(Topic ID: 58120)

Space Station Club... Members Only!


By mof

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 9 days ago by GRUMPY
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Space Station LED.pdf (PDF preview)
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#2801 10 months ago
Quoted from galaga50:

Dumb question but is this ok instead of the 12v version?

Coil in the relay is 24v in both instances, you should be looking for part number 11998 though. 11902 is the motor relay.

#2802 10 months ago
Quoted from galaga50:

Dumb question but is this ok instead of the 12v version?

They were 24 volts not 12.

#2803 10 months ago

A good lesson! Need to get better at using the DMM, but this is a great start, thanks, @platypus .

I think my next step, which has been suggested and I just blindly ignored, is to make sure that the connections are working properly. I didn't quite understand the advice I was getting ("reflow header pins" and "traces" as @mymalibu suggested), so I didn't do them...but after all this reading and back-and-forth, I think I'm understanding more clearly.

Going to re-do the connector plugs and pins next, and see what happens. Given that this most recent issue started to occur once I futzed with the connectors, I'm starting to think poor connections and shorts at those junctures may be the problem.

That said, I'm trying to be more methodical from here on out, rather than blindly replacing stuff in the hopes that it was what was wrong. Thanks everyone for your help!!!

Quoted from Platypus:

Many people suggest not just blindly replacing components without first determining they are bad. It is easy testing a tip122 with a DMM. http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/#howdmm a googly search will bring up other explainations

#2804 10 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

A good lesson! Need to get better at using the DMM, but this is a great start, thanks, @platypus .
I think my next step, which has been suggested and I just blindly ignored, is to make sure that the connections are working properly. I didn't quite understand the advice I was getting ("reflow header pins" and "traces" as @mymalibu suggested), so I didn't do them...but after all this reading and back-and-forth, I think I'm understanding more clearly.
Going to re-do the connector plugs and pins next, and see what happens. Given that this most recent issue started to occur once I futzed with the connectors, I'm starting to think poor connections and shorts at those junctures may be the problem.
That said, I'm trying to be more methodical from here on out, rather than blindly replacing stuff in the hopes that it was what was wrong. Thanks everyone for your help!!!

My 1980 Skateball needed most all of the headers and connectors replaced, it was a hacked and burned up mess.

I have replaced about half of the connectors on my Space Station some were obviously discolored (burned). When they are getting that hot the headers (pins) heat up and may flow the solder out of the connection to the circuit board. When we say reflow the headers we mean adding solder to that connection on the back side of the board. The online tech references discuss this and have some pics of dry joints, once you see one you will wonder how it even still worked. do read up on doing it correctly. If you have weak or compromised header joints, just removing and reattaching a connector can break it.

And do learn how to use a DMM. It saves alot of guess work

#2805 9 months ago

Hello

Well, hopefully I will able to join the Space Station club. My friend's dad had a Space Station pinball tucked away in storage at their home for years. He wanted to 'eventually' get round to have it repaired/serviced for play, but never got to it.

So recently I casually asked if his dad would sell it to me, as they are trying to declutter their house, and to my joy, he offered it for free to me!
It was 'modified' in Germany to work with 220V/50Hz and still has the DM cents on the coin door.

So I took the machine in to a guy that restores/service pinball machines. The underside of the playfield looks good. We had 'drill' the lock for the display box since the keys for it was long gone. Inspecting the inside seems to be good, the battery did leak out some acid, but seems to only have fell on the backside of the display pcb.

The playfield itself also looks good, just need a good clean with new rubber etc.

Hopefully their is nothing else (major parts) that needs replacing.

IMG_20190511_112632 (resized).jpgIMG_20190603_105912 (resized).jpg
#2806 9 months ago

looking for an upper playfield I recall someone was working on a new design? or does any one have an extra

#2807 9 months ago
Quoted from Okty:

Hello
Well, hopefully I will able to join the Space Station club. My friend's dad had a Space Station pinball tucked away in storage at their home for years. He wanted to 'eventually' get round to have it repaired/serviced for play, but never got to it.
So recently I casually asked if his dad would sell it to me, as they are trying to declutter their house, and to my joy, he offered it for free to me!
It was 'modified' in Germany to work with 220V/50Hz and still has the DM cents on the coin door.
So I took the machine in to a guy that restores/service pinball machines. The underside of the playfield looks good. We had 'drill' the lock for the display box since the keys for it was long gone. Inspecting the inside seems to be good, the battery did leak out some acid, but seems to only have fell on the backside of the display pcb.
The playfield itself also looks good, just need a good clean with new rubber etc.
Hopefully their is nothing else (major parts) that needs replacing.[quoted image][quoted image]

Now that's lucky, his Dad is a good guy. Congrats.

