(Topic ID: 106693)

Space Shuttle rehab by newbie... oh noes

By goingincirclez

9 years ago


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  • 81 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by KillerQ
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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There are 81 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 9 years ago

The volume control through the coin door is great - totally reversible, and very handy. I put the external volume knob for my Black Knight on the bottom of the cabinet, but that location sucks when it's time to transport the game.

#52 9 years ago

I've considered bottom of cab volume knob moves on all my games. Makes sense, and if you use a 1/2 watt pot with a small shaft, it won't break if you have to move it.

#53 9 years ago

I bent my shaft. Guess I'll just leave that out there.

#54 9 years ago
Quoted from Aeolus7:

I think the dot fade is beyond my skill level, but I could definitely focus on other more obvious, solid color areas.

Depending on the size of the area you need to fix, you could possibly spot-dot the matrix where needed, or use a decal of the overlay color (dots) over the base color... or a decal of the entire area (both colors). Just depends on what you're going for. (If you haven't seen Vid's Playfield Guide, check it out...)

Quoted from Quiddity:

I'm so glad that I've remembered to keep up with this thread.

I'm just glad people are actually reading AND enjoying it... I hope!

Quoted from swampfire:

I put the external volume knob for my Black Knight on the bottom of the cabinet, but that location sucks when it's time to transport the game.

I like the idea of a hidden yet accessible knob, but in my case I decided to make an existing void useful.

Anyone have any idea what that might have been for, anyway? I assume it has something to do with its route days...

Quoted from swampfire:

I bent my shaft. Guess I'll just leave that out there.

BB_01.jpgBB_01.jpg

#55 9 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Anyone have any idea what that might have been for, anyway? I assume it has something to do with its route days...

A locking bar that sometimes deterred theft.

#56 9 years ago

Lockbar holes are "patina" - you heard it here first!!!

#57 9 years ago

Wow, you did all this in a month?? Makes my Taxi project absolutely horrible time wise................been since August and all I've done is gotten the head back on, stripped some of the pf and started magic erasing, cleaning....still need to rebuild pops, flippers, and, and......I'm not even going to clear it....grooaaannnn!!!

Great job!!!

#58 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Wow, you did all this in a month??

Uhh... this sort of became an obsession... which I amped into a personal challenge owing to time and space constraints. I can't say it's been easy, and I pretty much ignored my other interests in the last month. I'd rather take my time, and for my next project I fully intend to do so. So - don't be ashamed! It's supposed to be fun so if you're making progress that's all that matters.

OK... since my previous update, I had to spend my posting time on various S.O.S. troubleshooting threads... which I fully expected would be the case when I got everything back together. No biggie. Well, mostly no biggie...

The Moment of Truth

So when I left off, I was ready to install the LEDs which I figured would be sensible to do before switching the machine - with my still-unproven rebuilt boards - back on the first time. After all, let's keep the current draw as low as possible, right? Right. So after peppering every socket with an assortment of shiny frosted comet LEDs, and making sure I had no stray screws or wires and whatnot, I plugged it in, turned it on, and...

313106-i.jpg313106-i.jpg

AAAAAARRRRGH THE GOGGLES THEY DO NOTHING HOLY CRAP THAT'S BRIGHT!

But at least nothing's smoking - Maybe I figured out this soldering thing after all!

And whoa, check out those new LED ring caps on the pup bumpers...

Also, does a shuttle need thrusters?  Of course it does.   My gray wing edges look pretty good too.Also, does a shuttle need thrusters? Of course it does. My gray wing edges look pretty good too.

Oh wait, they should be lit...

Bad potato.  I really need a new cell phone.Bad potato. I really need a new cell phone.

I was beyond happy that I didn't mess up my boards. I could tell the plasma displays were dimmer as desired, but still plenty bright which hopefully means I'll get a long life out of them - those displays are a big part of this machine's charm to me. The LEDs are bright and the clean, shiny plastics and playfield looked GREAT.

Of course, looks aren't everything...

TESTING

To make sure I hadn't accidentally broken or made anything worse, I ran the coinbox diagnostics to compare to the pre-teardown results.

