(Topic ID: 205155)

*SPOILERS* -TROS* Star Wars: TLJ is really bad & other Star Wars/Disney/Marvel


By InfiniteLives

2 years ago



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    Topic poll

    “Star Wars: The Last Jedi was...”

    • garbage, the worst of the main films 212 votes
      33%
    • decent, better than the prequels 239 votes
      37%
    • really good, on par with the originals 79 votes
      12%
    • great! one of the best 74 votes
      11%
    • who cares, star wars sucks 43 votes
      7%

    (647 votes)

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    #501 2 years ago
    Quoted from Nibbles:

    "Deal with it bros"
    -Disney

    5-day revenues
    TFA: $325,438,146
    TLJ: $261,820,146
    -19.6 percent

    Day 5 revenue per screen
    TFA: $9,038/screen
    TLJ: $4,786/screen
    -47.1 percent

    Deal with it Disney.

    #502 2 years ago

    Great movie. It was actually pretty dense for a Star Wars movie and was more than just the good guys fighting bad guys.

    #503 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    You care enough to follow my opinion to every freaking thread..

    Wow you really hold urself in high regard don't you, every thread? I don't care what you do, but if a SW fan can't see the greatness in that game then there has to be other issues, if you just simply hate it then fine and I'll refrain from commenting on anything you post from this time forward. Good day sir.

    #504 2 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Yes, the movies should be made for the fans. Instead this one wasn't and that's why it has a 56% user Rotten Tomatoes score.
    The whole "Episode 8 is great because it blows Star Wars and it's characters up" is a bunch of BS in my opinion. Instead it makes Star Wars feel like something else.
    Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I think Star Wars seemed more like Star Wars when George Lucas was involved.

    Counterpoint. I am a Star Wars fan, and I like movies to give me something I didn't expect. This movie was made for the fans. Not all fans have the same taste.

    #505 2 years ago
    Quoted from John1210:

    Aurich has thought himself a cut above the rest for a while now. Just like his art... lame.
    Totally agree. This is a good thread to debate this movie. No need need for personal name calling like Aurich thinks he has the right to do. He obviously still has a few loyal followers lol... even more lame.
    My point is though this movie, if it was good, wouldnt be getting the debate or genersting the discussion that it is. Its clearly not that good or this just wouldnt be happening on the scale it is.

    Respectfully disagree. Movies that are bland inspire no debate. Popularity doesn't mean something is good. It usually means that it's inoffensive or not challenging.

    #506 2 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    Counterpoint. I am a Star Wars fan, and I like movies to give me something I didn't expect. This movie was made for the fans. Not all fans have the same taste.

    Yeah, but at 53% compared to the other SW movies mid 90% is still a pretty bad indication, you liked, he liked it, my grandma liked it doesn't change the shit numbers from a large swath of actual moviegoers. I suspect the numbers to be even lower than the 50 percentile, I don't frequent Rotten Tomato often but a careful examination of the reviews lead me to believe the movie studios have found a way to shill vote their movies even on Rotten Tomato. Just look at some of the reviews, the negative reviews overwhelmingly contain specific text about the movie but many of the 5-star positive reviews just have generic verbiage that could have been cut and paste from a database.

    #507 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    reading this reminds me of those (everything wrong with "such and such movie" in 50 seconds or less youtube video.

    Those things - and this thread - are all horrible and a direct result of Red Letter Media's success.

    EVERYBODY is a critic now. And most people really have no idea what they are talking about.

    #508 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    EVERYBODY is a critic now. And most people really have no idea what they are talking about.

    You hold 21 of the 506 posts in this thread.

    To put it another way, about every 24 posts (on average) you chime in to remind everyone that they shouldn't be worried about having an opinion, to offer your own, or to provide some sanctimonious words of wisdom.

    #509 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Wow you really hold urself in high regard don't you, every thread? I don't care what you do, but if a SW fan can't see the greatness in that game then there has to be other issues, if you just simply hate it then fine and I'll refrain from commenting on anything you post from this time forward. Good day sir.

    You're harder to have a conversation with than a roll of wallpaper.

    #510 2 years ago

    Agreed. Laura Dern sucked...blue hair and all was mis-cast in this movie. Her best movie was Blue Velvet and all she did in that one was cry...a LOT.

