(Topic ID: 59271)

Space Shuttle isn't in the top 100 - HOW?


By Collin

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 46 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Space_Shuttle_side_by_side.JPG

#1 7 years ago

For as many people here are talking about Space Shuttle lately (basically all saying positive things), and for as fun and historically significant as the game are, I'm shocked it's not in the top 100.

Does anyone else think that's slightly criminal?

#2 7 years ago

I would not place too much emphasis on that list. At all. It means nothing.

#3 7 years ago

it's really personal choice in the end.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

I would not place too much emphasis on that list. At all. It means nothing.

DITO I don't care what that list says....Space Shuttle is a keeper.

#5 7 years ago

All of the LE versions and Regular/Pro/Premium/Gold versions are taking up spots on the top 100 for virtually the same game in most cases

#6 7 years ago

Its on my Top 100. Space Shuttle, Sorcerer, Big Guns, F14 Tomcat, High Speed.... these all contributed highly to getting me involved in pinball. In Fact, High Speed was the game that shifted me more from video games to pins.

#7 7 years ago

It seems like a new game comes out with mixed reviews, and not many people have played it and it gets the number one spot. That list is useless. Space Shuttle is a cool game no matter what spot people put it in.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from islandpinball:

All of the LE versions and Regular/Pro/Premium/Gold versions are taking up spots on the top 100 for virtually the same game in most cases

^ this...
Nothing can be done about it. It's extremely silly.
-mof

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

It seems like a new game comes out with mixed reviews, and not many people have played it and it gets the number one spot. That list is useless. Space Shuttle is a cool game no matter what spot people put it in.

I have Space Shuttle > TOM and TAF in my ratings.
OMG No WAYYYYY !?!?!
-mof

#10 7 years ago

I know the top 100 list is mostly arbitrary, it's just shocking that a game as brilliant as Space Shuttle isn't even in the top 100, and Black Knight barely is. I'm someone who generally prefers DMDs, and even I would rather play either of those games than about 90% of DMD games ever made.

#11 7 years ago

Space Shuttle is awesome indeed. I would love to find one in great condition.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

I know the top 100 list is mostly arbitrary, it's just shocking that a game as brilliant as Space Shuttle isn't even in the top 100, and Black Knight barely is. I'm someone who generally prefers DMDs, and even I would rather play either of those games than about 90% of DMD games ever made.

I kind of have to agree. I do not own a Space Shuttle, but if I did it would get more play than most of my machines.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Mato:

it's really personal choice in the end.

I think my issue is that scores of people made personal choices that directly resulted in each game on that list being in the position it's in. Maybe the issue is that this knowledge damages my faith in humanity

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

I kind of have to agree. I do not own a Space Shuttle, but if I did it would get more play than most of my machines.

You've got a kick-ass collection; there are a few games in there that I'm jealous of. Space Shuttle is definitely appealing, though. It's actually my girlfriend's favorite pin I have.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

You've got a kick-ass collection; there are a few games in there that I'm jealous of. Space Shuttle is definitely appealing, though. It's actually my girlfriend's favorite pin I have.

Your collection is nothing to sneeze at. I wish that I had a few of those titles. Along with a Space Shuttle. LOL.

#16 7 years ago

Space Shuttle is a brilliant pin. One of my favorites. Fantastic theme brilliantly executed. Harder now to find one in good shape because they got played to shit.

#17 7 years ago

It's too easy to really deserve that high of a spot. Historical significance doesn't account for taste.

Before you jump on me, I've got one and am in the middle of a huge restore on it costing more than the machine is worth. It's a great title, but it has some issues that won't see it going higher.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

Your collection is nothing to sneeze at. I wish that I had a few of those titles. Along with a Space Shuttle. LOL.

Well, maybe you should trade me your Revenge From Mars (and live closer, so that would be feasible.)

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from islandpinball:

All of the LE versions and Regular/Pro/Premium/Gold versions are taking up spots on the top 100 for virtually the same game in most cases

This is part of the problem. Also, people need to take the time to rate it. Only a small percentage of those that own one have rated it. You can lead a horse to water.....

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from BigB:

This is part of the problem. Also, people need to take the time to rate it. Only a small percentage of those that own one have rated it. You can lead a horse to water.....

