(Topic ID: 152933)

SPIKE - no interlock?


By 85vett

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Patofnaud
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#1 3 years ago

If this is accurate I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate this system.

I just got my GOTLE and I've noticed a couple of things that I'm not sure are either not working correctly or are as designed.

- 1st - No coin door ball save. It's in the options but when I open the door the ball drains and ends the ball. I like this feature as it prevents you from losing out on a good game if something comes lose. In this case my wife was having a great ball (pretty rare for her) and a bulb came out. She trapped the ball and I opened the door and told her to release the flipper as I have coin door ball saver on. Ball drains and she loses her ball.

- 2nd - The game goes into ball search with the door open. I hope this isn't by design or it's piss poor design. So, in this example, the game kicks a new ball into the game. I need to pull the PF out to get to where the light came from (backpanel behind the dragon). I pick the ball up and grab the bulb. I go to put the bulb back in and ball search goes off and activates all the coils. Not only starveling me, this is dangerous. If I was fixing a bulb in a sling that would have hurt like hell....

- 3rd - I don't see an interlock on the door. How does the game know that the door is open for the "coin door ball save" in the first place? I know the voltage isn't as high in the SPIKE system but this seems like really poor design.

Is this really by design? Does KISS and WWE behave the same?

I can live with the switch movement (I don't like it at all nor does my wife) but the above seems more like a safety item to me. Yes, I can turn the game off anytime I need to get a ball unstuck or put a bulb back in but that seems like a major step back in my opinion.

Sorry, if this comes across as whiny. I'm just really frustrated/irritated at the moment about this.

#2 3 years ago

Coin door inter-lock switch is removed with GOT and future spike games due to a lot of the coils and flashers are lower voltage now

#3 3 years ago

Still a lame excuse to not put an interlock in...

Can we grab the ball and place it in the shooter lane without the auto shooter kicking it while we fix a thing or two?

#4 3 years ago

I am not sure Stern realized or cared about the ramifications of removing the interlock switch. The programming has not been updated to reflect this change or provide solutions to the problems it creates. For example, the coils are active in switch test which is a huge pain in the ass. Coin door ball save is either no longer available or has to be reprogrammed to work when the menu buttons are accessed. It's a bit more cumbersome of course, but so are those ass-tastic pro playfield support pegs.

Rob

-1
#5 3 years ago

Man. It must be the fact that GOT is my first NIB, or I'm the easiest person to please in the world. I have turned the game off every single time I want to work on something. So no issues at all with how the game behaves when on and I'm opening the coin door. Just let the ball drain and on the start of your next ball it sits in the shooter lane all day until you're ready to go again.

I have only used switch test to test some stand ups so I didn't know coils were active during that. I guess that would suck for a sling to smack you during that. I guess I've been lucky.

#6 3 years ago

Just go into the menu when you want to work on the game.
Exit the menu when you are finished.

Game continues just where you were.

But I must say, too bad the coindoor ball save and interlock behaviour is now gone.

10
#7 3 years ago

The lack of an interlock switch is one of the worst changes Stern has made, and that's saying something. Glad they saved that $1. I can't wait to get shocked at a mere 48v, down 2v from what's considered high voltage.

#8 3 years ago

Its all about the money they save here they save their before u know it youll have to pay extra for coin mechs ect

#9 3 years ago

Is the wiring present? Just like the 'optional' slam tilt.
If it would be present, just buying a switch could fix it easy.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

Is the wiring present? Just like the 'optional' slam tilt.
If it would be present, just buying a switch could fix it easy.

I tried looking for it and couldn't find a thing. If it's there I will add it.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Man. It must be the fact that GOT is my first NIB, or I'm the easiest person to please in the world. I have turned the game off every single time I want to work on something. So no issues at all with how the game behaves when on and I'm opening the coin door. Just let the ball drain and on the start of your next ball it sits in the shooter lane all day until you're ready to go again.
I have only used switch test to test some stand ups so I didn't know coils were active during that. I guess that would suck for a sling to smack you during that. I guess I've been lucky.

I agree, this is fine when you can do that but if you need to slide the game out to get to something you can't just leave the ball in the shooter lane. In this case a light from the backboard came out.

