(Topic ID: 302936)

Space Shuttle switch issue. Outhole.

By Ejb2000

2 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Ejb2000
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Hello,

I am restoring a space shuttle pin. I’ve just completed the playfield swap, and every switch and coil was working fine. I was fine tuning things with the playfield still on my rotisserie. I decided to change the outhole switch as the arm was loose. I soldered the wires just like they were on the old switch. At least I thought I did. When I powered up the game, it was not starting a game. I went into test mode to test the switches, I did not see the outhole switch, or many on the lower playfield. Then I noticed that bad electrical smell. Ugh. Then transistor q48 burst in flames. I quickly shut it off. Here’s a pic of how I wired my new switch:

Does it look like I wired it wrong? Can anyone help explain what I did wrong here?

Q48 is the driver transistor for the ball kick out. My guess is I wired it wrong, and it kept getting a signal to power that transistor, and just overloaded? But the outhole/ball start coil, the one that kicks the ball out, never fired. And the coil was not hot to the touch. I touched all the coils after the flame out, and none of them were hot.

Also, It blew one of the fuses on the power board as well.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks,

Erik

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#2 2 years ago

The white/brown and green/red wires are fine. These are your switch row and column wires respectively. There are 2 green/red because the column wire "daisy chains" to the next switch. The oddball is the yellow wire. What's the other end of that attached to? Only switch matrix wires should be connected to switch matrix switches, these are a low voltage digital signal wire. If you ever short any of these (even accidentally coming across them with a tool like a screwdriver) to a power wire such as for solenoids, and the game is on, you will likely blow up the switch matrix - like you did.

#3 2 years ago

Hard to tell in your pic, but did you solder a coil wire to your switch too?

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#4 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The white/brown and green/red wires are fine. These are your switch row and column wires respectively. There are 2 green/red because the column wire "daisy chains" to the next switch. The oddball is the yellow wire. What's the other end of that attached to? Only switch matrix wires should be connected to switch matrix switches, these are a low voltage digital signal wire. If you ever short any of these (even accidentally coming across them with a tool like a screwdriver) to a power wire such as for solenoids, and the game is on, you will likely blow up the switch matrix - like you did.

Thanks for the reply. I think it was wired wrong to begin with, but still somehow worked? The outhole switch was daisy chained to one of the ball through switches. Here’s a pic of it on the old playfield:

Thanks for explaining why some switches have 2 wires, I still have a lot to learn. I’ll test the switch matrix at the mpu after work, I’m sure it’s fried, along with that coil transistor. Thanks.

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#5 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The white/brown and green/red wires are fine. These are your switch row and column wires respectively. There are 2 green/red because the column wire "daisy chains" to the next switch. The oddball is the yellow wire. What's the other end of that attached to? Only switch matrix wires should be connected to switch matrix switches, these are a low voltage digital signal wire. If you ever short any of these (even accidentally coming across them with a tool like a screwdriver) to a power wire such as for solenoids, and the game is on, you will likely blow up the switch matrix - like you did.

I saw my error just as I pushed send. I wired the Daisy chain wire to the wrong switch. Doh! Was looking at it backwards.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Ejb2000:

I saw my error just as I pushed send. I wired the Daisy chain wire to the wrong switch. Doh! Was looking at it backwards.

No. Still confused.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Ejb2000:

No. Still confused.

Looks like it was wired wrong to begin with, but still worked.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Ejb2000:

Looks like it was wired wrong to begin with, but still worked.

If it was wired incorrectly, it would not work correctly. Here is a copy of a section of the switch matrix table pertaining to your trouble area. It looks like your game was rewired with yellow insulated wire as a sub for the green/red column wire, which goes to one side of the outhole, each of the ramp switches, etc. It's ok to leave it as yellow wire, but I would recommend to tag the wire with something, like a tape label with the colors they are *supposed* to be, so that you can keep it straight and make it easier for troubleshooting. Each of those switches will then have a white wire with some color stripe on it going to the other side of that switch (refer to switch matrix diagram)with diode between the row wire and switch with its cathode side attached to the switch.

