Space Station Club... Members Only!

(Topic ID: 58120)

Space Station Club... Members Only!


By mof

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,470 posts
  • 169 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by MustangPaul
  • Topic is favorited by 81 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 653 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMGA0338 (resized).JPG
Space Station 2018 09 16. (resized).jpg
0917182106a_HDR (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
shop-02 (resized).jpg
shop-01 (resized).jpg
0912181615a (resized).jpg
0912181615d (resized).jpg
0912181615 (resized).jpg
0912181615b (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
20180804_214328 (resized).jpg
20180804_214058 (resized).jpg
20180805_121130 (resized).jpg

There are 2471 posts in this topic. You are on page 48 of 50.
#2351 3 months ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Thanks for sharing!
- 2 of my relays are buzzing like crazy - the lower right (below power supply board) and one on the back of the backbox light board (upper right)

The board under the Power Supply is the Auxiliary Power Driver Board:pasted_image (resized).png

It's home to the A/C select relay.

The smaller board on the insert is a GI relay board that controls the flashing of the insert GI:
pasted_image (resized).png

Do they work?

The A/C relay selects between the A and C solenoid banks:
pasted_image (resized).png
Symptoms of malfunction would be one column or the other not working (and the other side firing in its place).

The Insert GI should flash the GI during the coil test.

#2352 3 months ago
Quoted from freakandgeek:

I have been wanting to release this for a long time now...finally you can update your weird white plastic space station with something more realistic looking. Now available.
Check it out:
https://pinbotz.com/products/space-station

Does it come in white? Wondering if can match the backglass a little more.

#2353 3 months ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Do they work?
The A/C relay selects between the A and C solenoid banks:

Symptoms of malfunction would be one column or the other not working (and the other side firing in its place).
The Insert GI should flash the GI during the coil test.

Thanks for the pics and explanation! I took 4 different videos within about 5 minutes of each other and the game actually changes behavior throughout the videos. Displays, solenoids, insert lights, relays buzzing, etc.

Part 1:


Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

I'm gonna pull the MPU board and look at U41 and U42...they got hit with acid damage from leaky batteries.

#2354 3 months ago

To make life easier, use the diagnostic modes. Here's a video I made going through the display test:

Do that, have a look at what the display does. While you're in there, run the coil test and see what each coil does.

I'm going to guess that the battery damage is most of the issue though.

#2355 3 months ago

man... I wish I had waited and gotten the blue display. Everyone was sold out when I was shopping for one.

#2356 3 months ago

Nice video ajfclark! I agree, that blue display looks sharp. Is that a Pinscore display, XPin, or other? I’ll post back once I can dig in a bit.

#2357 3 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

man... I wish I had waited and gotten the blue display. Everyone was sold out when I was shopping for one.

I'm still trying to rebuild the HV display as the missing segment on this one shit me to tears even though it's only visible twice in the whole game.

Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Nice video ajfclark! I agree, that blue display looks sharp. Is that a Pinscore display, XPin, or other? I’ll post back once I can dig in a bit.

It does. It's a Rottendog. I have a few queries around the quality though. That segment went out within 6 months of it being made, but they haven't answered any of my emails asking for support. The screw tighten down onto tracks on one edge because they didn't leave enough clearance and none of the legs on the LEDs are trimmed off:
pasted_image (resized).png

#2358 3 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

... I wish I had waited and gotten the blue display

I went with green and have never looked back!!

#2359 3 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

man... I wish I had waited and gotten the blue display. Everyone was sold out when I was shopping for one.

Get a white and put a blue gel over it.

#2360 3 months ago
Quoted from heni1977:

I went with green and have never looked back!!

Yep - I'm trying to find a Green for sale ...anywhere ?

Pinball Palace here in the UK used to have them but no longer.

Blue does look pretty cool too

#2361 3 months ago

Officially joined the club today!

#2362 3 months ago
Quoted from ozuba:

Officially joined the club today!

Pics or it didn't happen.

#2363 3 months ago
Quoted from ozuba:

Officially joined the club today!

Welcome to the club, hope it's in good shape.

#2364 3 months ago

Here ya’ go...got on the board, not sure if it’s a respectable score or not.

Quoted from ajfclark:

Pics or it didn't happen.

7DD826F8-A0C6-46AD-8CA3-85F3D34457DB (resized).jpeg
#2365 3 months ago
Quoted from ozuba:

Here ya’ go...got on the board, not sure if it’s a respectable score or not.

