(Topic ID: 233123)

Space Mission ball return kickout and score motor issues

By Sea_Wolf

5 years ago


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  • 66 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Sea_Wolf
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#21 5 years ago

Hi Sea-Wolf
Your Score-Motor runs and runs - and the 1-2- and 3-4-Reset-Relays pulse and pulse --- question: Does the Bonus-Relay pull - stay pulling ? When the Bonus-Unit truely is resetted then "encircled red" switch is open - and so Bonus-Relay does NOT pull.

It is nice that the Score-Drums reset --- means all 16 switches of type "my orange A" are open --- BUT every Score-Drum has another switch 'open at Zero', the "my orange B" --- if just one of these 16 switches (orange B) is faulty closed (when the drum is in pos-Zero): The fault.

Not to forget: 2 times 16 Score-Drums switches are good and the Bonus-Relay is not pulling (and its switch (encircled rosa/pink) is truely open) - but poor us: The Score-Motor-Switch IND-D is faulty and we (You) have the fault. Greetings Rolf

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#32 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
You may have a fault in "my orange B, JPG in post-21" - 1 or 2 or 3 ... faulty staying closed Score-Drum-Switch(es)
and / or a fault on "Bonus-Relay / Bonus-Relay-Switch
and / or a fault on Score-Motor-Switch-IND-D. The fault shows up as "Score-Motor endlessly turns, Reset-Relay stays pulling, 1-2-Reset-Relay and 3-4-Reset-Relay do endlessly pulse.

I do not know about "only - and - or" --- it is not fun to have a very good look at all 16 (16!) Score-Drums - inspecting carefully all the switches that open when the Drum reaches ist Zero Position (when starting up).

The following is a test "Is the fault only in 'my orange B' - Yes or No". See here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=37040&zoom=1 , lower right corner, standing upright (top is top): Jones-Plugs connecting the Insert in the Backbox with the Mech-Panel (M-Panel) in the Cabinet --- connecting the Insert in the Backbox with the Playfield --- (((the pin also has Jones-Plugs connecting Mech-Panel with the Playfield. See the JPG - taken from ipdb-manual the Jones-Plugs - standing upright, top is top. Se "my orange xx, wire of color-blue-brown-1, on position left-8" in the Jones-Plug in the connection "Mech-Panel-Cabinet to Insert-in-the-Backbox" --- due to wire shortages beyond of control of Gottlieb in Your pin there might be a wire of other color: When You unsolder the wire at this pos-left-8 away from the socket on the Jones-Plug - see the JPG, schematics: You cut connection from " 'switches in question' down into cabinet " - You kind of force ALL 16 switches to be open, always open. Please do the unsoldering with Your pin is toggled-off, main power cord is unplugged (Safety Reasons).
The free end of the unsoldered-wire shall not touch metal, so tape the free end on the unsoldered wire. Then plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - does the pin shows EXACTLY the same reaction as before ? Or "other reaction" ? Please write about. Greetings Rolf

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#39 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
a long time ago there was a problem with an "faulty closed 'open-at-Zero' switch on a Score-Drum" - I made an analogy: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-with-williams-dealers-choice#post-2541079 --- end of the post was the advice: "Check the two switches 'open at Zero' on all the 16 Score-Drums". My post-32 in here is a test before checking (sigh) all Score-Drum-Switches.
Switzerland (south of Germany), Europe - we are 7, 8, 9, 10 hours ahead of the USA. Not specifically Your topic but in general: I fear "me writing posts - writing posts and with a short offset in time You writing posts - writing posts" --- which writing belongs to which writing, I start writing then have to rewrite due to an new incoming post.
This is my last post for today - soon I will go to sleep. Till tomorrow. Greetings Rolf