Everything was more or less the same - which meant it wasn't worse. I already posted in the Crew Lounge in search of specific advice... so I'll copy the rundown (and solutions) back here:

1) One pop bumper does not light; connections, continuity and diodes test good... I'd checked the bulb *socket*, but not the bulb (LED ring cap) itself, duh! After doing that, it works. You can adjust them and that one was turned "off". Yay, simple!.

2) Another pop bumper does not fire. Mechanically, switch is fine and connected well. I suspect a transistor. Oddly enough, the seller pointed this out and I got it working when I got it home, but now it's out again)... We'll come back to this. Oh, yes. The fun was just beginning.

3) U|S|A lane switches seem flaky. Physical switches are good; they register but you have to "hold" them...They worked better after cleaning them with a fiber business card; I also replaced the flaky transistor in this part of the matrix

4) I rebuilt both flippers with a kit and the right one works great! The left one seems to "bounce" or "pulse" or "fire twice". EOS set the same as the right.... Double-checked my solder connection where I added a cap (from the kit): just wee bit wiggly. No more, and no more stuttering.

5) Left sling switches did not register their numbers on the diag test, BUT they do cause the kicker to fire as they should...? What a weird symptom! I'd have thought they wouldn't work at all, but cleaning the switch contacts makes them register scores.

6) After running attract mode for a while, the white bonus grid lights started getting wonky - instead of spelling "SPACE SHUTTLE" they began getting kind of random...? OK, I'm almost wondering if I "imagined" that they worked the first time with the LEDs installed, because apparently with LEDs this area almost never works. But I know I didn't imagine it, because I pointed it out to my wife.

But it's still just random patterns and flickering (you can see the "intent" for the proper bulbs to light), even after switching back to bulbs in this area... but it seems all the other pf LEDs could cause this too? Can anyone recommend a solution: do I get no-ghost bulbs, or should I wait for the LEDOCD kits to come available again? OR, since it worked for a the first few minutes, do I have some other problem?

7) The 3-drop target bank does not reset. It had this problem before, so I inspected and thoroughly cleaned the unit, and it is super smooth by hand. The coil fires, but doesn't push the targets up. The coil seemed OK during the rebuild (sleeve was not binding but I replaced it anyway, coil not scorched, etc). I've been advised this might be normal, and they would work during a game. I was also told there could be a spring missing, but don't see one in the parts list, and don't see why one would be necessary....?

8] Bell does not work at all. Come to think of it, it didn't before either. Got a photo below that proved mine was a bit mangled, probably by a PO trying to shut it up. Aligned everything to match the photo and DING!

9) Still a bit of high-pitched static in the backbox speaker, that changes depending on the # of pf lamps illuminated. I've cleaned and grounded everything... Apparently some noise here is typical, and after re-routing the speaker wires in the backbox, away from the GI and other power wires, it's actually really quiet... almost silent until nearly every lamp is on. I can live with that.

So, I'm still looking for answers on the Bonus Grid spellout pattern going haywire, and the 3-bank drop target resetting, if anyone can chime in.

As for problem #2 - aka the Pop Bumper from Hell and the likely reason the PO parted with the machine...

***TROLLED by a Diode (and friends)!***

"It's just a pop bumper", she said. "I can fix that", I said. "It'll be FUN!", nobody said.

Well, it was straightforward enough, and gave me incentive to use those AWESOME ring LEDs besides. And Vid's Pop Bumper repair guide, like all his tomes of wisodm, was very useful.

And unlike the seller, who seemed convinced the problem was "just a switch", I did mange to determine some transistors on the MPU were also suspect.

What I didn't know, was the extent of the cause-effect feedback loop I would have to deduce, find, break, and repair, systematically, piece by piece, because I literally did not know any better. But sometimes the way I learn best, is by doing...

It eventually revealed a bad, reveresed diode on the coil, that took out other things, and revealed other hack / backwards parts the PO had installed.