I can't see how this would have been a good idea. They need to at least stop the ball search for the times you are trying to fish a ball out of some area that it may be stuck at. I'll try the setting buttons trick.

Quoted from Delta9:

Its all about the money they save here they save their before u know it youll have to pay extra for coin mechs ect

They already saved enough on this LE. No shaker motor and the pro style latch system. I actually prefer that latch system as it feel more secure but still a cut.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Delta9:

It's all about the money. They save here, they save there. Before you know it, you'll have to pay extra for coin mechs, etc.

Yup. Probably send the new machines out with those damn card readers installed instead of coin mechs or bill acceptor.

#12 3 years ago

Theses loads of poor design Features with spike regarding service.

- Firstly, no GI lighting when you go into test modes. That was helpful for cleaning the playfield.
- the new diag for switch tests sucks! Also, Now when I'm poking around testing switches on the back of the pf the high power is on. Great way to accidentally short something! Back to 1991 with high power present, awesome!

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

For example, the coils are active in switch test which is a huge pain in the ass.

This! I like to dial in slingshots & pop bumpers without the coils firing at me in switch test. Those days are gone.

#14 3 years ago

I know my Kiss has it and my Got does not. I'm going to check out tonight if the wiring in GOT.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I know my Kiss has it and my Got does not. I'm going to check out tonight if the wiring in GOT.

Appreciate it. I'll look again but I didn't see anything. I would hate to spend money to add something that should be there but I'll do it in this case. I get a lot of benefit from that feature.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Appreciate it. I'll look again but I didn't see anything. I would hate to spend money to add something that should be there but I'll do it in this case. I get a lot of benefit from that feature.

From what I remember, I think there is wiring there but no bracket for the switch. Writing myself a not to check it out tonight.

#17 3 years ago

Just found this. According to the GOT manual the high power is supposed to be cut out when the door is open.

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#18 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Just found this. According to the GOT manual the high power is supposed to be cut out when the door is open.

Yeah, I noticed this too. I'm pretty sure it's just a mistake, left over from the previous manuals when there was still a switch present.

#19 3 years ago

Lol, I guess it's no longer important to 'protect the system and for user safety' as per their manual. Kinda sad.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballkyle:

Lol, I guess it's no longer important to 'protect the system and for user safety' as per their manual. Kinda sad.

Sad, but true. I'd trade the coin mechs for a working interlock switch.

Rob

#21 3 years ago

From Kiss and diabling switch matrix power with the door open, to now not being able to count on high power being disabled at all with the power on, this whole behavior is just assinine. Let's be real here. They are saving a significant amount not having to hand build a huge wiring harness or install a transformer on each and every game now, but I believe they intentionally left that $1 switch off to lead to more shorts and node replacements. I see no other explanation and 'it's no longer required by the UL because of the lower voltages' although valid is a very weak excuse to leave it off.

-Jeff

#22 3 years ago

Query: why does opening the door cause the flippers to fail if there's no interlock?

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Excalabur:

Query: why does opening the door cause the flippers to fail if there's no interlock?

It doesn't.

#24 3 years ago

This is a stupid move by Stern, we should definitely voice our concerns to Stern

#25 3 years ago

As I recall, the entire system is run off the 48vdc and it is regulated down to the lower voltage on each node board.. So, if you were to disconnect the 48v to the playfield, all the electronics on the playfield would be non-responsive.

#26 3 years ago

I'll stick with the old Data Easts and Segas.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

This is a stupid move by Stern, we should definitely voice our concerns to Stern

I posted on their facebook they should put the interlock back. That's about all we can do.

Rob

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

I posted on their facebook they should put the interlock back. That's about all we can do.
Rob

But based on this, it's not possible:

Quoted from CactusJack:

As I recall, the entire system is run off the 48vdc and it is regulated down to the lower voltage on each node board.. So, if you were to disconnect the 48v to the playfield, all the electronics on the playfield would be non-responsive.

There isn't a coin door interlock switch due to it being impossible to cut high power without cutting the rest of the power as well. There isn't a coin door switch at all because stern used the high power switch also as a coin door open switch so features like coin door ball saver could work. These are just the costs of moving forward with new designs. There are trade offs.