Getting there. I got 7something at one stage, but I found someone had put an fl-11629 on the left flipper instead of a 11630 so the right ramp was a doddle to hit. Since replacing the flipper coil with the correct one, my best is 6.6m.

Just reminded me that I need to update my score on here... https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/space-station/scores

#2366 89 days ago

Hey guys! First time posting on pinside. I'm having a problem with a stuck (on/engaged) left pop bumper ONLY when I actually start the game. I have recently purchased a space station and I just finished removing the Mylar, and replacing the MPU with a rotten dog one. Had battery damage. Everything worked great once rebuilt and put back together except the left pop bumper did not register very well. I adjusted the switch and over adjusted it the first time. When I turned the game on, I noticed the pop bumper was stuck down as soon as I started a game. I then shut if off within about 10 seconds. I readjusted the switch and it it worked great. A little later it got stuck again. I adjusted it again and it worked but was not very sensitive. Once I tried to adjust again. Power off, with the adjustment tool It is now ALWAYS stuck on ONLY when I hit the start button. However when I first turn on the game It goes through the pop bumper and coil test and it works fine. Even returns back to resting position. Only when I hit start does it stay in the stuck position.

I'm new to working on pinball machines, but based on what I did, maybe i shorted something out when incorrectly adjusting the switch? Based on my research if i damaged something the coil would stay engaged as soon as I power on the machine and that is not the case. Maybe a bad diode? Where? Maybe the capacitor on the leaf switch is shorted? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Jordan

#2367 88 days ago

Welcome to Pinside!

I'm still / always learning myself so someone may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

During attract, the "game logic" that looks for most switch inputs is not running. The game is looking for start, diag, and ball-locating switch inputs, but should ignore all else in "attract mode". When you start a game, the "game mode program" logic runs so now all switches are read, and any stuck switches are fair game to fire all at once.

If you have stuck coils during attract mode, that means the driving circuit(s) for the affected coil is defective "always on" at the board level. But that doesn't seem to be what's happening here, so that's good. It's far easier for a newbie like yourself to look for the visible mechanical issues than to troubleshoot boards.

So yes, you may have a stuck switch telling the game to fire the coil as soon as "game mode" starts. (It's also possible in some cases for the switch-reading circuitry on the boards to go defective, but that's relatively uncommon so let's not worry about that for now).

Do you have the manual for the game? It will be very useful, even if the diagrams don't make any sense at first glance. If you don't have it, go to ipdb.org and look up your game, you can download most manuals from there.

One thing you can try, is unplug connector 1J19 from the MPU board (upper right corner of the board, 2nd connector down from the top). With that connector removed, the coils for the pop bumpers and slingshots will not lock on. You can then put the game into test mode, go into the "switch test", and see which switches are stuck. If the pop bumper switch shows up in test, investigate further.

That left pop bumper is especially tricky because of how tightly everything is crammed nearby. I rebuilt it once and would suffer intermittent meltdowns due to a sporadic, intermittent short in the switch that was almost invisible to the naked eye. I could tell it had been troublesome in the game's previous history due to hints of other repairs. Make sure there is no way that any metal from the switch can EVER touch ANY metal on the pop mechanism... even a "few hairs' width" is too close. Also make sure you have the trigger leaf on the switch on the proper side of the pawl... it's an easy / common thing to mess up.

Space Station is a great game, worth debugging for sure.

#2368 88 days ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

You can then put the game into test mode, go into the "switch test", and see which switches are stuck. If the pop bumper switch shows up in test, investigate further.

This is not the case with Space Station, one of the last machines in the System 11s to use the Special Solenoid Activation Switches. The switch test only tests the scoring switch on the Special Solenoids - pop bumpers and the slingshots. It does not tell you if the activation switches are stuck.

If you look at the pop bumpers you'll see there's two switches. The spoon is the activation switch which has a resistor and capacitor across it as an RC debounce. When the pop fires, the fibre yoke will close a second switch - this is the scoring switch in the switch matrix.

There's a similar arrangement with the slingshots - the switches on the playfield are directly connected to the MPU and there's a second switch activated by the mechanism itself in the switch matrix.

Special solenoids switches connect to the MPU via 1J18 (the first vertical connector at the top right of the MPU board with mostly orange wires):
pasted_image (resized).png

If you disconnect that, go in to test mode or game mode and the pop bumper fires, you have an MPU board issue.

If you disconnect that, go in to test mode or game mode and the pop bumper doesn't fire, you have a short in the activation switch's wiring.