The sordid adventure is detailed here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/trolled-by-a-diode-please-help-sys9-space-shuttle

In the end, I think I've got it working, or wanting to work - it was running and stable last night, which caused some joyous midnight commotion! But it's still a little flaky so I'm not completely done yet. Again, any insight would be appreciated!

But I'm feeling confident enough that the home stretch is here, that I finally installed the backglass for a photo:

So close... so close...So close... so close...

#59 9 years ago

Came out gorgeous. I love leds on these older pins. They give them life it seems.

Just keep working away on your list of crap to fix. There is always a list after a shopping..

#60 9 years ago

Beautiful. Great job!

#61 9 years ago

When you first get an old game working, a bunch of stuff will break in the first month.

But that tapers off after a while and then you can actually play a few games on it without problems.

#62 9 years ago

I had to fudge my drop springs on the drop targets because over time, they had become stretched out. They wouldn't go down all the way, completely opposite of what you're seeing. Perhaps you have springs that are too tight and the coil can't push them up? Unlikely, but something to think about.

If you need pictures of the assembly, I can provide. I'll have my game open this weekend to adjust the pop bumpers that I just rebuilt. One is not popping far enough down, one needs a cup adjustment.

#63 9 years ago

It sounds like the LEDs are creating more problems than they're solving.

#64 9 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I bent my shaft. Guess I'll just leave that out there.

I bent my wookie!

SXUYKxf.jpgSXUYKxf.jpg

#65 9 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

It sounds like the LEDs are creating more problems than they're solving.

Actually I have identified a lamp row issue, pretty well masked as it were. I have one that is solid on, and two others that are whole-row but "flaky". Haven't ID'd any column issues. Have another GPE order en route. Hopefully the 3rd time is the charm...

Kids and wife have been having a blast though. At least they don't know any better - I see all the stuff that was broke, and I fixed, and have yet to fix, and I can't help being distracted by it!

#66 9 years ago

Well, I was really hopeful that today could have been a triumphant "It's DONE!" post, but... disaster has struck in troubleshooting the lamp row issue, and the machine is unplayable until I figure out what happened. Maybe I got too self-sure since I'd done so much board work with no issues, but yesterday things cooked in a bad way. I don't think I did anything "wrong" per se, but it's a full-stop regroup scenario will I figure out what to do next, and how.

So maybe to motivate myself to figure that - er, I mean get the rest o' ya's to motivate me again - I'll settle for sharing the vid from last Saturday morning when my two girls discovered it functioning and playable for the first time...

...Yes, the controlled lamps were all wrong, which is what has me in my current predicament. BUT I did solve that pop bumper issue, and the flippers worked great, and the machine looks amazing now. Obviously I could adjust the angle for faster play, but that would come in time. It already came a long way before I screwed it up.

...Has anybody ever rebuilt an entire lamp matrix before....?

#67 9 years ago

It looks great so far. You're doing an amazing job.

1 week later
#68 9 years ago

Well, my lamp row troubleshooting was unsuccessful. Ed Cheung endorsed my working theory beforehand, but it went up in smoke (literally!) so he's agreed to take a look and help out. I guess I should take consolation that since I ultimately had resort to a pro, he might find and address other issues I don't even know about (or am equipped to fix) and maybe I'll get a nice bulletproof board back.

I'd really just settle for being told it wasn't my fault, all things considered. But it's a learning experience either way.

Meanwhile, does anyone have any experience hunting and chasing shorts in PF lamp wiring? All the obvious visuals look good - no crossed or frayed wires, touching terminals and sockets, etc. I just want a methodical approach to go through the PF while the board is out for service. I can't say it's obvious to me where I should probe a meter in the connectors ends... well it seems obvious, but maybe too simple...?

Failing that, I went ahead and staged the room a little bit with some of our memorabilia from the final shuttle launch:

20141124_164740.jpg20141124_164740.jpg

I'm super tickled that my oldest daughter posted her / our own "high score board" under the photos and cited the wall at the PO's house. Unfortunately I'm the only one without a score on it!

