(Topic ID: 197725)

Space Mission won't advance player

By n1teowl

2 years ago

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  • 16 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by n1teowl
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#1 2 years ago

I have a space mission that I'm trying to troubleshoot. I've been making incremental progress, but seem to be stuck. I can't get the player to move past player one no matter how many times I hit the restart button. The machine seems to coin up but never progresses to player two. I also notice that I start on ball 2 when I'm playing one player. It's almost like it resets and then advances a ball instead of just resetting the ball count unit. I tested the coil on the player stepper and it seems fine. It just never seems to step up. Any advice would be a great help. Thanks.

#2 2 years ago

Is it stuck on a 1 player game, or does it register a 2 player game but only play a 1 player game?
See bottom right of http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=8472&zoom=1

#3 2 years ago

Yep, it displays player two, player three, etc. on the credit section. It just never goes to player 2 when player one's ball drains.

#4 2 years ago

That's a complicated set of circuits that may take a few steps to diagnose. You can start by looking at how the Player Unit is working. Do the stepup or reset coils fire?

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#5 2 years ago

I have checked the various relays involved in this circuit and they seem to be functioning properly. If I manually acutate the player reset relay, it doesn't seem to do anything. I checked the step up coil with a multimeter and it is reading okay. I know the reset coil fires because it will reset if I manually advance it. I don't think I have ever been able to get the step up coil to fire. Thanks for your help Howard.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Do the stepup or reset coils fire?

#7 2 years ago

The step up coil does not fire, but the stepper reset coil does.

#8 2 years ago

If the Ball Count unit fires on every drain, even on a multiplayer game, then the problem is most likely in the Player unit or Coin unit disks.

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#9 2 years ago

I did a bunch more investigating today and wasn't able to find anything definitive. I checked out all of the connections with my multimeter and everything looked okay. One thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the player reset relay doesn't do anything at all when I engage the relay by hand. I'm assuming it should fire the step up. The step up coil seems to read okay at 2.3 ohms. Any other ideas why nothing happens with the player reset relay?

#10 2 years ago

Okay, more research done. I have tested the outhole relay, extra ball relay, ball index relay and they all seem to work. I checked continuity between the score motor and the player reset relay and that also checks out. No matter what I do, I can't get the player unit step up to fire. The Y.BR wire between the player reset relay and the player unit stepup shows continuity. I checked the player unit stepup coil and it tested fine. To be safe, I switched it with one from another machine (which also checked out okay). So my two main questions are:

1) Why can't I get the player unit stepup to fire?
2) Why does the player reset relay do nothing no matter when I acutate it by hand? It doesn't appear to do anything.

I'm stumped!!

#11 2 years ago

Hi n1teowl
You ask about the "Player-Reset-Relay - great, ipdb has the schematics and the manual: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2253/Williams_1976_Space_Mission_Instruction_Manual_Jan_1976_no_schematics.pdf - on page-27 (ori-25) it is shown - and some text - also a drawing of the relay --- see the three-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch "C" --- look in the snippet of schematics (from @2HowardR , post-8) --- see this switch in my "dark-blue and light-blue wiring". For us of interest is: The relay NOT-pulling makes the Player-Unit STEP-UP (my dark-blue lines) --- the relay PULLING makes the Player-Unit RESET (my light-blue lines).

In post-7 You write "the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires" --- this is nice - but we need more information. See my "green lines"- Lets say the game before was a FOUR-Player-Game --- You start a new game - EVERYTHING must reset so the pulling Coin-Relay closes its switch, makes the motor run (motor closes its switch) - the Coin-Relay also makes the Reset-Relay pull-in (the RESET-Relay throws a three-bladed switch and closes a two-bladed switch --- the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires.
BUT "green lines" do not have much in common with "blue lines" - You may have the fault in the "blue lines".
Lets check it --- play a ONE-Player-Game and a friend stays at the Backbox staring at the Player-Unit. You play the ONE-Player-Game - You loose a ball played - You see in the Backglass how the pin steps on the ball - You yell "NOW" --- question: Does Your friend sees the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fire as You yell "NOW" ? The coil MUST fire because of Williams-Logic (in Your ONE-Player-Game).

Please do this test and tell us: Does the Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fire at "NOW" ? Greetings Rolf

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#12 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your reply Rolf. I have seen you answer a lot of questions on this forum and was hoping you'd step in on my post as well. I have tried my best to test the blue and light blue lines on the above diagram as I thought that this was likely the problem. I haven't been able to find any issues with how they are working, except for the player reset relay. To answer you question, when starting a one player game and when the ball drains, the Player Unit reset coil does fire. Thanks again for your help.

#13 2 years ago

I took a closer look and have now noticed that the player lights are not stepping forward on the backglass like they used to. I watched the coin unit as I tried to add players 2, 3, etc. and it resets each time. This would explain the ball count step up not firing as it always thinks it's a one player game...

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from n1teowl:

the player lights are not stepping forward on the backglass like they used to. I watched the coin unit as I tried to add players 2, 3, etc. and it resets each time.

The coin unit stepping up versus reset is controlled by a switch on the Reset relay (1 on attachment) and the Reset relay is controlled by a switch on the Game Over relay (2 on attachment). What are those relays and switches doing?

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#15 2 years ago

Here's the current situation. Reset relay seems to reset everything when start button is pressed, it doesn't matter if you press it several times in a row, it always sticks on one player. During the reset process, the ball always goes past ball one to ball two. The rest of the balls advance normally. The coin relay, when actuated by hand, resets the coin unit. I've also noticed that the balls advance whether or not the ball index relay is pulled in (after scoring some points). The game over relay seems to be functioning fine. It stays latched on until game over and the the solenoid fires and the game is over.

#16 2 years ago

Thanks for the help. I was able to resolve the problem, although not sure exactly how. I cleaned and adjusted a bunch of switches I had already gone over, cleaned the steppers, etc. and now it's working. I'm not going to complain, I'll just play it and call it good.

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