(Topic ID: 177983)

Space Shuttle - New Prototype Playfield Product - HardTop


By comment23

3 years ago



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  • 164 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Outsidedge
  • Topic is favorited by 71 Pinsiders

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There are 164 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 3 years ago

Wow what a great and exciting product! Looking forward to seeing them in action more regularly. Those Space shuttles look great, and OP I am excited to see how yours turns out as well!

#52 3 years ago

Wish had a space shuttle to test one for you one would put on overlay then set machine up at local pinball joint and let them play it to death for a few months be on 6 to 8 hours and get played a good part of the time. If it survived that see if one could be in a pin league play. Now as for as the overlays do you have to change all lighting to led or can you stick with good old 47's and 44?

#53 3 years ago

Looking forward to next update, and to which titles your going to do

#54 3 years ago

SPACE STATION.

So many messed up inserts on most examples, and System11 mylar to add injury to insult. This title isn't loved enough to get the CPR treatment, but this product could be promising...!

...and you could even add some art under the ramp to go with freeplay40 's new clear ramps that have been very popular too.

#55 3 years ago

How is the art printed on these? Inkjet or some other CMYK process? Or silkscreen/spot color?

#56 3 years ago

Would love to try one of these out on my Space Shuttle? When will they be available?

Thanks

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from cp1610:

Wish had a space shuttle to test one for you one would put on overlay then set machine up at local pinball joint and let them play it to death for a few months be on 6 to 8 hours and get played a good part of the time. If it survived that see if one could be in a pin league play. Now as for as the overlays do you have to change all lighting to led or can you stick with good old 47's and 44?

Lighting is purely up to you. Stock lighting should look the same as it did originally.

Thanks for the question

#58 3 years ago
Quoted from andre060:

How is the art printed on these? Inkjet or some other CMYK process? Or silkscreen/spot color?

The answer to that question will vary title to title, as we can accomplish either method of printing in house. Space Shuttle(mainly due to the color palette being achievable through a 6 color press) has been printed digitally, including the white. That will not always be the case... think spot colors like seen on Dr. Dude and such... NOT achievable digitally. Screen.... those would be.

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from jjoravec:

Would love to try one of these out on my Space Shuttle? When will they be available?
Thanks

Soon! Testing will be complete very soon (possibly next week). Then it will be another month or so to produce... then BAM!... ready to ship I will post information soon, and ultimately PPS and pinballgifts.com will have them listed for online ordering.

#60 3 years ago

Application time!!

First, let's talk about final prep:

I used Naphtha to wipe down the entire playfield. After evaporation and drying occurred, I used a tack cloth to remove any final dust from the playfield, then laid the hardtop on top of the playfield.

Then out came the perfectionist in me. I spent a good 30 minutes attempting to get the best lineup of holes. I started shoot some video before I realized I wasn't lined up accordingly:

In the video, you'll see a couple things I have already done. I used a center piece of painter's tape to hold the hardtop in place. Then I decided which side I wanted to affix first. I chose the upper level of the playfield. Therefore, I "locked in" the bottom of the hardtop wouldn't pivot in the center.

Once locked in the process you'll see below is followed:

1. Pull the hardtop back to center.
2. Peel off the 3M adhesive protector.
3. Cut the 3m adhesive protector off with SHARP scissors (not jagged edges or tears here or you'll make life difficult).
4. Apply to playfield and use firm pressure to stick down. Try to work the hardtop from the middle -> out when pressing.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Before following this process, do a test run to confirm all switches can make it through the holes. I found that I had one switch that was angled in a way that cause the hardtop to catch. I dropped that one through the playfield.

Video in action on the top application:

(as you can see, my wife is thrilled to be on camera)

Now, here's the bottom side. I removed all the painter's tape as it's no longer needed:

Now for the last part, I remove the top layer that is protecting the surface in travel/handling. One thing that I will note here is that it may be best to do this step prior to application so you can confirm your inserts are lined up appropriately. Luckily, I nailed getting mine based on the holes alone:

WATCH THE MAGIC UNFOLD BEFORE YOUR EYES!