    I did like the film though. Even approaching the original 3 films for likeability. Of course, I was 3 beers in 1/3 of the way through the film. =)

    Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

    I am a huge Star Wars fan and have been for a long time. Today at work I have felt so livid and upset with this movie its not even funny. All of your complaints are the same ones I have and I just can not believe this thing got past the writing room let alone got through anything. You

    forgot to add how horrible of a character and actor Rose was as well as Laura Dern having no significance in this movie and also just being a lame character. Also Poe and Finn not once having their characters being developed in any significant manner. Bringing Phasma back and then killing again (obviously didn't die in FA) was another just waste of time and head scratching experience. All 3 were thin lame characters in the first one and continue to be such here. Just an awful experience and I don't know if I can even sit through another 2 1/2 hours to even see if I can give it a second chance. It was exhausting to sit through. I can not add anything else for I will prob just smash my computer screen. Huge potential that in my opinion Disney just ran to the ground. Force Awakens had its fair share but I had no problems with that one. They did a good enough job for what they had and executed it. This was just a disappointment and I am sad that it came to this...o well. Just a movie but damn.

    #511 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    You're harder to have a conversation with than a roll of wallpaper.

    Wallpaper can be damn facinating, I have had my fair share of deep conversations with both wallpapered and painted walls, ceilings too and never a dull moment.

    #512 2 years ago

    I have to agree with you here about the PC stuff. Especially having cheerful young girl secretary types on the Empire's ships. There is a reason Lucas didn't have any female characters in the Empire's "army". They were supposed to be dark hearted. That's why he had women in the rebel resistance. With the good guys only!

    Quoted from McPin54:

    Can't beat the classics!
    Love Star Wars. Big fan as a kid growing up.
    Quit watching when they started sneaking in the political undertones a few years ago. Whether you're for the agenda or not please leave it out of my movies and sports. Those are usually my release from the world.......besides pinball
    Haven't seen the last 2 or 3 that came out and have no plans to.
    I feel bad for everyone that was disappointed.

    #513 2 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    You hold 21 of the 506 posts in this thread.
    To put it another way, about every 24 posts (on average) you chime in to remind everyone that they shouldn't be worried about having an opinion, to offer your own, or to provide some sanctimonious words of wisdom.

    Thank God you spelled sanctimonious correctly!

    #514 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Those things - and this thread - are all horrible and a direct result of Red Letter Media's success.
    EVERYBODY is a critic now. And most people really have no idea what they are talking about.

    People have been arguing about plays and movies being good or bad since day one.

    This is nothing new.

    The studios have more power to influence "professional reviewers" hence the high scores.

    Post a negative article? Be a damn shame if you lose access and perks of being a reviewer.

    And then Disney adds insult to injury by blaming the LA Times.

    “We regularly work with news organizations around the world that we don’t always agree with, but in this instance the L.A. Times showed a complete disregard for basic journalistic standards,”

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/la-times-you-cant-read-our-thor-review-because-disney-is-mad/

    http://deadline.com/2017/11/disney-los-angeles-times-battle-anaheim-coverage-boycott-1202201260/

    #515 2 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    You hold 21 of the 506 posts in this thread.
    .

    You are a post counter now? Surely you have more to offer.

    EVERYBODY in this thread has repeated their opinion 20 times!

    #516 2 years ago

    Do the Knights of Ren exist in this story anymore?

    #517 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Do the Knights of Ren exist in this story anymore?

    Their origin story was confirmed in this last episode, but other then that they seemed to have been ignored.

    #518 2 years ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    Their origin story was confirmed in this last episode, but other then that they seemed to have been ignored.

    It seems to be the only existing story line Rian Johnson did not conclude in this middle film.

    But he created a love story of Finn and Rose so we have that to look forward to in 9.

    #519 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    It seems to be the only existing story line Rian Johnson did not conclude in this middle film.
    But he created a love story of Finn and Rose so we have that to look forward to in 9.

    and what a disaster that was. They try to push this love story that happens over a period of 8 hours. and all of a sudden have this ever lasting love affair. Same with Fin and poe. They escaped together, had maybe 30 min together. But when they finally see each other again, they blow it up over the top, like they are long lost friends that knew each other for years.

    Then you have characters that have this build up to something, yet nothing every develops with them, and they get chumped out. like snoke and phasma. lets create these intriguing characters that are suppose to be powerful characters.....not use them , and just have them die off in easy pathetic ways.

    Man, what great writing. Nothing like writing a script that doesn't challenge the director or the viewer in any way.

    #520 2 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    Counterpoint. I am a Star Wars fan, and I like movies to give me something I didn't expect. This movie was made for the fans. Not all fans have the same taste.