#2808 9 months ago

I've just picked up a Space Station which is a lot of fun to play. There is a wire gate that allows/prevents the ball from being docked in the upper right under the space station. The wire gate appears to be loosely hanging and can only be opened forward (toward the flippers). However, it appears that the gate is not attached or controlled electronically. The problem is that once a ball is docked in the upper right, the gate remains open. If you hit another ball in that area, the machine can't find the ball in play and ends up ejecting the 2 balls. I would have thought that the gate would be controlled to remain up until a ball is docked at which time the gate would drop preventing an additional ball from going into the docking area.

I've attached an image.

I appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks.
Tom

SpaceStationWithIssue (resized).jpg
#2809 9 months ago
Quoted from privydigger:

I've just picked up a Space Station which is a lot of fun to play. There is a wire gate that allows/prevents the ball from being docked in the upper right under the space station. The wire gate appears to be loosely hanging and can only be opened forward (toward the flippers). However, it appears that the gate is not attached or controlled electronically. The problem is that once a ball is docked in the upper right, the gate remains open. If you hit another ball in that area, the machine can't find the ball in play and ends up ejecting the 2 balls. I would have thought that the gate would be controlled to remain up until a ball is docked at which time the gate would drop preventing an additional ball from going into the docking area.
I've attached an image.
I appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks.
Tom[quoted image]

No, that gate should only open for exit. It is not controlled. The ball should not 'enter' that way, only comes out and pushes the gate open as it passes. There's a switch issue in there somewhere as only 1 ball should get ejected if you get another ball in there.

I'm curious if your space station is working correctly? Does it line up and dock both sides consistently? It should send a ball to each side, not both to one side.

#2810 9 months ago

The advise is greatly appreciated. I see what you're saying. The gate should always be down and locking the ball on the right side happens via the right ramp/station. The gate was stuck open and I was thinking that the gate was supposed to be controlled electronically. I just read the instruction sheet and it stated "Ramp to right of playfield, takes ball to either lock, depending on position of Space Station divertor (see below)".

The gate was getting stuck open when locked ball exits.

Thanks again.
Tom

#2811 9 months ago
Quoted from privydigger:

The advise is greatly appreciated. I see what you're saying. The gate should always be down and locking the ball on the right side happens via the right ramp/station. The gate was stuck open and I was thinking that the gate was supposed to be controlled electronically. I just read the instruction sheet and it stated "Ramp to right of playfield, takes ball to either lock, depending on position of Space Station divertor (see below)".
The gate was getting stuck open when locked ball exits.
Thanks again.
Tom

Ah okay, I didn't realize the gate was sticking open.

#2812 9 months ago

Find what it's sticking on and fix it. On mine, the bit at the end of the wireform itself that makes it only open in one direction was catching on the nearby playfield plastic. Trimmed the wireform, now works fine and isn't slowly chewing through the playfield plastic.

Form this:
pasted_image (resized).png

To this:
pasted_image (resized).png

#2813 9 months ago

Hey everyone,

I think I've made a LITTLE progress, though I'm still not sure what to do next. I'm hoping that providing some more information might lead someone to shed some light on my issue.

