Space Station Club... Members Only!

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By mof

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by MustangPaul

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There are 1534 posts in topic. You are on page 31 of 31.
#1501 11 days ago

I'll take pics of my pop bumper wiring tonight If I remember.
Do you have the PDF manual? Its not the easiest thing to reference, but its better than nothing.

#1502 11 days ago

ok, So I put fresh solder on all 15 of the pins on the board. It didn't help anything.

I have included a pic of the connector and the wires. can anyone confirm that the wires are in the correct locations? And I'm not missing any?

Once it was put back together I decided to try and experiment with the Optos. I took the lane diverter off, and had just the exposed opto board. When a new game is started it makes a random 1/4 turn every time it seems, whether I block the optos with a piece of cardboard or not. When I load a ball in the left orbit, then lock it, the second ball makes the diverter rotate that random 1/4 rotation or so, whether the optos are blocked or not.

Basically, it doesn't appear that the optos are registering anything. and the motor is just rotating it a set amount then stopping wherever it likes. If the ball doesnt lock after being popped out of the saucer, it will begin rotating nonstop until something is triggered.

SO... I kinda think my optos are bad? anyone else have experience with another way to test them?

connector (resized).jpg

#1503 11 days ago

You wires appear to all be there and in the right locations. But until you cut that IDC connector off and put a good crimp connector on like I have done to repair this same problem with my Space Station, my hands are tied here and I cannot help. Good luck with the repair.

DSCF6055 (resized).JPG

#1504 11 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Found a couple more cut wires with no clue where they go. They are orange in color. So I have no clue where they go and the missing wires off the pop bumpers. Any help would be much appreciated

Here's a pic of my working Space Station pop nest:

20170215_222702 (resized).jpg

Now I'm not sure what happened on yours, other than to say it looks like there is some SERIOUS shennaigans going on. That second picture you posted...

...4fbb0335cf6efd7d315c964c2a458bb71b347deb (resized).jpg

...it looks like an orange wire is going directly from a switch to the coil?! No bueno! Oddly enough it looks like the remnants of the original blue wire(s) are still on the coils... so where are the rest of those wires? THOSE, and ONLY those (in addition to the red ones on the other terminals, which appear to be correct) are what you need to power the coils.

16286e3768a6d91f1e3f76c0d881b6ee3eb7cbd5 (resized).jpg

#1505 11 days ago

You know, it didn't even occur to me to change the connector? I was looking at it and thinking to myself "I have no idea where to get another one of those, or how to put the wires into it". Because I've never used that kind. Just changing to a normal connector makes sense. I amaze myself with lack of critical thinking sometimes.

#1506 11 days ago

Thank you for the picture. I'm going to have to dig deep I think to figure out what they have going on in there. I'll
Probably end up ordering a repro ow era manual just to have on hand.

It looks like the blues are one of the power wires to the coils and the Orange are for the switches?

#1507 11 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

t looks like the blues are one of the power wires to the coils and the Orange are for the switches?

My basic understanding (I might be wrong, if someone else feels compelled to clarify) is that, in this case (because other games and coils may be different):

- the RED wires are the input power to the coils,
- the Blue and/or gray wires are the "ground path" to complete that power circuit. The board transistors are what turns this circuit on or off.
- Switch wires can be all manner of different colors throughout a game so there's no hard and fast rule per se. Schematics help. But looking at my game it appears there are orange wires connecting to pop trigger switches.

The basic operation theory is, the trigger switch sends input to the MPU via one discreet path; the MPU registers this signal and says "OK, time to turn on this transistor" [which then completes the coil power circuit allowing the coil to fire]; when the coil fires it pulls the plunger in, which closes the second switch in the pop stack, which sends a signal to the MPU to score the hit and tell the coil to turn off and reset.

So, wiring the switches directly to the coil accomplishes nothing. The MPU is always the middleman. You have to sort that out before doing anything else.

#1508 11 days ago

I was looking at the pop bumpers on taxi, pinbot, and rollergames and they are all different. I think I'm going to have to just do some testing and hope to figure it out.

I guess this is what happens when you get into a project that someone else started

#1509 10 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

I was looking at the pop bumpers on taxi, pinbot, and rollergames and they are all different. I think I'm going to have to just do some testing and hope to figure it out.

The wire colors, and their relative meandering paths from "end 1, around obstacles and pf up to wherever end 2 is" are very likely to be different.

But Taxi, Pinbot, and I think even Rollergames are all built on the same basic operational platform as Space Station: Williams System 11.

So yes, start testing one of those games - preferably one you have the manual and schematics for. As you come to understand how and why things are connected as they are, and how the total functioning system works, you'll be able to apply that basic conceptual knowledge to your project.

Start with the pop bumpers and compare how the switches and coils are wired. Like I said: even if the colors and paths are all different, *functionally* and *logically* they are wired the same to an extent, to operate the same things.

