Space Station Club... Members Only!


By mof

4 years ago


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There are 1775 posts in topic. You are on page 31 of 36.
#1501 7 months ago

I'll take pics of my pop bumper wiring tonight If I remember.
Do you have the PDF manual? Its not the easiest thing to reference, but its better than nothing.

#1502 7 months ago

ok, So I put fresh solder on all 15 of the pins on the board. It didn't help anything.

I have included a pic of the connector and the wires. can anyone confirm that the wires are in the correct locations? And I'm not missing any?

Once it was put back together I decided to try and experiment with the Optos. I took the lane diverter off, and had just the exposed opto board. When a new game is started it makes a random 1/4 turn every time it seems, whether I block the optos with a piece of cardboard or not. When I load a ball in the left orbit, then lock it, the second ball makes the diverter rotate that random 1/4 rotation or so, whether the optos are blocked or not.

Basically, it doesn't appear that the optos are registering anything. and the motor is just rotating it a set amount then stopping wherever it likes. If the ball doesnt lock after being popped out of the saucer, it will begin rotating nonstop until something is triggered.

SO... I kinda think my optos are bad? anyone else have experience with another way to test them?

connector (resized).jpg

#1503 7 months ago

You wires appear to all be there and in the right locations. But until you cut that IDC connector off and put a good crimp connector on like I have done to repair this same problem with my Space Station, my hands are tied here and I cannot help. Good luck with the repair.

DSCF6055 (resized).JPG

#1504 7 months ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Found a couple more cut wires with no clue where they go. They are orange in color. So I have no clue where they go and the missing wires off the pop bumpers. Any help would be much appreciated

Here's a pic of my working Space Station pop nest:

20170215_222702 (resized).jpg

Now I'm not sure what happened on yours, other than to say it looks like there is some SERIOUS shennaigans going on. That second picture you posted...

...4fbb0335cf6efd7d315c964c2a458bb71b347deb (resized).jpg

...it looks like an orange wire is going directly from a switch to the coil?! No bueno! Oddly enough it looks like the remnants of the original blue wire(s) are still on the coils... so where are the rest of those wires? THOSE, and ONLY those (in addition to the red ones on the other terminals, which appear to be correct) are what you need to power the coils.

16286e3768a6d91f1e3f76c0d881b6ee3eb7cbd5 (resized).jpg

#1505 7 months ago

You know, it didn't even occur to me to change the connector? I was looking at it and thinking to myself "I have no idea where to get another one of those, or how to put the wires into it". Because I've never used that kind. Just changing to a normal connector makes sense. I amaze myself with lack of critical thinking sometimes.

#1506 7 months ago

Thank you for the picture. I'm going to have to dig deep I think to figure out what they have going on in there. I'll
Probably end up ordering a repro ow era manual just to have on hand.

It looks like the blues are one of the power wires to the coils and the Orange are for the switches?

#1507 7 months ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

t looks like the blues are one of the power wires to the coils and the Orange are for the switches?

My basic understanding (I might be wrong, if someone else feels compelled to clarify) is that, in this case (because other games and coils may be different):

- the RED wires are the input power to the coils,
- the Blue and/or gray wires are the "ground path" to complete that power circuit. The board transistors are what turns this circuit on or off.
- Switch wires can be all manner of different colors throughout a game so there's no hard and fast rule per se. Schematics help. But looking at my game it appears there are orange wires connecting to pop trigger switches.

The basic operation theory is, the trigger switch sends input to the MPU via one discreet path; the MPU registers this signal and says "OK, time to turn on this transistor" [which then completes the coil power circuit allowing the coil to fire]; when the coil fires it pulls the plunger in, which closes the second switch in the pop stack, which sends a signal to the MPU to score the hit and tell the coil to turn off and reset.

So, wiring the switches directly to the coil accomplishes nothing. The MPU is always the middleman. You have to sort that out before doing anything else.

#1508 7 months ago

I was looking at the pop bumpers on taxi, pinbot, and rollergames and they are all different. I think I'm going to have to just do some testing and hope to figure it out.

I guess this is what happens when you get into a project that someone else started

#1509 7 months ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

I was looking at the pop bumpers on taxi, pinbot, and rollergames and they are all different. I think I'm going to have to just do some testing and hope to figure it out.