Conversely, there are plenty of ratings for games here that are probably based on a couple credits worth of play, and are useless, but are weighted the same as a rating from someone who has put in the time to get to know a game.

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Before you jump on me, I've got one and am in the middle of a huge restore on it costing more than the machine is worth. It's a great title, but it has some issues that won't see it going higher.

I have one that's restored and I turned down an offer of $2300 for it. If you restore one, they do have a higher value than you would think.

#22 7 years ago

My RFM is in excellent condition and plays perfectly so it is not going anywhere soon. As far as living closer, let me talk to the family and see what they think. If we moved into a better neighborhood and a better house in a new state, I might be open to anything. I mean about the moving to a new place, not giving up RFM. Ha Ha!

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

It's too easy to really deserve that high of a spot. Historical significance doesn't account for taste.
Before you jump on me, I've got one and am in the middle of a huge restore on it costing more than the machine is worth. It's a great title, but it has some issues that won't see it going higher.

Not jumping on you, but I think what was stated above about multiple versions of the same game is basically stupid - ridiculous - false. Granted, these "Top 100" lists should always be taken with a cubic ton of salt, but lets consider this: at least four spots on the Pinside list are taken by different versions of essentially the same game. (TAF, ACDC, MET, TRON)

Space Shuttle comes in at 120. Behind quite a few games. I too think it should be higher, but so many of the higher games are DMD and newer in general.

It's funny to look at the trend of newer games on these lists and thinking about, say, PC games on Metacritic or IGN. You just don't see 9+ games on there anymore. Most of the highest rated titles were from way back and people there seem to be ranking harder these days. Not sure if you put a measuring stick up to what the technology of the day is that you'd come up the same. It is what it is though. Now, Space Shuttle and Centaur are on my want list so who is going to help make that happen?

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from BigB:

I have one that's restored and I turned down an offer of $2300 for it. If you restore one, they do have a higher value than you would think.

Heh, for what I've dumped into it so far, I don't know if $2300 would allow me to turn a profit. Worst part - the display was working on it until I accidentally totally broke one of the score displays. I guess it had to happen with some machine sometime that I owned. But, I'm not restoring it to turn a profit. While I do think it is ridiculously easy, it is one of the machines that got me into pinball, and getting the opportunity to turn it into a perfect example was something I just couldn't let go by.

Quoted from shimoda:

Not jumping on you, but I think what was stated above about multiple versions of the same game is basically stupid - ridiculous - false. Granted, these "Top 100" lists should always be taken with a cubic ton of salt, but lets consider this: at least four spots on the Pinside list are taken by different versions of essentially the same game. (TAF, ACDC, MET, TRON)

I don't know if you were meaning to reply to me or not. While I understand what you're saying, if you took out those games, it would be probably pretty close to the top 100. It's not ranked higher because as a game, it's got some serious gameplay issues.

I'll also say that it probably isn't ranked higher because:

1) It's not a DMD game, and there are a lot of collectors that don't mess with pre-DMD era machines.

2) Until the repro parts, they were nearly impossible to find in good shape. They got A LOT of use, but it means that those people who collect minty examples would almost never even think about adding a Space Shuttle to the line up.

3) Being one of the very few System 9 machines, parts for the boards were harder to find then most because of the rarity of that boardset.

All that stuff contributes to it not being as desirable, and that keeps it out of some of the rankings. I really appreciate everything that it is, but I will fully admit that it is a machine that I don't think I would consider a top machine either.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

it's got some serious gameplay issues.

I'm interested in knowing what the serious gameplay issues are.?

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I'm interested in knowing what the serious gameplay issues are.?

If you become decent at it, the ball locks are really easy to hit, so the strategy for points is plunge ball, lock ball, plunge ball, drop target, hit ramp to start multiball and then shoot balls past the spinner to build 7X bonus and then up the ramp for points. You can also shoot the ball up the other ramp to keep switching to "Extra Ball" as the SHUTTLE reward.

If you lose a ball, catch and lock the ball and repeat.

It's a really, really simple strategy, and if you have decent ball control skills, it makes it so that you can play for a really, really, really long time. And with the ruleset being so shallow, playing that long isn't so rewarding. There isn't really anything else to shoot for.

It doesn't help that the game has the Airlock thing that saves the ball and the up post in the middle of the game.

