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(Topic ID: 58120)

Space Station Club... Members Only!


By mof

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 3,143 posts
  • 213 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 19 hours ago by BlitzM4
  • Topic is favorited by 97 Pinsiders

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There are 3143 posts in this topic. You are on page 63 of 63.
#3101 47 days ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Post a pic of the board in that area. I think you would know if the resistor took to much juice.
I don’t think the resistor’s are bad. But I could be wrong. Only been working on pinball for a few years. So I am still a noob!!
grumpy what is your opinion?

Most of the time the resistors are just dirty, clean with alcohol first. If the resistors look darker in color then the the surrounding ones, they have been overheated from over current and need to be replaced.

Quoted from reconsider59:

Strange thing, I'm wondering if someone can help me figure this out:
— had the right jet bumper lock on a while back; it blew a fuse, burned up the solenoid, blew the tip122, it was a mess.
— replaced the sol, adjusted the leaf switch for the jet, replaced the tip122 at Q73 with a tip102, replaced the fuse at F3; I THOUGHT all was good...
— but now, all of the jets, and the right dock kicker, don't work. if I put in a fresh fuse at F3, it'll lock on the right jet again.
So, it seems that whatever locked on the sol at first still hasn't been fixed. And I'm not sure why these OTHER things aren't working now, either.
What am I missing?
Thanks in advance!

Anytime you replace a driver transistor because it was SHORTED you must replace the predriver and the coil diode, also test the coil for the correct resistance at the same time. If the driver has gone OPEN which is rare, then you just replace the driver.

Now that you just replaced the driver, you need to replace it again as it was stressed for locking on the coil again. The coil diode that needs to be replaced is on the aux power supply.

#3102 45 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Most of the time the resistors are just dirty, clean with alcohol first. If the resistors look darker in color then the the surrounding ones, they have been overheated from over current and need to be replaced.

Anytime you replace a driver transistor because it was SHORTED you must replace the predriver and the coil diode, also test the coil for the correct resistance at the same time. If the driver has gone OPEN which is rare, then you just replace the driver.
Now that you just replaced the driver, you need to replace it again as it was stressed for locking on the coil again. The coil diode that needs to be replaced is on the aux power supply.

Thanks for this, y’all!

I’m still feeling confused about what to do next; grumpy , looking at the schematic, I’m not clear which diode could be out that I’d want to replace? D17, which is in line with the Special sols?

I don’t want to plug it in and risk blowing these fixed transistors, right? To help myself diagnose what next to do?

Here’s a photo of the fixed area of the MPU, and the Aux Power Driver, in case they help...really appreciate your help, y’all.

3C9727DD-15A6-466D-838B-C1CB1886E93D (resized).jpegA9B43363-A6A2-45A8-913D-48E8B5A76FA6 (resized).jpeg
#3103 45 days ago

You could install an in line fuse with a 1.5 amp fuse. I use the solenoid saver board on all of my machines that have special solenoids

https://nvram.weebly.com/repair--conversion-kits.html

#3104 45 days ago

I think you are working on special solenoid #3.

ss (resized).png
#3105 44 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I think you are working on special solenoid #3.
[quoted image]

...thanks. Man I feel silly; I completely missed that it's labeled "SPL 3." I feel like I somehow get temporary blind-spots while trying to read schematics...

Appreciate the help, y'all. A replacement diode for D19 should be here today. Will report back.

#3106 43 days ago

New member Love this game... It's a slow burn game but the music, the light show, having to relight the locks... In many ways this was ahead of it's time. I saw that they aren't selling the plastic space station mod, anyone know where you can get one? I might want to 3D print a bigger one too, it seems like something really cool could be there.

IMG_20200908_175025 (resized).jpg
#3108 43 days ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

New member Love this game... It's a slow burn game but the music, the light show, having to relight the locks... In many ways this was ahead of it's time. I saw that they aren't selling the plastic space station mod, anyone know where you can get one? I might want to 3D print a bigger one too, it seems like something really cool could be there.
[quoted image]

truemagoo102, I have been vacuum forming replacements. I'll send you a PM if you are interested.

Brian Pulliam

#3109 43 days ago

Definitely, send me pictures, I'm interested. Btw, just got the high score music, never heard it before. I'm blown away. Brian Schmidt absolutely crushed this soundtrack. Another question guys, my backbox speakers are aftermarket and slightly blown, can anyone recommend replacements? I'm going to have to get a sub too, the cabinet speaker isn't even functional!

#3110 43 days ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

Definitely, send me pictures, I'm interested. Btw, just got the high score music, never heard it before. I'm blown away. Brian Schmidt absolutely crushed this soundtrack. Another question guys, my backbox speakers are aftermarket and slightly blown, can anyone recommend replacements? I'm going to have to get a sub too, the cabinet speaker isn't even functional!