The large stickers on the coin door are scans of the official commemorative patches NASA issued for STS-135. In making these, I discovered that our new inkjet printer's photo quality is utterly abysmal, so I had them redone at Office Depot... the 65 cents they charged was probably cheaper than the inkjet, and they look great! I'll swap them later. I have a few other neat things to install also but want to wait until it's fully functional.

AND in a little better news, my source for the speaker panel project, has begun working on a smaller side concept I added in. I got pics of the first test run last Friday. The upper arc somehow got whacked in a file conversion, but will be added back (along with a couple other tweaks)...

ShutInsert-869.pngShutInsert-869.png

1 month later
#69 9 years ago

Well, it's been a while. Merry Holimas Insanity and day job certifications will do that to a guy... OTOH I'm sure the rest o' ya's enjoyed the break

But it's all for the better as for the last several days, we've been putting the Shuttle Defender through its paces and, it truly does merit the oft-abused word: AWESOME.

On my last update here and in a couple other threads, I mentioned problems with the pf lighting that pointed to stuck rows and/or LED sensitivity. Ed Cheung vetted some working theories but when they didn't pan out, I sent him the board. And the verdict was:

- Earlier I joked that while I was worried I might have cooked the MOSFETs for the matrix columns, all the other components I installed were fine, and the MOSFETS at least tested all the same. Well. Ahem. They were all the same because I guess I did indeed cook them all? Sigh. BUT...!

- Ed conceded that after replacing the MOSFETS (and row transistors I suspected), he was still getting some really weird behaviors and symptoms. He said he traced the issues to a short "in the board itself"... in my defense, not something I would have found from the sound of it. He got it fixed and with the good prognosis, I put some finishing touches on the playfield:

The data card is a custom that was shared in the Crew Lounge a year ago.  I put an enamel NASA Shuttle Commemorative pin over the shooter lane - the image has an apropos "blasting off" look to itThe data card is a custom that was shared in the Crew Lounge a year ago. I put an enamel NASA Shuttle Commemorative pin over the shooter lane - the image has an apropos "blasting off" look to it

Somehow, at some point in this machine's history, it ended up short a single wood-screw acorn nut post.  To hide the gap, I placed the STS 135 pin over it, since that's the launch we saw.  If I get a post screw I will move the pin, but I think it's a nice touch in any location.
That said, does anyone have a spare post screw?Somehow, at some point in this machine's history, it ended up short a single wood-screw acorn nut post. To hide the gap, I placed the STS 135 pin over it, since that's the launch we saw. If I get a post screw I will move the pin, but I think it's a nice touch in any location. That said, does anyone have a spare post screw?

I loved this custom Free Play card... but I also wanted an instruction card to match the custom aesthetic.   So I asked for permission to modify the card, and simply added and formatted the original Williams instruction text to fit.  To me, it looks great.I loved this custom Free Play card... but I also wanted an instruction card to match the custom aesthetic. So I asked for permission to modify the card, and simply added and formatted the original Williams instruction text to fit. To me, it looks great.

Hoping and praying it wouldn't somehow jinx things, I took a leap of faith and performed the restoration bit I was saving for the very last: I installed a brand-new, shiny, OEM center ("T") drop target decal.

Just before Christmas I got my board back from Ed, installed it, and played a few quick rounds... Talk about setting an itch - it worked great! Unfortunately it was time to head out for several days' worth of holiday hijinks... but at least I had a video to show everyone.

So anyway, back home for Christmas, we've got the bug hard. I dressed up the area for presentations' sake, downloaded the Pinball 101 video on my new tablet, and we set to work breaking it in and dialing in the bugs. Many many dozens - maybe even a couple hundred - of games in, things have been mostly fine. Had to tweak a few switches for better / consistent scoring but that's to be expected, right? The only issue I seem to have is after extended play times - say 25 minutes or more - the GI starts to flicker a bit with coil strikes. I'd like to know where to look.

But several friends and family have had a blast over the holidays, even the pizza guy wanted to come in for a play. I think I ruined my brother's Christmas when he couldn't get onto the top 4 board... he was sucked in for cumulative hours, it seemed. Early on my dad jumped in for his one quick play, and beat my bro's best score to that point. I never knew my dad had a potential knack for pinball. Then again, he seemed to have an irrational affection for the lousy Intellivision Pinball game back in the day.