#1510 9 days ago
Quoted from dozer1:

You wires appear to all be there and in the right locations. But until you cut that IDC connector off and put a good crimp connector on like I have done to repair this same problem with my Space Station, my hands are tied here and I cannot help. Good luck with the repair.

So here's a question from a rookie, since all the pins aren't used on this IDC connector, does it have to be a 15 pin connector/IDC that goes in there? (I have a spare IDC that has 13 spots on it that I would try out if it's all the same.)

#1511 9 days ago
Quoted from TicTacSeth:

So here's a question from a rookie, since all the pins aren't used on this IDC connector, does it have to be a 15 pin connector/IDC that goes in there? (I have a spare IDC that has 13 spots on it that I would try out if it's all the same.)

Yes a 15 pin. There are more active pins on one side then the other with the dead pins dividing the 2. That way the connector will only go on one way so you don't blow something up.

#1512 8 days ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

only issue is the green lights are always on.....and it's not the relay.

Paul remove 1J12 from the CPU, turn on power to game. Are the green lamps off?

#1513 8 days ago

Got the pop bumpers working like they should!! After figuring out the mess of stuff they had going on, I was able to get everything straightened out and working!!

Now I just have to figure out why my white/violet gi iasnt working which shouldn't be a big deal and I'm ready to either tear down for clear coat on the pf or just Mylar and play it.

#1514 7 days ago

Gi fixed. Bad fuse holder.

#1515 7 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Got the pop bumpers working like they should!! After figuring out the mess of stuff they had going on, I was able to get everything straightened out and working!!
Now I just have to figure out why my white/violet gi iasnt working which shouldn't be a big deal and I'm ready to either tear down for clear coat on the pf or just Mylar and play it.

I'm always a fan of clear coat, but it sure takes a lot of effort:)

#1516 7 days ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Gi fixed. Bad fuse holder.

Your good, fixing those problems bang...bang...bang.

#1517 7 days ago

Ok guys, I re-wired the 15-pin connector on the main power board and My lane diverter is still just making random degrees of turning. (on a side note, I think it made my flippers more powerful?)

Also still not getting the drop targets to function reliably. Possibly also an opto problem. This game was filthy when i got it, and Ive tried to clean the optos as best I can multiple times,

So, the power board is freshly connected. The opto board is getting power, the motor is getting power. the Gears are new. My only thought left is that the opto sensors are faulty and need to be replaced. So, anyone know the correct model sensor to replace them with?

I was going to try two of these:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-13451-00

If that sensor doesn't work, I'm either going to eliminate the lane diverter from the game, by directly leading the left orbit into the left lock, and the ramp into the right lock, or I will need to fashion my own lane diverter with an arduino and a stepper motor.

#1518 6 days ago

Dam, thought that was going to do it for you scarybeard. So there still is a possibility on those optos, but I want you to take note of post # 1362 in this thread and the next 7-8 posts after that. What lead me to the 15 pin connector fix is a matt_adams post about having a problem somewhere is the power board itself. If you happen to have access to another power board in another game or something, try swapping it out. I would be at a loss too if the optos and the power board swap didn't address it. I wouldn't quit though, it has to be something that you can overcome. Maybe a guy with better diagnostic methods will chime in and help out.
One thing I would try is running something in front of those 2 optos with the diverter off and in switch edges test. See if you get anything out of them.

#1519 6 days ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

Ok guys, I re-wired the 15-pin connector on the main power board and My lane diverter is still just making random degrees of turning. (on a side note, I think it made my flippers more powerful?)
Also still not getting the drop targets to function reliably. Possibly also an opto problem. This game was filthy when i got it, and Ive tried to clean the optos as best I can multiple times,
So, the power board is freshly connected. The opto board is getting power, the motor is getting power. the Gears are new. My only thought left is that the opto sensors are faulty and need to be replaced. So, anyone know the correct model sensor to replace them with?
I was going to try two of these:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5490-13451-00
If that sensor doesn't work, I'm either going to eliminate the lane diverter from the game, by directly leading the left orbit into the left lock, and the ramp into the right lock, or I will need to fashion my own lane diverter with an arduino and a stepper motor.

I agree with dozer1, but want to add in

System11's just do weird things when their power supplies have old components. The first thing I do when I have weird system11 problems is rebuild the power supply or replace it with a new one.

Those capacitors are 25+ years old, and only have a rating of about 15 years... replace them, the hv circuit, and reflow all of the pins.

This fixes 95% of weird issues that I have experienced.

On my diverter I replaced the Optos and the motor and then all was right with the world.

Fingers crossed that you get this fixed, reinventing the wheel on this with an arduino and stepper motor should not have to be a consideration:)

#1520 6 days ago

Agree w chosen. Always go back and ensure the basics are there ie dependable power in the right amount. Although I do not rebuild mine cause I don't have the skills yet, I have always had excellent results with xpin etc and found by doing this it has cleared up weird game play issues, lighting, displays, sound etc. Ymmv. That being said, if the connectors are burnt then a new ps not gonna really solve that high resistance. There is one interconnect board on the back wall of the cabinet of space station that I have not got to yet as it is very awkward to access that I think is partially fried and the resulting 1/2 GI out including pops on my playfield, and coin door. Good luck! Fantastic game, well worth persevering on the troubleshooting and fix.