Best sound and light show in ages. I have my highscores set to reset every couple of hundred games just so I get to hear it more often. Long term high scores in https://www.iscored.info/?mode=public&user=Ajfclark

That reminds me I need to update my STTNG score...

12
#3111 39 days ago

I just finished SPACE STATION stencils and added them to my website. I know people have been wanting these for a while. Got really good cabinet scans last week. Enjoy!

http://pinballpimpstencils.com/space-station/

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#3112 37 days ago
Quoted from PinballPimp:

I just finished SPACE STATION stencils and added them to my website. I know people have been wanting these for a while. Got really good cabinet scans last week. Enjoy!
http://pinballpimpstencils.com/space-station/
[quoted image]

Way to go man!!!

I don’t need them,but I had gotten one of the last in existence a while back and felt terrible every time I saw some one needing them, only to purchase lousy decals from somewhere... not anymore, great job Pinball-Pimp!

#3113 32 days ago

Just went all out and upgraded the backbox speakers and the sub (for under 50 bucks) using the System 11 speakers upgrade guide on the forums here... It did not take long and it sounds SO much better. If anyone needs help installing it let me know, the guide was a little tricky to sort out.

Also 2SMD LEDs are AMAZING. I was worried that cool whites in the GI would wash all the art out but it does not at all. I definitely recommend it.

IMG_20200912_210940 (resized).jpgIMG_20200912_210945 (resized).jpg
#3114 30 days ago

Hey Everyone,

I have been loving Space Station since picking it up last week, but I seem to be having a similar issue to some others. The right jet bumper is locked on and was blowing the fuse.

I decided before posting I would read some threads and see if I could find the solution. First I replaced Q73 with a new TIP122, nope....So I then replaced Q72, and Q73 again, nope.....So today I replaced the Aux board diode D19, Q72, and Q73 again, the problem still persists. I have fully disconnected the switch to make sure that was not the problem as well......Help Pinside, you are my only hope!

#3115 30 days ago
Quoted from Ghengisgord:

Hey Everyone,
I have been loving Space Station since picking it up last week, but I seem to be having a similar issue to some others. The right jet bumper is locked on and was blowing the fuse.
I decided before posting I would read some threads and see if I could find the solution. First I replaced Q73 with a new TIP122, nope....So I then replaced Q72, and Q73 again, nope.....So today I replaced the Aux board diode D19, Q72, and Q73 again, the problem still persists. I have fully disconnected the switch to make sure that was not the problem as well......Help Pinside, you are my only hope!

I would look at U45, the 7402 chip just above the relay.

Screenshot_20200921-231554 (resized).png
#3116 30 days ago
Quoted from La4s:

I would look at U45, the 7402 chip just above the relay.[quoted image]

Just replaced it, (Also Q72 and Q73 again to be safe) still having the pop bumper lock..... I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

#3117 29 days ago
Quoted from Ghengisgord:

Just replaced it, (Also Q72 and Q73 again to be safe) still having the pop bumper lock..... I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

Sorry if this is a "duh, I already checked that" suggestion, but did you make sure the leaf switch that triggers the jet bumper isn't making contact somehow? Is it only the right jet?

#3118 29 days ago

Going from the diagram above.

I think you said this but disconnect 1j18 to make sure its not a playfield problem. That is the trigger switch below the pop bumper.

Also disconnect 1J19 which is the ground path to the solenoids. Replace the fuse and it should not blow. If it does its something else not related to the solenoid firing.

If you socketed U45 when you replaced it. Test pins 2 3 and 1 with the chip in and the chip out. For comparison check the values of other gates on the 7402 Like inputs 8 and 9 and output 10 What do you get?

Since it is a 7402 pin 2 and 3 both need to be pulled low for pin 1 to go high and fire the solenoid. Google 7402 NOR gate to check my work

Without the chip if pin 1 of the socket is high there is a problem downstream from the chip such as R106 or some short to +5 that is putting +5 on the collector of the pre driver Q72. Also check for +5 at the collector of the Q73 for the same reason.

Without the chip if pin 2 is low then either the line to 1J18 is pulled low or the path from the CPU to fire the solenoid during test is pulling pin 2 low.

There is actually an output from another chip (that could be bad) attached to pin 2 so the CPU can test the special solenoid. It goes CPU to PIA to that chip (7408 on system 3-7 not sure on system 11) to 7402 which combined with blanking/game up puts +5 on the collector of the predriver which connects the collector of the driver to +5 which connects the solenoid to ground.

It should not be pin 3 since that is attached to all the other solenoids and they are not locking on right ? But you will know that if you test pin 8

Let us know. Removing the chip eliminates a short and tells you what side of the chip the problem is on.