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#9 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

If it was wired incorrectly, it would not work correctly. Here is a copy of a section of the switch matrix table pertaining to your trouble area. It looks like your game was rewired with yellow insulated wire as a sub for the green/red column wire, which goes to one side of the outhole, each of the ramp switches, etc. It's ok to leave it as yellow wire, but I would recommend to tag the wire with something, like a tape label with the colors they are *supposed* to be, so that you can keep it straight and make it easier for troubleshooting. Each of those switches will then have a white wire with some color stripe on it going to the other side of that switch (refer to switch matrix diagram)with diode between the row wire and switch with its cathode side attached to the switch.
[quoted image]

So that yellow wire that is connected wrong. Does that get connected to the ball through switch above it? Where the green wire is?

#10 2 years ago

Trying to get my bearings on what's going on here on your playfield, please bear with me. Your white/X stripe row wires all appear to go to a playfield lug with the diode connected between the lug and the switch, except in the pic attached I can't quite see where the diode is.

The green column wires then can go from the other switch terminals for each switch in that column - in this case green with red stripe. At some point with the absence of having extra properly color coded green/red wire, the chain can continue with yellow wire subbing for green/red for all the switches in column 2 of the switch matrix chart.

It doesn't matter what order you daisy chain, as long as no switches have the exact same grreen/X and white/X wire

Hope that helps.

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#11 2 years ago

Williams often use those yellow wires as local jumpers in their daisy chaining.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Trying to get my bearings on what's going on here on your playfield, please bear with me. Your white/X stripe row wires all appear to go to a playfield lug with the diode connected between the lug and the switch, except in the pic attached I can't quite see where the diode is.
The green column wires then can go from the other switch terminals for each switch in that column - in this case green with red stripe. At some point with the absence of having extra properly color coded green/red wire, the chain can continue with yellow wire subbing for green/red for all the switches in column 2 of the switch matrix chart.
It doesn't matter what order you daisy chain, as long as no switches have the exact same grreen/X and white/X wire
Hope that helps.
[quoted image]

Thanks. I tested the switch matrix, and it’s toasted. Taking it to a repair guy tomorrow. By looking at other wiring online and the pics of it on the old playfield, I think I had the wiring correct. I think I may of touched white/x side with my weinch. Or hit the diodes on the through switches that I left exposed and hanging there while I was adjusting and screwing in the outhole that I changed. doh!

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#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Ejb2000:

Thanks. I tested the switch matrix, and it’s toasted. Taking it to a repair guy tomorrow. By looking at other wiring online and the pics of it on the old playfield, I think I had the wiring correct. I think I may of touched white/x side with my weinch. Or hit the diodes on the through switches that I left exposed and hanging there while I was adjusting and screwing in the outhole that I changed. doh!
[quoted image]

So my concern is I get the board fixed, plug it in, and it does it again. Thanks for all your help.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Ejb2000:

So my concern is I get the board fixed, plug it in, and it does it again. Thanks for all your help.

You have to go through every connection. Point to point. Not only verifying the correct wires, but also nothing is touching something it shouldn't. Check all the switch diodes (if something is wrong with them, that usually won't damage the switch matrix, but make sure they are not touching something else. Preferably install these in clear plastic tubing. )

Check for frayed wire connections. Look for other wires broken or dangling that could touch the switch matrix wires or components. Etc.

When a playfield simply doesn't work and it is original, not swapped, 99% of it is not going to be a problem, simply because most of it is where it was when manufactured. When you swap out and move everything, you disturb the integrity of the original manufacturing and introduce opportunity for error.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

You have to go through every connection. Point to point. Not only verifying the correct wires, but also nothing is touching something it shouldn't. Check all the switch diodes (if something is wrong with them, that usually won't damage the switch matrix, but make sure they are not touching something else. Preferably install these in clear plastic tubing. )
Check for frayed wire connections. Look for other wires broken or dangling that could touch the switch matrix wires or components. Etc.
When a playfield simply doesn't work and it is original, not swapped, 99% of it is not going to be a problem, simply because most of it is where it was when manufactured. When you swap out and move everything, you disturb the integrity of the original manufacturing and introduce opportunity for error.

I’m getting my board repaired. I’ll check all the diodes. I’m pretty sure the one in the pic is the culprit. Thanks for your time!

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