The wire colors, and their relative meandering paths from "end 1, around obstacles and pf up to wherever end 2 is" are very likely to be different.

But Taxi, Pinbot, and I think even Rollergames are all built on the same basic operational platform as Space Station: Williams System 11.

So yes, start testing one of those games - preferably one you have the manual and schematics for. As you come to understand how and why things are connected as they are, and how the total functioning system works, you'll be able to apply that basic conceptual knowledge to your project.

Start with the pop bumpers and compare how the switches and coils are wired. Like I said: even if the colors and paths are all different, *functionally* and *logically* they are wired the same to an extent, to operate the same things.

#1510 7 months ago
Quoted from dozer1:

You wires appear to all be there and in the right locations. But until you cut that IDC connector off and put a good crimp connector on like I have done to repair this same problem with my Space Station, my hands are tied here and I cannot help. Good luck with the repair.

So here's a question from a rookie, since all the pins aren't used on this IDC connector, does it have to be a 15 pin connector/IDC that goes in there? (I have a spare IDC that has 13 spots on it that I would try out if it's all the same.)

#1511 7 months ago
Quoted from TicTacSeth:

So here's a question from a rookie, since all the pins aren't used on this IDC connector, does it have to be a 15 pin connector/IDC that goes in there? (I have a spare IDC that has 13 spots on it that I would try out if it's all the same.)

Yes a 15 pin. There are more active pins on one side then the other with the dead pins dividing the 2. That way the connector will only go on one way so you don't blow something up.

#1512 7 months ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

only issue is the green lights are always on.....and it's not the relay.

Paul remove 1J12 from the CPU, turn on power to game. Are the green lamps off?

#1513 7 months ago

Got the pop bumpers working like they should!! After figuring out the mess of stuff they had going on, I was able to get everything straightened out and working!!

Now I just have to figure out why my white/violet gi iasnt working which shouldn't be a big deal and I'm ready to either tear down for clear coat on the pf or just Mylar and play it.

#1514 7 months ago

Gi fixed. Bad fuse holder.

#1515 7 months ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Got the pop bumpers working like they should!! After figuring out the mess of stuff they had going on, I was able to get everything straightened out and working!!
Now I just have to figure out why my white/violet gi iasnt working which shouldn't be a big deal and I'm ready to either tear down for clear coat on the pf or just Mylar and play it.

I'm always a fan of clear coat, but it sure takes a lot of effort:)

#1516 7 months ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Gi fixed. Bad fuse holder.

Your good, fixing those problems bang...bang...bang.

#1517 7 months ago

Ok guys, I re-wired the 15-pin connector on the main power board and My lane diverter is still just making random degrees of turning. (on a side note, I think it made my flippers more powerful?)

Also still not getting the drop targets to function reliably. Possibly also an opto problem. This game was filthy when i got it, and Ive tried to clean the optos as best I can multiple times,

So, the power board is freshly connected. The opto board is getting power, the motor is getting power. the Gears are new. My only thought left is that the opto sensors are faulty and need to be replaced. So, anyone know the correct model sensor to replace them with?

I was going to try two of these:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-13451-00

If that sensor doesn't work, I'm either going to eliminate the lane diverter from the game, by directly leading the left orbit into the left lock, and the ramp into the right lock, or I will need to fashion my own lane diverter with an arduino and a stepper motor.

#1518 7 months ago

Dam, thought that was going to do it for you scarybeard. So there still is a possibility on those optos, but I want you to take note of post # 1362 in this thread and the next 7-8 posts after that. What lead me to the 15 pin connector fix is a matt_adams post about having a problem somewhere is the power board itself. If you happen to have access to another power board in another game or something, try swapping it out. I would be at a loss too if the optos and the power board swap didn't address it. I wouldn't quit though, it has to be something that you can overcome. Maybe a guy with better diagnostic methods will chime in and help out.
One thing I would try is running something in front of those 2 optos with the diverter off and in switch edges test. See if you get anything out of them.