Speaking of my dad, he also gave me my Christmas presents. If you recall way early on, my concepts for the speaker panels? Well, he's the one who had to make them for me. There were some issues with getting the CNC machine he runs to accept the artwork files I converted, but HOLY SWEET MERCIFUL NEWBORN SAVIOR they look WAAAAAAAAY better than I imagined - and I don't often get to say that!

This is the version that members suggested I make, with two shuttle logos.  Not bad...  but my least favorite of the three.   Still, that panel really looks amazing in place of that plain black void, no?
This shot shows the pin in its living room home.   Some photos and memorabilia from our trip, some old Shuttle toys I mounted (one as a "topper"), and a custom Guest Pilots Scoring Log on the wall edge tie it together with a finger painting my youngest did when she was 4.This is the version that members suggested I make, with two shuttle logos. Not bad... but my least favorite of the three. Still, that panel really looks amazing in place of that plain black void, no? This shot shows the pin in its living room home. Some photos and memorabilia from our trip, some old Shuttle toys I mounted (one as a "topper", and a custom Guest Pilots Scoring Log on the wall edge tie it together with a finger painting my youngest did when she was 4.

Here's a version with both the Williams corporate and Shuttle logos.   In the concept phase, this was my personal favorite.    Shown here with the lights on, you can see the brushed stainless catches the pf lighting in a neat reflection.   BUT it doesn't reflect itself into the glass - a modern DMD does worse IMOHere's a version with both the Williams corporate and Shuttle logos. In the concept phase, this was my personal favorite. Shown here with the lights on, you can see the brushed stainless catches the pf lighting in a neat reflection. BUT it doesn't reflect itself into the glass - a modern DMD does worse IMO

And offering a classic look, as the machine might have appeared had Williams released it a few years later, is this version with two Williams logos flanking the center panel.   I didn't think I would originally, but I like this one the best.And offering a classic look, as the machine might have appeared had Williams released it a few years later, is this version with two Williams logos flanking the center panel. I didn't think I would originally, but I like this one the best.

And so now with dozens of games under my belt, I'm working on my skills and trying to get consistent scores. It's amazing how you can totally rock one set of balls, and get utterly mauled the next. But I'm making progress. Still need to dial in a couple more things, and the GI flicker has me concerned, but damn - this machine is a ton of fun to play!

What a journey it's been... I look forward to the next...!

#70 9 years ago

Great job! Love the custom backbox panel!!!

You're enthusiasm shines through these last few posts.

#71 9 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Has anybody ever rebuilt an entire lamp matrix before....?

Um...technically I did when I did my playfield swap on Shuttle, I guess..

I cut every wire to every socket and mech when removing stuff, and then put it all back when I moved over to the CPR playfield and re-soldered everything. I didn't build a whole new wire harness if that's what you're asking. I did have one socket wired backwards, was actually one of the very last four or five on the harness that I soldered, that caused a few weeks worth of headaches with lamp matrix issues.

#72 9 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

he GI starts to flicker a bit with coil strikes. I'd like to know where to look.

You can pretty much forget about trying to fix this. It happens even on 90's games and new Sterns..maybe to a lesser degree. If you REALLY want to dive into it the GI connector is a big yellow pigtail in the head, far right side on the power board, bottom right side of that board. Be prepared to cry when you see it, because it's probably black and charred, and if you're super lucky the big molex connector will look like it took a bath in artifical tanner...

Even if you go in there and reflow those toasted joints, replace the molex housings, and use brand new high current pins.....what you're describing will still happen. The power supplies on these games just aren't designed to deal with the issue. It's FAR more noticeable with LED GI too, IMO.

#73 9 years ago

Frax, that's good to know. I've seen enough other references and gripes about the same/similar issues here to know I'm not alone... I'm mainly concerned with identifying if it's a "defect" or a "character trait", or something I should be concerned with fixing, will it get worse, etc.