And again, lest anyone think I'm trashing their favorite game or whatever, I really like it for what it is. I am waiting for my new tumbler to arrive tomorrow for the playfield swap that I'm in the middle of to continue. But I also realize that Shuttle will be one of the games that I have in the collection because it is a looker and something nostalgic (it's the title after Jurassic Park that I credit with getting me into pinball), not because it is a great playing machine.

#27 7 years ago

I keep hearing in these forums about games being too simple because you get good at this shot or that shot then it becomes x,y,z...x,y,z...etc. Having just got a DW, I'm still trying to get more than 3 loops on the left at a time. While I might get better over time, it'll be quite some time before I master that, then there are lots of other parts to master.

Yes, you do have the airlock that can be reset but it isn't the easiest set of drop targets in pinball. Ultimately I think a game like Space Shuttle would be a good trainer for anyone wanting to hone certain general skills. I've also found how much a good spinner shot can bring plenty of excitement (although I still think getting a Davros jackpot or lighting the jackpot on BOP and getting that sound burst are more exciting in my small collection).

I completely understand where you are coming from but also think it simplifies and ignores all the playing and enjoyment that comes from getting to that point with any pinball machine. I still really want one of these in my collection. Never played one before a few weeks ago but still think it's got more going for it that many of the DMDs above it on the list. Take Xenon, for example. I've played a pretty nice version of it, and all machines are different. My takeaway, gorgeous game, art is definitely in my Top 10. Gameplay, completing lacking compared to Space Shuttle. I can't say that the art playing overcomes the playing because when I'm playing a game, really playing it, I notice the art, but it's the gameplay I'm really watching.

#28 7 years ago

I owned one for almost 2 years, did the swap myself. Personally, I found backhanding the drops to sweep the target bank to be generally very easy. It's a great game, but eventually at some point, it had to make way for more interesting things. And frankly....the background noise can get tiresome after a few years. =\

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

I would not place too much emphasis on that list. At all. It means nothing.

Yes, agree 100%. Pinball has NOTHING to do with that list of games.

#30 7 years ago

I believe pinball was in a slump at the time it was released. It breathed new life for pinball and was a hit.

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from islandpinball:

All of the LE versions and Regular/Pro/Premium/Gold versions are taking up spots on the top 100 for virtually the same game in most cases

This is one of the MAJOR problems I actually have with the list. Now we have 3 and 4 versions of games released by stern. Does it make sense to have all 3 or 4 versions represented? NO. I really believe that AFG and TAF should NOT be different entries.

The second problem I just can't stand is when a new game is released and it jumps to the top and then immediately jumps down 20 spots, there is something wrong with the system. It is too easy to manipulate.

The single most nutty thing in the hobby of pinball is that there is this term "classic" that really means something different to everyone.

Is a classic an EM like King of Diamonds, or a great Sys 11 game like HS, or even a great DMD like TAF or TZ? If you play in "classics tournaments" the line seems to get crossed differently at every event.

For example, I've not seen a DMD game in a "classics" tournament ever. However on Pinside, a lot of pre 1986 (i.e. High Speed) games are all on the same "best SS game ever" list since Pinside's dividing line is Solid State vs. EM.

There really needs to be 3 lists:
1.>EM's
2.>SS_digit
3.>SS_dmd

Most people buying pins and talking about pins these days are primarily looking for DMD games. I don't see how you could honestly represent Eight Ball, High Speed, and Twilight Zone on the same list. There is a strong technological barrier between these games and they are each among the best in their era of pinball fame. When you lump them all together and also throw in 3 and 4 versions of Limited Ed. Stern releases, it just gets all cluttered up.

There are other small problems as well like the Black Spiderman listed on the bang for your buck list with a crazy low price just because there are two pins with the name Spiderman in them.

There are other small nit-pick type things but I am really trying to be positive here and suggest ways to fix the list and not just complain (like a politician).

#32 7 years ago

I aggree, 3 lists would represent reality much better. So who is the top 100 list for? I play DMD's whenever I get the chance but I get a bigger thrill out of early solid state. I'm sure it has something to do with my age. So solid state machines are really the only ones on my radar. And I often read the reviews at the IMPD for machines I would like to own.

