I think it looks amazing. Price is the new reality of pinball. I said this a month ago when Spooky revealed the price of RZ...they left a thousand or two on the table. It's gorgeous though.
(Topic ID: 148449)
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Spider-Man VE
Stern, 2016
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Quoted from PinballManiac40:Why would it be?? This is Stern afterall.
Spend the least amount of time and money on a project and see if it sells.
This is unnecessarily harsh! I think this looks like Stern put A LOT of time into it. Looks effin AMAZING, new toys are awesome, games is MUCH NICER than the last Spider-Man. They also put a lot of work into new dots and callouts. The price, the price...we know. But how can anyone BITCH about how this game looks / plays. They took a hit and made it even NICER. Want to bitch? Put this Playfield next to Rob Zombie and ask which looks more valuable? Somebody do it. I dare you.
Is their target pinheads who already have a Spidey or the MUCH LARGER Spider-Man comic book fanbase? If I collected Spider-Man memorabilia, I'd be all over this. Also, its a VE, how many units are they really looking to sell?
Look, I agree it's priced too high. But I also think many act like the difference between 6K and 7K is OMG, WTF, NO WAY!!!!! These are luxurious toys guys, get used to it. Once the first NIB ships (Frolic?) what the mob turn into buyers. Happens every time.
Quoted from jbrady65tv:Not doing it without a TRIPLE DOG dare you.
Triple dog dare you!
Quoted from jwo825:That playfield is a rehash of the old one done by one of the worst Spider-Man artists of all time. Compared to Horley's art package on RZ! This is garbage. I think you hit the accelerator in your Hellcat too hard and left your brain a quarter mile behind you on the freeway somewhere.
So do it...upload a picture of this new Spider-Man playfield vs RZs....I love how everyone refers to RZ's art as a package deal...makes stomaching the playfield art easier? Let's compare apples to apples shall we?
Quoted from jwo825:I'll concede that the new sculpts are great, but I'm not willing to call the playfield art better because it has a million inserts. Busier doesn't equal better to me, personally.
Put them side by side. Somebody do it and I'll paypal them $5.
Quoted from TimeBandit:I can't keep the price up all on my own. Heaps of people saying they are out. I'm just saying I'm in. If I'm the only buyer then there will be plenty of inventory, it will be a sales dud and prices will not continue to rise.
Man, you will have many many people buying alongside you. Remember this is Pinside. People LOVE to claim THEY ARE OUT!!!! Whenever anything gets revealed. Because half can't afford it, other half just want to be upset about something, but they will buy because opening a NIB is like crack. Everyone on here needs a hit...
Quoted from mesmashu:VE's should be priced between a pro and a premium. Everyone knows this... except Gary.
They invented the concept of a VE...so who knows best? This is not a VE...this is a retheme/skin. Why people don't get that is beyond me. Iron Man was a VE with no real changes.
Quoted from Wamprat:I gave up the Stern NIB BS years ago.
Yeah but the bullshit is lack of code...in this case you get a completed game and it's an awesome game. So no BS, just the most beautiful looking Spidey pin ever.
Quoted from Rarehero:He's such a fatty!
I don't know why anyone expected old art. It's 2016. Spider-Man has changed in appearance 100 times by now. Current version is current.
Exactly. Well put.
I meant it's not just a normal VE buddy. They went above and beyond. We all knew no LCD, but damn they really gave us a work of art.
Quoted from solarvalue:No really a fair comparison because RZ pic is lower res but here you go (keep the $5):
RZ_vs_SMVE_(resized).jpg
How about the whole playfield champ? The 60% of the RZ playfield that's empty.
Quoted from Rarehero:Oh please - when contemplating whether to spend $6500 on a product, people are going to express their opinions about it. It's not a casual purchase.
Should everyone just fall in line, say it's perfect, and order every single new title without having a thought in their head?
No but come one man, how is this not a homerun for Stern? It's gorgeous and 10x nicer than the model before it. So much whining and complaining on here, it's like people forgot that these are toys and have lost their ability to feel joy.
Just saw the CES video. Game looks effin awesome. I don't get the bitching at all.
1. Stern takes great game.
2. Makes it better
3. Charges a bit more
4. Everyone bitches and complains.
Seriously people, what's wrong with us? Like for real? Stern really knocked this one out of the park. I honestly think this is the nicest looking Stern art package...wait for it....EVER. It's all tied together so nicely. Can't you guys see this is Stern turning the corner. Imagine if they remade LOTR with improved art/sound/figures? Hell yeah I'd pay MORE than what they want for Spidey.
