(Topic ID: 239479)

Speculation: If BK3 Was licensed by Stern, why wouldn't MM2 be next?


By BC_Gambit

53 days ago



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  • 31 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 51 days ago by SuperPinball
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    #1 53 days ago

    Given Brian Eddy was a recent hire by Stern, and Williams and Stern seem willing to work together to make some cash...

    I would be pure madness for them to not go back to the well to do an updated Medieval Madness, AFM etc...

    Those would be relatively "cheap" games to clone (unless they went mad with the hardware), but with updated software and lighting that might finally push the original versions down a peg or two.

    The originals are all time greats, but hoping some sequels pop up in the next year or two

    What do you think?

    #2 53 days ago

    Do you work in Hollywood? Your idea for original themes is to make sequels of existing games that require you pay for the IP. Why not just pay for the IP of popular themes then? An original unlicensed theme should not require a license!

    #3 53 days ago
    Quoted from TheGunnett:

    Do you work in Hollywood? Your idea for original themes is to make sequels of existing games that require you pay for the IP. Why not just pay for the IP of popular themes then? An original unlicensed theme should not require a license!

    I don't work in Hollywood, but I can see when a company is trying to bury its competition. Remake MB? We'll do Munsters etc

    It seems to me a sequel to MM and AFM from Stern, done by Brian Eddy would be well received. Hell, BK is a niche game compared to those and look at the response to BK3.

    Why would you license BK when you could just have Steve make a similar game named "Dark Demon" or something... because you make more money from us pinball nerds when you have the brand recognition of the BK name. Do you work in Hollywood? That seems like common sense to me

    #4 53 days ago

    You know Black Knight/BK2K has sold over 20000 machines, right?

    That’s like MM and AFM combined and tripled.

    #5 53 days ago

    I think one challenge is the comparison. The new Black Knight that Stern can make will compare favorably to the old Williams versions from 30 and nearly 40 years ago. An MM2 would be compared to a machine, the original MM, that has more in playfield engineering and cost than Stern has shown a willingness to make.

    I think it would be an interesting machine to be sure, Sterns take on MM w/ an LCD and all that. I just worry that it would be too expensive for Stern to build a comparable or better play field to compare favorably.

    #6 53 days ago

    Not to mention it would be two castle and knights type themes. But I'm waiting for a great new original 50's type sci fi. So a afm2 works.

    But hey what's up with cosmic chaos...

    #7 53 days ago
    Quoted from jarozi:

    I think one challenge is the comparison. The new Black Knight that Stern can make will compare favorably to the old Williams versions from 30 and nearly 40 years ago. An MM2 would be compared to a machine, the original MM, that has more in playfield engineering and cost than Stern has shown a willingness to make.
    I think it would be an interesting machine to be sure, Sterns take on MM w/ and LCD and all that. I just worry that it would be too expensive for Stern to engineer a comparable or better better play field to compare favorably.

    Exactly...since Stern won't make any under-playfield troughs, there would be no shot into the castle or side-door lock - it would be held and dropped down the middle a la ST, GOTG, Metallica, WD, etc. Or maybe just a big King of Payne bash toy with a magnet? Not a good look in comparison.

    #8 53 days ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Exactly...since Stern won't make any under-playfield troughs, there would be no shot into the castle or side-door lock - it would be held and dropped down the middle a la ST, GOTG, Metallica, WD, etc. Or maybe just a big King of Pain bash toy with a magnet? Not a good look in comparison.

    I agree Stern would have to step it up a bit. But hey they brought inline drops and playfield support rails back so anything is possible if they see green at the end of the tunnel

    #9 53 days ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Exactly...since Stern won't make any under-playfield troughs, there would be no shot into the castle or side-door lock - it would be held and dropped down the middle a la ST, GOTG, Metallica, WD, etc. Or maybe just a big King of Pain bash toy with a magnet? Not a good look in comparison.

    Agreed. And in fact in the BKSOR interviews Steve talked about how when you destroy the castle or gate, that it's represented by lighting effects in the backboard. Nothing wrong with that, it looks great in the video. But it's not as interesting, to me, as a physical castle that has doors and moats and swaying towers and all that.

    Same goes for the other things that are going to be on the LCD, the mini boss fights and the creature slaying and all that. It would be cool if those things were on the play field. Think of the way you kill the martians in AFM for example, there they are down where your eyes are. It's just more fun, to me, to have those things interact with the ball rather than be an animation. I'm not good enough a player to watch the screen and field during a game.

    I think it would be cool if they moved the LCD to the backboard CV style so that maybe now the animations could appear to interact with a ball. For example a scoop near the backboard that when hit would trigger an animation near the scoop that made it look like the ball destroyed an army of skeletons, or something like that.

