(Topic ID: 267250)

Spanish Eyes - Balls to Play Decreasing with Pop Bumper Hits?

By lint

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by lint
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#1 1 year ago

Hi All, I finally got motivated to work on this machine. When the game is started as soon as the "On Bumpers" button is rolled over at the top of the machine each pop bumper hit decreases a ball to play? Needless to say this makes for a short game when on 3 ball play. Any suggestions where to start searching for this odd issue?

#2 1 year ago

Check that you have the Jones plugs in correctly. One may be off by one.

#3 1 year ago

Check your Outhole relay, esp. this M/B, for cleanliness and solid contact.

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#4 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikala:

Check that you have the Jones plugs in correctly. One may be off by one.

checked them and cleaned them (previously). all appear correct. any specific plug?

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check your Outhole relay, esp. this M/B, for cleanliness and solid contact.[quoted image]

thanks, will check this afternoon and report back.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check your Outhole relay, esp. this M/B, for cleanliness and solid contact.[quoted image]

Out hole relay is cleaned and adjusted now. Didn't appear to need it. no change in game. Game is set to freeplay on Replay. The Replay/Add A Ball/Novelty Jones Plug setting is a bit odd. Is the paper stapled a little low or should the red line on the male end line up with the paper? The manual shows a Star shaped selector for this option.

Current state of machine; Powers up, Left flipper activates GI, start button works to start a game. reset sequence works, score reels reset to zero and ball kicks out. I have it set on 3 Balls, as soon as the "On Bumpers" rollover is activated every pop registers as a lost ball. usually one plunge kills the game back to GAME OVER. Scoring does not register at all. Reels are dead unless I manually activate. They do reset to zero on power up. I have noticed the Match unit locked on once or twice during testing but cannot replicate.

I have completely gone over the backbox, disassembled the score reels and cleaned and adjusted, the ball count unit, match unit and Replay unit. They all work smooth and in good order. I am comfortable in backboxes, not so much under the Playfield.

This is my first Williams, I have worked on and solved many issues in Gottlieb Wedgeheads. I am far from proficient though.

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#7 1 year ago

Machine when I picked it up:
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Current state after thorough cleaning:
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#8 1 year ago

That jones plug you posted, have you tried moving that down one position?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Dono:

That jones plug you posted, have you tried moving that down one position?

yes. no noticeable change. I suspect there are several issues (posted above) that are in the way first.

#10 1 year ago

My Spanish Eyes is missing the label for Replay/AAB/Novelty but your plug is seated the way that mine is.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from newovad:

My Spanish Eyes is missing the label for Replay/AAB/Novelty but your plug is seated the way that mine is.

thanks for the affirmation. Ill keep it as-is while continuing to debug.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

Scoring does not register at all. Reels are dead unless I manually activate.

So, if you start a game and manually activate anything that should score, ie-RO, sling, etc, it does not?

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

So, if you start a game and manually activate anything that should score, ie-RO, sling, etc, it does not?

correct, I start a game and if I manually touch any sling or RO it does not score. What it does do as I just observed is lock on the 10pt relay and the match unit coils. they hold tight until I turn the game off. Score motor seems to be working fine. If I manually move it and turn it on it returns to its starting position. On pressing the game start button it does a rotation and appears to be ready for action.

#14 1 year ago

Did you see this On Bumper M/B right in the middle? Try disabling that relay and see what happens when you start up. I think something is shorting somewhere.

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#15 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Did you see this On Bumper M/B right in the middle? Try disabling that relay and see what happens when you start up. I think something is shorting somewhere.[quoted image]

I did see it and had cleaned and adjusted it early on in my troubleshooting. I just rechecked it and no issues that I can see. Locks on when the On Bumper rollover is activated. I agree there seems to be something shorted or out of alignment. I am just out of ideas. I am suspecting now I need to back up and check through things more basic. I am not positive where to start at this point though.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far everyone! I am learning a ton.

#16 1 year ago

On 1970s Williams Machines Do I also need to clip this second set of switches to make free play work? I clipped the top two but there is a white spacer connected to the top two that moves the two I have an arrow on to connect as well during an actual credit on the wheel.
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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

Do I also need to clip this second set of switches to make free play work?

No. That 2nd switch turns on the Credit light on the horizontal metal apron near the left flipper button.

