Space Mission - 5x Scoring Issue

Greetings,
Im new to the forum, and can tell already im gonna like this place.
I recently picked up my 1st pinball, Space Mission.... I n00b.

Problem - Any score that is a multiple of 5 only works every other time.
The other time it only advances three times.......
Bonus, ejectors, bumpers, anything that gives a score of 50, 500, or 5000 will only work every other time.

50-30-50-30-50-30
500-300-500-300-500-300
5000-3000-5000-3000-5000-3000
500-3000-50-300-500-30-5000-300-5000-30

Thanks for your time,
A

#2 9 years ago

TXT

textrivers

Pinside member

Welcome, Agent009! Congrats on your Space Mission, that's a super fun game -- high up on my wanted list, for sure.

If you haven't done so, read this: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

Yes, all of it.

So, now that you've read that, you know that scores that are multiples 5 usually happen with 5 pulses through the score motor. It sounds like one side of the 5-bump cog isn't working quite right -- maybe the "bumps" are lower than they should be, or something. When it scores 30, or 300, or 3000, does it ding 3 times evenly spaced, or is there another pattern?

#3 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

Thanks!
Im soooooo happy to of found this space mission pinball machine!
I wanted a game that was EM and space themed.
This one hits it out of the park on both accounts, and on top of that it is a fun game!

While im in the process of reading that link, ill answer the question....

It does not ding 3 times evenly spaced, it seems to want to hit the extra 2 dings, but they are lost.
D meh D D

#4 9 years ago

LEB

fflint_18

Inactive member

Marlton, NJ

12y 26,900 704 6

Welcome aboard.

I also have a Space Mission. It was really roached, but I brought it back from the dead because I am a kid from the Apollo era and the theme makes my day.

I will be able to help you thru some things with pictures and such. I can help get you thru the schematics and hopefully explain some of the nuances.

There is someone else here on the forum that is the master of Space Mission. His name is Steve Fury and he understands every circuit of the old girl and can even help you with matching paint for the playfield. I bow to his greatness.

Rivers has given you really good advice. It sounds like an issue with pulses coming from the score motor. I haven't looked at it yet, but I think 2 of the scoremotor cogs have 2 groups of 5 pulses on them. First check if half of them appear badly worn (I have never seen this before, but who knows). Also look at all the switches on those 2 switch stacks. Make sure they are adjusted correctly. Both sets of impulse bumps need to positively close the switches in order to get the correct scoring.

Keep us in the loop.

Bert

#5 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

Im soooo lucky, this machine was in pretty good shape when i got it.
Only real issue was a weak flipper.
This problem is new, or about a week old. Ive been playing it daily for over a month without issue.
There is a local guy who is really kool that works on machines. He cleaned it up, and installed a flipper rebuild kit.
I could call him, but i got an EM pinball machine to figure out how they work! Haha.

I have looked at the score motor. Just from hitting the buttons and watching things i kinda figured my problem was somewhere in there. Problem is, i dont much know what im looking at!
Im in the middle of a few things, but have been reading through the link provided.

The only other problem ive had was a bar that would vibrate on the coin mechanism, so i cut a wire going to it. Only reason i note this in case it is somehow related to problem in the OP.

#6 9 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

11y 77,150 7,231

on the score motor, you will see a cam that has 10 "teeth" on it... that is the "impulse cam"... as the other guys noted, it sounds like you may have a few teeth either missing or so worn that they aren't "making" the switch to pulse the needed relay...

#7 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

Thanks for the help....
Ive looked at the score motor, there seeems to be 2 cams that fit the description of having 10 teeth.
After inspecting them both, and cleaning them, i really dont notice a difference from one set of teeth to the other.

I did not inspect the switches very close, though nothing loooked obv out of whack.
Will reinspect.

#8 9 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

11y 77,150 7,231

hmmm...

if the impulse cams are mechanically "good", what else could cause a consistent pattern?

just going on straight "how em's work", since i'm not familiar with the machine...

- the relays involved can't possibly "know" enough to create the pattern...

- the motor switches can't either...

this really points to one of the impulse cams having 2 teeth that are "worn down" enough so that they aren't actuating the switch stack... < confused >

put the pf up in the service position so you can watch the motor turn... have someone do a pf action that uses the score motor and carefully observe the switch stacks being actuated by the impulse cams... then have them do it again... see if you can visually identify any difference in the actuation of the stacks...

edit: i am assuming you have tightened those switch stacks that are actuated by the impulse cams... if not, do so...

#9 9 years ago

SteveFury

Pinside member

Atlanta, GA

11y 75,650 1,496 3

Any luck with this issue Agent009?

#10 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

After playing with it for a while, i stumbled upon what seeems to be a fix......

DSCN0588.JPG

I stuck a bit of sandpaper in the most bottom slot on the 2nd to last cam, and out of curiosity left it in there and started hitting the buttons...
Everything worked fine. As long as that SP was in there, it worked. If i took it out, it even seemed to work OK one time before it went back to the problem.

I still dont see any difference in action with the paper there. Lol.

This also seems to be the only switch stack that does not have enough spring force to hold it down against the cam all the time..... There is a slight gap between the bottom of the stack and the cam.

I have not yet figured out a more permanent fix....
Open to suggestions, haha.

#11 9 years ago

TXT

textrivers

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Agent009:
This also seems to be the only switch stack that does not have enough spring force to hold it down against the cam all the time..... There is a slight gap between the bottom of the stack and the cam.

I'd bet all five of my dollars that that's the cause of the problem. So maybe adjust (that is, bend) the switches so the stack is held against the cam the whole time? Then I think you could retrieve your sandpaper and use it for something else.

#12 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

That seems like a good plan.....
Any hints or tips on how to, or exactly what to, bend?

#13 9 years ago

SteveFury

Pinside member

Atlanta, GA

11y 75,650 1,496 3

I would clean the contacts before bending anything. Here is a guide I made:

#14 9 years ago

BLM

wizardblom

Pinside member

's-heer Hendrikskinderen

11y 56,650 411 8 19

And check the screws holding the stack.
They must be tight, otherwise adjusting the contacts would not help.
The contacts must not be to close either, the pulsetime for the counters wil be to short then.

#15 9 years ago

TXT

textrivers

Pinside member

^^ Yeah, what they said. Let us know how it's looking after you clean the contacts and making sure the switch stack screws are nice and tight.

#16 9 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

11y 77,150 7,231

yea, i was assuming he tightened the stacks, since we had mentioned it earlier...

#17 9 years ago

BLM

wizardblom

Pinside member

's-heer Hendrikskinderen

11y 56,650 411 8 19

Sorry, read over it, that's what you get if you read to fast

#18 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

I lurve the internets!
I used to be a major contributor on a travel forum that was ruined by the BBC, and have put a few old cars back on the road thanks to help from forums. This place has not disappointed.
Thanks everyone for the help so far.

Ill get a chance to look at the machine later today.

#19 9 years ago

009

Agent009

Inactive member

Problem solved....

So i cleaned em all, and no change.
Removed stack and bent the bottom tab so it would stay pre55ed against the cam.
Still, no fix.
Bummed, but not deterred.

Sooooo....
I again removed the stack, which i must say, scared me a bit.
I pinched it back together and gave it a good inspection. The middle one seeemed as if it was bent up, almost always touching the contact above it.
For lack of anything better to do, i went ahead and bent it down a bit, reassembled....
And.....
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! - DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! - DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

I played a few games and it worked goood....
If it acts up again, ill know where to loook.

Thanks again to all who helped!!!
Yall, ROCK!

Space Mission repairs --------> Sorted!

#20 9 years ago

TXT

textrivers

Pinside member