Do you like pinball less after playing xbox or ps5 games? Theres your answer.

I played my OG AFM for the first time in many months, after a recent steady diet of Maiden, R&M, JP, etc. It still kicks ass and isn't going anywhere. Deep rules are fun, but so is "just make the shots."

I've got a good mix of modern and old games. There are plenty of times where I just want to hit the ball around and score. Sometimes the complexity of modern game rulesets is exhausting. For some, it's more like, "spoiled by simple rulesets"

Not sure if it’s the same kind of comparison, but I enjoy a good solid gaming session on my EMs just as much as I do on my WH2O and AFM.

I might be in a different camp though. I prefer my games to be short and brutal. Long drawn out games with deep rules sorta wear me down and it feels like a slog to get through them every time. But I totally get the allure.

This is a great question, and have often wondered this myself. I agree more complex rules/mode don't equal more fun, but it's always good to have more to do on a game, especially in a smaller collection (my only point of reference). That being said, I miss Whirlwind and JM more than TSPP

I find that games designed to have shorter ball times can get away with rules that aren't super deep but feel just right. Games like FT and Iron Man are still just as fun to play in their own regards.

I would say "yes, I am spoiled by modern code", but it's more of an "it depends".

In my home collection, I definitely find myself drawn towards the newer games. As I own a game, I really like the sense of discovery, and finding new modes or levels that it has to offer. I find that when I "beat" a game, it loses a bit of its luster and tends to get sold soon thereafter.

Now, in the location or pinball show side of things, I totally love playing all eras of games. Like others have said, it's a ton of fun to re-visit older titles and enjoy the game for what it is.

No, but I sure don't play my Sega Genesis very much with my Xbox sitting there...

Later,
EV

Good post. To each his/her own obviously but for me I need both. If I had all deep code machines I prob wouldn’t play as much. I love having a few options depending on my mood. Pound through shot making on a MB/MMR or dig in for a 45min LoTR/Hobbit/TSPP. But the shots have to be good or challenging. If it’s shallow code and ehh shots, bores me very quickly.

Nope.

Of course I also dont think "modern code" is one easily defined thing, There's some of it that I would gladly never play again.
There's also games like GOT & SW that I think is next level code, but don't need it on every game.

Good question, my answer; my favorite two pins sit up in my office, away from the rest in the barcade. One has a fairly deep and wide ruleset, though not the deepest or widest, the other, not so much, but both are equally enjoyable to me.

Both are fast, flowy and just plain fun. Both have their place.

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We ( wife an I ) very limited LCD title experiences . My preference DMD . Better flow . I also would like option on modern sterns to overide the flow disruption that pause. gameplay when animations are running .

Preference for uninterrupted flow gets my vote .

Shane

I think for home use, newer games spoil you. They take longer to explore. Not saying the older games aren't as fun, but I definitely tire of them quicker.

If you have a smaller collection, I think you have to go with newer games. I have 6, and 3 are from the 90s, and the rest are 2015+. That ratio seems to work for me, but everyone is different of course.

Nope. Not at all. On the contrary, I get a wee bit bored of all the rules sometimes. I feel if you like deep rules, maybe just play a video game. When I play pinball I wanna play pinball. I enjoy all games, and don't understand why one wouldn't want to play good old games, too.

Ya rules get me frustrated at times, trying to remember this and that and nail this one shot. It has its place, for sure. But I find myself enjoying fast/flow games with obvious rules and no interruption, probably why IMDN cause it always calls out and visualizes rule set perfectly and Playboy so rarely stops; hardly have time to even look at the titties I unlock!

I'll play and enjoy the class of 92-98 over modern games nearly ANY day of the week.

Now that I think about it, while at Trent's pinball get together, I played 1 game of EHOH and 1 game of Mandalorian. I played 2 games on Indy500 alone, not to mention Tron, IM, Corvette, BOP, STTNG and HS2.

If I didnt pay per game on most modern games, I'd walk away on ball 1 or 2. Only exceptions are AIQ, ST, and JP.

“Modern code” can mean beatles or it can mean LOTR. Doesn’t really matter.

I don’t think too many people care, or we’d be seeing the value drop on those 90s games. Instead they continue to rise.

I just love pinball.

Nope, I actually really like going back to the simple code of AFM after trying to figure out the complexities on an Elwin game

Yes

having 3 B/W start them on factory settings and progressively make them harder as I progress!

Deep puts me to sleep. Do I really feel like starting another potentially 45 minute game just so I can come up short again? Potentially exciting, sure, but almost always aggravating and disappointing. Rather than "one more game!" I need a nap.

My favorite game ever now is Rick and Morty. Not a deep ruleset, a WIDE ruleset. Between the many Adventures and the dozens of Dimensions, no two games are the same. Some Dimensions even affect your ability to complete the current Adventure, while others can make them more lucrative! And it took a while to click for me, but the AntiGravity (magnasave) implementation is so fun and rewarding that other games feel like they are missing something now. Plus it's the funniest game I ever played. Funnest and funniest!

So I suppose in a way I have been spoiled by modern code, as this recent game has me ignoring all my other games for going on a year now!

(Unfortunately it needs a lot of tweaking and dialing in to get it playing right. So much so that it's like two different games, untweaked R&M and dialed in R&M. Would that only examples of the latter got rated! On some, it's apparently impossible to hit the garage shot. I make it ten or twenty times a game...)