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#18 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

What it does do as I just observed is lock on the 10pt relay

Very basic, but have you checked that you do not have one of the 10pt playfield switches incorrectly adjusted so being permanently closed?

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

Locks on when the On Bumper rollover is activated. I agree there seems to be something shorted or out of alignment.

Again, try disabling that relay, either by blocking switches or cutting a lead, and see what happens.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Again, try disabling that relay, either by blocking switches or cutting a lead, and see what happens.

will try this later today and report back.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Again, try disabling that relay, either by blocking switches or cutting a lead, and see what happens.

blocked off the switches with some paper. no ball decrement, but still no scoring or much o anything else. Game still starts, dispenses ball into trough and plays but no scoring. Match relay still locks on with 10pt relay. Ill be checking all 10pt switches later tonight to see if any are closed.

The game does not appeared to have been monkeyed with internally which is good. everything appears stock and I have checked over all wires with a tug to make sure they are soldiered correctly. I think I have checked all switch tabs for any fold-over shorting. Did not see any that presented an issue.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

Match relay still locks on with 10pt relay.

How about if you block sw. A (hold) on the 10s relay at start up? Also, is Match on or off?

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#23 1 year ago

Last nite it occurred to me that it may be contacts barely touching on the slings or other bumpers. Have you checked them?

#24 1 year ago

Spanish Eyes has a lot of 10 point stand up switches. Sometimes a rubber ring will cause them to close. I would remove all rings with switches behind them (there's at least eight) and leave them off until you are done troubleshooting.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Spanish Eyes has a lot of 10 point stand up switches. Sometimes a rubber ring will cause them to close. I would remove all rings with switches behind them (there's at least eight) and leave them off until you are done troubleshooting.

fantastic idea. still working through suggestions

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Also, is Match on or off?[quoted image]

Match is On. Replay is Selected in the backbox.

Quoted from edednedy:

Spanish Eyes has a lot of 10 point stand up switches. Sometimes a rubber ring will cause them to close. I would remove all rings with switches behind them (there's at least eight) and leave them off until you are done troubleshooting.

I pulled the rubbers around the playfield standup switches to separate them. Targets were still active. Didn't appear to change the 10pt lock-on issue. I started a game and manually activated the 10pt relay and it locks on along with the match coil (w/ bell) immediately.

Here is a quick video I filmed of what it is doing:
https://vimeo.com/413829228

I think I am going to pull the bottom board up and out this weekend to get a better eye level look at things.

#27 1 year ago

For your 10 point lock on issue, check the end-of-stroke switch on your 10 point score reel in the backbox. That switch has to open at the end of it's stroke. If it's not opening, the 10 point relay will never let go.

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#28 1 year ago

Don't forget to check that 10 pt. RO button on the lower PF.

#29 1 year ago

IMO, you don't need to pull the bottom board strictly for your 10 point lock on issue...

I'm convinced the last several posters are on point with your issue...

either:

A: you've got a 10 point switch closed somewhere OR
B: your 10 point HOLD switch contact never opens in the latch position.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from edednedy:

For your 10 point lock on issue, check the end-of-stroke switch on your 10 point score reel in the backbox. That switch has to open at the end of it's stroke. If it's not opening, the 10 point relay will never let go.[quoted image]

10pt and Match Lock on is resolved. dirty EOS switch! I had cleaned it prior but looking at it through a magnifying glass there was a VERY hard bead of tarnish on it. once I got through it with the flex stone it scores and releases.

Still getting ball in play decreases with pop bumper hits. heard some other locked relays but will investigate more later. Thanks again everyone. Learning a lot about troubleshooting steps.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from lint:

...Still getting ball in play decreases with pop bumper hits. heard some other locked relays but will investigate more later. Thanks again everyone. Learning a lot about troubleshooting steps.

Have you eyeballed the ball in play unit while someone else plays a ball? Perhaps the spindle wheel isn't being locked in properly and vibration is causing the unit to step down due to improper engagement; just a thought.

#32 1 year ago

Had some time to replace the crusty fuse block today. Existing fuses all checked out but were nearly fused into the original holder. The Dorman HELP! series found at most auto stores fit perfectly and even the screw holes lined up.
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4 months later
#33 1 year ago

just to close out this thread. The problem with the ball count decreasing was fixed. The issue was the ball trough switch was adjusted too close together and was bouncing into each other every time the pop bumpers would hit. very frustrating chasing schematics for something so stupid.

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