To re-cap:

- my left re-entry kicker (Sol. 16) remains energized; I've clipped the lead to it to keep it from staying on and burning things
- my space station toy (Sol. 13) remains energized

Things I've learned/realized since this issue came up:

- the "Top Playfield Panel Flashers" (Sol. 15) do not work (bonus points if anyone can explain to me why those are controlled by a solenoid?)
- there is no speech coming from the game; when I do a test, the Music Test all goes fine, but the Sound Test gives me absolutely nothing
- I've learned (I think?) how to test transistors, and it seems that Q10 and Q14 are both broken; this would seem to be the reason the Top Playfield Panel Flashers aren't working, no?
- there's been a "U10PIA Failure" that's popped up a couple times; not always, but sometimes, it'll show when I start the game. Re-starting the game makes it go away. I've read in another Pinside thread (here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/u10-pia-failure-where-to-find-and-replacement-repair-advice) that this might be caused by a +5 Voltage drop, but I tested the voltage, and all seems fine. I plan to replace the Cap8 someday, but in the meantime, this doesn't seem to be the real issue here (what's causing my solenoids to stay on).

Attached is a photo from the schematic that seems to show the area where all my problems converge. I still can't figure out what Sol. 14 is (anyone know?), but all three of the other solenoids noted here are messed up.

What I'm planning to do next:

- I'm going to get new 2N4401 & Tip102 transistors for Q10 and Q14, and replace those

What I need your help with:

- I can't decide if I should go ahead and try to replace U10, or not...does anyone have a good source on how best to test the 6891 IC? I've done some googling, but I'm not finding a tutorial that I feel makes sense...
- any OTHER ideas as to what I should check?

(btw, is it bad practice to cross-post this in a brand new thread, as well, and label it as a general Williams 11B post?)

IMG_4146 (resized).jpg
#2814 9 months ago

Solenoid 14 isn't used, page 2 of the manual PDF
pasted_image (resized).png

The panel flashers aren't flashers in the normal sense. They are on for substantial periods and run at 28v. #1521 bulbs, not 12v #89s.

You could disconnect J12, then check the levels in game of U17 pins 1, 2 and 3 and see if they make sense, and the other various gate pin combos, but the fact that everything attached to U17 is staying on would make me replace U17.

Any chance of a good picture of that part of the MPU?

#2815 9 months ago

Hi ajfclark ,

Thanks for this. I had the same thought about U17, but the fact that the speech also doesn’t work made me think the issue was further back.

Photos of that area of the board attached!

Quoted from ajfclark:

Solenoid 14 isn't used, page 2 of the manual PDF
[quoted image]
The panel flashers aren't flashers in the normal sense. They are on for substantial periods and run at 28v. #1521 bulbs, not 12v #89s.
You could disconnect J12, then check the levels in game of U17 pins 1, 2 and 3 and see if they make sense, and the other various gate pin combos, but the fact that everything attached to U17 is staying on would make me replace U17.
Any chance of a good picture of that part of the MPU?

BEBCEBD4-58AE-45F8-8FEE-A3313E95AD76 (resized).jpegD8A8860E-2A7A-46A5-AE1F-42A3A492DDDB (resized).jpeg
#2816 9 months ago

I am always challenged in using my logic probe. It really helps to get a schematic of the chip when troubleshooting

7408 logic chip (resized).png
#2817 9 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Hi ajfclark ,
Thanks for this. I had the same thought about U17, but the fact that the speech also doesn’t work made me think the issue was further back.
Photos of that area of the board attached!
[quoted image][quoted image]

is that a burn mark on U17?

and no I do not think that it is bad form to post this problem in the tech forums

#2818 9 months ago

Is this resistor pack cracked?

we (resized).jpg
#2819 9 months ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Anyone figured out how to align the space station diverter to line up with the ramps? Mine always stops short by about 1/4"-1/2" for both positions. Not good, because it always blocks the ball from making the ramp shot, since the ball follows the right wall of the ramp. I took everything apart and cleaned both optos and made sure the black plastic disc was aligned on the bottom bracket.
How else can this thing be aligned?
[quoted image]

midcoastsurf
I recently picked up a Space Station and it is very fast, fun and challenging (the right outlane drains frequently). I notice the same alignment issue. I'm going to dig into it as well. There are times that it appears that the ball is supposed to be "left docked" but the station is misaligned and ends up just sending the ball onto the play field. There are other times where the station is not level with the ramp and the ball gets caught between the station and the ramp.

#2820 9 months ago

It does seem a little scratched, but I don't think it's a burn mark? I'm not totally sure. Nothing around it seems affected in such a way.

I've got a new IC to replace it on the way, just in case.