    Fans wanted to find out who Rey's parents were [ACCESS DENIED]
    Fans wanted to know more about Snoke [ACCESS DENIED]
    Fans waited 2 years to see what Luke had to say [ACCESS GRANTED - Insert Lame Joke]

    I absolutely HATE the "Real Fan" arguments. You can be a fan of something and admit when they made a misstep. This movie was a pretty big mistake in the franchise. Now J.J.A has to spend most of episode 9 fixing the problems with the canon introduced by Rian Johnson. I hope they make Ep.9 a 2-parter cause its going to take like 4 hours to undo what's been done...

    -4
    #521 2 years ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    This movie was a pretty big mistake in the franchise. Now J.J.A has to spend most of episode 9 fixing the problems with the canon introduced by Rian Johnson. I hope they make Ep.9 a 2-parter cause its going to take like 4 hours to undo what's been done...

    child (resized).jpg

    #522 2 years ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    Fans wanted to find out who Rey's parents were [ACCESS DENIED]
    Fans wanted to know more about Snoke [ACCESS DENIED]
    Fans waited 2 years to see what Luke had to say [ACCESS GRANTED - Insert Lame Joke]
    I absolutely HATE the "Real Fan" arguments. You can be a fan of something and admit when they made a misstep. This movie was a pretty big mistake in the franchise. Now J.J.A has to spend most of episode 9 fixing the problems with the canon introduced by Rian Johnson. I hope they make Ep.9 a 2-parter cause its going to take like 4 hours to undo what's been done...

    I don't know if they can fix it. It was almost like rian had a vendetta to destroy the building blocks JJ put in place. The only way he could have made it worse was killing off all the characters he brought into EP7. Including Rey and Kylo. that would have completed the F.U. then see what he does for Ep9.

    #523 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You are a post counter now? Surely you have more to offer.
    EVERYBODY in this thread has repeated their opinion 20 times!

    What do you have to offer to the conversation? You haven't talked about anything regarding the movie and its plot/characters, just hating on the people who did not like the movie. But hey, you didnt like the new terminator movies but you go see them still. So we got that from ya.

    #524 2 years ago

    “I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character (Luke Skywalker).” Mark Hamill told TLJ director Rian Johnson, "I said ‘Jedis don’t give up’ I mean even if he had a problem, maybe take a year to try and regroup… but if he made a mistake he would try and right that wrong, so right there, we had a fundamental difference, but, it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story, and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective.”

    “That’s the crux of my problem,” he continued. “Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well, in this version, see. I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s ‘Jake’ Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker."

    "I still haven’t accepted it completely," he concluded "but it’s only a movie.”

    https://www.cbr.com/last-jedi-mark-hamill-reaction/

    #525 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Do the Knights of Ren exist in this story anymore?

    I saw something last night that said that the Knights of Ren were turned by Snoke and they made up his Elite Guard. Don't know if that was real or not.

    #526 2 years ago
    Quoted from Matesamo:

    "I still haven’t accepted it completely," he concluded "but it’s only a movie.”

    That's some wise Jedi wisdom right there folks!

    I can see why he's befuddled. Old people being forced to step aside often are.

    #527 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I saw something last night that said that the Knights of Ren were turned by Snoke and they made up his Elite Guard. Don't know if that was real or not.

    hmm, I would think they were force users tho (Luke saying Ben took some students with him, did they have light sabres in Reys flashback?), and the elite guard didnt show any force moves or light sabres...

    but..

    Kylo Ren and Rey did not use any force moves in that fight either. Would be a bummer if they killed them off too.

    I wonder what Levi thinks? He has added some riveting dialog to this conversation, I wonder if we can get some more great content from him.

    #528 2 years ago

    Here we go with the “you’re old” defense again. Such a prominent display of inarguable airtight logic.
    This movie can’t be lacking necessary plot points. It cant be disappointing to see our favorite heroes and the legacy which disney outright paid for fail.
    Everything new is good. Any dissentIng opinion is the product of the horrors of aging.

    Sure.

    #529 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    hmm, I would think they were force users tho (Luke saying Ben took some students with him, did they have light sabres in Reys flashback?), and the elite guard didnt show any force moves or light sabres...
    but..
    Kylo Ren and Rey did not use any force moves in that fight either. Would be a bummer if they killed them off too.
    I wonder what Levi thinks? He has added some riveting dialog to this conversation, I wonder if we can get some more great content from him.

    Yeah, the thing I saw said that Kylo took some students to form the Knights of Ren. They all fell in line with Snoke, Kylo Ren included. Kylo, being the standout among them was essentially poised to be the next Vader and the rest were part of the guard duty for Snoke. I don't understand why no force abilities were used there aside from maybe they were very untrained. The fight was light on force use from Rey and Kylo too. I thought that stood out as being weird.

