(Topic ID: 297869)

Spin a card keeps buzzing!

By Redcloud

1 year ago


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  • 42 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 months ago by Redcloud
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#1 1 year ago

Hey everyone! Totally new to this site and to pinball repair. Just acquired a Gottlieb Spin A Card and have a few issues. When first powering up I was able to play after the ball drained once, before it drained nothing worked. Now, after replacing a few bulbs, it just keeps buzzing after it sends the ball to the plunger. All score reels seem to work and the machine will play but the 1 point relay seems stuck? Just getting started on bringing this game back to optimum playing performance so any and all help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Redcloud

#2 1 year ago

Hi Bill, Welcome to pinside!!

If the 1 point relay locks on as soon as you start a new game, you almost certainly have a stuck playfield switch.

#3 1 year ago

Where is the buzzing coming from? The coin lockout coil is a common culprit.

#4 1 year ago

HowardR,thank you for the welcome and thank you for the response! Please forgive my ignorance as I am as green as you get. I collect and repair antique clocks so figured….I can bring one of these back to life….lol. Could you please guide me to where I might find this “stuck playfield switch”?
Thanks for your help,
Bill

#5 1 year ago

Thank you for the reply, Fulltilt! Love the avatar! One of my favorite movies and actor! The buzzing seems to be coming from the lower right of the back of the head. The coil plunger directly underneath the bell engages but will not drop. The bell is in the upper right corner of my pic.
Thank you very much for the response!
Bill

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#6 1 year ago

Can you guys please point me in the right direction to troubleshoot this Spin A Card? I can’t track down this stuck switch…..it’s driving me nuts!! I don’t have a schematic and I’m as new to this as you can get. HELP

#7 1 year ago

Look on the playfield at all the switches that score one point. Many of them will be at the margins of the playfield. Try pulling the slingshot rubbers out a bit, does a switch open up? Look at the other features that score points and see if the switches are making contact. If so open them up and see if the buzzing goes away.

#8 1 year ago

BTW, did you mean ten point relay? I have a Pop A Card and it has a dummy reel for the ones, the least it can score is in 10 point increments

#9 1 year ago

I think the only features that score ten points are the bouncing rubbers about two thirds of the way up the play field on either side and the four pop bumpers. As a quick check pull the rubbers back and see if a switch opens up. For the bumpers, look at them under the playfield and see if the switch arrangement looks different on one of them.

#10 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure the bell in the photo is the 1 pt bell. There is a larger, 100 pt bell in another corner of the back box. Beware that the bell solenoid that is stuck on should not be left on for more than a few seconds. It will easily start to overheat and melt the nylon sleeve and do other bad things.

The 1 point bell is driven by the N/1 point relay (in red) as shown below:
Spin A Card 1 pt relay (resized).jpg
The first step is to establish whether the N/1 point relay is also stuck on as HowardR suggested. It's one of the 4 relays mounted just above the bell, along with the L/100 point and M/10 point relays. If your relay labels are missing you can identify the N/1 point relay by the wire colors soldered to the relay coil lugs (Slate-White-Red and Black).

If the N relay is not stuck on the switch on the relay (in red above) that drives the bell may be stuck closed.

If the N relay is stuck on then you need to find and examine the nine switches circled in red that can cause the N relay to fire. The N switch at the top of the schematic is one of the switches mounted to the N relay itself. The next four switches are on the playfield, likely behind rebound rubbers. Again use wire colors if you need to to verify that you're looking at the right switch. The two "kicking rubber" or sling shot switches are mounted either behind the sling shot rebound rubber, or below the playfield. The I and J switches are mounted to the green and yellow pop bumper relays, not the pop bumpers themselves. They're likely mounted under the playfield.

/Mark

#11 1 year ago

Thanks for the info hjh632 and MarkG! I can’t wait to get home from work to investigate. It is very nice of you both to chime in….it gives me somewhere to start. The game worked, mostly, when I brought it home and tried it,….then I started changing burnt bulbs and the trouble began.I may have unknowingly tweaked a switch?
I’ll keep you posted.
ps….hjh632….I can’t find anywhere on the play field that scores just one point…..the lowest increment that I can tell is ten points. Does the ones have something to do with the “match”function?
Many thanks gentlemen!

#12 1 year ago

If you look closely at https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2288&picno=8889&zoom=1 for example you can see switches on either side of the playfield behind rebound rubbers that are not labeled: on the left just below the red J target and on the right just below the 4 target. Those are likely 1 pt switches. There may be another pair just below the top arch in the rebound rubbers there.

#13 1 year ago

Thanks, MarkG and hjh632! You guys were right! The switch that was stuck on was the behind the rebound rubber directly below the 4! No more buzzing! Awesome!! Now to work out a few more issues. One yellow pop bumper is not working and the 500 point center target resets my score and makes the flippers inoperative momentarily. The 500 point chute at the top does the same thing….resets the score to zero. The score also resets after every ball.
Very much appreciate all of the help, Mark!
Thanks

#14 1 year ago

Glad that worked - I was working off a sister machine, Hearts and Spades, hence the confusion on the 1 point/10points. But stuck on scoring often leads back to a stuck on switch no matter how many points.

