(Topic ID: 310638)

Spirit of 76 Gottlieb Score Reels and Bonus Value

By mikiemike1

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 56 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by mikiemike1
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

1E676AD0-614E-4739-AF6C-1A7E2DD88CE6.jpeg
2145711B-0567-4EB3-8F43-4752BA30CA58.jpeg
41EA04BB-C43F-491E-9FEE-8D87FECE707F.jpeg
D0636CD0-817D-4D88-853E-26F11B033B16.jpeg
Subtract bonus jumpers (resized).jpg
S76 double bonus error (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
LB relay (resized).jpg
S76 double bonus error (resized).jpg
Spirit of 76 score reel reset (resized).jpg
There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

Hi,
My Spirit of 76 is acting up with only player 1. The hundreds and thousands score reels score properly but they do not reset back to zero. Looked at all the switches on both and they seem to be fine.

The only other thing is is that the bonus value seems to double for every player and the double bonus when lit only comes on with ball number five for every player.

Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

Regards,

mikiemike1

#2 2 years ago

Oh, the only other thing is is when the reels are on “9” they do turn over to zero.

#3 2 years ago

You need to clean/rebuild the score reels. On these, the amount of pressure from the contacts can affect whether or not the score reels will index to zero.

Since you need to clean the score reels, you likely need to clean the stepper units, especially the pivots. Make sure you review some videos for step by step hints. There's a special threaded bolt (Screw head and shoulder) with a nut behind it that will often be broken during disassembly. PBR has those.

#4 2 years ago

Thanks for the reply. I did clean the hundreds reel, no change.

#5 2 years ago

Sounds like the runout switches are opening too early on the hundreds and thousands score reels.

Check the gap and clean. The runout switch should be the one in the middle between the zero and 9s switches. The runout switch should be closed always except for when the reel is at zero.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

player 1. The hundreds and thousands score reels score properly but they do not reset back to zero.

In addition to the Runout switches Sea_Wolf mentioned it could also be switches on the Z1/1st & 2nd Player Reset relay:
Spirit of 76 score reel reset (resized).jpgSpirit of 76 score reel reset (resized).jpg
/Mark

#7 2 years ago

All switches seem to be fine.The Z1 relay appears to be in order too. Any other thoughts?

#8 2 years ago

If youve already compared the 3 switch positions 1-8,9 and 0 to a working reel and believe they are adjusted properly, id pull out one of the problem reels during reset and apply some light pressure to the closed switches to and see if it advance to zero. If that works, try and clean contacts/adjust the switch leafs. If that did not work, id try and clean the switches on z1.

#9 2 years ago

Bonzo71, cleaned Z1…. Applied pressure to the 3 switches on the reels and they spun, so I guess it’s a matter of adjusting finicky reel switches?

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

Bonzo71, cleaned Z1…. Applied pressure to the 3 switches on the reels and they spun, so I guess it’s a matter of adjusting finicky reel switches?

If the contacts are touching, but do not react until you apply light pressue, try cleaning the contacts first. I use a metal revlon nail file for the contacts. If that still is not enough, try some slight adjustment of the stationary switch leafs to ensure a slighly tighter switch closure.

#11 2 years ago

The score reels are fixed. Thanks!

Now to the second part of my dilemma. The bonus values seem to double up. For example when you have 1000 bonus value, it awards 2000.

The double bonus light when lit only comes on during ball number five.

Any thoughts?

Please advise and thanks!

mikiemike

#12 2 years ago

My Spirit of 76 reset animation might be of assistance.
You can pause or rewind any part of interest:
https://rumble.com/vtu4f3-1971-1976-gottlieb-pinball-4-player-reset-sequence-animation.html

#13 2 years ago

The LB/Double Bonus relay is a trip relay in the Sequence Bank mounted under the playfield at the very back. It controls whether you get a single or double bonus. It has four normally closed switches. One of them may be stuck open or dirty.

There are wing nuts on either end of the trip relay bank that let you swing the trip relay bank open when they're loosened. Just be sure to fully reseat the trip relay bank and tighten the wing nuts when you put it back or you can cause other problems.

#14 2 years ago

No wing nuts. Removed the J relay an cleaned the contacts. Also cleaned the 500 pt bonus relay.

Question: which switches on the J relay should I be looking at?

#15 2 years ago

Please get wing nuts. If it’s floating free it will do odd things.

I have a So76 and forgot to put the wing nuts back once. Weird things will happen.

#16 2 years ago

If you are receiving double bonus and neither J nor LB are actuated, check out these two switches on the attached schematic. If either one is misadjusted and open, I'd think that would result in "double bonus-like" behavior. You'd get 2 bonus subtracts and 5000 points per motor cycle.
S76 double bonus error (resized).jpgS76 double bonus error (resized).jpg

As MarkG and Garrett stated above - the torque applied to the relay bank, if it is not firmly seated and the wing nuts tightened securely, might be the cause of the switch on LB being out of adjustment.

#17 2 years ago

Pardon my ignorance, but which switch is LB?

#18 2 years ago

LB is a relay, see MarkG post above, are your relays in that bank labelled?

#19 2 years ago

If you mean under the playfield, no

#20 2 years ago

Mounted to the underside of the playfield itself, not on the motor board.

#21 2 years ago

Yes, no labels across that bank

#22 2 years ago

Should be able to identify it from the wire colors.

LB relay (resized).jpgLB relay (resized).jpg

Actually, it looks like it's the first relay on the right (on the sample game), but verify with wire colors

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2293&picno=74931&zoom=1

#23 2 years ago

Yes, cleaned and adjusted it. No resolve. Now ball 5 light doesn’t light.

Any suggestions for both problems?

Thanks for your help.

#24 2 years ago

Is the relay bank rotated fully back into its operating position and wing nuts tight?