#1519 7 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

Ok guys, I re-wired the 15-pin connector on the main power board and My lane diverter is still just making random degrees of turning. (on a side note, I think it made my flippers more powerful?)
Also still not getting the drop targets to function reliably. Possibly also an opto problem. This game was filthy when i got it, and Ive tried to clean the optos as best I can multiple times,
So, the power board is freshly connected. The opto board is getting power, the motor is getting power. the Gears are new. My only thought left is that the opto sensors are faulty and need to be replaced. So, anyone know the correct model sensor to replace them with?
I was going to try two of these:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-13451-00
If that sensor doesn't work, I'm either going to eliminate the lane diverter from the game, by directly leading the left orbit into the left lock, and the ramp into the right lock, or I will need to fashion my own lane diverter with an arduino and a stepper motor.

I agree with dozer1, but want to add in

System11's just do weird things when their power supplies have old components. The first thing I do when I have weird system11 problems is rebuild the power supply or replace it with a new one.

Those capacitors are 25+ years old, and only have a rating of about 15 years... replace them, the hv circuit, and reflow all of the pins.

This fixes 95% of weird issues that I have experienced.

On my diverter I replaced the Optos and the motor and then all was right with the world.

Fingers crossed that you get this fixed, reinventing the wheel on this with an arduino and stepper motor should not have to be a consideration:)

#1520 7 months ago

Agree w chosen. Always go back and ensure the basics are there ie dependable power in the right amount. Although I do not rebuild mine cause I don't have the skills yet, I have always had excellent results with xpin etc and found by doing this it has cleared up weird game play issues, lighting, displays, sound etc. Ymmv. That being said, if the connectors are burnt then a new ps not gonna really solve that high resistance. There is one interconnect board on the back wall of the cabinet of space station that I have not got to yet as it is very awkward to access that I think is partially fried and the resulting 1/2 GI out including pops on my playfield, and coin door. Good luck! Fantastic game, well worth persevering on the troubleshooting and fix.

#1521 7 months ago

Thanks guys. I have new optos in the mail. I tried blocking the current optos with a piece of cardboard and it didnt seem to matter if they were blocked or not. Motor behaved pretty much the same either way when triggered.

I'll try soldering these new optos on, and after that, I may bite the bullet and get the new $140 power supply board from Marcos. If that can fix it, it would be a lot less effort than building an arduino Frankenstein diverter. And if it doesnt fix it, then i have a perfectly good used power board I can throw up on the market and get a little of that money back.

I'll keep you posted.

#1522 7 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

Thanks guys. I have new optos in the mail. I tried blocking the current optos with a piece of cardboard and it didnt seem to matter if they were blocked or not. Motor behaved pretty much the same either way when triggered.
I'll try soldering these new optos on, and after that, I may bite the bullet and get the new $140 power supply board from Marcos. If that can fix it, it would be a lot less effort than building an arduino Frankenstein diverter. And if it doesnt fix it, then i have a perfectly good used power board I can throw up on the market and get a little of that money back.
I'll keep you posted.

Space Station is a system11 A, you can find a few other solutions, to the power board, marco is the most expensive
ebay.com link » Brand New Wdp3211a Power Supply Board For Williams 3 11 Amp Data East Pinball

#1523 6 months ago

welp. I replaced the optical sensors on the board, still no dice. the diverter still stops in random positions. So to recap:

good motor
good gears
motor is receiving power
opto board is receiving power
optical sensors are new
I re-pined, and replaced the 15 connector on the main power board.

further suggestions? because right now I'm at a loss. I guess it could still be the power board? but I don't have a second board to change it out with, and if there is something wrong with mine I don't know how to diagnose it. Short of buying a new board and crossing my fingers what else can I do?

#1524 6 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

I don't know how to diagnose it.

Two things that are important for a power supply is the voltage level and that it is free of A/C. For your power supply there is 3 voltage to be concerned with TP1 should be 4.98-5.05 TP3 should be 12.5-14.5 TP4 should be -12.5 to -14.5 volts DC. Then switch your DMM to AC volts and recheck each TP, there should be less than 0.7 volts AC on each test point.

Quoted from scarybeard:
the diverter still stops in random positions.

