it's a valid point, heck NASA may even want license money. PPS deals with small vendors all the time, the licensing (to make it legal) may not be that much.

I don't think the shuttle design would be a problem since you are not copying existing art...However, the Williams logo is definitely their trademark. For that you should seek permission. NASA??? Given the way Pinball manufacturers ignored licensing in the past, I doubt that "NASA" would be a problem.

I forgot to mention... Very Nice work!

It looks to me like the shuttle design is the same one from the stenciled cabinet side-art. Does Williams own it? I don't know.

Good points all. The shuttle logo is the one from the side panels, so either way there is a Williams license concern. NASA used to be overly generous to unconcerned, so that's hopefully less.

I would hope for other games, designs could be more original (except the W logos).

But either way, I'm not going to approach the licensing bridge, until I figure out the requirements and capabilities of my shop source. There can be communication issues there, so... yeah, I'm trying to spare everyone else the frustration. But I appreciate the interest!

OK, keep us posted we'll wait.

So has anyone else ever noticed what I am (for not knowing of a more "official" term) going to call "Troll Mode" on this game?

Here's the setup: my game had been working fine for dozens and dozens of rounds all through the holiday break. Over new years' my family drove the long distance to visit. Most of them were amused and intrigued by the pin, but my brother became an absolute hype determined to crack the top scores. He played for longer stretches at a time than any of us. Which was fine of course. But eventually he got the rage and was just restarting games, not even waiting for the Match to run... which seemed fine, ha ha...

...except at some point he noticed the Heat Shield quit working (popping up), the U|S|A rollovers were inconsistent, etc. Weird, and hopefully not a "pinball problem". At some point he was forced to quit and we turned the machine off, I did a quick inspection and didn't see anything amiss. Next power up the game was fine and everything worked fine for many subsequent plays.

Well, during my own marathon session a couple days later I got a bit impatient, began starting games before letting the Match run and after... several instances of that, lo and behold - the Heat Shield quit again. Hmm. This time I did not turn the machine off: after a few games of no shield I took a breather, let the matches run, let the kids take a couple turns... and after a few rounds, the game fixed itself. And it hasn't trolled since !

So... is this a deliberate bit of code, meant to frustrate game hogs to make them let someone else have a turn? Or a way to amp the challenge a bit? Or... is mine "broke" in an interesting fashion?

Either way, I like subversive machines with a bit of defensive snark, so I think it's pretty cool.

I've always let it cycle through so I've never seen that happen.

Wondering if anyone has replaced the slingshot plastics and the small single astronaut plastic . Looks like they crimped the metal tubes on them from the factory and i have no idea how to either remove them and to reuse them on the new plastics. Any advice from someone who has already gone through this ?

I've done this on my Alien Poker. I drilled out the metal posts from the top to get them off of the original plastics and then the new plastics can just kind of sit on them and get screwed down. I don't think there's a clean way remove and reuse them as they were originally intended.

I believe this basically covers it: http://www.classicplayfields.com/f2khelp.html

Perfect !! Exactly what i needed. Thank you sir.

Question for you, are the plastics any good? Are you going to save them? I read on Pinside a while ago that to get them off you could heat up where they come through the plastic with a soldering iron and they would pull out when the plastic got soft enough.

Yep, the old plastics are still in pretty good shape.

I saw that. My concern would be damaging the plastics . Especially trying to reinsert it into the new plastics. seemd pretty risky to me.

I was concerned also so once I got them off the old plastics I ground off the folded over metal which left the little nub which then was able to insert into the new plastic which kept the new plastic at least centered when screwed down.

That's what I do as well.

Hey what are you doing here....get back to making your awesome ramps...paying customers are waiting to flood you with money.

Gotta' take a break once in a while. Hope to have my new machine ready for testing this weekend!

OK...I'll give ya another 5 minutes then back to it.

OK...Got back at it! Second platen successfully installed in new machine.... Had to celebrate so on my second Modelo!

AND IT WORKS?

Still more to do, but good progress today.