You're right about the GI connector, it was pretty well basted when I got the machine but I cleaned it up some and it works fine with no issues... we only started noticing flicker after several extended sessions, but it seems to go away (for now) after the machine is turned off a while... only returning after more extended play. I was hoping since I redid the power supply board with new caps and transistors, and did the zener mod to lower the display voltages, that things would be better. I though using LEDs would also help since they draw less current.

Sounds like a (hopefully typical?) warm-up / loose connection issue. I suppose the next time it happens I should open the bb and see where all the heat is, and start there....?

#74 9 years ago

man, i really like what you did with the speaker panel, i'd really like to have one, if you don't keep the panel with the shuttles or anyone or if you can make more, i'll take it.

and love what you did with the score card, they look great

1 week later
#75 9 years ago

This whole thread

#76 9 years ago

As one of those who cut his pinball teeth on a space shuttle, I salute you and your work.

1 month later
#77 9 years ago

Sorry to resurrect my old thread, but as it happens I've directed many interested non-pinheads to it, and I realized there was one amusing photo I never got around to taking or posting, which lends a little perspective:

PinParts.jpgPinParts.jpg

^All the old effluvia from the machine: pops, flippers, sleeves, bulbs, rubbers, trannys, diodes, caps, etc... kind of an interesting pile! Like a phoenix shedding the old in order to rise, so it had to be. But it was fun.

Happily, approaching some 3 months in, I'm super stoked to report the machine's been solid and wholly enjoyed by all, practically daily. Had one marathon party night where it was played for 7 hours straight and never missed a beat in that time. Of course there's been the random switch cleaning and stuck spinner and such issue from time to time, but so far so awesome! I'm gradually honing my own skills and while I haven't mastered this machine for routine, I've had a few solid runs and get pretty antsy knowing I can do better. I absolutely LOVE when the airlock closes, and I rip a backhand up the spinner lane that strafes all 3 drops to open it again... not saying I achieve that every time (or even 20% of the time) but man what a rush!

If only I could get the nudging thing down. I'm not sure the machine is set up properly for it but in the meanwhile, there's plenty else to me to hone in on and improve as a player. Or at least to be consistent. After the Louisville Arcade Expo, that much is clear!

Also clear: I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, but there's an itch forming... it needs a sibling... ya'll warned that would happen...

#78 9 years ago

Ah yes, the old parts pile! I'm revamping a Taxi, and have a similar pile of pf parts and coils/sleeves that need replacing. I decided to inspect/clean ALL the coils and mechs and have found quite a few that need replacing.
Once I get everything re-assembled I'm considering having a priest bless the machine before turning it on!! Don't know how many errors I'll be encountering once the "on" switch is flipped.

#79 9 years ago

Ah, The Great Turn-On was by certainly one of the most nerve-wracking moments I'd ever endured. The machine hadn't been powered on since the seller demo'd it, and in the interim I'd torn everything apart, including a rebuild of the power supply board and MPU work... and I'd never really touched a pinball before. It could have gone so horribly KAPOW. What an esteem-building sigh of relief when it came to life without a release of flame or magic smoke!*

*(magic smoke did emit eventually as I dug sufficiently further for other issues to reveal themselves... but as everyone learns, that comes with the territory...!)

Just take it one step at a time... read, re-read, check, recheck... and ask all you can. Your meter is your friend so know it well. Ultimately I learned more from this project than I expected to (and I knew a fair bit going into it), so don't be ashamed of the honest learning goof. The pros have all been there.

But if you have one, a priest on standby certainly couldn't hurt. For the record, the local fire department has a station right behind my house so I subconsciously had a backup plan as well

#80 9 years ago

Gotcha! I have a Multi-meter just purchased, that's my next thing to learn how to use!!!

I'll hope for the absence of flame or smoke!

1 year later
#81 7 years ago

Time to bring this thread back from the dead!

I'm very close to getting my first machine .... A SPACE SHUTTLE pin... This thread is excellent, and oddly thereputic.

Thanks for the detail!

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