Here's hoping my soldering skills are up snuff...

Quoted from Platypus:

is that a burn mark on U17?
and no I do not think that it is bad form to post this problem in the tech forums

#2821 9 months ago

Seems it's just a stray mark, somehow.

Any way to check this kind of resistor, just in case?

Thanks!

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Is this resistor pack cracked?[quoted image]

#2822 9 months ago

I think I figured out why I don’t have speech - there should be an IC at U19 here, right?

Should I also have something in the next IC holder?

It’s looking more and more like U17 is the culprit of my earlier woes...just wish I knew what would have caused it to fail! Can IC’s just, like, blow up with no reason?

Also: I’m still not clear on how to TEST an IC. I have a logic probe, but does anyone have a good resource that shows exactly how to use it to test whether an IC is any good? Is that even a thing?

Thanks again, everyone!

73DF81D1-2283-48A4-A206-936FD3A3273E (resized).jpeg
#2823 9 months ago

No that's not it ,mine are empty as well and my game works fine.You will find the sound roms on the cpu board ,there are 2 different ones.

20190618_103953 (resized).jpg
#2824 9 months ago
Quoted from privydigger:

midcoastsurf
I recently picked up a Space Station and it is very fast, fun and challenging (the right outlane drains frequently). I notice the same alignment issue. I'm going to dig into it as well. There are times that it appears that the ball is supposed to be "left docked" but the station is misaligned and ends up just sending the ball onto the play field. There are other times where the station is not level with the ramp and the ball gets caught between the station and the ramp.

The station alignment is either optos, motor or in my case, it was a transistor. I wish I would have known that before buying a new motor haha. I think it was Q...67??? Check around there on the board and see if you have a transistor out.

The station itself can be adjusted by the top nut if I remember right, but also check and see if your ramp is sitting too high, my wireform worked more smooth after I adjusted it down for example.

#2825 9 months ago

Do not mistake the top field "flashers". There are 2 flashers and 3 "bulbs". Those 3 bulbs look like flashers but aren't!! These are #1251 type bulbs and have a higher resistance as the normal #89 flashers.

The 2 "coils" which are being energized: replace the corresponding TIP102 and leading transistor. If that doesn't fix the issue the leading IC (most probable a 7408) must be replaced but i've never seen that. The TIP102 will be the first suspect.

Testing a PIA is actually done by the program on boot up. Appearantly your CPU cannot communicate with U10 correctly. I would start swapping the PIA as this component is not that expensive. You can also test your pia's with Leon's test rom (search for it). But my best guess is that a trace is bad due to acid damage, judged only on your entry.

Your sound issue is most probably caused by that U10 as that one is controlling your sound output and some of your solenoids.

Hmmmm, typing my reply and reading back through your post made me realize that U10 is bad. Replace it and maybe your issue is fixed but you need to test all traces going to U10. (See schematics)

#2826 9 months ago

you can always check for "missing roms" by checking IPDB and downloading the rom files.

sssssss (resized).JPG
#2827 9 months ago

About the sounds: what happens if you disconnect the flatcable from the soundboard? Do you still hear the same amount of sounds / callouts? From the top of my head: the background music is handled by the external soundboard.

#2828 9 months ago
Quoted from HarrieD:

Do not mistake the top field "flashers". There are 2 flashers and 3 "bulbs". Those 3 bulbs look like flashers but aren't!! These are #1251 type bulbs and have a higher resistance as the normal #89 flashers.
The 2 "coils" which are being energized: replace the corresponding TIP102 and leading transistor. If that doesn't fix the issue the leading IC (most probable a 7408) must be replaced but i've never seen that. The TIP102 will be the first suspect.
Testing a PIA is actually done by the program on boot up. Appearantly your CPU cannot communicate with U10 correctly. I would start swapping the PIA as this component is not that expensive. You can also test your pia's with Leon's test rom (search for it). But my best guess is that a trace is bad due to acid damage, judged only on your entry.
Your sound issue is most probably caused by that U10 as that one is controlling your sound output and some of your solenoids.
Hmmmm, typing my reply and reading back through your post made me realize that U10 is bad. Replace it and maybe your issue is fixed but you need to test all traces going to U10. (See schematics)

Thanks for this!