Some of us are just delusional thinking prices will decrease. You could have this beauty at your door for what? $6,600? And here's the kicker...YOU CAN HAVE IT SOON! Like within weeks. Heck Stern deserves to take on a premium just for that fact alone.
We all piled on Stern when the GOT art was shown and YES that art will always be SH$T, but this pin is beautiful. They even changed some of the mechs to help with wear and tear. They did new code. New dots. What, did you all expect to get that for the same price as Iron Man VE?
I'm just so bummed hearing so many people complain. It's like Stern can't win. Meanwhile, they will sell every one. Pin is gorgeous. Anyone with an original Spidey saying they will keep theirs...that's fine...but man, this is the one to have.
Quoted from PinballNewb:I think it's the exact opposite. They are remembering they are toys. This one of which already had all the major design and engineering completed 9 years ago.
Exactly. And they made a stellar game. And now improved upon it. Like if they made a Tron LE, what do you think they would price it at? What if they changed the art to be old school Tron? They could charge 10K for it. Would people complain? Yes. And EVERYONE would want one. That's the thing, how many people bitching are even in the market for one?
I'm cool with people's opinions. But saying Stern is way over charging isn't fair. Look at the competition. Look at what they are charging. And here's the kicker. What competition? Nobody else is shipping sh*t. By the time Hobbit/RZ ship, Ghostbusters will be revealed and change everything.
Quoted from TomGWI:Then buy the game if it is so great. Put your money were your mouth is. I will give you $20 if you buy the game. Oh sh!t, I just pulled a kaneda!
I've stated numerous times, I will replace LOTR with Star Wars. But if I had room, I'd buy this pin in a heartbeat. I'm just not that into Spidey to make it my only pin. I do wear Spidey underwear...holds my tiny package in place.
Quoted from kporter946286:kaneda could buy 20 if he wanted. Why don't you leave that up to his accountant!
Why would I buy 20 machines when I can walk to Modern Pinball in 5 minutes, and beat on $200,000 worth of pins for $20...why?
Quoted from robotron:rz is a all new game and 1000 cheaper am I correct? we tawking spidey ve, don't know how rz comes into play here.
My point was that SMVE looks like it should be $1,000 more than RZ. Even 2k more.
Quoted from PinballNewb:So when they make a shitty game *cough* WWE, I'm assuming they discount their MSRP?
I don't have a pony in this race, I've reached my pin limit for now. I think the game does look great and I think that's the general consensus. But a lot of the fixed costs of this pin have already been absorbed years ago.
I think people feel like they are being bent over just a bit too much because of that. Doesn't mean Stern can't or shouldn't do it though if they feel so inclined.
The problem in pinball now is pricing does not reflect cost to build. Stern is making a profit here and people cry foul. Meanwhile, what would JJP have had to charge to make a profit on WOZ / Hobbit? They literally went bankrupt with WOZ. Imagine if they were like Spooky and charged you what it actually cost to make WOZ plus enough to make money to keep the company going. WOZ would have been 12-15K. For those who say a company took a loss to get into the category, that's not how it works. Sure Microsoft can take a loss to make Xbox because they have billions elsewhere. Stern HAS TO profit and grow to keep growing. They just moved into a huge new factory. Need to hire more people. Will make more pins. But they are priced exactly where they need to be. Only thing that will drive price down is competition. They literally have none.
Quoted from DefaultGen:I think calling $2000 "a bit more" is the problem.
How much was Spider-Man black compared to getting this @$6,600? Nobody believes MSRP price.
Quoted from Erik:I think it looks great and consistent throughout. How many pins have we seen where the pf art is very different than the cabinet art?
They could have went with the six armed SpidermanAmazing_Spidy_101_(resized).jpg
Hmmm....playfield art much different than cabinet art...let me see now.....
Quoted from PinsideTroll:price is a joke. lets see some new original stuff..... no more comic shit, some for real original designs. its getting old fast. b/w pins still kill sterns junk
We get it. You're not in. Anything you do like about the pin? Forget the price.
Guys, let's all STOP! Are people seriously saying they know what Stern needs to do to survive? Stern survived a damn pinball apocalypse and not just that, they've managed to grow and get stronger.
Stern is a smart company. They aren't just guessing with these prices guys.
Can we stop acting as if we know how to run a pinball company better than them? Really, let's just stop.