#29 3 years ago

In the John's Arcade Stern Tour, Gomez talks about relocating the power switch for UL standards (or something like that).

I can't imagine removing the interlock is UL standard.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

But based on this, it's not possible:

There isn't a coin door interlock switch due to it being impossible to cut high power without cutting the rest of the power as well. There isn't a coin door switch at all because stern used the high power switch also as a coin door open switch so features like coin door ball saver could work. These are just the costs of moving forward with new designs. There are trade offs.

They should still update their code for a new coin door ball saver method and a way to disable coils in switch test.

Rob

#31 3 years ago

Doesn't really matter to me...I've had my Spike for a few weeks now but with the power switch moving I haven't been able to turn it on.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

In the John's Arcade Stern Tour, Gomez talks about relocating the power switch for UL standards (or something like that).
I can't imagine removing the interlock is UL standard.

There is no more than 48 Volts exposed anymore, so according to Chaz at Stern disabling power is no longer required. You also have to run your own (which Stern supplies) 110 Volt line through the cabinet to hook up a bill acceptor. I suspect all these changes are related.

-Jeff

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from spazzman90:

You also have to run your own (which Stern supplies) 110 Volt line through the cabinet to hook up a bill acceptor.

If you want a 110 V bill validator. 12 V is there for a 12 volt one.

LTG : )™

#34 3 years ago

What else is up with Spike? Makes me question buying any new game on this system. Is is reliable? I'm about sick of Sterns attitude of giving us less and charging more.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I know my Kiss has it and my Got does not. I'm going to check out tonight if the wiring in GOT.

Quoted from 85vett:

Appreciate it. I'll look again but I didn't see anything. I would hate to spend money to add something that should be there but I'll do it in this case. I get a lot of benefit from that feature.

No interlock wiring on GOT or interlock bracket.

Kiss has it.

Would like to know if the wiring can be ordered through a distributor. Thanks Stern for yet another cost cutting measure.

#36 3 years ago

Not to deviate from this thread but still Stern related. I ordered GOT pro from Cointaker 2 weeks ago. Melissa told me they had stock in their warehouse I suppose at Stern. Game has yet to ship, supposedly they have not delivered the truck full of pins to Cokntaker or whatever. Sounds like they are having quality issues as I was told they are opening games back up to fix shots ala left orbit shot on GOT premium. Games are not being delivered, quality issues, and everybody is waiting for GB. IMO Stern needs fix whatever is going on before they even think about revealing anything new.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

They should still update their code for a new coin door ball saver method and a way to disable coils in switch test.
Rob

This is not a code issue. The hardware runs off a single 48v input. You cut 48v and you lose all power. The reason the HV is cut off on older games is to avoid getting shocked. It's not so coils don't fire with the door open. Sure they can make it sense an open door and leaving the high power on not firing the coils. But there is no benefit to that. In fact, it's useful to run some machine debugging with coils firing.

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

This is not a code issue.

The code for the coin door ball saver (still present) expects an interlock switch which doesn't exist any more. Therefore the feature doesn't work. How is that not a code issue where the programming is not updated to reflect hardware changes? It could still work if the menu button is pressed.

Quoted from markmon:

In fact, it's useful to run some machine debugging with coils firing.

Then you start a game and test the way it's always been done?

Rob

-4
#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

The code for the coin door ball saver (still present) expects an interlock switch which doesn't exist any more. Therefore the feature doesn't work. How is that not a code issue where the programming is not updated to reflect hardware changes? It could still work if the menu button is pressed.

Then you start a game and test the way it's always been done?
Rob

Yea it's not really important to add an interlock switch for only coin door ball saver. The only possible code change here is to remove coin door ball saver from the menus. And since the game defaults to this setting being off, there's really very little benefit to even bothering to remove the feature.

As far as testing, many issues are solved by actually running the game with flippers and coils active in switch test mode. This is why the stern interlock switches enabled the pull out feature to reactivate the high voltage during diagnostics. Starting a game and testing is actually not the way it's been done in the past. That doesn't give you a good overview of the state of the switches. No wonder there are so many tech threads on these forums. Sheesh.