Here's some close up shots:

shot2 (resized).jpg

shot1 (resized).jpg

Now, it's time to start to put this thing back together. Outside Edge had told me that this beta had a couple of missing holes that were not cut out, and this was already fixed. Therefore, I did have to do some drilling/dremel work for some holes. Also, it's important to note that some holes needed to be a little larger due differences in the playfields. So, after application there is going to be an on-going set of time where the hardtop may be sanded back a couple of millimeters to get the screw to hit the hole. I don't see this as a big deal as it's pretty easy and almost invisible once it is completed.

Another important step to take is that many of your leaf switches will need to be adjusted due to accommodate the new thickness of the hardtop. I used this adjustment tool from Pinball Life which worked great: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518

While I had the machine tore down to this level, I always rebuild pop bumpers. I especially found these plastic spoons a little rough:

popspoons (resized).jpg

I solder back on the ramp target switch and the outhole kicker solenoid as well and took the playfield back downstairs into my heated workshop to finish up the install.

#61 3 years ago

Did you wax the playfield before reassembly?

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Did you wax the playfield before reassembly?

I talked to Outside Edge who said waxing is fine to do. Luckily, I'm not too far into my reassembly to do so! Thanks vid!

#63 3 years ago

Looks really good! while I doubt it will be good enough for the anal restorer, it sure looks like it beats using an overlay sticker and will hopefully save a bunch of otherwise scrap pinball machines. I hope they hold up because i would love to pick up a turd space shuttle and try one out, a big thumbs up to you.

#64 3 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

I doubt it will be good enough for the anal restorer,

Not true, As I'm slowly traversing down the anal road,no pun intended or allowed thank you, I'm very excited to see options for games not in the "A" list .

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

Not true, As I'm slowly traversing down the anal road,no pun intended or allowed thank you, I'm very excited to see options for games not in the "A" list .

As someone testing, this is where I find the biggest motivation. I'm not great with restorations with it comes to painting/artwork. Therefore, if I had a title of a pin that I wanted to save, I would have the following choices:

1. Buy all the equipment, learn how to use it, practice, etc.
2. Send it to someone who would do a great job, but expensive to complete (playfield restorer) / buy a repro playfield.
3. Use a product like this.

Although, I love to have the time for #1, with two girls 3 and under, that's just not going to happen. #2 would also work, but in some cases, you're going to be in $400 - $600 for a quality restoration of a playfield. Even more depending on condition. Reproduction playifelds can also insane from a pricing perspective.

#3 makes sense for many reasons:

1. Time/effort/energy needed to input into the product.
2. Keeping a machine on a budget, yet playable.
3. Ability to "save" titles that are not in the upper tier of pinball machines.

Now, if I was restoring a TAF, AFM, IJ, CV, etc. I would probably turn to #2 depending on current condition. But if I found a completely roached TAF playfield with the mansion gone (which I saw one that still sold for $300 recently), this is a life-saver and will work well in any players condition game.

But if I am restoring a Comet, am I going to speed $800 for a new reproduction playfield for a game that's "maybe worth $1,000"? No, because financially that doesn't make sense. However, if I could get a product like this for a much cheaper price, I've saved one machine that can be playable for years to come.

#66 3 years ago

When I look for games to buy my main concern is playfield condition as long as there is no water damage, mold in the cabinet or is falling apart I am pretty happy, so I have passed on some decent deals due to fairly worn playfields and knowing how long it will take me to repair and clearcoat a playfield to my liking, I currently have a couple years worth of projects going now, I hope this works out for you so you can start offering more titles.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from crlush:

When I look for games to buy my main concern is playfield condition as long as there is no water damage, mold in the cabinet or is falling apart I am pretty happy, so I have passed on some decent deals due to fairly worn playfields and knowing how long it will take me to repair and clearcoat a playfield to my liking, I currently have a couple years worth of projects going now, I hope this works out for you so you can start offering more titles.

Being collectors ourselves... this is more common than not. This is exactly the issue we hope to play a part in solving. We hope these will revive the games that sit around (or worse, get parted out) forever with little to no value due to roached playfields in an otherwise quite complete.... and ready to revive game!

#68 3 years ago

Once these go on the market, would they be printed to order or would they be printed in runs?

#69 3 years ago

Ok, final post here as I'm wrapping up this SS install:

Here's the video of the finished hardtop installed and some (one-handed) play-testing:

Here's some final thoughts on the reassembly:

1. A mentioned in an earlier post, there's definitely some fiddling with certain holes once applied and going through reassembly. I keep a 3/32" drill bit in my drill to ever some slightly expand some holes.