Making a pinball machine is a lot more work than people realize. Look at Aurich and Alien...for the most part he's working with imagery given to him by Fox. But all of that back and forth with FOX takes time. Time = Money. Do you know what Gary had to spend for the new Spider-Man license? No. That's not a cheap license. Maybe Disney wanted more than Sony did.
I think this pin looks amazing and for $6,600. Hell yes it's worth it.
Quoted from tamoore:Guys, can we just STOP pretending that this machine is worth $6,600????????
To me it is. And maybe to 500 other people it is too. What if that's wall they wanted to sell just to keep the line busy?
The price of something isn't a right or wrong thing. Buyers will set the price, ultimately. Stern knows some people will be out, but others will be in. It's not an issue of I'm wrong / you're right. Agree?
Quoted from 27dnast:Is this a fact? Only a handful of Pinsiders are arrogant enough to run around talking about what their financials are. I don't think you can assume that.
Of course this is not a fact. It's an opinion. There is some truth to it. But we are definitely a nation divided on Pinside when it comes to wealth. Some people just hate modern prices. That's cool. Some people have 20 pin collections and buy every NIB. That's cool too. Some of us have a million in the bank. Others pay check to paycheck. All good. It's pinball.
The price freakout over Spider-Man is a bit much considering the game, and what you get in a modern Stern vs what they packed into Spidey back then.
When the dust settles, Stern will sell everyone and those who don't think it's worth it, won't be forced to buy it. So win/win.
Some people act like these pins are college text books and we're forced to buy them at whatever price they are at.
Quoted from thearcadegeek:Ghostbusters is coming because there are at least 2 new movies being released in the near future. It only partially has to do with nostalgia.
Tron 3 proposed and then cancelled. That tells you enough about the general public's interest in all items Tron. Don't expect to see a Tron VE. Iron Man and Spider-man still have hugely successful movies being released, which is why it made sense to make a VE there.
Tron's a bit of an anomaly. The arcade machine was more popular than the movie. Likewise I think if Stern made a Tron re-themed after the original films look / feel (aka the classic arcade machine) it would sell like hotcakes.
Quoted from Rarehero:Relevance of license. Spider-Man is still relevant. Tron is not. Simpsons is - but it was one of their top sellers...possibly twice as many TSPP's out there compared to Spidey....there is no demand for NIB TSPP - they are common and available for a reasonable price if you want one. Also Stern does a lot of licensing with Disney/Marvel - perhaps its easier than going through Fox.
Also, TSPP was on Whitestar...they're not going to put out a Whitestar game again now that they're 2 hardware generations ahead. The only way I could see it coming back as a VE is if it was ported to SPIKE with remastered audio & full color LCD animation on the display and in the TV. Ultimate Anniversary Edition or something....I own a TSPP, but I'd rebuy THAT version of it!
A remake of TRON is ALWAYS relevant to pinball collectors as it's one of the best pins Stern has always made. You can't look at these themes out of the context of their category. For example, if someone was going to make a whole new version of let's say Cactus Canyon...call it Cactus Canyon 2016...that theme means nothing to anyone outside of pinball, but to pinball collectors, they would perk up.
Quoted from DefaultGen:Even LEs today don't get shakers included let alone premiums, but SMVE did.
Stern either has a master of business who knows exactly how to slice the models/MSRPs or they throw darts at a board...
They know exactly how to price these things to sell. What people don't know is how many units they planned to sell. I'm launching a new tech product now and it's a real simple chart. At $500 we'll sell this many, at $300 this many. They are seeing this as a LUCI like re-release.
Quoted from hank527:Who is in Stern's marketing department? I want to know, as you seem overly confident in something I can almost guarantee, they did not do Marketing research on. Did they call people and ask if they would buy at this price? Did they call operators? Haha. Like moving the power switch.
What is the target market? Is it six figure comic book collectors who love pinball? How many of those people are out there? How many will drop $6500 for it?
My guess is this sells 200-300 units. Is that enough to produce a profit?
As long as pins are on the line, Stern is making money, remember that. This was always a low volume pin. Ghostbusters is gonna sell out.
Quoted from iceman44:I doubt they sell 200 of these
Sandwiched right in between GOT and GB
And I think they planned it that way. And the license cost what? Peanuts. They should subsidize Stern for making the kiddie comic pin
So why'd they do it then?
I can't even. SMVE looks great. That old Spidey look, really? Art is subjective, but come on. Really?
Quoted from jwo825:and by "modern" you must mean with no regard for proper human anatomy and proportions. I'll take classic over that any day.
It's a comic book character man, and it looks great.
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