Oh ok....well you've done a good days work so I'll give you the night off. But I want you hard at it at 6am tomorrow morning, time is money ya know and I'm not paying you to lollygag around.

Well i decided to go for it and drill out the metal standoffs from the sling plastics instead of the soldering iron method. Worked really well and im happy to say that all plastics have been changed and no damage done.

Great to hear.

So exactly what is the strategy here?

20150117_192918.jpg

buy a lotto ticket, that's never going to happen again

Not sure how i would take a photo but i did indeed just re and re the new ramp with no issues in gameplay whatsoever. What are the issues that people are having with the new ramps ?

w/o routing out the PF the ramps thickness wont allow it to fit flush to the PF. the flap will be above the PF. by routing the pocket under the ramp to go farther back i the PF, not deeper, the ramp can sit flush to the PF. plus the ramp barely makes it between the two entrance posts.

Ok, all i can say is mine plays perfectly with no issues at all. No ball hopping etc. The new ramp did come with a metal transition plate that works perfectly.

Then you have the only one.

Hmmm , im interested to understand why ? Whats happens when you guys have tried to install the new ramp without routing ? Will it just not fit no matter what or are there playing issues if you try ?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/space-shuttle-repo-ramp-modification-guide

Yep, i have read this in the past and totally get it. Why the hell did i not have any issues ? Honestly, everything installed great (tight fit mind you) but also plays perfect. Weird !

Sounds like you got lucky.

I still have not installed mine since I'm not going to tear up my PF to do it. I test fit it and it wasn't going to work. Plus I hate the ramp flaps covering the insert in the center and the text at the right ramp. I'll need to remove thd flaps and use the old mounting method.

YAY SPEAKER PANEL AVAILABILITY UPDATE FINALLY

So, after what seems like forever (dang, it's mid-March already!) I finally have a quote I can work from, to offer the panels I designed somewhat publicly. Seriously though... to those who PM'd and/or patiently waited, I apologize it's been this long. I guess if nothing else it kinda puts the MMr and BL dev threads in perspective, since all I wanted was a piece of metal, ha ha.

Anyway, to refresh and for newbies, the proposal is to offer my custom speaker panel as seen below:

w00t those scores are old... I've since racked that top score on one ball, ha ha

The panel was designed by me in Frankfort, Kentucky, and was laid out for CNC laser-cut Stainless Steel by my dad, produced in a 100+ year family-owned sheet metal fabrication shop on Chicago's southwest side.

Without belaboring the specifics, accounting my for my billed cost for the material stock, machine time, labor, etc, the most cost-effective breakdown is to order these in quantities of 6 as that's the optimal use of a suitable sheet stock. Even then, by the time I factor in shipping and packing, etc... from Chicago to me, and then me to you, at $100 per panel I'd probably just be barely above breaking even. So I'm thinking the sweet spot is $120. Even then I'm not sure I'm valuing my time enough... certainly not getting rich! But if it helps contribute some funds to my burgeoning pin addiction, that can't hurt. Who knows, I might have to adjust pricing on another run. And yes the licensing is still a concern, but at this point I'm wanting to gauge the demand before I pursue that rabbit, and what it might do to costs.

Regardless, even at that $120 price, I need a minimum of FOUR FIRM ORDERS to justify my outlay for a quantity sheet. If I only get 4 (or 5) orders, I will run the extra slot(s) to obtain stock on hand, so those could be available for later sale.

Quoted shop turnaround from paid order to finished product is two weeks... it's a busy place! Then add shipping from them to me, and me to you, and you should expect around a month from the time I place the shop order, to the time it arrives for installation on your Shuttle. Obviously I would ship them to you ASAP!

As for personalization, my dad said he can probably work in machine serial numbers ("535-____ Defender"), and/or your choice of the dual-Williams or dual-Shuttle design "for free", at the moment. For this initial proposed run, I'm willing to try that and see how it goes. Hopefully there are no foul-ups. However you should know that modifying the art may add some time to the production.