I can't find a diagram for this board, so its hard for me to give good advise. Have you tried to do a switch test for the 2 optos you just replaced? Did you reflow solder on the header pins on this board? Have you checked the 2 diodes on the board? You should double check the optos for correct orientation on the board.

#1525 6 months ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Space Station is a system11 A, you can find a few other solutions, to the power board, marco is the most expensive
ebay.com link » Brand New Wdp3211a Power Supply Board For Williams 3 11 Amp Data East Pinball

Space Station is System 11B

http://www.system11.org/info/station_info.html

#1526 6 months ago

Thanks for the info guys, i'll start checking things.

#1527 6 months ago

side note, what does switch 37 actually do? mine is not, and never has been hooked up. It's in the left orbit leading to USA under the upper playfield.

switches (resized).jpg

#1528 6 months ago

Hi guys, I finally took the time to put my Leg Light-Ups and Beatmasters shooter housing light up on the game. I chose green cuz the start button is lit green and the green looks good during Condition Green. Sorry for the not to clear pictures, it's the best my camera will do. As you can see from the pictures the clear leg bolt washers I give with each of my kits actually light up green because of my Leg Light-Ups.

IMGA0986 (resized).JPG
IMGA0987 (resized).JPG
IMGA0988 (resized).JPG

#1529 6 months ago

Not to big on the leg light ups, but that shooter housing I have been thinking about.

#1530 6 months ago

I installed the green lighted flipper buttons. Big fan of those as you can tell. Have them on Star Trek too! And yes that is a Tron cocktail arcade.

IMG_2434 (resized).JPG

#1531 6 months ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I chose green cuz the start button is lit green and the green looks good during Condition Green.

Can you put white leds in with the green leds so that when I fix your game I can make it switch back and forth between the two colors.

#1532 6 months ago
Quoted from heni1977:

I installed the green lighted flipper buttons. Big fan of those as you can tell. Have them on Star Trek too! And yes that is a Tron cocktail arcade.

I have the green flipper buttons too, they look really sharp.

#1533 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Can you put white leds in with the green leds so that when I fix your game I can make it switch back and forth between the two colors.

That would be cool but no. I'll check that plug today, I keep forgetting.

#1534 6 months ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

That would be cool but no.

I know you can do it!!

#1535 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I know you can do it!!

Nope, there's only so much physical space to work with.

#1536 6 months ago

@Grumpy what are you referencing with the 'TP' numbers? I cant find them in the manual or on the board.

I pulled out the multimeter and checked out the readings on the 15 pin. results seem to be good?
(I have very little experience with multimeters, reading these on the 200V setting. that's right?)

Going to try reading the actual connector that hooks up to the opto board next. Grumpy let me know what those TP's are.

powerboard (resized).jpg

#1537 6 months ago

Page 59 of the manual has the power supply diagram on it and shows the 4 test points. TP-1 5 volts DC TP-2 Ground TP-3 12 volts DC unreg. TP-4 -12 volts DC unreg.

Quoted from scarybeard:
reading these on the 200V setting. that's right?)

On your meter there is a DC setting and an AC setting, so check TP-1 for 5 volts on the DC setting first it should be 4.98-5.1 volts DC then check it on AC setting and it should be less than 0.70 volts AC. If this AC voltage is too high it will cause trouble with the IC chips on every board in the game. If the AC level is too high it means you need to recap the power supply which is a very common thing.

Quoted from scarybeard:
Going to try reading the actual connector that hooks up to the opto board next. Grumpy let me know what those TP's are.

There isn't much in manual on this board but I'm sure its the same as other opto boards of that period. Since it has 2 optos there will be a 6 pin connector with 5 wires. 2 pins are for power (grey/ yellow)and ground (black wire) this should be 12 volts DC. The other 3 wires are for the output of the optos. If the optos are switches #52 and #53 then there will be one green/violet signal wire and one white/yellow and one white/green return wires. With the connector removed from the board and the game in switch test you can jumper the white/yellow wire to the green/violet wire and switch #52 will show on the display then repeat for the white/green wire to green/violet and switch #53 will show on the display. This checks that the wiring back to the CPU is good. Then if the switch wiring and the 12 volt power are good its a opto board problem. Let me know what you find on this and we will continue from there.