#2369 86 days ago

Hi guys,

Working on a SS for what it seems like forever. The board that came with it had battery corrosion, and I just couldn't get it to work consistently so I found a used board with no corrosion. It boots fine and plays a game fine, all is good except for some lighting issues.

For columns 5, 6, 7 & 8 of the lamp matrix, each light in the 4 columns light at the same time for each respective row. See the colour coded sheet I made. For each colour, if one of those switches is activated all four lights in the row come on. Hopefully this makes sense.

I have never had to track down a lamp matrix issue before, so hoping someone in the group will be able to point me in the right direction to start.

IMG_20180630_0859584(1) (resized).jpg
#2370 86 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Hi guys,
Working on a SS for what it seems like forever. The board that came with it had battery corrosion, and I just couldn't get it to work consistently so I found a used board with no corrosion. It boots fine and plays a game fine, all is good except for some lighting issues.
For columns 5, 6, 7 & 8 of the lamp matrix, each light in the 4 columns light at the same time for each respective row. See the colour coded sheet I made. For each colour, if one of those switches is activated all four lights in the row come on. Hopefully this makes sense.
I have never had to track down a lamp matrix issue before, so hoping someone in the group will be able to point me in the right direction to start.

grumpy might be able to give some more experienced specific guidance, but to me that still sounds like a board issue, given that the commonality between those is U52, except that you haven't coloured the 3 lamps in the insert, 46, 47 and 48. Do they not light? If they don't light like the rest, it probably isn't an MPU issue.

The first step I'd do is to divide the problem in half - is it a board issue, or playfield.

You could test the playfield wiring If you disconnect 1J7 and then check there's no continuity between pins 9,8,7,6 of the connector (not the header in the PCB).

I'd check the MPU side of things by going in to single lamp test mode, selecting one of the problematic lamps and checking the voltages on pins 3 6 8 and 11 of U52. If they are all high, I'd check the remain pins in pairs 1&2, 4&5, 9&10, 12&13. If they are also high, the problem is further upstream (U54?).

#2371 86 days ago

I expect 46, 47 & 48 all fall in the same boat, I wasn't exactly sure what those lights referred to (or I just missed them). Everything else is too consistent for them not to be. I will run some of those tests later today and see what I find. Thanks.

Quoted from ajfclark:

grumpy might be able to give some more experienced specific guidance, but to me that still sounds like a board issue, given that the commonality between those is U52, except that you haven't coloured the 3 lamps in the insert, 46, 47 and 48. Do they not light? If they don't light like the rest, it probably isn't an MPU issue.

#2372 86 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

I expect 46, 47 & 48 all fall in the same boat, I wasn't exactly sure what those lights referred to (or I just missed them). Everything else is too consistent for them not to be. I will run some of those tests later today and see what I find. Thanks.

Depending on your insert they are in different places. The manual says Williams in the bottom right corner of the insert, but on most machines the controlled globes are actually the lights around the station. From memory the test mode uses the correct names for the lamps for the machines when the Williams lights are GI.

See https://www.jeff-z.com/pinball/spacestation/pics/pics.html for more details.

[edit: here's the bit I was thinking of from the above page]

The game manual was written for the "Williams Version" whereas the lamp test software was written for the "Wheel Version". Pertinent entries from the game manual's lamp matrix table are shown below.

37 - Little Shuttle
41 - Not Used
46 - Williams (left)
47 - Williams (middle)
48 - Williams (right)
49 - Big Flame (single lamp)
57 - Big Flame (lamp pair)

And here are the corresponding entries shown by the game during lamp test.

37 - Station Wheel 4
41 - Station Wheel 6
46 - Station Wheel 3
47 - Station Wheel 2
48 - Station Wheel 1
49 - Flame 1 (lamp pair)
57 - Station Wheel 5

There's more to that quote, but the site is eating it so you'll need to go the the source for now.

#2373 86 days ago

There was no continuity on the pins.

So, testing u52: with docking w/l right (34) on lamp test, here is what I get on a logic probe:
1 - all 3 lights lit
2 - high
3 - low/ pulse lit
4 - all 3 lights lit
5 - high
6 - low / pulse lit
7 - low
8 - low/ pulse lit
9 - all 3 lit
10 - high
11 - low / pulse lit
12 - all 3 lit
13 - high
14 - high

Thoughts?

Quoted from ajfclark:

I'd check the MPU side of things by going in to single lamp test mode, selecting one of the problematic lamps and checking the voltages on pins 3 6 8 and 11 of U52. If they are all high, I'd check the remain pins in pairs 1&2, 4&5, 9&10, 12&13. If they are also high, the problem is further upstream (U54?).

