(Topic ID: 173628)

Space Mission eject holes are too strong.

By Silverstreak02

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_2744 (resized).JPG
#1 7 years ago

I recently cleared my Space Mission play field and rebuilt all the eject holes, pop bumpers and flippers. We started playing a couple of weeks ago and I noticed the eject holes are shooting the ball into the air as it comes out. The ball actually hit the glass once. This has created an area of dimples in the play field a couple of inches in front of the hole. The pictures don't show them and they can't be felt, but they can be seen when you look from the right angle. I started to investigate and discovered my transformer was on the hi-tap terminal. I changed it and now it doesn't hit the glass, but the ball still gets airborne. Is there a way to weaken the mechanism or is this just the way it is?

#2 7 years ago

IMG_2744 (resized).JPGIMG_2744 (resized).JPG

#3 7 years ago

Might be just what you're stuck with. You could install a weaker coil however and that would solve your problem. Otherwise, there may be something you can wire in-line to reduce voltage going to these coils, but putting in a weaker one is probably your best bet. You'll just have to figure out which, which unfortunately isn't my strong suit. There's a format for the lettering, you can look this up online (among being other places). "Coil conversion chart" or something along those lines would probably suffice in a search.

#4 7 years ago

You cud also try puttin a wire wound resistor in line with the coil.
would have to experiment to get right valu

#5 7 years ago

Perhaps you should check the travel of the kicker. It might not be travelling the correct distance as before, which might be causing the ball to pop up more often.

Also, is the ball creating the dimples or is it actually an "orange peel" or "fish eye" effect from the clearcoat. When I clear coated my old Space Mission, I didn't get the playfield as clean as I thought and some areas had this happen.

#6 7 years ago

No orange peel, just the dimples. I took the glass off again and noticed I have a ton of dimples in front of the swinging target. Unless this will somehow harm the clear coat I'm not going to worry about it. The dimples are so small they can't be felt and can only be seen when looking at the right angle. A straight on view looks perfect.

#7 7 years ago

I waited to reply on this until I could look at my own Space Mission.
Is it only the cups that are launching the ball?

You say you rebuilt them, what exactly did you do?
There are no real "adjustments " on that assembly so if the ball did not jump before it should be related to the new parts.
The bracket is also the coil stop. Did you change the bracket and if so is the height of the stop the same?
Did you change the plunger or the link? Are they the same length?

Addition of or less travel of the mechanism will affect how the ball leaves the cup.

Finally, did you change the spring on the two drive arms?
The spring absorbs some of the energy applied to the mechanism. If the spring is to hard the hit on the ball will be harder.
The reverse is also true, softer spring softer hit.

Look at the parts that were changed in the rebuild....

Before adding resistors or changing the coil ,why not change the spring. They are cheap at the hardware store.

My game is not clear coated but there is definitely a place where the ball always lands and is indicated in the finish of the playfield.
Cliff

#8 7 years ago

Cliff thanks for the reply. I changed the plunger/link and the plastic cup. I didn't measure the parts before they were replaced, but bought them form PBR. The spring looked good so I didn't change it, but I might order some the next time I place an order. The ball also gets launched by the swinging target from time to time. It was worse when it was on Hi tap, but still does to some degree. I think it was like this before the clear coating and parts replacement, but just wasn't dimpling anything.

#9 7 years ago

Easiest fix is to go with weaker coils. Marco has a G25-1000 and a G24-750. If the ball is coming out really fast-out-of-control, I would go with the G25-1000.

#10 7 years ago

The dimpling could be the thickness of the clear coat. Is it fully cured ?

I had a Trident that I clear coated with Varethane and played the living crap out of it over 5 years or so.( likely 1500-1700 games).
When I sold it I noticed the dimpling of the playfield.
I think in that case the Varethane was not fully cured and I had applied it pretty thick. I think it cured with time.
I did wet sand and buffed it and it looked nice again.
In that case, I think the thickness of the Varethane was a curse and a blessing at the same time.

You could add a "mylar square" at the dimpling site.
I still think that if the length of the stop or plunger is different.

I recently restored a 1956 Rifle game and I had an issue where a target would get stuck down. I found that Williams makes at least 3 different coil stop lengths. Rather than changing electrical parts I added a taller coil stop and the problem was solved. The travel range made the moving target get stuck when it was all the way down. By limiting the travel mechanically I eliminated the issue.
Cliff

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

I waited to reply on this until I could look at my own Space Mission.
Is it only the cups that are launching the ball?
You say you rebuilt them, what exactly did you do?
There are no real "adjustments " on that assembly so if the ball did not jump before it should be related to the new parts.
The bracket is also the coil stop. Did you change the bracket and if so is the height of the stop the same?
Did you change the plunger or the link? Are they the same length?
Addition of or less travel of the mechanism will affect how the ball leaves the cup.
Finally, did you change the spring on the two drive arms?
The spring absorbs some of the energy applied to the mechanism. If the spring is to hard the hit on the ball will be harder.
The reverse is also true, softer spring softer hit.
Look at the parts that were changed in the rebuild....
Before adding resistors or changing the coil ,why not change the spring. They are cheap at the hardware store.
My game is not clear coated but there is definitely a place where the ball always lands and is indicated in the finish of the playfield.
Cliff

Cliff does the ball get airborne coming out of the eject holes on your game?

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

does the ball get airborne

I have not seen it get airborne.
It does come out quickly and usually goes to the corresponding flipper.

I was going to mention that most dimpling is caused by air balls.
I played it a lot over the weekend.

All of the cups are as the game was when I bought it. ( Not sure if parts are original but it is likely)
I have not done any changes so if there is anything you need me to do ( measure, pics etc) let me know.
It is not at my house but I will be playing it again this weekend.
Cliff

#13 7 years ago

I ordered two new springs today from PBR. I'll let you know if they solve the problem.

#14 7 years ago

I have a space mission and my problem was the opposite. I figured out that my setup angle was to steep and dialed it down until it was perfect. What angle is your game setup to?

#15 7 years ago

About 2 1/2 to 3 degrees

#16 7 years ago

That is pretty low.
I run them no less than 5 degrees.
Most of them I have higher so they play faster.

Did you change the spring when you rebuilt them ?
Did it launch the ball in the air before the clear coat ?

I would think that a new spring ( being tighter due to less fatigue) will launch it out harder.
It seems in looking at the mechanism that a softer spring would absorb more energy as the arm hits the ball.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

That is pretty low.
I run them no less than 5 degrees.
Most of them I have higher so they play faster.
Did you change the spring when you rebuilt them ?
Did it launch the ball in the air before the clear coat ?
I would think that a new spring ( being tighter due to less fatigue) will launch it out harder.
It seems in looking at the mechanism that a softer spring would absorb more energy as the arm hits the ball.

I changed the plastic cup, plunger with the attached link and the spring that goes on the plunger. I ordered the spring that goes on the mechanism and will change it next. I'm not sure if the ball was being launched in the air before I did the clear coat. I only had the game for a month before I took it apart. I can say that there were no dimples before I did the clear coat. We played some tonight and the left side is way more of a problem than the right. The ball hit the glass several times coming out of the left hole. I think the ball is occasionally getting air on the right side, but not very high or often. I have minor dimples on that side and a ton on the left side. I started to look at score motor switches and the relay tonight after playing and will test my results tomorrow. I hope I find it soon.

#18 7 years ago

Raise your angle and see if that fixes your issue.

#19 7 years ago

I would guess that the length of the plunger/link is slightly different or the spring is not as strong as the one before.

It cannot be a switch issue because the switch is made when the ball enters the cup. That is it.

You did not change to the low voltage tap on the transformer as part of the restoration, correct ?

#20 7 years ago

I got the new springs from PBR and replaced them, but that made no difference. I then installed all the old parts in the left side and have played like that for several nights. The eject mechanism is definitely weaker with the old parts. The ball still pops out of the cup, but not as far or as high as before. I compared the parts as I replaced them and they appeared to be exactly the same except for the sleeve. The new one is plastic instead of metal. I think I'll try installing the metal sleeve on the right side to see if that makes a difference. I also measured the voltage at the transformer and have 28.8 instead of the 24 stated on the label. I'm going to call PBR to ask if there is a way to decrease the voltage. HI tap is over 30 volts.

#21 7 years ago

I spoke to Steve at PBR today He is sending me two weaker coils.

#22 7 years ago

Wow, even with the old parts it still launches the ball.......WTF ?

#23 7 years ago

jack the back legs way up. also, is the game high tapped?

#24 7 years ago

Note: make sure the plunger is longer.

Old part # 2A-2364 2" plunger
New part #02-3407 2-1/4" plunger

1 month later
#25 7 years ago

I installed the weaker coils from PBR and that solved the problem. Now the ball comes out of the hole much slower and rolls to the flipper instead of being launched into the air. Steve Young knows his stuff.

#26 7 years ago

So u had the wrong coils in the whole time?

#27 7 years ago

No I had the correct original coils. PBR sold me weaker coils that work better.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 
800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Oceanside, NY
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 4.00
Playfield - Decals
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
$ 50.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Slipstream Mod Shop
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/space-mission-eject-holes-are-too-strong and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.