(Topic ID: 58120)

Space Station Club... Members Only!

By mof

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 days ago by DanMarino
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There are 4,188 posts in this topic. You are on page 68 of 84.
#3351 2 years ago

My pop bumper transistor actually caught fire. This happens if the pop switch gets stuck on (which can easily happen). I added fuses to the pop bumpers after the fire.

#3352 2 years ago

It's starting to sound as though this machine is a fire hazard!

#3353 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

It's starting to sound as though this machine is a fire hazard!

There's lots of ways to make a pinball machine catch fire.

System11b were the last of the System11s to use direct activation for the special solenoids. There's two switches on the special solenoids on Space Station, a 5v scoring switch, and a high voltage activation switch that's wired directly to the transistor. The idea was that the CPU was too slow to notice the switch closing and fire the solenoid on things like pop bumpers and slingshots. The downside is that if the switch gets held closed, the transistor stays on. All 6 are controlled by the same fuse, so the fuse is sized so multiple coils can activate without popping the fuse. So the switch gets stuck on, and pop, crackle, burn...

They really should have been individually fused, and various people now make board that can be inserted in the circuit and provide just that: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/special-solenoid-saver-board-for-wms-3-7

Later in the 11b family, they moved away from these direct activation switches altogether and only used the MPU control of special solenoids but there was some back and forth in the middle of the family. Check the last column on this table of 11b games to see which do and do not make use of the direct activation switches: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#System_11B

System11c games don't use the direct activation switches at all for the special solenoids... which makes them less special and much more like the controlled solenoids really.

#3354 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

There's lots of ways to make a pinball machine catch fire.
System11b were the last of the System11s to use direct activation for the special solenoids. There's two switches on the special solenoids on Space Station, a 5v scoring switch, and a high voltage activation switch that's wired directly to the transistor. The idea was that the CPU was too slow to notice the switch closing and fire the solenoid on things like pop bumpers and slingshots. The downside is that if the switch gets held closed, the transistor stays on. All 6 are controlled by the same fuse, so the fuse is sized so multiple coils can activate without popping the fuse. So the switch gets stuck on, and pop, crackle, burn...
They really should have been individually fused, and various people now make board that can be inserted in the circuit and provide just that: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/special-solenoid-saver-board-for-wms-3-7
Later in the 11b family, they moved away from these direct activation switches altogether and only used the MPU control of special solenoids but there was some back and forth in the middle of the family. Check the last column on this table of 11b games to see which do and do not make use of the direct activation switches: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#System_11B
System11c games don't use the direct activation switches at all for the special solenoids... which makes them less special and much more like the controlled solenoids really.

Excellent explanation!
Thank you.
Of course, now I may be spending more on a board to prevent forest fires!

#3355 2 years ago

Any word on when Planetary Pinball will have the new upper left ramp back in stock?

space station ramp (resized).jpgspace station ramp (resized).jpg
#3356 2 years ago
Quoted from daly124:

Any word on when Planetary Pinball will have the new upper left ramp back in stock?
[quoted image]

Great question! I thought Freeplay40 had done this one, too, in addition to the clear blue ramp (which I plan to order once the Comet center ramp is done, so I can get everything at once!), but it's not listed on his "completed" post. @freeplay40, is this playfield on your radar for a reproduction?

#3357 2 years ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Great question! I thought Freeplay40 had done this one, too, in addition to the clear blue ramp (which I plan to order once the Comet center ramp is done, so I can get everything at once!), but it's not listed on his "completed" post. Freeplay40, is this playfield on your radar for a reproduction?

This playfield can’t be done on his machines because of the complexity of the lane guides. Someone did make a new mold and they are for sale through Planetary, but sounds like they’re out of stock.

Freeplay40 does make the SS ramp though and they are great!

#3358 2 years ago

The upper playfield on Space Station is an injection molded piece. pin-pimp here on Pinside is the guy that got those made for Planetary Pinball. I asked him about these about a month ago and he replied that more will be made. Said the injection molding company was just back logged.

#3359 2 years ago

Took a closer look at my cpu tonight. Guess I'll try to order some transistors and see what happens.

FYI, the game was booting and playing as bought, just missing GI from what I could tell.

Any recommendations gladly accepted.

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#3360 2 years ago

I have a problem with the drop target to the right ramp: sometimes the ball, coming slowly from the left of the drop target and slightly above it, manages to move behind the drop target, actually above it. Basically, between the ramp and the drop target there is enough space for a ball to pass through. But on the top
right side of the drop target there is not enough space (from the ramp) for the ball to keep moving to the right and get "free", so it gets stucked there. Little nudges do not help. So I have to quit the game and remove the glass.