So now that I have a price ($120), anticipated turnaround time (~1 month give or take), the minimum order threshold and batch cutoff (4 to run, 6 per batch), and a disclaimer (I've never done this before, so bear with me and understand that while mistakes and the unforseen may yet happen, I am trying to be above board)....

....are there any serious takers, er I mean buyers???

If not, I may consider offering my other two prototypes (see earlier in this thread) for sale. But I only have two, and there was more interest than that, so I'm not sure how to proceed there.

Please feel free to comment or PM with questions, concerns, etc.

Thank you!

-Tony L.

I'm in at $120!

I'm in at $120 too

Oh hell it's only money. I'm in at $120 for the dual Williams. I hope it doesn't fall off cuz that would probably break the glass.

OK, that's three... thank you! Just one shy for now... I'll give it a few days and see where we're at, then PM all interested parties and go from there. If you know anyone who might be interested, let them know!

I also thought about posting on the main forum or market place, but absent a license I don't want to seem like I'm cashing in hand over fist. Like I said, I want to keep things small, gauge demand vis-a-vis price, etc.

But if this is successful, I'd love to try coming up with designs for the other Sys9 and early Sys11 games... might be trickier though. Does anyone know which titles used the same speaker panel design? I know Comet, High Speed, and Pinbot off the top of my head.

i'm in, you have to ship to canada.

i really really need that for my restoration.

I certainly don't mind shipping to Canada, I've sent numerous other things there! Thing is, though, they were usually small and comparatively inexpensive. I know shipping to Canada is fairly reasonable until you put the apparently satanic word "Insured" on the box - then it's like some sort of cross-border nexus warp toll comes into effect. I'll try and quote it out, but given the costs in play I definitely want to insure/track all of these, for everyone's sanity. If you have any recommendations I'd be happy to oblige. Maybe UPS or FedEx is the route here (I'm used to USPS parcels and such...)?

You will get a bill a few month later from UPS saying the buyer did not pay the import duties (even though they did). Even when you provide UPS with proof of payment, the matter will never be settled, it's a scam.

Stick with USPS for USA -->Canada .

i will go with fedex before ups. it's not that bad really. mirror blades are bigger and it doesn't cost that much.
just send me the infos on my pm when get the quote, fedex or usps.

OK, I have 6 stated reservations, so that's a full sheet claimed. If anyone else is interested, please chime in soon, toward building the next minimum group of 4. I have decided to only do a second group. Afterward I should probably investigate licensing and/or fab shops closer to me. But for now, I want to roll while there's a bit of momentum on our side. So if you want in, do it now!

I'll be PM'ing the first group in the next day or so, to confirm panel versions, personalization options, and of course name/addy and payment particulars.

As for payment: I've read enough threads around here to know that prepays are frowned upon, and, given how long it took me just to get a quote, oops I'm not keen on holding onto anyone's money. But it's a decent chunk-o-change on my end to place the order and I don't want to end up stuck there either. So I will probably ask for a non-refundable deposit credit toward your purchase, with a larger balance due upon my receipt from the fab shop. At least that seems fair, but if anyone has problems, or a better suggestion, I'm willing to entertain them.

Beatmaster, I forgot to dig my spares out to weigh and mock-pack for shipping estimation tonight, I will do that next. It seems two of these might be headed to California as well so, dang... shipping my MPU cross-country USPS insured was $20... so based on weight/dimensional similarity, I'm guessing it'll be in that neighborhood or more.

Vid, FWIW I've always been partial to USPS. NEVER a problem with them (unlike the private couriers), plus Sat delivery! Plus fond memories of my time working at the campus post office in college... somehow that was always more fun than it should have been, ha ha

no problem over here, whatever it takes.

man, i can wait to get this.

Sounds ok by me.

Decent looking space shuttle on eBay with a bin of 400. Item #201313339595 located in IL. Good luck!

Count me in for the 2nd Group!

That's an... interesting way of touching up a pf. Actually, "touching up" might be too kind. Barfing up? Farking up? Wow. Just barely less offensive than bare wood, might have kept it sealed or something at least.

Lefteris, gotcha, you're first in line...!