    #530 2 years ago

    The argument that the Jedi don't give up isn't necessarily accurate.

    #531 2 years ago

    Remember when Luke was going to KILL BEN and then Ben used the force to crush a building on Luke.

    Then the elite guards were going to KILL KYLO and he was going to die until Rey saved him cause they did not use the force in any way.

    my feeble old 32 year old brain cant handle it!!!!!!!

    #532 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I saw something last night that said that the Knights of Ren were turned by Snoke and they made up his Elite Guard. Don't know if that was real or not.

    That could be, I don't see anything in the movie that would force JJ Abrams to go that route.

    #533 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Then you have characters that have this build up to something, yet nothing every develops with them, and they get chumped out. like snoke and phasma. lets create these intriguing characters that are suppose to be powerful characters.....not use them , and just have them die off

    I don't get the love for Phasma, was she a major player in the EU or something? The buildup to her pre Ep 7 was big, then she was lame. The build up for her pre Ep 8 was big, and she had more or a role, but again lame. I don't think it's Disney that's really pushing her though, it's seems to be fans, and I can't figure out why.

    In my opinion, she's a minor character, nothing really of interest, so I don't pay attention to her. Like one of the minor Empire Captains. Maybe some screen time and a line or two, but not a major player.

    But in articles and here people are excited about her and upset she wasn't more. Is it's because she's silver? Is it because she's a she? I don't get it.

    I loved the movie, FYI, much better than Force Awakens. And I'm an old timer for reference, I saw the first (Ep 4) at a drive-in as a kid. but I only follow the movies, not the books. Prequels were horrible.

    #534 2 years ago

    Are all Jedi who live long enough destined to become hermits?

    Obi-Wan Kenobi - Hermit on Tatooine (at least he was tasked with watching over Luke)

    Yoda - Hermit on Dagobah

    Luke - Hermit on Ahch-To (presumably for the access to really good milk and great spear fishing spots) He left a hidden map to find him so he can be a dick to whomever does find him. dope.

    Rey - TBD

    The entire start of 7 is trying to find this map to skywalker. all those poor folks died protecting that map fragment. and all luke wanted to do was drink some non-pasteurized alien tit milk

    #535 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rando:

    I don't get the love for Phasma

    Because it's Brienne of Tarth under there!

    Don't you know she's the one that brings the two biggest/weirdest fan-based fetishes together?

    In SW 9, she'll bring out some dragons or something stupid like that. Can't wait for both fan bases to go ape shit over it!

    #536 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Because it's Brienne of Tarth under there!
    Don't you know she's the one that brings the two biggest/weirdest fan-based fetishes together?
    In SW 9, she'll bring out some dragons or something stupid like that. Can't wait for both fan bases to go ape shit over it!

    While I thought the film was entertaining, I still think that Disney is ruining Star Wars with its over the top merchandising. Really, do we need an official "car of Star Wars"? While they are at it they might as well destroy it by combining it with other big hits like Game of Thrones, Star Trek, Battlestar, Stargate, and ...... the office. Jim from the office joins the dark side and then meets up with Captain Kirk...

    #537 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rando:

    I don't get the love for Phasma, was she a major player in the EU or something? The buildup to her pre Ep 7 was big, then she was lame. The build up for her pre Ep 8 was big, and she had more or a role, but again lame. I don't think it's Disney that's really pushing her though, it's seems to be fans, and I can't figure out why.

    Read a plot summary of Star Wars: Phasma. She's a psychopath and unbelievably dangerous. She's also extremely smart. You have to do independent reading away from the movies to really know any of that though.

    #538 2 years ago

    I thought the movie was good enough. I was disappointed with what becomes of Luke Skywalker. Supposedly a master Jedi but no wisdom whatsoever. He is the exact same dumb kid from the original movie, now just old. I guess what is hard for the people who grew up with this franchise to take is how our beloved original characters died so cheaply. I grew up loving the original movies so seeing Rey being more of a master Jedi than Luke and she has been a force user for about 4 hours. I would have rather seen a different plot angle like Luke eventually being seduced by the dark side and be much more like Vader, and be more machine than human. Snoke coming out of no where and having progressed so far in the force power department. Appeared more powerful than the Emperor but you never heard of him, how he came into power, or why he is so powerful. Last complaint I thought the yoga CGI was like 90’s quality CGI, it looked terrible. I still enjoyed it but I guess I’m more sad about the outcome of the characters than anything. I didn’t like how Han died, or Luke. I wish they would have dusted off Lando for this too. They could have easily made their contribution to the “New” generation more exciting or more shocking with some sort of dark side twist. My vote is better than the prequels but not better than the original three. Not better than rogue, or force awakens.