In regards to spending money on Space Shuttle, I myself am doing the CPR playfield Swap Bopp on shuttle. I used to drop my play money into restoring muscle cars. Making old new again is a strange addiction. I found that they were worth only so much. But it's funny, I just sold the last one (77 T/A). Hadn't spent a dime on it in a long time and made my biggest profit. It only took me 19 years of ownership. And of course the game title is important. Gorgar, no new playfield for you (clearcoat maybe)! So with that logic I plan on hanging on to my collection for a while with maybe an occasional trade up.

#33 7 years ago

Lists of anything are just crap.

Top 100 movies, top 100 songs, top 100 albums....blah.

I'll make up my own mind.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Lists of anything are just crap.
Top 100 movies, top 100 songs, top 100 albums....blah.
I'll make up my own mind.

I agree, but it's cool that we have a top 100 list as voted by us.

#35 7 years ago

I like Space Shuttle so much that I bought 2 of them.

#36 7 years ago

The pinball so nice, you bought it twice!

#37 7 years ago

Also, I kinda think it would be interesting to see how the lists would play out if they were broken down in the same way that one selects pinball game preferences in a Pinside profile. That is:
Early EM
Late EM (I forget the year range for each, but think it's basically flipperless or with flippers)
Early SS
Alphanumeric SS
DMD (plus Pin2k and WOZ; basically any pinball with newer display technology than alphanumeric)

#38 7 years ago

I like to see the collision of early SS, System 11, DMD, and Sterns in the top-100. If the lists were to be broken out, I'd still like to see them overlapped as well.

So, I'll take my humble vote and say:

1) good idea to break out 3 lists: EM/pre-DMD/DMD
2) Allow us to view 3 lists, AND one overlapping list.

enjoy!
-mof

#39 7 years ago

I just played Space Shuttle in a friends garage last night and it was so fun. And I really love the sounds. MOF, I think it is one you've played too since your name came up (super beat up playfield, was at FGW

#40 7 years ago

I heartily approve of the EM vs. SS pre-DMD vs. SS DMD and after 3 lists idea. For one thing, rating machines based on video modes is intrinsically biased against SS pre-DMD because none of them have video modes.

#41 7 years ago

I like Space Shuttle so much that I bought 2 of them.

i know the feeling.
i had 2 in my basement.

.

Space_Shuttle_side_by_side.JPG

#42 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

If you become decent at it, the ball locks are really easy to hit, so the strategy for points is plunge ball, lock ball, plunge ball, drop target, hit ramp to start multiball and then shoot balls past the spinner to build 7X bonus and then up the ramp for points. You can also shoot the ball up the other ramp to keep switching to "Extra Ball" as the SHUTTLE reward.
If you lose a ball, catch and lock the ball and repeat.
It's a really, really simple strategy, and if you have decent ball control skills, it makes it so that you can play for a really, really, really long time. And with the ruleset being so shallow, playing that long isn't so rewarding. There isn't really anything else to shoot for.
It doesn't help that the game has the Airlock thing that saves the ball and the up post in the middle of the game.
And again, lest anyone think I'm trashing their favorite game or whatever, I really like it for what it is. I am waiting for my new tumbler to arrive tomorrow for the playfield swap that I'm in the middle of to continue. But I also realize that Shuttle will be one of the games that I have in the collection because it is a looker and something nostalgic (it's the title after Jurassic Park that I credit with getting me into pinball), not because it is a great playing machine.

I agree if you get the strategy down it does bore after awhile.

#43 7 years ago

It should be higher for sure. Space Shuttle has cost me big time as it was the first pinball I owned (still.) and now have a lot of machines from how fun that game is. I would never sell mine. I can see why it help pinball gain in popularity. Simple to play and just plain fun.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Yes, agree 100%. Pinball has NOTHING to do with that list of games.

I never said that pinball has nothing to do with that list. I meant that that flawed list should not be a benchmark on how games are judged.

#45 7 years ago
Quoted from mcclad:

I never said that pinball has nothing to do with that list. I meant that that flawed list should not be a benchmark on how games are judged.

I understand your perspective. I should rephrase:

"I don't like the lists on Pinside. They are easy to manipulate and compare games from 1977,1993, and 2013 all on the same list."

#46 7 years ago

The lack of cleavage keeps it out of my top 100. At least there is a female robot in Pinbot

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