You do realize that even though the layout was already setup, the rest of the manufacturing process is the same, right? This also includes full quality qualification of new parts, prototypes etc. People are paid to design (dots, new art, new mechanics, new parts), implement, build and test the new pin. I am staying out of the debate on whether Stern is charging too much or too little on this pin - its not a pin for me anyway, but trying to make some point that you can go out and buy raw parts for X amount of money has anything to do with actual design, manufacturing and quality assurance cost is a non starter.....apples and oranges.

I could go either way. Not in love with the art, doesn't upset me. But I'm not a big Spiderman fan so I had to look up the art differences.

EDIT: I thought we all kind of knew it was going to be premium priced though?

Calm down. Of course I realize that. That wasn't my point. The rise in prices according to STERN's FB posts were mostly due to those "upgrades." I was merely speculating as to what those upgrades in the actual BOM may have cost. No more, no less. If you had read and comprehended my last statements in the post you would have realized that and saved yourself the post.

You in the scrap business?

I think realistically most people knew it was going to be premium priced. Some always live in fantasy land.

No color changers, green goblin downgrade and kiddie art seems to hurt big time, amongst other things.

Such as a red SM that is arguably better for less money. Artwork, Goblin and call outs for sure in my book

What I find really interesting was the amount of time Lyman put into this reskin - - think of the opportunity cost of him spending time on a reskin of an old game compared to coding their next game or updating game code for a game currently on the manufacturing line...

I was speaking of ownership.

I knew it would be more than Iron Man VE. I was hoping for a middle ground remake price. $6k shipped instead of $6600 shipped for instance.

It's okay, after hearing the new voicework I'm kinda over it all anyways. Whole thing looks and feels like Ultimate Spider-Man alright, as in the kids cartoon. Not what I'm looking for, I don't buy pinballs for my kids. They think Scared Stiff and The Shadow are the coolest games anyways, they have better taste than that.

Something with better Spidey art and a sound package that wasn't so cutesy (less sandcastle jokes) would have been more compelling.

Shouldn't be a price difference. LCDs are cheaper than DMDs & they already have salaried staff artists/animators. I think we've been paying for the transition already over the past few years.

All very true, but that hasn't stopped them in the past from increasing prices with new technology...

I will eat my proverbial hat if the first LCD game doesn't come with a price increase. It's a good thing I don't have to worry about anyone remembering this post in 2021.

Edit: Literally like a half hour after making this post, someone posts an article where Stern confirms an LCD is coming this year. Man.

Stern sets prices based on what they can get, not on what it costs them (as do most companies) so expect a price increase.

That being said, I expect an LCD will require more programming time than a DMD (if they implement it well), and that adds cost.

Doesn't matter if it "should be" a price increase or not, there will be.
People just spend 2 days bitching aboot how there "shouldn't..." have been the price on the SMVE

I hate these negative threads whenever Stern shows the first pictures of a new game. I dropped the needle on maybe 25 of the 560+ posts and don't plan on delving any further.

It sucks, its ugly, photoshopped art, no LCD, overpriced (quote msrp rather than street price), it is built out of plastic, the call-outs suck, the software is not 100% finished, Gary Stern thinks we are all republicans, its a rehash of old games, and most of all it will not adversely affect the price or desirability of any games I currently own.

I can't find the article anymore....but it was before GoT came out. The interview stated that the operator business is important to have kids get in contact with pinball, to ensure they will also be hooked and buy the collector editions. The other thing that was interesting is that he said Stern would go full in connectivity (like Wifi etc)...Well not for this title....I was hoping something on that would be presented during CES 2016.

I think the artwork on it is great. Love the cabinet and especially the extra touch on the armor.

I think alot of people that thought if it was Premium priced knew they would be out of the market if this was true, so they are just disappointed. People were not all cheap either expecting $4800 either. So many would be in on this if it was $5800 delivered. That is not fantasyland. It is what it should be at and I would guess Stern would sell more and make more money if they did this.

Maybe Stern is living in Fantasy land stretching on pricing for this game that has already been made before. Maybe not though. Do you know anyone who is in? I dont know of anyone yet. My friends buy Sterns also.

Some of the later runs of SM had spider web cut rails as well.

Did they with Whoa Nellie? There's you're answer.

Here's another way to look at the pricepoint: even if Stern would rerun SM as the original game, there's too many stuff on the playfield to sell at a Pro price. But offering the standard model at a Premium price would create an even bigger keyboardstorm than reskinning the game and giving it the comicbook look. Taking parts out to create a new Pro model would also create a storm, so why bother? Reskin it is. Premium price justified (in their book).

.

I feel the price increases over the past few years have been for the "eventual" new technology...now that we're there, I hope they don't jack up the prices again. Psychology goes a long way in pinball....they'll look like friggin' heroes if the new display drops without another price increase.

They would have looked like heroes if they priced SMVE at $5500

I don't think they are going for hero status

What stuff does it have that prices it above a Pro? Metallica and TWD has a lot of "stuff" as well.

LOL true...but they priced it as a Premium...and Premiums already exist at that pricepoint...so - it's in line with current product. It's built as a Premium, too - with metal apron, service rails, special armor, shaker (which most Prems don't get).

If, and that is a big IF, Stern does a TRON VE and they use comic art - and not higher resolutions prints of the original PF/TRON Legacy movie then I hope they don't even bother.