    #539 2 years ago
    Quoted from GreenMachine19:

    Last complaint I thought the yoga CGI was like 90’s quality CGI, it looked terrible.

    Yoda was a puppet, not cgi

    -1
    #540 2 years ago

    I actually liked the CGI Yoda better. Flame suit on.

    -4
    #541 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Yoda was a puppet, not cgi

    uhh...I mean...the puppet was terrible! It's 2017 why coudn't they use CGI?!

    #542 2 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Are all Jedi who live long enough destined to become hermits?
    Obi-Wan Kenobi - Hermit on Tatooine (at least he was tasked with watching over Luke)
    Yoda - Hermit on Dagobah

    Both were in hiding/exile as the Emperor was murdering all the Jedi in the galaxy.

    Kenobi was keeping an eye on Luke as he was growing up at the same time.

    #543 2 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    I actually liked the CGI Yoda better. Flame suit on.

    but you think colored bulbs in the GI sockets is ok too..so there's that .

    #544 2 years ago
    Quoted from GreenMachine19:

    I didn’t like how Han died, or Luke.

    Look into the personal beliefs of the director and Kathleen Kennedy and all will be illuminated.

    Han and Luke were deliberately run down, Luke more so as it matches what these two people feel.

    Ask yourself- Why would a director who has a single major (major being debatable, Looper) movie under his belt be given "free rein" over a very expensive franchise?

    Luke being destroyed was baked into the cake.

    #545 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rando:

    I don't get the love for Phasma, was she a major player in the EU or something? The buildup to her pre Ep 7 was big, then she was lame. The build up for her pre Ep 8 was big, and she had more or a role, but again lame. I don't think it's Disney that's really pushing her though, it's seems to be fans, and I can't figure out why.

    I think people just expected here to play a larger role in the series: marketing, cool looking, know actress, first major female villain, leader of the First Order, etc. I'm just not sure that fight with Finn was overly dramatic because her character was never really developed. I remember watching it thinking, "Was I supposed to be more vested in Phasma?"

    #547 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    uhh...I mean...the puppet was terrible! It's 2017 why coudn't they use CGI?!

    man, im gonna have to have Zen whop ya upside the head for me lol

    -1
    #548 2 years ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    The argument that the Jedi don't give up isn't necessarily accurate.

    Maybe, have any examples?

    Is the Yoda statement “anger leads to hate” from Episode 1 accurate? Not to me anyway. Seems glib. Just part of a slick statement used in the support of his argument. Which he ultimately rolls over on with very little pressure at all by Obi Wan (maybe Kenobi mind tricked Master Yoda?).

    It’s seems Jedi at the highest levels have made plenty of incorrect assumptions and mistakes over the years. Not to mention being pretty lame at identifying the actions and movements of the Dark Side at various times over the series. Even when it’s right under their nose!

    “Cloudy, hard to see, the dark side”, blah blah blah. Maybe that’s why the Sith only need two (never less, never more and NEVER explained) people to routinely dominate the “light side” of the force. Hell, more often than not it takes another “dark sider” to kill the most powerful villains (Vader with Darth Sidius and REN with Snoke).

    I’m noticing a pattern here! Maybe the Jedi just don’t pack the gear and it’s time for something new, like Rey, to take care of business.

    -1
    #549 2 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Read a plot summary of Star Wars: Phasma. She's a psychopath and unbelievably dangerous. She's also extremely smart. You have to do independent reading away from the movies to really know any of that though.

    Screw that. She’s this trilogy’s Boba Fett. A do nothing fan nerd obsession.

    #550 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rando:

    I don't get the love for Phasma, was she a major player in the EU or something? The buildup to her pre Ep 7 was big, then she was lame. The build up for her pre Ep 8 was big, and she had more or a role, but again lame. I don't think it's Disney that's really pushing her though, it's seems to be fans, and I can't figure out why.
    In my opinion, she's a minor character, nothing really of interest, so I don't pay attention to her. Like one of the minor Empire Captains. Maybe some screen time and a line or two, but not a major player.
    But in articles and here people are excited about her and upset she wasn't more. Is it's because she's silver? Is it because she's a she? I don't get it.

    You're not wrong, Phasma has like three lines of dialog and is a forgettable character. People got hyped about her for one reason and one reason only, which is that she's silver. But Di$ney probably sold several million dollars worth of toys because people were psyched about a storm trooper with a color scheme other than black and white.

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