#43 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
post-35, post-38 --- I am somewhat lost - the "original problem (motor runs endlessly and the 1-2- and 3-4-Reset-Relay endlessy pulse)" - has the "original problem" dissapeared ? Do You have one or more problems when starting a new game ?
The Swinging-Target motor runs on 110VAC, has not a fuse on its own, its hooked-in at primary 10Amp fuse --- Danger !
The Spinning-Target (lane on the left, upwards) is delicate --- the the two halves of the plate (spinning) are weighted - one half is heavier so at rest this half is near the playfield surface. A little rod goes down through the playfield - the rod is hooked-on on a leaf switch --- lift the playfield and try manually.
What is the problem You would like to look at (by now) ? Greetings Rolf

#45 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
thanks for the description - the biggest problem by now is the "not running" Swinging Target motor - dead ? or no connection ? or mechanically blocked ?
I happen to have an Space Mission (see my collection) - I lifted the playfield and Yes, there is no fuse for this motor. Well, a couple of days before I made a bulls-eye hit - the ball banged to the swinging target - see https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=14406&zoom=1 - the red target was in the middle - bang, the ball hit the target and the target moved backwards - AND got caught under the plastic cover (with text "Swinging Target") - hard to believe when looking at the ipdb-picture --- question: Is in Your pin the target caught by the plastic cover ? If Your answer is "No": In the (ipdb) schematics we see "wire-color-blue" and "wire-color-black" run to the solderlugs on the motor. Ask a friend for help - have the pin toggled-off, lift the playfield and secure it lifted. You stare at the axis of the motor - Your friend toggles on the pin then presses the Replay / Start-Button - the Start-up begins --- You stare at the axis of the motor - do You see a bit of movement, little bit of turning ?
If Your answer is "Yes": Toggle-off the pin and write - the motor should not be blocked mechanically for a long time.
If Your answer is "No": Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord, then look at the (ipdb) manual, page-26 (ori-24), Game-Over-Relay, Switch "B", then look in Your pin (pin is toggled-off and the main power cord is unplugged !!!) at this switch --- wires soldered-on ? contact-points clean ? move one of the armature plates - move the other armature plate - do this several times - when switch "B" closes - TRUELY closed ?
Then hands off, plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - question: Does the swinging target swings ? Write about. Greetings Rolf

#47 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
I look at the picture in post-23 - I give letters to the switches - left to right: "A", "B", "C", "D", "E", "F" --- I look at the drawing of Game-Over-Relay in the ipdb-manual at page-26 (ori-24) - the switches are drawn "mirrored" --- Switch "A" and switch "B" in Your pin are really mangled - AND Switch-B is the one for the swinging target motor ...
Have the pin toggled-off AND the line-cord unplugged (Safety Reasons) --- use a stripe of fine sandpaper and fold the stripe - the upperside of the folded stripe is sandpaper and the lower side is sandpaper ---put the stripe inbetween the contactpoints (then actuate the armature so the switch is closed) - and move the stripe of sandpaper back and forth - clean the contactpoints. In the picture in post-23 the switch looks to be truely closed - I hope for luck and the switch works after cleaning - and we can live with the mangled switches. This is my last post for today, till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

#51 5 years ago

Hi Sea-Wolf
great - You cleaned an adjusted and most of the faults are fixed. I am not sure what exactly You mean on "Extraball / Spinner Light way too early". See the JPG: We are playing a ball - respectively use a finger to simulate where the ball rolls / hit. The Swinging Target swings and You could (/ can) hit the Swinging Target with a finger. I don't like to fumble on a Swinging Target - there is an alternative: See the "pink Z" - a standup leaf switch behind the rubber - there we get 50 points AND: The lights "my pink Y" turn on or turn off --- make the "my pink Y" lit. Now when You simulate "ball rolls through an 'lighted pink Y lane' ": You get what You get when hitting the Swinging Target.