#15 1 year ago

hjh632….it does give out one point when you hit a couple of the rebound bumpers. Nowhere on the PF does it say one point awarded. Thanks again for the tips. So Hearts and Spades is very similar?

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from hjh632:

Glad that worked - I was working off a sister machine, Hearts and Spades, hence the confusion on the 1 point/10points. But stuck on scoring often leads back to a stuck on switch no matter how many points.

Any idea why it keeps resetting the score after every ball?

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Redcloud:

Any idea why it keeps resetting the score after every ball?

What's the state of these 4 switches on the Reset (DB) relay when this happens?

pasted_image (resized).png
#18 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What's the state of these 4 switches on the Reset (DB) relay when this happens?
[quoted image]

HowardR….what am I looking for on the four switches? Inspecting them as it’s resetting?,,after resetting? The score literally resets after every ball, if I hit the center target, if it goes down the 500 chute, at the top….and when it resets, it disables my flippers momentarily. Lots of crazy issues for a beginner

#19 1 year ago

Are those 4 switches open or closed during game play?
If you run the motor after reset and scoring some points, does the score reset then too?

#20 1 year ago

HowardR, yes it resets in various modes, targets and chutes, mostly. While it is resetting my score, my flippers are disabled, temporarily.

#21 1 year ago

Howard….it resets the score if it goes down the 500 point chute at the top, if it lands I one of the spin kick outs or if it strikes the center, 500 point drop target….all of these momentarily disable the flipper operation until the score finishes resetting to zero….maybe five seconds or so.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Redcloud:

Lots of crazy issues for a beginner

Probably mentioned already but PBR could likely hook you up with the schematics.

#23 1 year ago

Hey Fulltilt……thanks for the reply! Got one coming from PBR………….now to get someone to interpret it for me

#24 1 year ago

The relevant parts of the reset sequence are

1) Pressing replay button activates the Start relay (S)
2) A switch on the Start relay trips the Control Bank's Start relay (SB)
3) A switch on the Control Bank's Start relay fires the 2 Bank reset solenoids
4) This latches the Reset relay (DB)
5) Switches on the Reset relay (DB) reset the score reels
6) When all 4 score reels are on zero, DB should trip

If you carefully track this process during game reset, I think you'll find that everything works correctly until step 6 (tripping the DB relay on the Control bank) which is not happening

#25 1 year ago

Howard, as always thank you for the expert advice. This will come in very handy. My problem has gotten more complicated. While waiting for a response…I decided that I may as well replace all of the burnt out bulbs, replacing all with the cooler burning #47s, now when I attempt start up the score motor will not stop spinning! Oh man……this is giving me a lot of frustration. At this point I can’t even run through the reset sequence!!

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from Redcloud:

I can’t even run through the reset sequence

How far is it getting in the sequence I listed above?

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

How far is it getting in the sequence I listed above?

I’m having to unplug the machine to get it to stop spinning. The replay button does nothing!

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#28 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

How far is it getting in the sequence I listed above?

This bank just keeps going up and down….never stopping unless I unplug the machine!

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#29 1 year ago

Your last photo shows the control bank of trip relays (mounted below the playfield at the back end) in its service position. Ordinarily the bank should be rolled forward so the wing nuts on either end sit inside the brackets that are mounted to the playfield. (see https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2288&picno=34459&zoom=1 for example). If you're running the game with the bank open that might be part of your problem. The SB Armature switch (the lone switch on the underside of the trip bank in your photo) for example might not work as intended with the trip bank in this position. Other switches may be forced open or closed depending on the position of the playfield.

Was this game moved with the trip bank unsecured as shown? That might explain some of your issues. The bank flailing about inside the game might have mangled switches in the bank or on the relays below. The score motor has a similar ability to swing up for servicing if the hair pin is removed and can suffer the same way when not secured.

BTW, since you're new to the hobby, I'd encourage you to read up on how these games work. There's plenty of good information in this forum and on other sites like:
- https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair
- http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm
- https://www.funwithpinball.com/ (shameless plug)
and plenty of others.

The suggestions you'll get in this topic will make a lot more sense if you develop some understanding on how the devices should work.

#30 1 year ago

MarkG, thank you for the pointers and the links. I was on pinwiki and pinrepair but the funwithpinball site is phenomenal! I’ve been reading it all afternoon,…thank you so much! I’m familiarizing myself with the components and lingo and it’s helping with my comfort level, immensely.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

How far is it getting in the sequence I listed above?

Harold, thanks to everyone’s help, on here, I’m at the point of the score reels all set to zero, ball kicks out and the game will play. Still having issues with the score resetting while game is in progress. Am I looking for the tripping of the DB relay on the control bank, or is there something going on in the score motor? Still waiting on my schematics.

