(Topic ID: 58120)

Space Station Club... Members Only!

By mof

10 years ago


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#3769 1 year ago

Working on a new to me Space Station. In overall excellent condition. Have had it about 1 week now and have started to notice a few minor issues.

The main one that is bothering me revolves around the lamp matrix. I am assuming it is one or more diodes that have failed but perhaps it has to do with LEDs being installed in some spots.

LEDs have been installed in most areas behind the glass along with most of the inserts on the playfield. There are still incandescents in all bonus awards (shuttle and station).

Here is what my individual lamp test produced.

Stop and score will not light up during my lamp test but it does work during all lamps test and seems to work properly during gameplay.

All of the bonus award inserts lamps cause another lamp to light up also. They are as follows.

Under the shuttle and station bonus awards, each one lights up the same other light.

SPECIAL lights up “relaunch when lit”
EXTRA BALL lights up “docked port side”
50000 + lites outlanes lights up “hold bonus”
50000 + lites bonus ball lights up “docked starboard side”
150000 + hold bonus lights up Station Wheel 3 (which is the left most bulb behind the Williams logo)
75000 lights up Station Wheel 2 (middle bulb behind Williams logo)
25000 lights up Station Wheel 1 (which is the right most bulb behind the Williams logo) - when 25000 is lit up on the station side, not only does it light up the right Williams logo bulb but it also lights up the 25000 bonus award light on the shuttle side.

And when station wheel 1 is lit (right most bulb behind the Williams logo) - 25000 bonus award is lit up on the shuttle side only.

I think that is all of the issues with the light matrix but have no idea where to start to troubleshoot this issue. And during a game it is pretty annoying when it says that balls are locked when they actually are not.

What should I test first? Could it have anything to do with the LEDs and perhaps switching back to incandescents would solve the issue? Or is that just hopeful thinking??

Thanks in advance for anyone’s help on this!

#3771 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

That won't be related to LED's vs incandescents.
Can you post a few pictures of the lamp board from underneath? Try and show the connector. I would expect your issue is something got crossed up or incorrectly pinned on the connector itself. Lets have a look at the wire colours on that connector and compare to the schematic. If the problem isn't at the lamp board underneath the playfield, it will be with the corresponding connector in the backbox.[quoted image]

Thanks for the reply. I will take a photo later and add it here.

#3772 1 year ago

Alright here are the photos.

Front left to right I see the following wire colors

Red / green
Red / yellow
Red / orange
Red / black
Red / blue
Red / violet
Red / grey
Not used
Yellow / red
Yellow / grey

Small plug which I believe is for the flashers has orange and black / orange.

The bigger plug from left to right is as follows.

Red / orange
Red / black
Red / yellow
Red / green
Not used
Yellow / blue

1J6

Red / grey
Red / violet
Red / blue
Red / green
Red / yellow
Not used
Red / orange
Red / brown
Red / black

1J7

Yellow / grey
Yellow / violet
Yellow / blue
Yellow / green
Not used
Yellow / black
Yellow / orange
Yellow / red
Yellow / brown

I am suspecting that the yellow/red wire on the large bonus award light board should be yellow/violet but it is nowhere to be found near there. The only other lamp that the yellow/violet controls is the big flame in the back box.

Confused…..

117754F3-0728-4890-A9F9-271CE00E5C86 (resized).jpeg117754F3-0728-4890-A9F9-271CE00E5C86 (resized).jpeg6F9666BC-9A97-4463-A3CB-AB9AA2310272 (resized).jpeg6F9666BC-9A97-4463-A3CB-AB9AA2310272 (resized).jpeg79F6F374-57F8-484B-A9BD-A9E6A8144826 (resized).jpeg79F6F374-57F8-484B-A9BD-A9E6A8144826 (resized).jpeg851C9951-139F-41B0-93BE-05CF6661B5FE (resized).jpeg851C9951-139F-41B0-93BE-05CF6661B5FE (resized).jpeg9AD3263B-14B9-43CD-B8E8-CE648FCF6E7D (resized).jpeg9AD3263B-14B9-43CD-B8E8-CE648FCF6E7D (resized).jpeg
#3773 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

That won't be related to LED's vs incandescents.
Can you post a few pictures of the lamp board from underneath? Try and show the connector. I would expect your issue is something got crossed up or incorrectly pinned on the connector itself. Lets have a look at the wire colours on that connector and compare to the schematic. If the problem isn't at the lamp board underneath the playfield, it will be with the corresponding connector in the backbox.[quoted image]

Now that I am looking closer the wire on the light board may actually be a faded yellow / violet. So I think all of the wires are correct.

#3776 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

Where are you btw? In Canada? Ontario?

Yes Ottawa Ontario Canada.