Now we know that it's not going to be possible to cut high voltage with the coin door open regardless what software does, it doesn't make sense to simply kill coils in the menu just because that's what you're use to.

The spike system is much simplified over older Sam and whitestar systems. It's time for people to learn how to diagnose problems on the new system and how it works without complaining that it's not the way it use to be.

Not everything is about cost savings and being cheap on the customer. Sometimes things are just changed as a result of moving forward. I'm surprised people aren't complaining that there is only one board in the head instead of the 5 data east use to have. "For what we pay, we should get more than one small board!" Lol.

#40 3 years ago

The interlock switch & coin door ball saver was a great thing when your in the middle of a 4 hour IFPA sanctioned tournament & something came loose is lying on the playfield & you need to remove the glass while the player is in the middle of an incredible ball & has the ball trapped with the flipper till tournament officials could open the coin door & observe the ball drain for service issues.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from MoonwalkerArcade:

The interlock switch & coin door ball saver was a great thing when your in the middle of a 4 hour IFPA sanctioned tournament & something came loose is lying on the playfield & you need to remove the glass while the player is in the middle of an incredible ball & has the ball trapped with the flipper till tournament officials could open the coin door & observe the ball drain for service issues.

Why not keep the ball trapped until the glass is off then take the ball out?

#42 3 years ago

Impossible when playing on your own , I really mis the switch and what it makes easier for many things , its just a stupid decision, period!

Stern installed it on Kiss, no go on Got.. go figure

#43 3 years ago

Another Stern cost cutting. Send money now !!

#44 3 years ago

For whatever the reason Stern removed the interlock switch, be in legitimate or not, they are never going to escape the narrative that everything they change is due to cost cutting to increase profits at the expense of quality and features. It's a well deserved narrative, IMO. They're working hard to live on the naked edge of "just good enough", and they often slide off the cliff of good enough straight into bad. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Stern when the economy tanks again. It'll be tough going at the current price point.

#45 3 years ago

For some of my own work, I tried to find the electrical requirements/code that required the interlock switch. 70V DC is on the edge of what may or may not require that. With 48V DC there is no requirement.

I'm confused by the problem caused here. Without the 48V dropping when you open the coin door, you don't need anything special to keep the flipper coils powered ala "ball save". Or am I missing something?

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Why not keep the ball trapped until the glass is off then take the ball out?

I believe the issue is related to opening the coin door.
Once the coin door is open, all power to the playfield is turned off.

This causes the flipper to move back to its normal position. And the trapped ball rolls into the out hole.

In order to take off the glass, the coin door needs to be opened so that the clasps holding down the lockdown bar can be released.

So it is not possible to remove the glass fast enough to save the ball.

At least, that is how I am understanding the problem.

Marcus

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Stern when the economy tanks again. It'll be tough going at the current price point.

For starters, they are probably the only company that could drop their price and stay afloat. The others ... let's see how many pins they sell at 10K in a bad economy!

Not only that, they are the only company that is selling pins for $5k. Apparently, they sell a lot of them.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

I believe the issue is related to opening the coin door.
Once the coin door is open, all power to the playfield is turned off.
This causes the flipper to move back to its normal position. And the trapped ball rolls into the out hole.
In order to take off the glass, the coin door needs to be opened so that the clasps holding down the lockdown bar can be released.
So it is not possible to remove the glass fast enough to save the ball.
At least, that is how I am understanding the problem.
Marcus

On my GOT the flippers stay powered with the coin door open, so you can hold the flipper up the whole time the coin door is open. It actually happened to me in a tournament too. The ball got stuck in the top lanes. They took the glass off, put the ball on my engaged flipper, put the glass back on, lockdown bar on, locked it, and closed the coin door.

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

I believe the issue is related to opening the coin door.
Once the coin door is open, all power to the playfield is turned off.

No, I thought that it the opposite of the issue?

Quoted from chuckwurt:

On my GOT the flippers stay powered with the coin door open, so you can hold the flipper up the whole time the coin door is open.

So why is it working diff'rently for diff'rent people?

EDIT: no issues...I need to wake up before posting.

#50 3 years ago

#wherestheinterlock

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