    #10 53 days ago
    Quoted from jarozi:

    Agreed. And in fact in the BKSOR interviews Steve talked about how when you destroy the castle or gate, that it's represented by lighting effects in the backboard. Nothing wrong with that, it looks great in the video. But it's not as interesting, to me, as a physical castle that has doors and moats and swaying towers and all that.
    Same goes for the other things that are going to be on the LCD, the mini boss fights and the creature slaying and all that. It would be cool if those things were on the play field. Think of the way you kill the martians in AFM for example, there they are down where your eyes are. It's just more fun, to me, to have those things interact with the ball rather than be an animation. I'm not good enough a player to watch the screen and field during a game.
    I think it would be cool if they moved the LCD to the backboard CV style so that maybe now the animations could appear to interact with a ball. For example a scoop near the backboard that when hit would trigger an animation near the scoop that made it look like the ball destroyed an army of skeletons, or something like that.

    Your idea re the more integrated display would be badass!

    Moving art and some mode or gameplay integration. With room for pedestrian things like your score

    #11 53 days ago

    Leave Eddy alone please, let him work on Jaws and good luck to u sir. I have no interest in a MM or MB or AFM rehash.

    #12 53 days ago

    So what your saying is what was old is new again?

    #13 53 days ago

    there is also the distance of time
    it has been almost 30 years since bk2000, and that game is not going to be remade
    where MM has only recently been remade, and could be again

    #14 53 days ago

    In addition to all that has been said we don't even know if the license is available/ what the conditions between Planetary Pinball and CGC are.

    #15 53 days ago
    Quoted from DS_Nadine:

    In addition to all that has been said we don't even know if the license is available/ what the conditions between Planetary Pinball and CGC are.

    Correct. There may be some IP exclusivity or something but that would surprise me. I do get surprised from Time to time.

    #16 53 days ago

    Let's just retheme Taxi into James Corden's Carpool Karaoke. Then Stern can use any and every musical genre known and satisfy its music pin for the year!

    #17 53 days ago
    Quoted from gunstarhero:

    You know Black Knight/BK2K has sold over 20000 machines, right?
    That’s like MM and AFM combined and tripled.

    Don’t forget BK and BK2K were released in 80 and 89. MM and AFM in 97 and 95. Pinball sales and earnings in the 80s were good (though BK2K wasn’t a strong earner) but in the mid to late 90s, pinball sales were tough and earnings compared to gun, driving and fighting games were very poor.

    #18 53 days ago

    Since we're speculating, likely pps and Chicago gaming have something in the contract that would not allow the license to be used by anyone else for x amount of years.

    #19 53 days ago

    MM, AFM and MB were just remade. CGC is still selling them. You can check off any DMD game CGC sees a potential of remaking in the future.
    However I would love to see some other original non-licensed pre-DMD games revamped into new games.
    Funhouse being my number one pick. Just like BK it's an iconic alpha-numeric game that is recognized by just about anyone that has ever been to an arcade in the 90's.

    #20 53 days ago

    The only MM revamp that Stern could make to best CGC’s MMR would be to make the licensed Monty Python & the Holy Grail game. The license could be had because I’ve played the slot machine. Must have sound and video from the movie, Knights who say Ni! , bash toy knight instead of troll (it’s just a flesh wound...), etc. a dream theme many here including myself would be in on that day 1

    #21 53 days ago
    Quoted from oPinsesame:

    The only MM revamp that Stern could make to best CGC’s MMR would be to make the licensed Monty Python & the Holy Grail game. The license could be had because I’ve played the slot machine. Must have sound and video from the movie, Knights who say Ni! , bash toy knight instead of troll (it’s just a flesh wound...), etc. a dream theme many here including myself would be in on that day 1

    That would be interesting too. But maybe even more niche than mm2.

    People are losing it over bk3!

    Mm2 seems like a no brainer.

    #22 53 days ago

    Why in God's name is there not a drain icon next to threads?!?!!? Mods this is a shout out to you!!!!!!!

    #24 53 days ago

    I like the 80s theme sequel now how bout Centaur III ?

    #25 53 days ago
    Quoted from vwallat99:

    I like the 80s theme sequel now how bout Centaur III ?

    I'd be in on Hard Bodies Instagram Thot LE

    #26 53 days ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    Correct. There may be some IP exclusivity or something but that would surprise me. I do get surprised from Time to time.

    Well,... since Stern contract-manufactured MMR, I as a licensor, somehow would make sure they may not manufacture it themselfs under their own brand.

    #27 52 days ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    MM2 is folly. There's no improving on MM.

    I am sure this is wrong; it doesn't mean a MM2 would be better but come on; with 20 years of new ideas especially re: code, I am sure there is a way to bake a better MM.