2. The playfield is marvelous. I really haven't seen anything like this in terms of an "off the shelf" product except for CPR playfields.

3. Ball travel is fantastic. In the video, I only have the playfield at a 5 degree slope. I leveled the playfield up to 6.5 degrees and HOLY COW, this puppy is fast! Waxing the hardtop also made a great difference to the overall friction-less surface. I would say it's not required to wax, but it definitely helped.

4. Again, the artwork on the hardtop is really top notch. Nothing is blurry or distorted that I could find anywhere.
5. Take the time when reassembling to replace any worn out/broken parts. My pop bumpers are on a high trigger now and the game is playing great. I need new plastics for SS and a new ramp, but I was able to recondition mine as good as possible.

6. I decided to switch to Titan Pinball silicone rubbers and now I don't think I'll ever buy anything else. These things are legit.

I do want to thank Outside Edge for letting me give hardtop a beta test run. I've been able to give him feedback both on PinSide but also privately. I think he's got a great product that is going to be able to "save" a lot of titles from being parted out in the future.

I'm happy to answer any questions about my SS.

Finally, here's some closeup shots of the hardtop:
finish2 (resized).jpgfinish1 (resized).jpg

#70 3 years ago

Add Pinbot to the list?

#71 3 years ago

Thanks for posting your reviews of the product.

A few quick tips on Space Shuttle:

1. Get Cliffy's enhanced flipper frames.
2. Get your playfield up at 6.5 to 7.0 degrees, it plays much more exciting at that pitch. (You currently have it in floaty 'grandpa mode')

-mof

#72 3 years ago

Looks awesome. A literal game changer.

#73 3 years ago

I'm preparing a spare SS playfield now to use this product when it's available for purchase. Thank you comment23 for documenting your work. Many of my concerns and questions were answered through watching your videos. One question I still have, is the Space Shuttle #535 at the bottom of the playfield included on the overlay? I'm going to have a completely stripped playfield to work with and am expecting to sand down the entire surface.

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from jkroeck25:

I'm preparing a spare SS playfield now to use this product when it's available for purchase. Thank you comment23 for documenting your work. Many of my concerns and questions were answered through watching your videos. One question I still have, is the Space Shuttle #535 at the bottom of the playfield included on the overlay? I'm going to have a completely stripped playfield to work with and am expecting to sand down the entire surface.

Yes, the lettering is included!

#75 3 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Thanks for posting your reviews of the product.
A few quick tips on Space Shuttle:
1. Get Cliffy's enhanced flipper frames.
2. Get your playfield up at 6.5 to 7.0 degrees, it plays much more exciting at that pitch. (You currently have it in floaty 'grandpa mode')
-mof

Hi mof,

1. Ordered!

2. Yeah, when I moved SS into my workshop, I just threw on whatever legs I had laying around. I realized halfway into the video that I didn't setup the pitch. I'll try out the 7 degrees though!

#77 3 years ago

Great review!

I can't wait to try one of these out.

#78 3 years ago

The only thing I immediately notice is that the black on the insert lettering doesn't appear to be very opaque. Given the apparent quality of everything else, it's really a SUPER minor thing to whinge about. I'm looking forward to getting one of these so that I can find another Space Shuttle since I sold mine, and seeing future tables done also. Looks great.

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

The only thing I immediately notice is that the black on the insert lettering doesn't appear to be very opaque. Given the apparent quality of everything else, it's really a SUPER minor thing to whinge about. I'm looking forward to getting one of these so that I can find another Space Shuttle since I sold mine, and seeing future tables done also. Looks great.

Noted! We are working on an improvement there. I have an MMR with a similar issue. Although, I am with you... it's not a giant issue in my book. Nevertheless, we are working on a solution for this.

#81 3 years ago

Super job, thanks for posting this rehab.

#82 3 years ago

Just glad to see another machine saved from the trash or being parted.

#83 3 years ago

A very nice playfield thread to follow. It is nice to see innovation help owners of pinball machines keep them alive. Thanks to the OP for his efforts and posts. Thanks to the company for a great product and their efforts. Knowing about this product opens up a lot more machines to my eye that I would have just shrugged and passed by.