Have you checked the Ball 5 bulb?

Does the "Double Bonus" light come on for the fifth ball?

Did you clean and adjust the switch on J?

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

which switch is LB?

Quoted from DaMoib:

LB is a relay, see MarkG post above, are your relays in that bank labelled?

Quoted from mikiemike1:

If you mean under the playfield, no

Quoted from DaMoib:

Mounted to the underside of the playfield itself, not on the motor board.

Quoted from mikiemike1:

no labels across that bank

The sequence bank relays are shown in order on the schematic. LB is on one end with an A-15359 coil.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#26 2 years ago
Quoted from DaMoib:

Is the relay bank rotated fully back into its operating position and wing nuts tight?
Have you checked the Ball 5 bulb?
Does the "Double Bonus" light come on for the fifth ball?
Did you clean and adjust the switch on J?

Yes, bank seated and tightened
Ball 5 bulb works but doesn’t light
Double bonus light comes on at ball 5
J switch cleaned and adjusted.

Bonus still awards double
5 ball light now doesn’t light

#27 2 years ago

Ball 5 and Double Bonus light are the same wire... and Ball 5 is closest to the source (the Player Unit), trace the wire (blue) and check the ball 5 lamp socket.

Use a DMM on the blue wire on the socket, what voltage is it at?

#28 2 years ago

Will check.

I don’t know if I’m clear in the doubling up on bonus. The bonus lights go up and awards the correct amount.

It’s when the ball drains and the bonus counts down and totals up the bonus that the bonus is doubled.

#29 2 years ago

Could you do an experiment for the bonus issue? On ball 1, drop 3 targets (one at a time), scoring 3000 bonus (on the "Bonus Value" playfield lights) then let the ball drain... exactly how much does the score increase as a result of the 3000 bonus?

#30 2 years ago

Dropped 3 targets: score 1500 and bonus value 3000

Drain ball: total score 8500

#31 2 years ago

Great, that is consistent with the error in the bonus path (5000 on first motor turn with 2 bonus subtracts and 2000 on the second with the last bonus subtract). Do you have jumpers? Can you short from point "A" to point "B" on the attached schematic (ignore the red arrows) and repeat the test?

S76 double bonus error (resized).jpgS76 double bonus error (resized).jpg
#32 2 years ago

The short works:
Drop 3 drop targets 1500 / 3000 bonus value
Drain ball 4500 total score

What needs to be done?

#33 2 years ago

Short one of the switches, do the test again, then short the other one and retest - that will tell you which of the two needs adjustment.

#34 2 years ago

OK, but how would I short each individual switch? Sorry, I’m very new to this.

#35 2 years ago

Consider the wire between the two switches (BL-YEL) as point "C". For the first test jumper between A and C and for the second test jumper between C and B.

#36 2 years ago

I’m sorry. I don’t follow

#37 2 years ago

The last test you ran determined that either the LB switch *or* J switch is not closed and, as a result, is causing your double bonus problem. Now, we're trying to determine *exactly* which switch is causing the problem, so we'll conduct two more tests. The first test will be to jumper (short) from Point A to Point C to determine if LB is causing the problem. Then run a second test with the jumper from Point C to Point B to see if J is the issue.

Report the results back and then we'll determine the next step.

Subtract bonus jumpers (resized).jpgSubtract bonus jumpers (resized).jpg
#38 2 years ago

I see the LB switch wire denoted as blue/yellow.
Would I need too attach the jumper to blue/yellow on the J switch? I don’t see a color on the schematic.

#39 2 years ago

I originally attached the blue yellow wire on LB to the yellow blue wire on 3c of the score motor getting the correct score result.

#40 2 years ago

According to the schematic, that BL-YEL is connected to both the LB switch and the J switch. You can connect it to either place.

The other end of the J switch has a GR+RED wire - to find a color of a wire, you need to follow that wire on the schematic until you see a color.

You should also start reading some background material that might answer many of your questions (reading schematics, wire colors, types of switches, cleaning and adjusting switches, etc.). Here's a good reference:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm

#41 2 years ago

The j switch doesn’t have a green/red wire

#42 2 years ago

Are you saying that your J switch does not have that color wire, or you don’t see it on the schematic?

#43 2 years ago

I see it in the schematic. The j switch itself doesn’t have that color wire attached to it.

#44 2 years ago

What color wires are on that J switch on your machine?

#45 2 years ago

The wires are a bit dusty. But if I do the yellow blue switch on 3c on the score motor and attach it to the LB switch blue yellow it records the proper amount.

If I attach the end of the jumper to the yellow blue on the J switch it scores properly and if I short out which I assume is the red green switch again it scores properly.

As soon as I remove the clip it doubles the score.

#46 2 years ago

Can you mark up the schematic, or send a picture of what you are jumpering? I'm not understanding statements like "But if I do the yellow blue switch on 3c on the score motor" - that is not on the schematic that I've included.

#47 2 years ago

New problem:

Ball stays on ball 1 always
Does not advance to players 2-4

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

New problem:
Ball stays on ball 1 always
Does not advance to players 2-4

1) Does the Player unit solenoid try to advance?
2) What does the Advance Player Unit relay do when this happens?

#49 2 years ago

The player unit does not fire anymore. I can manually move it forward and score points on all 4 players.

It will reset all reels, but it perpetually stays on ball 1 / player 1 after the reset.

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from mikiemike1:

Ball stays on ball 1 always
Does not advance to players 2-4

Quoted from HowardR:

2) What does the Advance Player Unit relay do when this happens?

There's a relay in the machine labeled "P". That's the Advance Player Unit relay.

What is that "P" relay doing when the game stays on ball 1 player 1?

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
1,200 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Columbus, OH
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spirit-of-76-gottlieb-score-reels-and-bonus-value and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.