#32 1 year ago

Can you clarify when and how your score reels are resetting? It sounds like they all successfully reset to zero at the start of a new game. What happens when they reset after that? Do they reset all the way back to zero from any value, or do they just take five steps forward (e.g. from 3 to 8)?

I think HowardR is suggesting that if your DB relay is not tripping once the score reels have reset to zero, then your score reels will advance unexpectedly throughout the game. If you look at his schematic above all four score reels have a circuit through switches on the DB relay that also goes back to a common "Motor 1A switch". Any time the score motor runs during a game the Motor 1A switch will close 5 times for each 1/3 turn of the score motor. If those DB relay switches are closed and the score reel is not already showing a zero, those five pulses will advance each score reel five times, or fewer if the score reaches zero with fewer than five pulses.

There are four normally closed switches and one make/break switch on the DB relay in the control bank. Examine the relay with the power off and figure out how to manually trip it and reset it. Once you've figured that out examine the five switches. Each switch should change state (open to closed or closed to open) between the tripped and not tripped positions of the relay. If they're not doing that with the power off they may need adjustment.

The solder tabs or wires of those switches may also be shorted so look for signs of things touching that shouldn't be around the DB relay.

The fact that your flippers drop out briefly as the scores reset indicates that your DB relay may be firing after reset has completed. Watch the relay as you manually hit targets to see if it does trip. If it does we'll need to understand why. That may be due to the score reel runout switches being stuck closed or shorted and might be the next thing to check.

#33 1 year ago

On the reset bank , is there an switch actuator missing ?

Spin a card trip bank a (resized).jpg

Spin a card trip bank b (resized).jpg

#34 1 year ago

Yep, it would look that way, heres a couple of pics from my spare SAC playfield:

20210811_104136 (resized).jpg20210811_104148 (resized).jpg
#35 1 year ago
Quoted from chas10e:

On the reset bank , is there an switch actuator missing ?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

chas10e…. Good eye, chas10e! There used to be one missing…….I fabricated one out of some old clock parts!

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#36 1 year ago

Ok folks, new issue. I’m determined, after everyone’s positive push, that I’m going to figure this out. So I started going through each component, trying to make sure they are working properly. I’ve noticed the ball count stepper advances up until ball number 5 but will not advance anymore. Same thing is happening with the spin unit stepper. On both ratchet gears there seems to be a missing tooth or smooth spot. When it hits this smooth spot it will not advance any further. Is this “smooth spot” normal?

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#37 1 year ago
Quoted from Redcloud:

Ok folks, new issue. I’m determined, after everyone’s positive push, that I’m going to figure this out. So I started going through each component, trying to make sure they are working properly. I’ve noticed the ball count stepper advances up until ball number 5 but will not advance anymore. Same thing is happening with the spin unit stepper. On both ratchet gears there seems to be a missing tooth or smooth spot. When it hits this smooth spot it will not advance any further. Is this “smooth spot” normal?
[quoted image]

Yes, that’s a common thing when you get to a maximum count.

Dave

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

Yes, that’s a common thing when you get to a maximum count.
Dave

@dpAmpGuy, can the gear be rotated to access a better set of teeth or what is the repair solution? Both ball count and spin unit have a tooth missing!

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

Yes, that’s a common thing when you get to a maximum count.
Dave

Thanks Dave! I misinterpreted your answer.

#40 1 year ago

this doesn't make sense.

the pin switches typically push a switch stack when the unit is reset and/or when the unit is at the top step (the missing tooth spot).

in your pic below, the open-at-reset switch (green arrow) is probably ok. The switch should close when the unit steps once.

the other switch is open, and the peg that's going to push the blade when it steps up far enough is gonna ... make it more open?

the switch the red arrow is pointing at should be closed. What the affect is I dunno .. which unit is it?

often the open-at-top-step switch disconnects the step-up coil, so if the stepper doesn't step all the way, check that switch. Switches that get shoved when the unit is reset tend to be involved with the game reset functions.

the common exception is the replay/credit unit. The operator could move the open-at-top peg to a few locations to set a limit on the number of credits, so the peg location doesn't match the missing tooth/flat spot.

spin-a-card pin switches (resized).jpg

#41 12 months ago

Ok, folks….big shout out to Mk1ModO(Third Coast Pinball and Graphics),for coming to my house and giving me a helping hand. He helped with many issues that I’m sure I would never have solved. Thanks very much, Shawn!! Now, my machine resets properly, and most all functions work properly. There is still a few glitches that need to be worked out.
1. When the kicker flips the ball out to the shooting plunger, it seems that it passes over the switch in the out channel too quickly and doesn’t register the ball number. If I click it manually.. it advances the ball count, correctly until the 5th ball then game over. It will NOT do this if the ball is flipped over this switch by the “kicker”. Any thoughts, please?

ABD335B6-6479-43E6-B636-E230F49D4563 (resized).jpeg
#42 12 months ago

Update: figured out the ball the ball kicker switch was adjusted a bit too close and it was going through the ejecting motion sometimes more than once. While it was doing this……it was not ready to count the balls in the out chute, yet. A little adjustment and it’s working well, now.

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