What do you suggest in order to fix this problem?

#3361 2 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

I have a problem with the drop target to the right ramp: sometimes the ball, coming slowly from the left of the drop target and slightly above it, manages to move behind the drop target, actually above it. Basically, between the ramp and the drop target there is enough space for a ball to pass through. But on the top
right side of the drop target there is not enough space (from the ramp) for the ball to keep moving to the right and get "free", so it gets stucked there. Little nudges do not help. So I have to quit the game and remove the glass.
What do you suggest in order to fix this problem?

This is common, and you can try to adjust the target further left, but that never worked for me. If you wait about 20 seconds or so (on mine) the ball search will start and manages to dislodge it.

#3362 2 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

I have a problem with the drop target to the right ramp: sometimes the ball, coming slowly from the left of the drop target and slightly above it, manages to move behind the drop target, actually above it. Basically, between the ramp and the drop target there is enough space for a ball to pass through. But on the top
right side of the drop target there is not enough space (from the ramp) for the ball to keep moving to the right and get "free", so it gets stucked there. Little nudges do not help. So I have to quit the game and remove the glass.
What do you suggest in order to fix this problem?

further back in this thread there are several suggestions, I removed the target and gently ground down the back so the ball flows freely. Problem solved .

#3363 2 years ago

You can also try shifting the ramp entrance a little bit too the right. Also make sure the post rubber there isn't too thick - for example if it were replaced with a "bell" post, that would cause problems.

As others have said there are a few tweaks and adjustments that may be necessary, but yes it's very common for the ball to sneak back there and ideally it should be able to roll out.

#3364 2 years ago

Picked up a project Space Station last week.
It looks bad, but fired right up. Should be fun to repair.

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#3365 2 years ago

Ordering some capacitors and resistors today for my cpu.

Can I substitute 560 ohms for the spec 580 ohm resistor?

It's #45 on the CPU parts list page from the manual: 580 ohms , 5% , 1/4w , C.F.

Everything is the same except the 580 would be 560.

#3366 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Ordering some capacitors and resistors today for my cpu.
Can I substitute 560 ohms for the spec 580 ohm resistor?
It's #45 on the CPU parts list page from the manual: 580 ohms , 5% , 1/4w , C.F.
Everything is the same except the 580 would be 560.

I don’t see the problem, the 5% is for +or-5%. You have a 23 ohm grace

#3367 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Can I substitute 560 ohms for the spec 580 ohm resistor?

It is a misprint. It is supposed to be a 560 ohm resistor.

#3368 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Here I am, the new guy that just picked up a Space Station. I've got some missing GI which I'm told is going to be a J16 connector or something.
I just removed the 2006 batteries...
I think I got lucky.
Also, take a look at this toastyness![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Hard lesson...
Note: best practice, on this game, is to fuse each pop bumper separately.
------ replace each of the pop bumpers with a 2amp slow blow fuses.

#3369 2 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

Picked up a project Space Station last week.
It looks bad, but fired right up. Should be fun to repair.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Aah! you have an Eros One. Fun game.

#3370 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Hard lesson...
Note: best practice, on this game, is to fuse each pop bumper separately.
------ replace each of the pop bumpers with a 2amp slow blow fuses.

My MPU board emitted smoke and flames before I did this important mod. So yeah, do it and save yourself a lot of money and effort later.

#3371 2 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

Picked up a project Space Station last week.
It looks bad, but fired right up. Should be fun to repair.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

What’s the plan with the cabinet?

#3372 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Aah! you have an Eros One. Fun game

I have to figure out how to get it booting. All the mechs are fine, but I'm not even sure where to start with debugging at this point.

#3373 2 years ago
Quoted from ToucanF16:

What’s the plan with the cabinet?

The dude gave me a set of decals, so I'll be sanding and applying those.

What are my options for a translite? Is the one floating on ebay any good?

#3374 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Hard lesson...
Note: best practice, on this game, is to fuse each pop bumper separately.
------ replace each of the pop bumpers with a 2amp slow blow fuses.

Would you be so kind as to post a pic where you mounted the fuse holder and which wire you cut to insert it? Thanks mate

#3375 2 years ago
Quoted from ThatOneDude:

What are my options for a translite? Is the one floating on ebay any good?

Looks like the seller is Classic Arcades. His quality is very inconsistent, so hopefulluy someone who bought it will chime in.
PPS sold some a while back, but I think those were a warehouse find.

#3376 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Looks like the seller is Classic Arcades. His quality is very inconsistent, so hopefulluy someone who bought it will chime in.
PPS sold some a while back, but I think those were a warehouse find.