See the lights below the Swinging Target "yellow 5000, milkywhite, milkywhite, red 5000, etc." Here the pin always steps one step to the right - whenever You hit the Swinging Target / "ball rolls through an 'lighted pink Y lane' ". You always get a bonus and 1000 or 5000 points.
This stepping the light does not reset when starting a new game - we have simply lighted the light lit at end of the game before.
When the stepped light is on a "red 5000": Two Invitation-Lights are lit: On the spinner NOW You get thousands of points --- on top of the playfield the middle lane is lighted "when the ball rolls through here You then get an Extraball". See the bottom of the JPG, my red dot: When You have the ball rolled trhough: "Same Player shoots again" is lit.
When on the stepped light below the Swinging Target You make an "A" or "B" or "C": The Invitation lights (my orange dots) on the left and on the right inform You: Here on the Eject-Holes You now can make double bonus. The ipdb manual has information to change "liberal" or "conservative".

Please give more details to the "problems in the pin". Greetings Rolf

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#55 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf , currieddog
the following text I have written not knowing post-53, post-54.

Sea-Wolf - I was hoping for luck - You not knowing the ruleset - claiming "fault" what is normal when playing. Well, no luck.

The Outhole-Kicker, Ball-Release-Coil: See the manual in ipdb, page-16 (ori-14) Jones-Plug "wire-BLU-WH-4" on position right-6 on the size-20-jack - corrosion ?

The other problems: The ipdb-manual on page-15 (ori-13) informs me "Set-Up-Relay is mounted on the underneathside of the playfield". Have the pin toggled-off, lift the playfield and watch the Set-Up-Relay - You toggle-on and start a game --- does the Set-Up-Relay pulls-in ? It is allowed to pull-in when "JPG in post-51, one of the red dots below the swinging target IS LIT". And maybe it is allowed to pull-in on other position on stepped light. A bit complicated - schematics 16-17 / D-E: I see an Adj-Jack in the schematics involved. Does Your Set-Up-Relay pulls-in ?

Helpful for troubleshooting is the information (I do not know yet) - when You have a ball in play: Can You step on the stepped light below the Swinging Target ? Then toggle-off the main power switch - then toggle-on, start a new game ?
It would make troubleshooting easyer when You step that light to position "just a position to the right of yellow dot (JPG in post-51) --- this position I also can call "first milky-white dot on the pins "A". Having the light in that position - toggling-off, then toggling-on, start a new game - does Your Set-Up-Relay pulls-in ?

It is too late to wait for Your answer and then write another post ... This is my last post for today, greetings Rolf

#60 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
where are You with the Ball Return Kicker - Ball-Release-Coil ?
Read here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#other at end "Williams Magic City" ...
I first would try the test "You use two Jumper-Wires and make the Kicker to kick at Your will" --- when the kicking is still no good: You most likely have a mechanical problem. Greetings Rolf

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#62 5 years ago

Hi Sea_Wolf
the Space Mission is one of the pins "starting every new ball with one bonus given" - so testing is a bit more complicated --- see the pulling Outhole-Relay and the turning motor and the closing of SCM-3A (Bonus Step-up) and the closing of SCM-4A (Ball Release), JPG in post-60.
The idea (post-60) is "holding with one hand one Jumper-Wire on its insulation, holding with the other hand the second Jumper-Wire on its insulation - then make connection (touching the bare ends of the two Jumper-Wires) and look how good the kicking is".

Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - lift the playfield - install "my brown Jumper-Wire" - clip on at switch on Outhole-Relay - take the other end of the Jumper-Wire around stuff in the pin - take the other end through the open coin door out into the open - let it hang loose, free, not touching metal. Do the same with "my blue Jumper-Wire". These two Jumper-Wires shall not touch each other.
Take the playfield down, put the ball into the outhole, plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - wait until the first ball is kicked over to the shooter alley. Take the ball out, lift the playfield, sneak-in a stripe of paper in between the contactpoints on the Outhole-Switch below the Outhole - this switch shall be open forever. Take the playfield down, lay the ball into the outhole --- then do the "touching the bare ends of the two Jumper-Wires and look how the ball is kicked over" --- any better ? Greetings Rolf

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