#84 3 years ago

Hi All,
A quick update.... I am awaiting a few parts to test. We really need to verify one more attribute for durability before we proceed. Once this is complete either this week or next... I will be starting a new thread complete with a list of approved playfields we intend to produce. We already have a donor playfield promised for Future Spa, Wizard, (unofficially) Comet and "possibly" Flash Gordon... if we get 3rd party licensing from the I.P. owners. In total, I believe we have 31 approved titles with the intention of growing that list.

Stay tuned for more "Hardtop" announcements.

#85 3 years ago
Quoted from Outsidedge:

Hi All,
A quick update.... I am awaiting a few parts to test. We really need to verify one more attribute for durability before we proceed. Once this is complete either this week or next... I will be starting a new thread complete with a list of approved playfields we intend to produce. We already have a donor playfield promised for Future Spa, Wizard, (unofficially) Comet and "possibly" Flash Gordon... if we get 3rd party licensing from the I.P. owners. In total, I believe we have 31 approved titles with the intention of growing that list.
Stay tuned for more "Hardtop" announcements.

Very cool, and I'm sorry if I missed it but is there any projected pricing for the product?

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Very cool, and I'm sorry if I missed it but is there any projected pricing for the product?

Pricing will vary a bit title by title for multiple reasons. Think roughly in the neighborhood of half the cost of a repro playfield.

Thanks!

#87 3 years ago

such an impressive amount of work!

#88 3 years ago

I have a roached Space Shuttle just south of Cleveland that would benefit from this product immensely. Let me know if you need any other somewhat nearby beta testers!!

#89 3 years ago

This looks like a great alternative to reproduction boards. I bought a SS back in the early summer and have restored it. It plays great but the playfield is extremely worn. I would be interested in trying this product when it comes to market.

#90 3 years ago

Never thought I'd see pinsiders so happy about sanding off original artwork!

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

Never thought I'd see pinsiders so happy about sanding off original artwork!

Well when the PF has already done half the work for you already! Haha!

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

Never thought I'd see pinsiders so happy about sanding off original artwork!

Being collectors ourselves, I still had a little uneasy twitch as I sanded also! However, as I pointed out early in this thread... if it is beyond saving by way of restoration or being sent to an artist..... sand away! Nothing to loose other than remnants of a once great, but now wasted playfield. I think Adam will agree that once complete.... Giggidy Giggidy!

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from Outsidedge:

Giggidy Giggidy!

Well all right!

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#94 3 years ago

Wow! Looks great. Pinbot? Gorgar? Tons of lower valued Williams titles could be helped by this product. I'd be in for both these titles as well as others.

#95 3 years ago

I am so ready to do a full restore on space shuttle. This playfield option should make the process a lot easier and get it back in the line up faster.

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from Outsidedge:

I think Adam will agree that once complete.... Giggidy Giggidy!

Definitely a cathartic response on taking a sander to a PF by far!

1 week later
#97 3 years ago

Hi Everyone,
A quick update.... The testing is under way, but as it turned out the correct equipment is in Israel. It all needed shipped (already done) over there. It will likely take a few more weeks, but it will be worth the wait to make sure the durability is what we think it is.

- Stay tuned!

#99 3 years ago

Good things come to those who wait

#100 3 years ago

So, a couple of updates now that the game is been out in my game room for a bit (including a Super Bowl party):

Gameplay:
I think the overall sentiment is that the game just "plays better." Since ball travel is more consistent, it's easier to handle the ball and scores are higher than usual on the table.

Aesthetics:
There's really no comparison here. The hardtop does a great job emphasizing the artwork but also allowing a "clear coat like" shine from the lamps on the playfield. My old overlay never did that which really flattened the feel visually.

Final Impression:
I feel like a product like this is good even when an amateur notices and spots the differences. Many of my close friends are not really into pinball, but all of them knew something was different when they played.

Although, this was a beta test for the product, I would have absolutely spent my money on this product. In fact, based on some of the (potential) upcoming titles, I may just do that. As I said in an earlier post, there are different levels of playfield restoration that one may take, I see the hardtop as in the same boat as a reproduction playfield. Unless you have severe wood damage like planking or water damage, I think this is a more cost effective approach.

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