It’s very much garbage-in, garbage out with Jeff. I sent him a vectorized scan of my SS upper ramp decals and his repros came out perfect. But later I bought the insert decals and they were all too small. When I complained about it, his response was pretty much a shrug. He would have refunded my money, but he had no interest in fixing the problems.

#3377 2 years ago
Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

Would you be so kind as to post a pic where you mounted the fuse holder and which wire you cut to insert it? Thanks mate

I mounted the fuses under the playfield by the pop bumpers.
Like the magnet fuses on a Data East game....
I attached the main red/white wire to one side of the fuses [ like a Gottlieb Game ]
Then attached the lose red/white wires from each pop bumper on the other side
of each fuse.
Finally, I put in three 2Amp slow-blow fuses to each fuse holder.
Note: I do not have the game... if it is still out there, or scrapped...
------ The mode was done to keep the game from blowing the 2½ Amp slow-blow fuse.
------ The game has a flaw of having the right kickout attached to the red/white voltage wire.
------ Which is attached to the three pop bumpers... bad design....
------ The mod worked... the game was on location etc.. One day at collection, one of
------ the fuses popped. The game still worked, a ball was not stuck in the right kickout.
------ I considered the mod a success.

#3378 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I mounted the fuses under the playfield by the pop bumpers.
Like the magnet fuses on a Data East game....
I attached the main red/white wire to one side of the fuses [ like a Gottlieb Game ]
Then attached the lose red/white wires from each pop bumper on the other side
of each fuse.
Finally, I put in three 2Amp slow-blow fuses to each fuse holder.
Note: I do not have the game... if it is still out there, or scrapped...
------ The mode was done to keep the game from blowing the 2½ Amp slow-blow fuse.
------ The game has a flaw of having the right kickout attached to the red/white voltage wire.
------ Which is attached to the three pop bumpers... bad design....
------ The mod worked... the game was on location etc.. One day at collection, one of
------ the fuses popped. The game still worked a ball was not stuck in the right kickout.
------ I considered the mod a success.

Awesome thanks mate I’ll do that on mine

#3379 2 years ago

Does anyone know where I can get apron decals? Better yet, will someone sell me their perfect apron?

#3380 2 years ago

Spent some time neutralizing my MPU tonight. I have a battery holder on the way, hopefully by Saturday.

Does Space Station need a diode, or is there already one on the board?

Thanks in advance.

#3381 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Does Space Station need a diode, or is there already one on the board?

Its on the board already.

#3382 2 years ago

This is my Q73.
Looks like the bottom leg goes left.
Middle leg goes right.
Top leg gets cut after solder.

Anything wrong you can see before I start the operation?

20210613_133020 (resized).jpg20210613_133020 (resized).jpg
#3383 2 years ago

So good news, bad news.

I didn't repair the board because I found a burnt fuse I apparently missed first round. Boom, GI activated!

On the down side, no green mode light action.

I looked at the relays quickly, but they look OK, I think?

Is the Green Mode connected to that Q73 that's burnt? I don't mind going in but was hoping I didn't have to.

20210615_174751 (resized).jpg20210615_174751 (resized).jpg20210615_174756 (resized).jpg20210615_174756 (resized).jpg
#3384 2 years ago

Those relay boards are horrendous for cracking solder joints. Pull it off, check that the coil in the relay shows an appropriate resistance (~660 ohm from memory), reflow all the header and relay connections and try again.

Here's a couple of examples on one board:

20170311_083902.jpg20170311_083902.jpg

#3385 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Those relay boards are horrendous for cracking solder joints. Pull it off, check that the coil in the relay shows an appropriate resistance (~660 ohm from memory), reflow all the header and relay connections and try again.
Here's a couple of examples on one board:
[quoted image]

Thank you.

#3386 2 years ago

Hey Space Station friends, back with another question, hopefully not a difficult fix, but I'm scratching my head.

Two of the switches for the STA- 3-bank, the T and A, are not working. This isn't a full column issue in the switch matrix, everything else is fine. I took them off, cleaned them with alcohol and ran a card thru the switches, but they're still not connecting. I (think) I tested the diodes, they're both getting the same reading as the diode on the switch that still works. The wires aren't stripped or anything, it looks totally fine...

What else can I test? Where else could there be a failure here?

#3387 2 years ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Hey Space Station friends, back with another question, hopefully not a difficult fix, but I'm scratching my head.
Two of the switches for the STA- 3-bank, the T and A, are not working. This isn't a full column issue in the switch matrix, everything else is fine. I took them off, cleaned them with alcohol and ran a card thru the switches, but they're still not connecting. I (think) I tested the diodes, they're both getting the same reading as the diode on the switch that still works. The wires aren't stripped or anything, it looks totally fine...
What else can I test? Where else could there be a failure here?