#1538 6 months ago

ok, If I checked the right things on the power board TP1 is just bellow the 15 pin, and 2-4 are little pegs that stick out near the center of the board and are labeled with just their number.

TP1 = 5.0v
TP2 = GRND
TP3 = 11.9v
TP4 = 13.7v

AC = 0.0 (on all pins)

I double checked the opto board 6 pin connector and got the following readings from each wire:

1 - 0v - Grey wire with yellow stripe running along it (I assume this is info out?)
2 - X (not used)
3 - GRND
4 - 4.8V - green and purple wire
5 - 4.8V - white and yellow wire
6 - 4.8V - white and green wire

That #1 Grey wire with the yellow stripe I think connects up with the CPU board in the lower left. the '1J11' connector. its the only grey wire with a yellow band I can find back there?

#1539 6 months ago

Grey/yellow wire needs to be 12 volts DC. Check this wire for 12 volts at 1J11.

#1540 6 months ago

ok, tried to trace back the Grey/yellow but there's a junction of about 100 wires all tied together and things get muddy... If I need to be absolutely certain I can unharness them and be sure. I did find 2 more candidates for the grey/yellow wire:

1J11 on the CPU - our Grey /yellow is #5 on the connector. none of the wires on this connector have power.

J7 on the aux power board - #3 on the connector reading no power on any of the J7 pins

15 pin connector on the main power board - #3 on this connector, reading 11.9v

#1541 6 months ago

One way to know for sure is to turn off power and check for continuity from the opto board connector to the connector you have found with the grey/yellow wire. In the mean time I will try to find it in the manual.

#1542 6 months ago

ooh, good call I'll try that.

#1543 6 months ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

1J11 on the CPU - our Grey /yellow is #5 on the connector

This is for solenoid #4 so forget about this connector.

#1544 6 months ago

Does this game have a interconnect board in the back box? If so there will be a cracked header pin solder joint on it.

#1545 6 months ago

Just tried getting continuity and had no luck. I followed the grey yellow wire from the opto board, to a connector between the playfield and the backbox, and noticed that the wire changes style at that connector to a grey with yellow bands like tiger stripes instead of the long running stripe.

However I tried to get continuity to this (running stripe) wire as well and got nothing. So I need to go back and double check exactly where that grey wire goes. I may end up just replacing the opto board connector so I can disconnect the grey yellow and follow it back to its origins that way, then re-connect it.

Thanks for the diligent help. I owe you a beer.
Have to get some work done before my art director realizes Ive been messing with pinball machines all day instead of working. I'll try and trace that wire back later tonight.

*EDIT* whats an interconnect board?

#1546 6 months ago

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:WMS_Space_Station_Interconnect.jpg
This says there is one, but no mention of it in the manual. This wouldn't be the first mistake I have found in Williams manuals. These boards are used to make splices for wires to go in two directions. Cracked header pins are very common on these boards.

#1547 6 months ago

I have a feeling this will be fixed TONIGHT!

#1548 6 months ago

Oh yea I'm pretty sure theres one on the left side of the backbox. I'll check it out.

So I went back and re-followed the wire twice and ended up in 2 different places. So I have started just unziptying and unharnessing the wires loose. I'll probably have a bitch of a time getting them all bundled properly back together later but I've lost my sense of humor with these wires at this point.

So I follow the grey/yellow wire, again, careful to make double sure Its still the same wire, and I find it leads to the drop target board under the main ramp. I double checked this, and tripple checked this. This is where it goes next.

But when I try to get continuity between the 2 connectors on the same wire, nothing. WTF. I hate this machine. What could be keeping me from getting continuity?

Grey_Yellow_Wire (resized).jpg

#1549 6 months ago

The wire then goes from the drop target board to the 4 pin connector on the 3bank drop target.

I DO get continuity between the 2 drop targets, but something is stopping it before we reach the opto board.

Frustrating... but exciting... progress.

#1550 6 months ago

BOOM! Pretty sure I figured it out! I bypassed the drop target connector and I got continuity to the opto board. Have to assume that crimp connector was not continuing power. Now I just need to re-do the connectors and hopefully she will be up and running correctly for the first time in 5 years.

IMG_4791 (resized).JPG

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