#3777 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

Ok, good info and good pics. Looking at the connectors on both the backbox board and the main bonus board underneath and they all look ok. What doesn't look right to me is the smaller diamond shaped board that has your docked lights as well as the large extra ball light. On my board in that same spot, I have a raised additional smaller board that has the two flashers in it. Your board does not seem to have that and instead, your flashers are soldered directly to the main board.
I'm not sure how this was done or even whether it was factory when things were evolving. It's the most significant thing I see that isn't the same as my own game. That small two wire connector that goes into your diamond shaped board in the lower left hand corner, actually connects into my raised mini-board. I'm concerned something is off here and that's what is causing your game lights to not work correctly.
What you could probably do without any additional risk of damaging something, is to take the flasher bulbs out (which you may need to do from the front of the board so remove the board from the playfield enough to reach those bulbs and untwist them from their holders), or simply disconnect that small connector with the orange + orange/black wires on it... and see what happens.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Yes I noticed that as well. I actually have a fully populated extra playfield that was included with the purchase of this machine and that diamond shaped board on the spare playfield is the same as yours. I could try swapping the whole board to test that out as well.

Will try that later today or tomorrow and report back. Thanks for all your help so far.

#3779 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

You're welcome. I know of two other Space Station owners in the area. Well, near Toronto anyway. Lots of help available. Let us know how you make out with the board swap. And happy new year!

Tried unplugging the diamond shaped light board and still getting the same behaviour (apart from the lights being activated on the diamond shaped board obviously). So I am pretty sure this is just a unique / rare board that may have been used at one point or another. This particular machine I believe was imported from France or at least was setup at some point in France due to the coin door being setup for francs.

Where should I look next?

#3781 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

Did you already go through each light in lamp test mode? Meaning, turn each bulb on one at a time and note what happens? I wasn't sure if that double lighting behaviour you are seeing was only in gameplay or in the test mode too. If you are trying to tell just one light to come on yet both do, perhaps there is a way to trace back to where that single signal is crossing over and making them both happen? I think we need to still try and narrow things down some and see what lights are working correctly and which ones aren't. Then trying to see if those wonky acting lights are all on the same column or row in the lamp matrix and go from there.
Was your game the one that was for sale recently in Quebec? I remember seeing one that had an extra plastic of some kind just below the space station rotating toy, kind of across the ramp right near the top. Never saw that before and wondered where it had come from.

I purchased it from Ottawa about a week ago but yes it was the one with the extra plastic but that was just the original key chain installed there for whatever reason.

I did go through the individual lamp test and that is how I determined the issue but it also appears during gameplay as well the same behaviour.

I did just find this on the main board and maybe this is the cause??

04FAA211-F4E7-46D6-A241-97EC436D0E00 (resized).jpeg04FAA211-F4E7-46D6-A241-97EC436D0E00 (resized).jpegC4387A93-D279-49F5-AD89-77B77BEB3731 (resized).jpegC4387A93-D279-49F5-AD89-77B77BEB3731 (resized).jpeg
#3782 1 year ago

After revising the manual, looks like Q78/Q79 have something to do with the jet bumpers and they all work as they should so likely not the issue with regards to the lamp issue.

#3783 1 year ago

After further inspection of the lamp matrix, all the the issues are indeed tied to column 6,7,8.

When any light is lit in column 7 or 8, it also lights up the light in the same row of column 6.

The one unique situation is when row 8 column 6 is lit, it lights up the lamp in row 8 column 7. The other unique situation is when column 8 row 8 is lit, lamps in row 8 column 6 and 7 are also lit.

Seems to be things are pointing towards an issue with row 8 of the lamp matrix?

#3785 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Now that you know what the issues are, you need to figure out if the cpu or the play field is the cause. Remove 1J6 and 1J7 from the cpu and place game in lamp test. Make up a lamp socket and bulb with some jumper wires, add a diode in series just like the factory does. Move thru the test to row 8/ column 8. Then use you test lamp on the correct pins and see if multiple lamps are lit now or if just the one correct light is active. If you find that the cpu is working correct then look at the diodes for the lamps that are miss behaving. You will find someone miss wired a socket, installed a diode backwards or a diode has shorted.

Thank you. That will be my next step. I have lots of extra lamp sockets and diodes and test leads that I can create a lamp socket.

If it ends up being a CPU issue, I am guessing that is a lot more involved/problematic and will require a professional to troubleshoot and fix?

#3786 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Now that you know what the issues are, you need to figure out if the cpu or the play field is the cause. Remove 1J6 and 1J7 from the cpu and place game in lamp test. Make up a lamp socket and bulb with some jumper wires, add a diode in series just like the factory does. Move thru the test to row 8/ column 8. Then use you test lamp on the correct pins and see if multiple lamps are lit now or if just the one correct light is active. If you find that the cpu is working correct then look at the diodes for the lamps that are miss behaving. You will find someone miss wired a socket, installed a diode backwards or a diode has shorted.