    Quoted from vwallat99:

    I like the 80s theme sequel now how bout Centaur III ?

    I could see Stern charging $8 to $10 k for a centaur rehash but with something more close to Beatles content playfield wise. Money in the bank

    Quoted from Swainer80:

    Why in God's name is there not a drain icon next to threads?!?!!? Mods this is a shout out to you!!!!!!!

    Wow, happy Friday to you too

    #28 52 days ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    Don’t forget BK and BK2K were released in 80 and 89. MM and AFM in 97 and 95. Pinball sales and earnings in the 80s were good (though BK2K wasn’t a strong earner) but in the mid to late 90s, pinball sales were tough and earnings compared to gun, driving and fighting games were very poor.

    Oh sure, but to say “BK is a niche game compared to....” is less than accurate.

    MM and AFM are all time greats, but BK is one of as well.

    #29 52 days ago

    Please no. Because this is how it would go down.

    Dear customers,
    Mr Eddy is working on Stern's version of a medieval madness type theme. Because that's all we will let him do.
    As we started the remake builds and saw how popular it was.

    This new exciting machine will be Reusing the 24 house and army men as a castle. A big squeeky spinning disk from potc or CSI instead of trolls. The cannon from ACDC instead of the catapult. That will only hit what it's supposed too or work 10% of the time.

    But it will have one giant stand up target on it that lights up. 1 hit at a time a letter to spell out " the Renaissance period"
    To pass the savings and ease of maintaince on to you.

    Also there will be on the premium and LE the rocket, war machine, buck hunter, star trek, game of thrones, style kickback. Because they have a surplus in stock. And George needs a new Challenger.

    And it will have similar type shot as the damsel shot but use a bash toy will be the Aerosmith pro elevator and Jackie's head for the princess

    It Won't have a coindoor. But will be the first Wi-Fi enabled game to allow pay to play tournaments. And directly remove money from your credit or debit as soon as you walk up to the machine. Even in home use. It will not turn on, or start without being connected to the paid online subscription. With no winnings or incentives. And no automatic updates. But this will pass the savings and ease of use to our loyal operators.

    And for a $30 a month subscription you will get emails telling you code is coming soon. And where you can enter more paid tournaments or buy Stern Swag.

    But wait there's more!
    The woodgrained and pre dimpled playfield. And pre split cabinet really brings out the antique weathered look the artists were going for.
    But...to pass the savings on to you again, inserts are also misspelled and pre ghosting.
    Node boards are to be replaced at customers expense. Recommended every 3 months or 1000 plays. Because of just how many amazing new innovative and surprising features will be packed into this game.

    Features list.

    1 standup that lights 20 white inserts in displayed in a row.
    White on white color changing only.GI To pass on more savings to you.
    1 kickback
    2 flippers
    3 ball multiball
    1 spinning disk LE, and premium only
    0 slings as this is a unique new game. And the savings will be passed again to the customer.
    1 bobblehead bashtoy
    1 Collapsing cottage LE only
    1 misaligned cannon LE and SLE only
    No cannon on pro or premium model
    1 bent wire form ramp. LE and SLE only
    1 plastic ramp Pro only
    1 magnet (somewhere)
    8 intense white flashers directed at direct eye vantage point. For true game immersion.
    1 Manual plunger for that true vintage feel.
    Pre weathered playfield and cabinets on all models.
    Guaranteed to have been left open in the Stern parking lot for at last 3 days each in the rain.
    Signed by Gary himself with a certificate of authenticity. LE, and SLE only.
    1 garbage Pail kids sticker on the speaker panel. For nostalgia.
    And "some" ultra rare SLE models have a chicitta banana sticker from a random employees lunch on the apron. As any true super LE should

    All this, at the low Pro Starting point of $7999
    $9999 premium. And $12,000 for the LE.
    And limited to 1000 Super LE's at the amazing price of $39,000. As this is Brian Eddys epic return after a 20 year absence from pinball. And we at Sten agree it was worth the wait.

    Our gift to the loyal customers of Sten pinball.
    And in celebration of Brian's return. In that true Stern pinball way.

    Look for our extras coming from the Stern Shop. Like straight Legs, blade decals, and ultimate, super, mega, Limited edition toppers. No items listed come standard on any model.
    Some assembly required.

    #30 51 days ago

    Wait for a Elvira 3 !!! That will definitely be another disgrace to some of the most recognized Pinball’s ever made. What else can we ruin ?

    #31 51 days ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    Wait for a Elvira 3 !!! That will definitely be another disgrace to some of the most recognized Pinball’s ever made. What else can we ruin ?

    You forgot to mention the part where you need to send in a video of yourself acting like a jackass begging for the privilege of buying one of the SLE's.

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