I'd start from the connector under the playfield.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

I'd disconnect it, short each pin to the common on the playfield side of the connector. and see if they register correctly. Then you know if you're looking at the wiring between the connector and the MPU, or the connector and the targets.

#3388 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

I'd start from the connector under the playfield.
[quoted image]
I'd disconnect it, short each pin to the common on the playfield side of the connector. and see if they register correctly. Then you know if you're looking at the wiring between the connector and the MPU, or the connector and the targets.

Thanks for this! It turned out to be the wiring between the targets—it wasn't clear when I first popped the playfield up, but sure enough, tugging around on stuff, the daisy-chained wire from the S target to the T was disconnected. Re-soldered, and we're back in business!

Thank you!

#3389 2 years ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Thanks for this! It turned out to be the wiring between the targets—it wasn't clear when I first popped the playfield up, but sure enough, tugging around on stuff, the daisy-chained wire from the S target to the T was disconnected. Re-soldered, and we're back in business!
Thank you!

Great result. Glad to help.

#3390 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Those relay boards are horrendous for cracking solder joints. Pull it off, check that the coil in the relay shows an appropriate resistance (~660 ohm from memory), reflow all the header and relay connections and try again.
Here's a couple of examples on one board:
[quoted image]

I pulled the relay.
Here it is.

I also tested for continuity. I found something strange. At least I think it is. BOTH of these pins flow to this single joint. One reads 600, the other 000.

20210623_164753 (resized).jpg20210623_164753 (resized).jpg
#3391 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

I pulled the relay.
Here it is.
I also tested for continuity. I found something strange. At least I think it is. BOTH of these pins flow to this single joint. One reads 600, the other 000.
[quoted image]

Those two pins are the coil in the relay. It's about 600ohm, so yes, you should get about 600ohm across those pins (and see similar results on the pin just right ofthe yellow arrows.

I'd still reflow all 8 pins of the relay, and all the header pins and see if that fixes the issue. If it doesn't you'll need to dig further.

#3392 2 years ago

Tested my Q transistors today.
Planning on reflowing solder on GI relays this afternoon.

Anyone know off hand if the J3 connector on the CPU controls green mode?

#3393 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Tested my Q transistors today.
Planning on reflowing solder on GI relays this afternoon.
Anyone know off hand if the J3 connector on the CPU controls green mode?

The Green Mode is controlled via Q9.
Color of the wire is brown-red on J3-10

Greetings Jürgen

#3394 2 years ago
Quoted from RedFlash:

The Green Mode is controlled via Q9.
Color of the wire is brown-red on J3-10
Greetings Jürgen

Thank you. I had seen that, and checked it with a DMM (ground braid and tip). Read 1, so all good.

My J3 is looking toasty, so just checking as I bought new connectors, but if it ain't broke, , ,

Thanks again. I'll try reflowing today.

#3395 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Thank you. I had seen that, and checked it with a DMM (ground braid and tip). Read 1, so all good.
My J3 is looking toasty, so just checking as I bought new connectors, but if it ain't broke, , ,
Thanks again. I'll try reflowing today.

Reflowing is a good idea.
My GI relais board had some cracks on the solder points too.
This is a real quick fix and can save you a lot of time for the search of other possible faults.

#3396 2 years ago

Had some luck today, green popped on dimly for a few seconds after I reflowed.

I only reflowed the connector pins, like an idiot. Guess I'll go at it again tomorrow.

Reading comprehension, not my strong suit.

#3397 2 years ago

Wife just finished this Metal Earth sculpture. Her favorite pin out of my collection is Space Station and we're going to have to find a spot to put this...maybe either on the left side above the plastic or just make it a topper?

PXL_20210628_032141624 (resized).jpgPXL_20210628_032141624 (resized).jpg
#3398 2 years ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Had some luck today, green popped on dimly for a few seconds after I reflowed.
I only reflowed the connector pins, like an idiot. Guess I'll go at it again tomorrow.
Reading comprehension, not my strong suit.

Yeah that test can show the tip is okay, but still have a bunch of dry joints.

#3399 2 years ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

Wife just finished this Metal Earth sculpture. Her favorite pin out of my collection is Space Station and we're going to have to find a spot to put this...maybe either on the left side above the plastic or just make it a topper?
[quoted image]

I'd be worried a stray ball mashes it and makes a big mess. I'd put it on top.

#3400 2 years ago

Condition Green back online. I guess I just needed to reflow everything.

Thanks for the help!

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