I tried one other thing by unplugging the 14 lamp bonus award lamp board and going through the individual lamp test and it still lit up the extra bulbs so now I think it may be a bigger issue than a shorted diode. Perhaps a CPU problem somewhere more upstream.

#3787 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Now that you know what the issues are, you need to figure out if the cpu or the play field is the cause. Remove 1J6 and 1J7 from the cpu and place game in lamp test. Make up a lamp socket and bulb with some jumper wires, add a diode in series just like the factory does. Move thru the test to row 8/ column 8. Then use you test lamp on the correct pins and see if multiple lamps are lit now or if just the one correct light is active. If you find that the cpu is working correct then look at the diodes for the lamps that are miss behaving. You will find someone miss wired a socket, installed a diode backwards or a diode has shorted.

So I unplugged 1J6 and 1J7 and tested every individual lamp directly from the CPU and each row and column combination only lights up one lamp combination.

Take that as a good sign but now need to figure out where the issue lies.

What’s my next steps? How do I know which diodes to test?

#3789 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I figured that it was a PF issue, but you have to know for sure. I would first make sure that no lamp sockets are touching each other. After that I would look at each lamp socket diode and wires, they need to look like my pic. Red wire(s) soldered to the band of the diode, other lead of the diode soldered to the center pin of the lamp socket. The yellow wire(s) soldered to the outer tab of the socket. Now for the lamp boards, ensure the diodes are all installed the correct direction, check the header pin solder joints to make sure that if someone reflowed the solder that they didn't bridge any pins. If all this is fine then you need to start testing each diode for shorts. I would start with lamp #64 and work down from there.
[quoted image]

Found something last night online regarding some cheaper LEDs that act like a diode if installed the wrong direction. Turns out after changing all the LEDs back to incandescent it fixed all of my lamp matrix issues. Game is so much more fun when the correct lights are lit up at the correct time.

Thanks to everyone for your help!

#3790 1 year ago

New question with regards to fuses in my Space Station.

I was going through all of the fuses and wanting to make sure they were the correct ones and I noticed that the 2x fuse holder between the power supply and the sound board had fuses labelled BUSS MDL 8A.

From my understanding, these should be 1/10 AMP SB correct? So these having 8 amp fuses is a recipe for a disaster if something was to happen that the fuse should have blown before frying something else?

Most of the other ones were correct. I did find one other one that should have been a 2A SB that had a 5A SB instead.

#3791 1 year ago

Actually maybe they are 0.8 A SB….

#3793 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The manual is your friend. Download a digital copy if you don't have a printed one. Then read it. There's lots of good information in it.
It's probably these fuses.
[quoted image]

I do have a printed manual and yes I believe those are the ones I am referring to.

I’m assuming I should source some 0.1 A fuses to replace the 0.8 A fuses that are currently installed.

#3795 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

That's what the manual says. It is also printed elsewhere in the same manual. Read the manual. It is your friend.
[quoted image]
Later power supply boards in System 11B games (Taxi onward) moved the backbox fuse to the board and changed the rating to 1/8A (0.125A). You can safely substitute a 1/8A SB fuse.

Thank you. I guess what I am trying to figure out is, is this an 8 Amp fuse or a 1/8 amp fuse?

See photo below. I have a feeling these are way over fused!!

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#3797 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

That's 8A. You can tell by the thickness and spacing of the wire in the spiral.
These 3AG fuses are not metric. Their ratings are always whole numbers or fractions. Never decimals.
If that were 1/8A you would see "1/8A". It would never be labeled as "0.125A" or "125mA".
In contrast a metric fuse is labeled as "250mA" and never "1/4A".

Thank you so much. I’m new to SS pinball machines. Would you recommend not turning the machine back on until I replace the fuses with the correct amp ratings? Will need to order from PB Resource and takes about a week to get to me.

#3799 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Just remove the fuses for now, you can still play the game but you will not see your displays.

Thanks! I have emailed PBResource an order for a bunch of fuses. I don’t have any spare slow blow fuses so figured it would be good to have them all on hand anyways.

#3801 1 year ago
Quoted from AlexRogan84:

You can also get fuses at any Sayal electronics store. Or of course PinballMedics.ca right there in Ottawa... https://pinballmedics.ca/product/1-1-4-slow-blow-fuse-kit/

I saw that kit at pinballmedics but doesn’t have the one main fuse that I am searching for. Thanks for the link though.

1 week later
#3802 1 year ago

New question for all the space station / system 11 gurus.

Looks to be a blown capacitor next to U21?

Any idea what issues / problems this could cause? Or was this intentionally cut?

3105DD1E-99CB-428A-971C-2AA8983405B1 (resized).jpeg3105DD1E-99CB-428A-971C-2AA8983405B1 (resized).jpeg

#3803 1 year ago

From a little bit of googling I have figured out this is a bypass capacitor for chip U21.

What issues would this cause being blown? Could it cause static on the speakers?

And what other major issues / problems could arise if I don’t replace it?

Thanks in advance.

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