#2374 86 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

There was no continuity on the pins.

Quoted from jedi42:

So, testing u52: with docking w/l right (34) on lamp test, here is what I get on a logic probe:

34 comes back to pins 1,2 and 3 of U52. Here's the portion of schematic I'm looking at:
pasted_image (resized).png

Pins 2, 5, 10, and 13 should read the same:
2 - high
5 - high
10 - high
13 - high

So that's good.

7 and 14 are ground and +5
7 - low
14 - high
So that's right.

Pins 3, 6, 8 and 11 are the outputs:
3 - low/ pulse lit
6 - low / pulse lit
8 - low/ pulse lit
11 - low / pulse lit

Pins 1, 4, 9 and 12 are the other inputs:
1 - all 3 lights lit
4 - all 3 lights lit
9 - all 3 lit
12 - all 3 lit

That doesn't look right, I'd expect the inputs to be different, but the outputs make sense from the inputs. I'll go see what my probe tells me under the same conditions.

You could also check against U53 with lamp 2 flashing.

[edit: well, my machine looks similar. I'm stumped. ]

#2375 86 days ago

Oh, are they LEDs?

#2376 86 days ago

Yes they are LEDs. Why would that make a difference?

Quoted from ajfclark:

Oh, are they LEDs?

#2377 86 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Yes they are LEDs. Why would that make a difference?

LEDs turn on at a much lower voltage than incandescent bulbs so you can get ghosting with LEDs that you wouldn't see with normal #44 or #47 bulbs. Sometimes due to bugs in the driver code. They won't be fully on, but they won't be fully off either.

eg. I have LEDs in the backbox because I can't see the ghosting there. When the Shuffle change is lit (9), the wheel light in the insert ghosts (41). I use to have them in the 1 2 3 and a few other spots, but I could see those ghost during play and it drove me insane.

I'm not sure if it's relevant to your problem, but it's possibly worth swapping out a couple of the problematic bulbs for incandescents to rule that out.

#2378 85 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

with docking w/l right (34) on lamp test

Which lamp(s) come on during this test.

#2379 85 days ago

I don't think that is the issue, there is some ghosting, but these are fully on. This didn't happen with my previous board when I had it working.

Quoted from ajfclark:

LEDs turn on at a much lower voltage than incandescent bulbs so you can get ghosting with LEDs that you wouldn't see with normal #44 or #47 bulbs. Sometimes due to bugs in the driver code. They won't be fully on, but they won't be fully off either.

#2380 85 days ago

Special,
dock w/l (in the shuttle)
Relaunch when lit

See pic.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Which lamp(s) come on during this test.

IMG_20180702_0800180 (resized).jpg
#2381 85 days ago

So, maybe ajfclark is on to something with the LEDs. I swapped out all of the LEDs, almost all of the issues went away. Now I only have a few instances where this is happening - with the wheel lights and the USA lights. Everything else seems to be fine. I had seen ghosting before, but these were full brightness - and it hadn't happened with the previous board.

Does this help understand what is happening? It is quite playable now, but if there is something not workingproperly, I would rather make sure it is fixed.

Quoted from jedi42:

I don't think that is the issue, there is some ghosting, but these are fully on. This didn't happen with my previous board when I had it working.

#2382 85 days ago

Maybe some leakage on some TIP42s causing the Leds to light fairly bright but not fully on.

#2383 85 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Maybe some leakage on some TIP42s causing the Leds to light fairly bright but not fully on.

It's odd that it only seemed to be the lamps controlled by U52 and not those controlled by U53, right?

#2384 85 days ago

So, test all the 42s? If it is just leakage, would I be able to tell if one or more of them are an issue?

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Maybe some leakage on some TIP42s causing the Leds to light fairly bright but not fully on.

#2385 85 days ago
Quoted from darkchao:

Hey guys, does anyone happen to have a translite for sale? My current one is missing a big chunk out of the middle.
Also, very interested in a replacement upper playfield if production ever surfaces.
Thanks,
- E

PM sent

#2386 85 days ago

Recieved and installed the space station from freakandgeek. The quality and detail is top notch. I’m not too sure about the silver yet but other than that it looks good. It’s defiantly an upgrade form the old one. Here is some before and after pics

3AE0153C-E3F9-45F5-8EDD-9B4BB13B3ED6 (resized).jpeg46FC9DE7-AA15-4FFC-9D5E-31B90D0F109C (resized).jpeg842DE6BC-CE2D-43D1-8757-E2698D95F31D (resized).jpegBA9B6DCE-5A33-4D5A-8996-95F07AC28240 (resized).jpegEE286894-8E9D-49D6-851B-5E54E0DD1676 (resized).jpeg
#2387 81 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

So, test all the 42s? If it is just leakage, would I be able to tell if one or more of them are an issue?

