was that -- feelings aside -- there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it.
    The only option a writer/director/whatever were to change the rules of the universe (such as that the force can apparently be with anyone now). But that creates obvious inconsistencies with the past and also, has pissed off just about every Star Wars fan -- as seen in this thread.
    So if your beef is about the story, then I claim there was nowhere else for them to go.
    And if your beef is about why they mucked with Star Wars in the first place... obviously the answer is money. It's not easy to create a financially viable multi-episode franchise: it's a huge risk for a film studio. And Star Wars is still making a shit load of money: not just at the movies but in the licensing (maybe more in licensing?).

    There are a lot of really great books that took place after episode 6 that I found way more compelling than what we got from Disney

    #883 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    There are a lot of really great books that took place after episode 6 that I found way more compelling than what we got from Disney

    Oh yes, I really enjoyed Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire". What a great book trilogy, I would have loved to see Grand Admiral Thrawn on the silver screen!

    #884 2 years ago

    Sigh, just saw it this week. Blah.

    I will however be using this line (as it appears twice in the movie ) "Everything you just said is wrong....."

    #885 2 years ago

    I got a few good laughs out of this one.

    To be fair, while it is an attack on the movie, it does offer some defense of it. It is a much more eloquent means of expressing my opinion, in puppet form.

    #886 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    There are a lot of really great books that took place after episode 6 that I found way more compelling than what we got from Disney

    This.

    I have not read but one or two of the newer books but the older stuff (Splinter of the Minds Eye, Han Solo adventures, Lando adventures, Thrawn trilogy) was all good (with the Lando adventures being slightly weak but still very entertaining)

    The Thrawn books were great as they took a very reasonable and logical approach to the Star Wars universe: A very shrewd Imperial Admiral who was banished to the outer rim worlds by the emperor gathers up the remnants of Imperial forces and proceeds to make life difficult for the fledgling New Republic government.

    FYI- Proof the Lucas had no real plan after turning out the first Star Wars movie is in Splinter of the Minds Eye (which Lucas approved the manuscript before publication and had a hand in, 1978) where Luke and Leia are NOT brother and sister. Whoops!

    It was going to be a low budget follow up if Star Wars failed in the box office..

    Splinter_of_the_Minds_Eye (resized).jpg

    #887 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Yeah, and no one came to her aid when she sent out her "personal" distress signal, so no one in the Galaxy cares if she dies

    And with the fast travel they introduced anyone anywhere in the entire universe could have been there in time to help (cross the entire galaxy in two hours and all that)...so yea, the writers made her meaningless anyway.

    #888 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    My point was that -- feelings aside -- there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it.

    I know they made it feel this way since the writers decided to hit the reset button and go back to the empire vs rebellion with no explanation or story (beyond five planets being destroyed in one solar system bringing tens of thousands of other planets to their knees instantly), but the universe is huge and they could have taken it anywhere. They decided to hit the reverse button and add SJW features because they couldn’t think of anything better to do...

    #889 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I think they should recast her. Would be ballsy and serve the story better; Leia's ticket isn't supposed to be punched yet.

    Helen Miren or Streep. BOOOM.

    If need be they COULD do this. Just make up some reason to have to change her face. It could work.....

    #890 2 years ago

    SJW = S??? Jedi W???

    #891 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    SJW = S??? Jedi W???

    Superb Jedi Warrior...i.e. Rey.

    #892 2 years ago

    How cool would of it been if Lando had been the code breaker that Fin and Rose went searching for? That would have been a perfect setup for a casino type planet.

    I could see Fin and Rose talking to a reluctant Lando with him about to leave before Fin says "General Leias life depends on it" stopping Lando in his tracks and convincing him to help. Lando could have then went out in style.

    #893 2 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Us old people that are obsessed with the original, will probably not like it. But honestly what franchise with sequels do people actually like?

    Harry Potter

    -2
    #894 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I can't believe I am going to attempt to use logic in this thread but what the hell
    My point was that -- feelings aside -- there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it.
    The only option a writer/director/whatever were to change the rules of the universe (such as that the force can apparently be with anyone now). But that creates obvious inconsistencies with the past and also, has pissed off just about every Star Wars fan -- as seen in this thread.
    So if your beef is about the story, then I claim there was nowhere else for them to go.
    And if your beef is about why they mucked with Star Wars in the first place... obviously the answer is money. It's not easy to create a financially viable multi-episode franchise: it's a huge risk for a film studio. And Star Wars is still making a shit load of money: not just at the movies but in the licensing (maybe more in licensing?).

    The single most logical sentence about the whole thing I have ever seen.

    Really, this is all you need to know, the rest is all noise.

    "there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it"

    #895 2 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    The single most logical sentence about the whole thing I have ever seen.
    Really, this is all you need to know, the rest is all noise.
    "there was nowhere to go with the Star Wars universe after episode VI: the story was 100% complete with nowhere left to go with it"

    Plenty of places to go, Lucas choose not too.

    The extended universe of books, graphic novels, comics and TV series (Driods, Clone Wars, Rebels) are loaded with great stories and angles to be exploited. Hell the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight video games have some great story lines and you got to explore and expand the Star Wars universe in a far more interactive manner than just the books.

    #896 2 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    How cool would of it been if Lando had been the code breaker that Fin and Rose went searching for? That would have been a perfect setup for a casino type planet.
    I could see Fin and Rose talking to a reluctant Lando with him about to leave before Fin says "General Leias life depends on it" stopping Lando in his tracks and convincing him to help. Lando could have then went out in style.

    Ha, what a great idea...too bad you're a dude. Also, anyone else thinks Benicio was channeling "Fencer" from The Usual Suspects?

    #897 2 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Also, anyone else thinks Benicio was channeling "Fencer" from The Usual Suspects?

    I was still trying to figure out if the red lapel guy in the crasino was Rob Lowe at that point.

    #898 2 years ago

    Remember folks, when you need to hire The Galaxy's Best Codebreaker the first thing you should do is call a bartender!

    #899 2 years ago

    How about not parking your space jalopy on a public beach?

    #900 2 years ago
    Quoted from konjurer:

    It does seem consistent to me. Holdo just didn't take the precaution Han did in episode 4. She pointed the cruiser at the other ship and rammed through it at light speed. Han had to take the time to plot a safe course... Holdo didn't have to calculate a safe path. Isn't that the point? Maybe I'm not understanding the problem with the scene.
    I actually did like the Mary Poppins scene. In hindsight, they should/could have killed Leia off at that point. But I ran with the story. The only thing I didn't understand...and here is the continuity error again... when they opened the door to get Leia they should have gotten sucked out. Maybe there was an airlock there but I didn't see it. Again, I ran with it and enjoyed the overall story arc.
    The question I would ask to the people that were distracted by every continuity error is how MUCH explanation do you expect the director and editor to provide to the viewer? Is it their responsibility to make sure that the audience has no discontinuity at all? Or would all of those extra shots slow the story telling down? I'm not sure there is a right answer for everyone. If you show every little detail...like adding a scene showing Finn dragging Rose across the salt field you risk slowing the pace down and end up with a 4 hour movie (ala LOTR). The point of continuity in film making is for the viewer to piece together a story line without having to show everything "in between."
    I loved the sci fi series Dark Matter. Anyone else? But every episode I cringed because they short circuited so much of the story line. Nature of the beast.

    Yes, the makers of the movie (the storytellers) are supposed to make sure the people listening/watching (the audience) understand the story. This was not done.

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