So an update: I replaced Q10 and Q14, as well as U17—and sure enough, the issues that I'd had with the left outhole kicker, and space station, solenoids locking on is gone (woo!)

However, I'm still getting the random "U10 PIA error" upon startup; a reboot will make it go away. I also still don't get speech.

The game plays fine, for the most part (sluggish pop bumpers, a couple switches need to be cleaned/adjusted). When trying to search out the issue, I came across this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/u10-pia-failure-where-to-find-and-replacement-repair-advice

Seems to me like this might have caused the issue frying the U17 IC?

HarrieD, which connection are you referring to when you say the "flatcable from the soundboard"? I posted a photo a few posts back where I show that there's nothing in U19, but someone responded to that saying that they also don't have anything there, and theirs works fine.

#2829 9 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Thanks for this!
So an update: I replaced Q10 and Q14, as well as U17—and sure enough, the issues that I'd had with the left outhole kicker, and space station, solenoids locking on is gone (woo!)
However, I'm still getting the random "U10 PIA error" upon startup; a reboot will make it go away. I also still don't get speech.
The game plays fine, for the most part (sluggish pop bumpers, a couple switches need to be cleaned/adjusted). When trying to search out the issue, I came across this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/u10-pia-failure-where-to-find-and-replacement-repair-advice
Seems to me like this might have caused the issue frying the U17 IC?
HarrieD, which connection are you referring to when you say the "flatcable from the soundboard"? I posted a photo a few posts back where I show that there's nothing in U19, but someone responded to that saying that they also don't have anything there, and theirs works fine.

I meant: what happens when you disconnect j4 from the soundboard?

3 months later
#2830 6 months ago

Guess who's back with more questions, y'all...

First up, just wanna say again how grateful I am to everyone who helped me along the way—I never would have gotten this game playing if not for everyone's guidance!

So I've been playing it for a couple months, just about nightly, no issues apart from a sluggish pop bumper (which I'll be following Vid's guide to get up to snuff, soon) and the back panel flashers being so bent it's impossible to see them flash (got a question on that below).

A couple weeks back, C4, VR2, and a diode on the Aux Power board all blew, as did a few fuses. I pulled the board off, and replaced everything that was broken. I put the board back on, and the game worked again. I played it for about 45 minutes, turned it off overnight. Came back to play it the next night, and the start button doesn't work; it just causes some clicking of the solenoids.

In the coil test, I can hear the clicking of the AC relay, so that seems to be working; but all the stuff on the C side are not working. I thought it was a fuse again, but I can't find any that are busted; even replaced one or two that I had spares for, just to see if that'd do anything, but no dice. F1 and F3 both seem to be fine, but I don't have replacement 2amp SB's so I haven't replaced those as of yet.

Anyone have any leads on what to do next to figure out what's going on? Much appreciated!

—AND, my question on the back-panel flashers: how in the world do y'all get at those to change the lamps? I can't seem to get at them! It also seems like mine are twisted/bent in some way...but again, can't really access them to properly align things!

#2831 6 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Guess who's back with more questions, y'all...
First up, just wanna say again how grateful I am to everyone who helped me along the way—I never would have gotten this game playing if not for everyone's guidance!
So I've been playing it for a couple months, just about nightly, no issues apart from a sluggish pop bumper (which I'll be following Vid's guide to get up to snuff, soon) and the back panel flashers being so bent it's impossible to see them flash (got a question on that below).
A couple weeks back, C4, VR2, and a diode on the Aux Power board all blew, as did a few fuses. I pulled the board off, and replaced everything that was broken. I put the board back on, and the game worked again. I played it for about 45 minutes, turned it off overnight. Came back to play it the next night, and the start button doesn't work; it just causes some clicking of the solenoids.
In the coil test, I can hear the clicking of the AC relay, so that seems to be working; but all the stuff on the C side are not working. I thought it was a fuse again, but I can't find any that are busted; even replaced one or two that I had spares for, just to see if that'd do anything, but no dice. F1 and F3 both seem to be fine, but I don't have replacement 2amp SB's so I haven't replaced those as of yet.
Anyone have any leads on what to do next to figure out what's going on? Much appreciated!