I had another thought on this. If the tabs on the transistors Q52, Q54, Q56 and Q58 were touching... Actually it would still happen with incandescents if that was the issue...

Any progress though?

#2388 81 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Recieved and installed the space station from freakandgeek. The quality and detail is top notch. I’m not too sure about the silver yet but other than that it looks good. It’s defiantly an upgrade form the old one. Here is some before and after pics

That is a nice model. I’d probably repaint it to resemble the original a little more and maybe dry brush some shadows on. Hope they’re around when I restore my game.

#2389 80 days ago

None of the transistors seemed to be touching. No other progress made, however haven't spent much time on it with the nice weather. Still haven't tested the tip42s, but not really sure what I am looking for in the test, as they are working, just with some leakage.

Quoted from ajfclark:

I had another thought on this. If the tabs on the transistors Q52, Q54, Q56 and Q58 were touching... Actually it would still happen with incandescents if that was the issue...
Any progress though?

#2390 78 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Recieved and installed the space station from freakandgeek. The quality and detail is top notch. I’m not too sure about the silver yet but other than that it looks good. It’s defiantly an upgrade form the old one. Here is some before and after pics

It's nice to have an alternative - but personally I do think I would prefer it matching the backglass style a little more ...white colour, 4 struts.

#2391 78 days ago

For Sale is my Space Station. PM me for details. Needs some love. $1,100 takes it.

20180706_182344 (resized).jpg
#2392 77 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Recieved and installed the space station from freakandgeek. The quality and detail is top notch. I’m not too sure about the silver yet but other than that it looks good. It’s defiantly an upgrade form the old one. Here is some before and after pics

I wonder what the new one would look like chromed?

#2393 77 days ago
Quoted from Ive:

It's nice to have an alternative - but personally I do think I would prefer it matching the backglass style a little more ...white colour, 4 struts.

I agree. I love the surface detail and resolution, and even the overall "21st century / aggro-scifi" aesthetic is cool... but it unfortunately clashes with what's most prominently featured on the backglass. It would be easy enough to repaint silver to white, but the 3-spoke design is too incongruent.

Still, I'd love to see a proper 4-spoke version in the same updated style.

#2394 75 days ago

Last night, I was playing my Space Station and in the middle of Green Mode, my game restarted. Then a little while later, it happened again. Any suggestions on what I should look at that could be causing the game to restart while pinball is in play?

#2395 75 days ago

Get them while you can - these won't be around forever

https://www.retrorefurbs.com/shop/space-station-upper-playfield-decals/

#2396 75 days ago

Anyone have before and after install pictures they can share? Any trimming required to install? I would think they could print these on demand, so they could restock if necessary.

#2397 75 days ago
Quoted from kechlesurf:

Last night, I was playing my Space Station and in the middle of Green Mode, my game restarted. Then a little while later, it happened again. Any suggestions on what I should look at that could be causing the game to restart while pinball is in play?

I would guess that the power supply is no longer keeping up with the demand during times when lots of solenoids are firing. The 5v is dropping enough to cause a reset. What's the reading at TP1 on to power supply board? Does TP3 drop below +10.5v during multiball?

grumpy might have better guidance.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Game_resets mentions that it's also worth checking it's not just that as things get super exciting the game slam tilts - you get a different sound and display if that's the case.

#2399 73 days ago

ordered my decals, all i need now is a new upper play field to put them on. Mine is 1/2 clear GORILLA TAPE

#2400 73 days ago
Quoted from TicTacSeth:

Does it come in white? Wondering if can match the backglass a little more.

I can make you a white one...PM me if you still do and we can work it out.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
From: $ 16.95
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Annapolis, MD
$ 16.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
$ 69.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinbotz
$ 25.00
Apparel - Unisex
Project Pinball Charity
$ 9.95
Apparel - Unisex
Pinball Wheezer
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 53.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
€ 3.95
Flipper Parts
Multigame
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 129.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 999.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
$ 259.99
There are 2471 posts in this topic. You are on page 48 of 50.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside