(Topic ID: 232518)

Space Mission won't lift off

By MT45

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by MT45
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

wmsfree1 (resized).jpg
IMG_3343 (resized).JPG
IMG_3335 (2)_LI (resized).jpg
IMG_3334_LI (resized).jpg
Space Mission Reset Relay (resized).png
IMG_3298 (resized).JPG
IMG_3292 (resized).JPG
IMG_3209 (resized).JPG
#1 5 years ago

Calling all EM experts, or anyone with an opinion ... picked up a fairly clean Space Mission last week. Love the gameplay on this one!

Here is my issue. It works 90% of the time, turns on with cabinet power switch - lights on the playfield get lit, then I push the start button, the score reels reset to "0" and then on with a game ...

BUT every 2 out of 10 games or so, it stops at "the playfield is lit up" and it won't do anything else?? It just sits there, mashing the start button changes nothing.

What are the first THREE things you would check in order?

I've done a fair bit of resto work on it so far, cabinet cleaned, new playfield protector, new pop caps, new leg bolts, new rubbers, repaired plunger rod, rebuilt both flippers, filed/stoned the switch contacts on the flippers/EOS switches, replaced lane guides, fixed horseshoe advance button, ordered new plastics, etc. etc.

I also have a digital copy of the schematic from IPDB and can print if needed

IMG_3209 (resized).JPGIMG_3209 (resized).JPG
#2 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

What are the first THREE things you would check in order?

The first THREE things you should check are to see how far it's getting in the Sequence of Operation / Reset Cycle on page 7 in the manual.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2253/Williams_1976_Space_Mission_Instruction_Manual_Jan_1976_no_schematics.pdf

#3 5 years ago

This game will always need the score reels at 0 and the bonus reset. Are either of those not the case when it won't start?

#4 5 years ago

Thanks for both replies guys. The reset cycle will be helpful and ...

No - the score reels during these times are not resetting to zero - they are not "trying" even

There are occasions where the reels don't fully reset to zero, but they "try" and sometimes leave a score up, but the game starts anyway

Hope that helps to narrow it down some ...

#5 5 years ago

Adjust the contacts on all the score wheels. That is where I would start, most start up issues originate from there.

This has an animation showing the contact positions. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-score-reel-operation-animation

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Cdemuro:

Adjust the contacts on all the score wheels. That is where I would start, most start up issues originate from there.
This has an animation showing the contact positions. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-score-reel-operation-animation

Thanks for sharing that animation. Super easy to understand once you watch it a few times. (runs fast!)
I'll check them today

#7 5 years ago

so what is going to happen is the reset relay is going to pull in and start the score motor running. The impulse cam is going to have a switch on it that pulses the point relays 5 times per cycle. If you manually push in the reset relay does anything happen?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

so what is going to happen is the reset relay is going to pull in and start the score motor running. The impulse cam is going to have a switch on it that pulses the point relays 5 times per cycle. If you manually push in the reset relay does anything happen?

Yes sir! Thanks so much ... when I manually pull in the reset relay, score reels reset to zero and game starts as normal.

Here are some pics of the reset relay before pulling it in manually. Seems like one of these switches is maladjusted or maybe reset relay is not getting signal from start button?

IMG_3292 (resized).JPGIMG_3292 (resized).JPGIMG_3298 (resized).JPGIMG_3298 (resized).JPG
#9 5 years ago

OK so we need to look at what activates the reset relay. Here is the schematic: https://www.ipdb.org/files/2253/Williams_1976_Space_Mission_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

The reset relay is at E5. I've highlighted some switches you should inspect, clean and adjust including the start (Credit) switch
Space Mission Reset Relay (resized).pngSpace Mission Reset Relay (resized).png

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

OK so we need to look at what activates the reset relay. Here is the schematic: https://www.ipdb.org/files/2253/Williams_1976_Space_Mission_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf
The reset relay is at E5. I've highlighted some switches you should inspect, clean and adjust including the start (Credit) switch
[quoted image]

Thanks for all of this. Hate to seem dense but EMs are rather new to me ... couple questions:

I think I know where "some" of these switches are (credit switch and reset relay as examples) because I "know" where the credit button is and can easily see the switch. I see the reset relay right behind the transformer because it's labeled or I wouldn't know what it was!

How do I "find" the other switches?
What am I checking? Normally open vs closed and vice versa?
Continuity? Voltage?

Probably all the above!

Thanks for any help

#11 5 years ago

BTW, I checked all the reel switches and compared to animation. All look good at zero

#12 5 years ago

How do I "find" the other switches?
The name next to the switch indicates the Relay of Unit the switch is on. The manual contains a listing for each relay so in some cases you can match it up based upon number of stacks/switches. The Schematic also has the wire colors so look at the color on each side of the switch on the schematic and then find the switch with those color wires on the relay/unit

What am I checking?
Does it make a good connection when closed and clearly open when opened? Switches should wipe when they open close. The short arm of the switch should be pushed back a tiny amount when closed and towards the long arm when open. This helps keep the switches clean.

Normally open vs closed and vice versa?
2 lines is a Normally open switch. 2 Lines with a slash through them is normally closed.

Continuity? Voltage?
Not for what we are looking at. You already have voltage or the reset relay wouldn't work when you manually activated it

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

How do I "find" the other switches?
The name next to the switch indicates the Relay of Unit the switch is on. The manual contains a listing for each relay so in some cases you can match it up based upon number of stacks/switches. The Schematic also has the wire colors so look at the color on each side of the switch on the schematic and then find the switch with those color wires on the relay/unit
What am I checking?
Does it make a good connection when closed and clearly open when opened? Switches should wipe when they open close. The short arm of the switch should be pushed back a tiny amount when closed and towards the long arm when open. This helps keep the switches clean.
Normally open vs closed and vice versa?
2 lines is a Normally open switch. 2 Lines with a slash through them is normally closed.
Continuity? Voltage?
Not for what we are looking at. You already have voltage or the reset relay wouldn't work when you manually activated it

Score motor switches are shown in a circle and have a number or letter next to them. This indicates the stack of switches on the core motor (not score reels, we're talking about the big bank of switches on cams in the cabinet). The cams, switch stacks and the switches on them are detailed on the bottom right of the schematic

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

How do I "find" the other switches?
The name next to the switch indicates the Relay of Unit the switch is on. The manual contains a listing for each relay so in some cases you can match it up based upon number of stacks/switches. The Schematic also has the wire colors so look at the color on each side of the switch on the schematic and then find the switch with those color wires on the relay/unit
What am I checking?
Does it make a good connection when closed and clearly open when opened? Switches should wipe when they open close. The short arm of the switch should be pushed back a tiny amount when closed and towards the long arm when open. This helps keep the switches clean.
Normally open vs closed and vice versa?
2 lines is a Normally open switch. 2 Lines with a slash through them is normally closed.
Continuity? Voltage?
Not for what we are looking at. You already have voltage or the reset relay wouldn't work when you manually activated it

Hugely helpful on all - thanks so much. Will get busy later today sniffing this all out!

#15 5 years ago

OK - made some progress thanks to you all. I've got the manual and schematics printed
Checked the switches that I could find and all appeared normal. Game Over re, Reset re, Credit button sw, Index switch "A" on motor stack and a few others.

Cleaned them while in there but all appeared to be in correct NO/NC positions

Here is where I made progress:

See below pics of coin door switches. One has 3 blades, one has 2 blades - why are they different?
If I push in on the back blade (toward head of machine) on the switch closest to the lock, I can add credits to the machine AND simply push the credit/start button to start a normal game. If I make contact using the 2 blades on that same switch that are closest to the face of the coin door - nothing happens
If I drop a coin in the coin chute ... it drops thru, hits the thin wire but does not add a credit like pushing in that 3rd blade does
I'm fine using coins to start the game but how would I get a coin to create contact with that "3rd blade"?
That blade does not seem long enough to be physically moved by the nylon "cog"?

Now, on to the other coin door coin activated switch ... the one with just 2 blades. I can make contact there but no credits are added

How was I playing this previously without "credits"?
Did the prior owner simply have the max credits stacked up on the credit mech - then I "ran out"? (seems unlikely)
Also, when I make contact using that "3rd blade" on the coin door coin activated switch, the max credits it will let me add are 18 total. If I continue to push that blade to make contact, the credit indicator does not advance

Lastly - see the video and let me know if the coin door solenoid should be activating during gameplay. Seems odd but to be honest, I have no idea what that coil does in the game anyway!?

Thanks in advance for the help!

IMG_3334_LI (resized).jpgIMG_3334_LI (resized).jpg

IMG_3335 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_3335 (2)_LI (resized).jpg

#16 5 years ago

I wouldn't even worry about credits unless you are going to route it. Find the credit unit and jumper the 0 position switch closed and you're on free play.

My guess is the 3 way switch might be hooked up to a 2 coin per credit unit?

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I wouldn't even worry about credits unless you are going to route it. Find the credit unit and jumper the 0 position switch closed and you're on free play.
My guess is the 3 way switch might be hooked up to a 2 coin per credit unit?

Think you are spot on ... I used info from pinrepair.com to jumper .. and as you said and it works perfectly

I ALSO took just a few minutes to better understand how coin mech switches work and got them both working again - that third blade was waaaay too far bent back and is supposed to be a normally closed blade that is opened as the coin drops thru (see slow mo video)

The first pic is of the now properly adjusted coin mech switch
IMG_3343 (resized).JPGIMG_3343 (resized).JPG

This pic is where I jumpered the switch to set game always on free play
Got image from here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#free
... and same recommendation from Cheddar (thank you sir!)
wmsfree1 (resized).jpgwmsfree1 (resized).jpg

Shot a slow mo video of it for any other for future reference

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Oceanside, NY
$ 4.00
Playfield - Decals
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
$ 50.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Slipstream Mod Shop
 
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
From: $ 135.00
Cabinet - Other
The Pinball Scientist
 
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/space-mission-won-t-lift-off-?hl=howardr and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.