#1521 5 days ago

Thanks guys. I have new optos in the mail. I tried blocking the current optos with a piece of cardboard and it didnt seem to matter if they were blocked or not. Motor behaved pretty much the same either way when triggered.

I'll try soldering these new optos on, and after that, I may bite the bullet and get the new $140 power supply board from Marcos. If that can fix it, it would be a lot less effort than building an arduino Frankenstein diverter. And if it doesnt fix it, then i have a perfectly good used power board I can throw up on the market and get a little of that money back.

I'll keep you posted.

#1522 5 days ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

Thanks guys. I have new optos in the mail. I tried blocking the current optos with a piece of cardboard and it didnt seem to matter if they were blocked or not. Motor behaved pretty much the same either way when triggered.
I'll try soldering these new optos on, and after that, I may bite the bullet and get the new $140 power supply board from Marcos. If that can fix it, it would be a lot less effort than building an arduino Frankenstein diverter. And if it doesnt fix it, then i have a perfectly good used power board I can throw up on the market and get a little of that money back.
I'll keep you posted.

Space Station is a system11 A, you can find a few other solutions, to the power board, marco is the most expensive
ebay.com link » Brand New Wdp3211a Power Supply Board For Williams 3 11 Amp Data East Pinball

#1523 3 days ago

welp. I replaced the optical sensors on the board, still no dice. the diverter still stops in random positions. So to recap:

good motor
good gears
motor is receiving power
opto board is receiving power
optical sensors are new
I re-pined, and replaced the 15 connector on the main power board.

further suggestions? because right now I'm at a loss. I guess it could still be the power board? but I don't have a second board to change it out with, and if there is something wrong with mine I don't know how to diagnose it. Short of buying a new board and crossing my fingers what else can I do?

#1524 3 days ago
Quoted from scarybeard:

I don't know how to diagnose it.

Two things that are important for a power supply is the voltage level and that it is free of A/C. For your power supply there is 3 voltage to be concerned with TP1 should be 4.98-5.05 TP3 should be 12.5-14.5 TP4 should be -12.5 to -14.5 volts DC. Then switch your DMM to AC volts and recheck each TP, there should be less than 0.7 volts AC on each test point.

Quoted from scarybeard:
the diverter still stops in random positions.

I can't find a diagram for this board, so its hard for me to give good advise. Have you tried to do a switch test for the 2 optos you just replaced? Did you reflow solder on the header pins on this board? Have you checked the 2 diodes on the board? You should double check the optos for correct orientation on the board.

#1525 3 days ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Space Station is a system11 A, you can find a few other solutions, to the power board, marco is the most expensive
ebay.com link » Brand New Wdp3211a Power Supply Board For Williams 3 11 Amp Data East Pinball

Space Station is System 11B

http://www.system11.org/info/station_info.html

#1526 3 days ago

Thanks for the info guys, i'll start checking things.

#1527 3 days ago

side note, what does switch 37 actually do? mine is not, and never has been hooked up. It's in the left orbit leading to USA under the upper playfield.

switches (resized).jpg

#1528 2 days ago

Hi guys, I finally took the time to put my Leg Light-Ups and Beatmasters shooter housing light up on the game. I chose green cuz the start button is lit green and the green looks good during Condition Green. Sorry for the not to clear pictures, it's the best my camera will do. As you can see from the pictures the clear leg bolt washers I give with each of my kits actually light up green because of my Leg Light-Ups.

IMGA0986 (resized).JPG
IMGA0987 (resized).JPG
IMGA0988 (resized).JPG

#1529 2 days ago

Not to big on the leg light ups, but that shooter housing I have been thinking about.

#1530 2 days ago

I installed the green lighted flipper buttons. Big fan of those as you can tell. Have them on Star Trek too! And yes that is a Tron cocktail arcade.

IMG_2434 (resized).JPG

#1531 2 days ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I chose green cuz the start button is lit green and the green looks good during Condition Green.

Can you put white leds in with the green leds so that when I fix your game I can make it switch back and forth between the two colors.

#1532 2 days ago
Quoted from heni1977:

I installed the green lighted flipper buttons. Big fan of those as you can tell. Have them on Star Trek too! And yes that is a Tron cocktail arcade.

I have the green flipper buttons too, they look really sharp.

#1533 2 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Can you put white leds in with the green leds so that when I fix your game I can make it switch back and forth between the two colors.

That would be cool but no. I'll check that plug today, I keep forgetting.

#1534 2 days ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

That would be cool but no.

I know you can do it!!

#1535 7 hours ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I know you can do it!!

Nope, there's only so much physical space to work with.

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