Like from TRON uprising (CRINGE)

http://alienbee.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Tron-Uprising-Disney-XD.jpg

Hey RH, could you possibly point me in the direction of the source for shaker as an inclusion? I can't see it in the press release and it keeps getting mentioned, but I can't spot it mentioned officially anywhere. Thanks.
With metal apron, shaker, proper rails and laser cut armour, surely coming in line with a KISS premium is not outrageous?

Anyone know why they chose SMVE over LOTR, TSPP or Tron? Seems strange to have two similar games being sold at the same time. SM and ST.

Would people (myself included) have cried over the price if it had been LOTR or TSPP at a premium price point?

Stern posted it in a comment on their facebook page.

From Facebook:

Stern Pinball: This was not mentioned in the press release but SMVE also comes factory equipped with a shaker motor.
Stern Pinball: This was not mentioned in the press release but the game also comes with a metal apron and service rails.

Here you go.

Brad

stern_facebook_(resized).png

Basically what used to be the only model from 2000 to 2008 would now be called the LE / Premium model. Strip it down and you get the Pro version.

Relevance of license. Spider-Man is still relevant. Tron is not. Simpsons is - but it was one of their top sellers...possibly twice as many TSPP's out there compared to Spidey....there is no demand for NIB TSPP - they are common and available for a reasonable price if you want one. Also Stern does a lot of licensing with Disney/Marvel - perhaps its easier than going through Fox.

Also, TSPP was on Whitestar...they're not going to put out a Whitestar game again now that they're 2 hardware generations ahead. The only way I could see it coming back as a VE is if it was ported to SPIKE with remastered audio & full color LCD animation on the display and in the TV. Ultimate Anniversary Edition or something....I own a TSPP, but I'd rebuy THAT version of it!

I don't think that's true, not with Spider-Man at least. The things they did with Spider-Man they continue to do with Pros of today.

Rarehero makes a good argument though. All of the extras like shaker, laser-cut rails, metal apron does put SMVE in line with premiums of today. They probably should have just sold those as mods though and priced it closer to IMVE.

A remake of TRON is ALWAYS relevant to pinball collectors as it's one of the best pins Stern has always made. You can't look at these themes out of the context of their category. For example, if someone was going to make a whole new version of let's say Cactus Canyon...call it Cactus Canyon 2016...that theme means nothing to anyone outside of pinball, but to pinball collectors, they would perk up.

Even LEs today don't get shakers included let alone premiums, but SMVE did.

Stern either has a master of business who knows exactly how to slice the models/MSRPs or they throw darts at a board... They know they can sell LEs without shakers now, but didn't think people could swallow a high priced SMVE without one? You can't really slot SMVE into a pro/premium/LE spot, it's a total hybrid.

They know exactly how to price these things to sell. What people don't know is how many units they planned to sell. I'm launching a new tech product now and it's a real simple chart. At $500 we'll sell this many, at $300 this many. They are seeing this as a LUCI like re-release.

They already did like 5 re-runs of Tron for Pinball collectors. Demand has been met.

image_(resized).jpeg

Mr. Sparkle Ed.

Who is in Stern's marketing department? I want to know, as you seem overly confident in something I can almost guarantee, they did not do Marketing research on. Did they call people and ask if they would buy at this price? Did they call operators? Haha. Like moving the power switch.

What is the target market? Is it six figure comic book collectors who love pinball? How many of those people are out there? How many will drop $6500 for it?

My guess is this sells 200-300 units. Is that enough to produce a profit?

As long as pins are on the line, Stern is making money, remember that. This was always a low volume pin. Ghostbusters is gonna sell out.

If the situation was right, it could happen. Say Stern was expecting to move a substantial amount of these and orders were slow to none. We'd probably see something announced within a few weeks. Kind of what could come true with smve. On the other hand if Stern is testing the market and would be content with sales of 250, they probably wouldn't give current pricing a second thought.

There are enough reasons raised in this thread that Stern could use as justification. SMVE (after removing extra bling) and a MSRP of $5.995k (street price $5k) would make many more people interested. The option of offering a SM pro vault edition at $5k would be very tempting. Come on Stern, give us a Spidey we can afford.

This is bull shit! Gary says that just to try and calm us.

I doubt they sell 200 of these

Sandwiched right in between GOT and GB

And I think they planned it that way. And the license cost what? Peanuts. They should subsidize Stern for making the kiddie comic pin

So why'd they do it then?

I think its because they probably have the "license" for several years and can do small runs from time to time to as you say, "keep the line moving".

OR they F ed up big time.

They can park a slew of them at Automated and let them blow SM out later

I see it as an business tactic to take or keep money away from the competition. Along with profit of course.
Smart IMO.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, due to a busy night at work I've had a quick look at pics and scanned over the dozen pages in this thread but has anyone got a good pic of the new VE playfield backboard? On my 2010 SM Red I had 3 bulbs/modes for venom and sandman from the photos shown (maybe it's just the angle) but it only looks like there's now 1 for each on this VE

World Poker Tour to TWD are all Sam (including IM-VE) - TWD-Pro-Premium-LE was technically the last of the Sam System Games until apparently SM-VE
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?mpu=54&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced

Still three. Most have new names, but otherwise it looks almost the same.