#3119 29 days ago
Quoted from Ghengisgord:

I am taking crazy pills.

Cut Zr-3 off and retest.

#3120 29 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Cut Zr-3 off and retest.

grumpy You beautiful bastard!! I snipped Zr-3 and it stopped the lock, and I tried to trigger it and there it was it fired. I guess I am replacing it tomorrow!

You guys are the best!

#3121 29 days ago
Quoted from Ghengisgord:

I snipped Zr-3 and it stopped the lock

Replace it with a 1 watt version instead of the 1/2 watt original.

Playball!!

#3122 28 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Replace it with a 1 watt version instead of the 1/2 watt original.
Playball!!

grumpy you're kind of a hero!

Can you explain WHY this was the case, in this instance? I'm still trying to learn how all this stuff works (and I've got a similar issue going with my Space Station at the moment, too...).

#3123 28 days ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Can you explain WHY this was the case, in this instance?

Why I use a heavier wattage replacement or why the zener diode caused the coil to lock on?

Quoted from reconsider59:

grumpy you're kind of a hero!

Now I wont be able to get my big head thru the doorway.

#3124 28 days ago

Grumpy and Dumbass are the tops when it comes to system 11s. The best.

#3125 28 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Why I use a heavier wattage replacement or why the zener diode caused the coil to lock on?

Both, actually! Like...how did you know that was the problem here, what does the zener diode do, and why would the coil fire even AFTER snipping the zener?

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Now I wont be able to get my big head thru the doorway.

Gotta give credit where it's due!

#3126 28 days ago

Proud Dad moment - 14 year old daughter posted GC!

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#3127 28 days ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Like...how did you know that was the problem here

I have seen this problem many times before.

Quoted from reconsider59:

what does the zener diode do

A zener diode is a special diode that can flow current in both directions whereas a standard diode can only flow current in one direction. Each zener diode is designed to flow current when a reverse breakdown voltage is reached, in our case (1n5232b) that would be 6.2 volts. Most of the time zeners are use as part of a voltage regulator circuit, but in our situation it's being used as a spike suppressor. In the pic below you will see the switch input line going to U-45 NOR chip pin 2. The chips on the CPU board are TTL chips and work at a voltage of zero to 5 volts. 0-0.8 volts is a low and 2-5 volts is a high. The resistor SR-20 is tied to 5 volts and the switch line, which will bring the switch line to 5 volts. The switch is tied to the switch line and to ground. So if the switch is open the switch line remains at 5 volts, once the switch closes the ground (zero volts) is brought to pin 2 of U-45. If pin 3 is low also (blanking signal) then the output of U-45 will go high and turn on Q-72. Now if for some reason a high voltage such as 25 volt coil voltage were to touch the switch wire, this high voltage would try to raise the voltage on the switch wire but the zener would send anything over the 6.2 volts thru it to ground. By doing this it would protect the rest of the circuit components from over voltage.

Quoted from reconsider59:

why would the coil fire even AFTER snipping the zener?

Most of the time when a zener diode goes bad it is shorted. If it shorts, it will put a ground (low) signal on the switch line thus making the coil lock on. By snipping one of its leads you will effectively be removing it from the circuit and unlocking the coil. Then the switch circuit will work normally. System 11 CPUs did not even have the zener diodes until Pinbot.

zener (resized).png
#3128 27 days ago

And there you have it! Awesome I learned something new again!!

#3129 27 days ago

dont pin me down for a release date but i did get the original blueprints for the upper play field from PPS. we have already got the part into CAD 3D using the prints and the upper PF from my game. pretty sure Rick has the films for the decals. the plan is to build a new injection mold for it

#3130 27 days ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

dont pin me down for a release date but i did get the original blueprints for the upper play field from PPS. we have already got the part into CAD 3D using the prints and the upper PF from my game. pretty sure Rick has the films for the decals. the plan is to build a new injection mold for it

This is incredible news! So many people want this piece!

#3131 23 days ago

Following. I want one for sure

#3132 23 days ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

dont pin me down for a release date but i did get the original blueprints for the upper play field from PPS. we have already got the part into CAD 3D using the prints and the upper PF from my game. pretty sure Rick has the films for the decals. the plan is to build a new injection mold for it

Great news!

I don’t need one, but I may need a backup.
Please match the clear blue, it looks so great with the yellow LEDs and Freeplay40’s blue ramp!

#3133 23 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I have seen this problem many times before.