The solenoids clicking would make me guess it’s searching for the ball... maybe a switch isn’t registering and it doesn’t know the call is in the trough? Switch test?

#2832 6 months ago
Quoted from radium:

The solenoids clicking would make me guess it’s searching for the ball... maybe a switch isn’t registering and it doesn’t know the call is in the trough? Switch test?

When I go through the coil test, though, when it gets to the one that puts the ball into the shooter lane, it kicks out a ball...

Also, all the C side switches aren't firing in switch test.

#2833 6 months ago

Did you check trough switches? They are under the playfield in the metal trough the balls sit in waiting to be ejected. See 10-13 in the playfield image below. If those switches aren’t activated the game thinks there’s a ball stuck.

596AAA41-F0F2-4E36-AA37-DE28540AEBDD.jpeg76F54CAF-ECEC-4FDD-A829-CE22208B5E6C.jpeg
2 weeks later
#2834 5 months ago

Taking orders shortly on replacement divertor and gear sets. these are hand molded in a silicon mold by a professional of the same resin as the pinbot ramps we make.

Shipping a couple now. Rest available shortly. PM me if you need.

92F48808-98F3-4617-86E5-9406B3B46AFE (resized).jpeg0AD48683-1A8D-406A-A642-F92A5E6D807F (resized).jpegB5FED215-9E03-4E4C-8517-184B0DF45965 (resized).jpegC3B367E4-7635-42E0-B194-8B70F0C10FA0 (resized).jpeg
#2835 5 months ago

Price?

#2836 5 months ago

Yes this, thank you for making these, I don’t need one, by I know there is a need, I may buy a spare.

Quoted from MalikyeMoon:

Taking orders shortly on replacement divertor and gear sets. these are hand molded in a silicon mold by a professional of the same resin as the pinbot ramps we make.
Shipping a couple now. Rest available shortly. PM me if you need.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

2 weeks later
#2837 4 months ago

Need to finalize that but somewhere around $65 a set.

#2838 4 months ago

I need a translate for my SS restoration. Anyone have one they can let go? Send PM.

#2839 4 months ago

I have a used translite in pretty nice shape. slight yellowing. I replaced it in my own with an NoS i had but it works fine if youre missing one altogether. No glass just the trans.

#2840 4 months ago

Anyone looking to sell?

#2841 4 months ago

After posting often in this thread with questions from inane to stupid to unanswerable, I've finally gotten my Space Station to working order. Still a few things to attend to, but it plays pretty well, and looks pretty great, I think.

Wanted to say thanks to everyone who's helped me out—very kind of y'all to put up with this n00b's questions!

IMG_4612 (resized).jpg
#2842 4 months ago

This game is a dark game, I put 4 double spot lights and a purple center drain led strip on mine and it helped.

1 week later
#2843 4 months ago

Back panel flashers.

How in the world do y'all get to them to replace them?

#2844 4 months ago

Put the head down, make sure you use the right bulbs.

#2845 4 months ago

...didn't think of putting the head down, thank you!

Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Put the head down, make sure you use the right bulbs.

#2846 4 months ago

Got one pop bumper that just refuses to work. Doesn't work in test, or manually pushing it, or during gameplay in any way.

TIP122 for it was tested, seems fine.

What next to test?

#2847 4 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

What next to test?

Voltmeter on the both coil lugs.

#2848 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Voltmeter on the both coil lugs.

Thanks, Grumpy. Where do you recommend I put the leads, and what value am I looking for? I know (somewhat) how to use a DMM, but in the context of pinball components, I generally don't know where to put the leads, or what I'm looking for when I do.

#2849 4 months ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Thanks, Grumpy. Where do you recommend I put the leads, and what value am I looking for? I know (somewhat) how to use a DMM, but in the context of pinball components, I generally don't know where to put the leads, or what I'm looking for when I do.

Set DMM to DC volts. Black lead stuck under the ground braid. Red lead to each coil lug. Should read @ 36-39 volts on both lugs.

#2850 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Set DMM to DC volts. Black lead stuck under the ground braid. Red lead to each coil lug. Should read @ 36-39 volts on both lugs.

Thanks for that! Checked it, and indeed, they do register 39V each...

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