I bought my TSPP without playing it for more than 3 games. I bought it because I thought I need a deeper pin. During the 1st three months I have no idea what I need to do. Thanks god people made a few great tutorials on youtube but to understand the whole game I need to watch either 43+mins or 133+mins long videos. Now I fully understand the game and appreciate the people who did all the coding but if the newer pinball machines are more deeper than TSPP. I will more likely not buying those newer pins because it took me 3 mins to explain to my 6 yrs kid how to play AFM but it took me 20+ mins to explain to her how to play TSPP. The sad thing was we both run out of patience after 20 mins and she never play TSPP again

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How did you get 20 minutes out of "get the ball into the living room to get locks and TV modes?"

No need to overexplain. Simpsons is deep but not complicated.. there's like 4 main things to do: start TV modes, start couch multiball, start Itchy/Scratchy multiball, start Otto 2x scoring. Things like daredevil bart and treehouse and cletus and all can come later once you and her are familiar with the basics.

This is how to approach any "deep" pin... find how to start the main multiballs and mode features first then work from there. Depth is in stacking things for maximum scoring efficiency...

Most DMD games have absolutely perfect rulesets that match the layouts & themes perfectly. Any deep LCD era game doesn’t take away from that. I have a JP Prem - super deep and complex and very cool, but I don’t need every game to be like that. I wouldn’t consider any great DMD game to be “deficient”.

I'm spoiled by Lyman, yes. TWD and EHOH are so good, it's ridiculous.

EM lovers are getting a kick out of this thread.

LTG : )

...just to add onto my thoughts, I generally prefer DMD era rulesets to LCD. While I love JP, there is definitely too much going on to really comprehend it all, and there's no way I can tell what those tiny text boxes on the screen say or how they're affecting my score. I understand how to progress thru the park, rescue people and catch Dinos...I understand the T-Rex modes, the smart missile, the various multiballs. The perks, fossils, and other things? I'll never memorize those, why they matter or how I should play differently because of them. I could say the same about AC/DC, a deep Lyman DMD game. I love what I understand...I don't pay attention to a lot of the crazy tourney/scoring nuance. Sometimes less is more....I can only multitask so much in a fast paced pinball game....for someone like me, most DMD era rules are perfection. Easily understood and as a player, deep enough, and I'm totally in sync with them during play.

Hit both flipper buttons on a stern and it skips animations.

We’re cut from the same cloth
I couldn’t have said it better

If you guys love deep rules, play Civilization 6.

whoa- what is that playfield?!

Atlantis for the win!

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I read DW didn't sell too well because the rules were too complicated. Effing unbleviable.

I believe the biggest issue isn't depth of code, but unfinished code, which those old games didn't have.

90's DMD area games are about as much code as I can remember for a game. So no, not spoiled at all with LCD games. Not saying I don't like and enjoy newer games. I'm not going to remember most of what's going on so it's pretty much just shoot the blinking lights.

I like having a balanced collection. Sometimes I want to cash in on a built up playfield multiplier with stacked modes and multiballs and sometimes I just want to rip spinners. I feel like I’m getting more spoiled by modern flippers (Stern) than code. Just so tight and snappy.

Barny's Purp'd Adventure?

Now THIS I cant get behind. Entire post - I agree.

Not the B/W stuff, but some of those Whitestar Stern’s like CSI…absolutely. CSI has one of the best layouts in pinball, if it had modern code it would be a top ten machine…24 also has a good layout and same thing… The code of the B/W machines was always balanced and fun, some of those mid to late 00’s Stern’s though…*shivers*

*Shivers* indeed!

Short answer no.

Long answer noooo.

I feel like some of the modern games cover up for their rule deficiencies by being complex enough that you have to really analyze them to see what is going on.

I am probably more critical of DMD games than the average collector, but in my opinion complexity or depth for it's own sake detracts from the replay value of the game.

Speaking of the Playboy? The guy I bought it from put a ton of well-paid custom into it; custom habitrails in pink being the best, and my wife’s favorite. It’s museum quality condition and play; I’d put it up any day of the week as the best Playboy example/condition in the world. Seriously impressed, well before my mods even. Thanks for the jaw-drop!

Edit: here’s a full pic of pf

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Every single "rule set" these days is predicated on some sort of multiball or other...
Sorry, but for the most part, I kinda hate multiball. Most of the time it's multiball for multiball's sake. Plus, past like 3 balls, it kinda gets ridiculous.
If I gotta play multimultiball, gimme a Ballsapoppin multiball over any mode any day. Harder to get too, with that shallow saucer. And I think BallsaPoppin is all about that theme!
For those of you looking at my collection...
When I play my Space Shuttle, I concentrate on the drops and spinner and, if the right one is lit, the SHUTTLE.
Excalibur is only 2 ball, and I gotta admit it's kinda fun to try to get the 2 balls alternating the ramp, but Excalibur is gone soon.
Funhouse is gone soon, but I hate the quick multiball. The regular 3 ball one is kinda fun.
De Simpsons has that groovy try-to-get-that-third-ball thing which I like, and I do like the Mousing Around multiball, too... I'm picking up one soon!

But these are kinda exceptions.

Plus, I like short ball times...

The P3 has a new game called “Heist” which mixes traditional mode based (shot based) gameplay with some really creative optional side modes specific to each of the 6 characters in the game. There are several multi balls but is is restrained, with a lock-3-balls MB, an add a ball, another one based on collecting “money” floating down the play field, and a couple mini wizard modes

There is a ton to do, but non-linear so you can use alternate strategies and the game is different each time. Perfect example of 90s Dmd style Rules and a LOT of unique ideas

+1

Oldest games in my house are a couple of wood rails. Newest is Ghostbusters. I have everything in between.

Damn that’s beautiful! Thanks for the info.

Thank you, and you’re welcome! Let me know if you ever get to play one and your thoughts.