A zener diode is a special diode that can flow current in both directions whereas a standard diode can only flow current in one direction. Each zener diode is designed to flow current when a reverse breakdown voltage is reached, in our case (1n5232b) that would be 6.2 volts. Most of the time zeners are use as part of a voltage regulator circuit, but in our situation it's being used as a spike suppressor. In the pic below you will see the switch input line going to U-45 NOR chip pin 2. The chips on the CPU board are TTL chips and work at a voltage of zero to 5 volts. 0-0.8 volts is a low and 2-5 volts is a high. The resistor SR-20 is tied to 5 volts and the switch line, which will bring the switch line to 5 volts. The switch is tied to the switch line and to ground. So if the switch is open the switch line remains at 5 volts, once the switch closes the ground (zero volts) is brought to pin 2 of U-45. If pin 3 is low also (blanking signal) then the output of U-45 will go high and turn on Q-72. Now if for some reason a high voltage such as 25 volt coil voltage were to touch the switch wire, this high voltage would try to raise the voltage on the switch wire but the zener would send anything over the 6.2 volts thru it to ground. By doing this it would protect the rest of the circuit components from over voltage.

Most of the time when a zener diode goes bad it is shorted. If it shorts, it will put a ground (low) signal on the switch line thus making the coil lock on. By snipping one of its leads you will effectively be removing it from the circuit and unlocking the coil. Then the switch circuit will work normally. System 11 CPUs did not even have the zener diodes until Pinbot. [quoted image]

Professor Grumpy, great write up

1 week later
#3134 15 days ago

Big thanks to grumpy — I'm just about to fully-working again!

Couple things I want to clear up, now, 'cause I have new (thankfully, I think much simpler) issues:

- I think because I was unplugging/re-plugging the connectors a lot, there were a couple small issues with connections on the (molex? right? the plastic parts that hold the wires, the female end to the pins on the MPU). I've read before that one should just replace these, but can anyone point me to a good guide on how to do so?

- due to a connection being wonky on those molex connectors, I had thought a transistor blew, so I replaced it while I was doing other work on the board. messing with the wires, I found that the issue was actually a physical connection issue, so it probably WASN'T a problem with that transistor after all. Oops. BUT, totally by happenstance, I happened to brush my hand against that particular transistor...and it was HOT. Very, very hot, when none of the other transistors were. so, a) what's up with that? and b) I should probably replace that, right?

Thanks again, y'all.

1 week later
#3135 8 days ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

dont pin me down for a release date but i did get the original blueprints for the upper play field from PPS. we have already got the part into CAD 3D using the prints and the upper PF from my game. pretty sure Rick has the films for the decals. the plan is to build a new injection mold for it

This is amazing! My upper playfield got chewed and crapped on by 9000 squirrels and a new one will finally bring my project machine out of storage.

Please let us know if there is a good way to follow progress on this. I'm afraid I miss it.

#3136 7 days ago

I think I misunderstood the idea of locking balls in the space station...

pasted_image (resized).png

Ballsearch didn't find this one..

#3137 5 days ago

Here’s a pic of the upper pf drawn into 3D from the original blueprints. Next step is I submit a mold quote to PPS. I have a feeling it’s going to be a maybe. Cost of tooling vs how many parts can be sold is boarderline. But feeling positive and hope we can move forward.

F82F6CB0-DC3A-4C5D-BA87-1428EC5F90AE (resized).jpeg
#3138 3 days ago

Sound Troubleshooting

Over the weekend the voice sounds on my Space Station stopped working. I'm still getting some sounds but none of the "Bay doors are open" , "Liberty Docked" "Redock Now" etc are working. Anyone know if there is a common trouble spot to start looking for the problem?

#3139 1 day ago

so we have the green light from PPS to poceed on new tooling for the upper space station PF!

#3140 1 day ago
Quoted from pin-pimp:

so we have the green light from PPS to poceed on new tooling for the upper space station PF!

Awesome news, Kevin!!!

#3141 1 day ago
Quoted from BlitzM4:

Sound Troubleshooting
Over the weekend the voice sounds on my Space Station stopped working. I'm still getting some sounds but none of the "Bay doors are open" , "Liberty Docked" "Redock Now" etc are working. Anyone know if there is a common trouble spot to start looking for the problem?

Looked over the board and nothing is obviously burnt up. Couldn't find any loose connections anywhere.

All the music in the music test works fine.

On the sound test 01, 02, 05, and 07 don't have any sound. 00, 03, 04, and 06 sounds are working.

During the "General System-11B Sound Test" (pressing the switch on the edge of the board) I get a repeating single buzz sound which according to the manual means U23 RAM chip malfunction.

I'm searching for info on this chip now but if anyone knows if I'm on the right track let me know. Ill keep posting updates in case this helps anyone else if the future.

#3142 1 day ago

Have you tried reseating the ribbon cables?

#3143 19 hours ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Have you tried reseating the ribbon cables?

Tried that, still not working. I'm out of ideas beyond replacing the indicated chip, not sure if I want to tackle that myself or not yet.

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