(Topic ID: 171966)

Spidy VE - Factory LEDs Strobing ??


By chriskuta

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by herg
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 3 years ago

I've had a search around and have found some info on this. But I wanted to share a video I made using slo-mo on my iPhone showing how my factory LEDs strobe. They look pretty solid to the naked eye, but I do notice this when the ball is moving fast you noticed this strobing effect on the ball..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/152190/tmp/pins/spidy-ve.mp4

Where as the same footage on my Hobbit and its rock solid ..

Would non-ghosting LEDs help this? Maybe I just go back to incandescents..

#2 3 years ago

A LED OCD board could be the answer.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-ocd-advanced-lamp-controller-shipping-with-wait-list

No need to change the Stern Leds, smooths out the controlled lights, It will work with your Spidy VE.

They cost a bit, worth having a look at

#3 3 years ago

I can't view dropbox stuff from work, so I can't see which ones you're talking about. Can you tell if it's controlled lamps or if it's GI that's bugging you? Either way, non-ghosting won't help with strobing as that's not what they're designed for.

Either LED OCD or GIzmo would help, depending on which lamps are causing your strobing. Incandescents would also eliminate it, if you choose to go that way.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from chriskuta:

I've had a search around and have found some info on this. But I wanted to share a video I made using slo-mo on my iPhone showing how my factory LEDs strobe. They look pretty solid to the naked eye, but I do notice this when the ball is moving fast you noticed this strobing effect on the ball..
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/152190/tmp/pins/spidy-ve.mp4
Where as the same footage on my Hobbit and its rock solid ..
Would non-ghosting LEDs help this? Maybe I just go back to incandescents..

I will look at mine and see if it does that same, so you know if its a machine issue or just a LED issue

#5 3 years ago

You can't use LED OCD with SMVE, or any game that has factory LEDs (on the little boards) from Stern, AFAIK, unless dude has come out with a new board. Does it, or is it 44 lamps?

Every SMVE I've ever seen has looked like this, and ultimately, is why I did not buy one. I asked REPEATEDLY on here, from Stern, etc, why this game does not seem to support LED fading when that was critical to how the rules worked on the game. I never got an answer of any kind saying "It does, there's a menu option to enable it." or "We changed the way the insert lighting works so that it displays the same information in different ways than the original game." or anything, really.

It's ridiculous. I now dread that at some point they will do LOTR VE and my only option will be to accept their massively inferior non-Spike LED implementation, or to skip the game...and if I have to make that choice...I'll skip the game.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

You can't use LED OCD with SMVE, or any game that has factory LEDs (on the little boards) from Stern, AFAIK, unless dude has come out with a new board. Does it, or is it 44 lamps?

SMVE is still SAM with a lamp matrix. Dude's board will work fine as-is.

Quoted from Frax:

It's ridiculous. I now dread that at some point they will do LOTR VE and my only option will be to accept their massively inferior non-Spike LED implementation, or to skip the game...

That seems to be the way they're going. If they were to do a LOTR VE, I would expect it to be Whitestar, like the original, and as a result, use a lamp matrix.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from herg:

SMVE is still SAM with a lamp matrix. Dude's board will work fine as-is.

Good to hear, Dude.

Guess I will have to consider picking up a SMVE used at some point. Wish I had known this back when I was selling Tron. I liked a lot of the other changes, but man...that strobing is an instant headache and a deal killer. My wife is even more susceptible to it....as in can't even watch our 3d TV because it's active shutter glasses.

#8 3 years ago

Appreciate all the replies thanks.

I've got a much better understanding of what's going on now - with the way the matrix works and how it's originally designed to control lamp dimming. Makes sense for filament bulbs but obviously not so for leds.

I'll check out the board mentioned. I really do like the look of the older incandescent bulbs the way they fade out .. reminds me more of the pins I used to play years ago.

But eliminating or even reducing the strobing would be great..

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from chriskuta:

Appreciate all the replies thanks.
I've got a much better understanding of what's going on now - with the way the matrix works and how it's originally designed to control lamp dimming. Makes sense for filament bulbs but obviously not so for leds.
I'll check out the board mentioned. I really do like the look of the older incandescent bulbs the way they fade out .. reminds me more of the pins I used to play years ago.
But eliminating or even reducing the strobing would be great..

If its the fade out, then you will need to do an OCD board.

#10 3 years ago

Your video seems to focus on the leds on the slings and the return lanes. Those are GI and not controlled lamp matrix like the inserts.

I dont notice this on my SMVE. But ive never filmed it with slomo either....

If its the GI primarily causeing you issues then ledocd makes a GI board you might want. Or do both with the insert ledocd board.

#11 3 years ago

Thanks Rickwh that makes sense and was actually my next question

I checked the lamps in row / column in Spidy VE under service and noticed the lamps I video'd aren't included within the matrix. So GI meaning general illumination. I'll check out the GI board.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Rickwh:

Your video seems to focus on the leds on the slings and the return lanes. Those are GI and not controlled lamp matrix like the inserts.

Yeah, most of the video is showing the GI. If that is what bothers you the most, a GIzmo would be the board to get. The inserts in the middle of the playfield can be controlled using the LED OCD. As Rickwh says, it's much less noticable when not filming in slow motion. Some people can't see it, while it can drive others crazy.

#13 3 years ago

herg - you mentioned "(GIzmo) can be controlled using the LED OCD"? Does that mean the GIzmo requires the other board or can it work standalone? Or if you have an LED OCD board you can get more control than just the jumpers?

#14 3 years ago

There is a setting in SMVE to make the inserts simulate the original spidey. Ive never spent enough time with original spidey but apparently for example it would light the green goblin insert in the center playfield with varying brightness as you were working through the three phases of green goblin modes. It made the leds in my SMVE flicker more so I turned it back off.

Having said that you are looking for less flickery so maybe you are better off with both LEDOCD AND OCD GI boards.

Lastly im not sure the code in SMVE will fade on and off the inserts like the original spidey did just cause it was designed for incandescent bulbs... It may. But it may be more like metallica that doesnt do much ramp on and off now?

#15 3 years ago

Fellow aussy pinsider Time Bandit may be able to help. I know Austrailia is huge, but you are both there so i thought id mentions him. He has a led insert control board mod called total light show and he is totally re working SMVE.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from chriskuta:

herg - you mentioned "(GIzmo) can be controlled using the LED OCD"? Does that mean the GIzmo requires the other board or can it work standalone? Or if you have an LED OCD board you can get more control than just the jumpers?

I may have not described it clearly enough. GIzmo and LED OCD are completely independent. GIzmo is only for GI, and LED OCD is only for the inserts.

Rickwh makes a good point about Timebandit's kit. It is awesome. It does far more than a GIzmo does. It does cost more, but I think it's worth it. I do think it's only for GI, though.

#17 3 years ago

Thanks lads..

Where are the settings for SPVE? - I had a quick look this morning but couldn't see anything. I've not seen GI fade to be honest but they turn ON / OFF for sure. That Green Goblin brightness things sounds interesting, but mine will be the same..

I just found after reading your post -- http://redshiftled.com.au/ crazy light show bonanza ..

#19 3 years ago

But honestly if you want LESS led flickering and want to keep it stock, then the LEDOCD/GIzmo pair may be what you are looking for.

Btw, i attempted to record my SMVE in attract mode in slomo and didnt quite get what i expected. When i play it back its in real time. I have a samsung phone not iphone and this is first time ive messed with slomo...
But having said that even when recording on cell the GI did not flicker at all on my machine. The main inserts in the center playfield web did flicker quite a bit in the video though. But I dont see that to the naked eye.

Ill try slomo again later.

#20 3 years ago

The flickering is not noticeable to the naked eye at least looking direct at them, but once the ball is moving around I do noticed strobing on the ball itself.. it's weird, like instead of the ball being a blur (like motion blur) I see multiple balls along its path of motion. Like waving you hand fast in front of an old crt tv.. I'm def considering those add on boards.. but I might chuck in 8 incandescent bulbs under the slings and inlanes and see if that helps first

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Rickwh:

Btw, i attempted to record my SMVE in attract mode in slomo and didnt quite get what i expected.

It would be worse in chriskuta's case since Australia's power is 50 Hz. GI is using AC, so the refresh rate on his game is slower. That said, the GI flicker does seem a bit excessive now that I think about it. Are the LEDs "AC"? If not, they're only lighting half the time, and that would make the strobing much worse. In that case, you could try simply putting some "AC" LEDs in it.

Incandescents would definitely help the strobing, but IMO, they would not look nearly as good in a SMVE with all the cartoony artwork and colors.

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