(Topic ID: 241399)

Space Mission 1p 100,000 Score Reel Doesn't Advance


By Knxwledge

6 months ago



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  • 11 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by currieddog
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Space Mission 10k score reel (resized).jpg

#1 6 months ago

Not exactly sure how to phrase this but if I manually trip the 100,000 reel, it resets fine, but when I reach over 99,999 in score, the game does not turn the 100,000 reel over from a 0 to a 1. Tried finding topics of a similar nature but couldn't.

I'm thinking this could be a problem with the 10,000 reel not properly communicating with the 100,000 reel, or something wrong with the score motor? I have trouble reading schematics so anybody who can put it into plain English and/or explain the proper part of the schematic would be much appreciated

Added 178 days ago:

Edit: I meant 10,000 not 100,000

#2 5 months ago

Hmm. Space Mission has 10,000 point score reels and a light that comes on when you reach 100,000. I'll assume that that the problem is that you can't carry over from the 1000s score reel to the 10,000s score reel.
Space Mission 10k score reel (resized).jpg
Does it work any better for players 2-4? If so, you can assume that the switches on the Tilt relay and the 1000pt relay are good. That leaves just two things to check (in red): the connection through the Player Unit and the 9th position switch on the player 1 1000 point score reel. Use the wire colors on the schematic to find things and either short them one at a time with alligator clip test leads to see if that makes it work, or measure the resistance between points (with the power off) with your meter to see if those switches close.

/Mark

#3 5 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Hmm. Space Mission has 10,000 point score reels and a light that comes on when you reach 100,000. I'll assume that that the problem is that you can't carry over from the 1000s score reel to the 10,000s score reel.
[quoted image]
Does it work any better for players 2-4? If so, you can assume that the switches on the Tilt relay and the 1000pt relay are good. That leaves just two things to check (in red): the connection through the Player Unit and the 9th position switch on the player 1 1000 point score reel. Use the wire colors on the schematic to find things and either short them one at a time with alligator clip test leads to see if that makes it work, or measure the resistance between points (with the power off) with your meter to see if those switches close.
/Mark

Oh man I'm sorry, your comment made me realize I'm talking about the completely wrong area. It's the 10,000 relay that doesn't work, and since the 10,000 relay doesn't work, I can't test if the 100,000 light lights up. I confused myself because I assumed that the last relay would be the highest kind of digit (100,000's place). Also, because of how my game's been wired up before I got it, it's set to free play, and when I hit the start button again after starting a 1-player game, the game tries to reset itself again, then kicks the ball out as if its starting another 1 player game. Not sure how to get player 2-4 working. Thanks for the reply, I'll take a look at my game when I have the time.

#4 5 months ago

Okay so I tried connecting between these 2 points from the player unit to the wires that goes into position 9 on the 1,000 relay. Pics are shown. Nothing happened. Assuming the tilt relay and 1,000 point relay are good, does this mean the wire(s?) going from the player relay to the 1,000 relay 9th position are bad/shorted?

If it's not that, then how can I test the connection between the tilt and the 1,000 relay? Is the 1,000 relay located somewhere in pic 3 or am I completely offbase?

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#5 5 months ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Okay so I tried connecting between these 2 points from the player unit to the wires that goes into position 9 on the 1,000 relay. Pics are shown. Nothing happened.

I don't follow what you tried, and it's hard to tell from your photos what the wire colors are. Maybe you could rephrase with wire colors instead so we can refer back to the schematic? I don't have this game nor do most people who might be able to help so the schematic is all we have.

If you're going the alligator clip route, there are two experiments to try first:

1) Clip one lead to the brown wire going into the player unit (from the 1000 point relay switch) and the other lead to the blue-yellow wire coming out of the player unit. This effectively removes the player unit switch from the circuit. If the 1000 point score reel can carry over to the 10,000 point score reel with the test lead in place the problem is likely in the player unit wiper, contact or wiring.

2) Clip one lead to the blue-yellow wire coming into the 10,000 point score reel 9th position switch (from the player unit) and the other lead to the white-brown wire coming out of the 10,000 point score reel. Note that this switch is probably not on the pc board, but more likely an actual switch following a cam mounted to the score reel hub. Check the wire colors to be sure. In this experiment the 10,000 point score reel should fire every time the 1000 point relay fires.

What do you see when you do these experiments?

#6 5 months ago

You can manually test the 100K by flipping its switch. The 100Ks are at the top of the back box.

#7 5 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I don't follow what you tried, and it's hard to tell from your photos what the wire colors are. Maybe you could rephrase with wire colors instead so we can refer back to the schematic? I don't have this game nor do most people who might be able to help so the schematic is all we have.
If you're going the alligator clip route, there are two experiments to try first:
1) Clip one lead to the brown wire going into the player unit (from the 1000 point relay switch) and the other lead to the blue-yellow wire coming out of the player unit. This effectively removes the player unit switch from the circuit. If the 1000 point score reel can carry over to the 10,000 point score reel with the test lead in place the problem is likely in the player unit wiper, contact or wiring.
2) Clip one lead to the blue-yellow wire coming into the 10,000 point score reel 9th position switch (from the player unit) and the other lead to the white-brown wire coming out of the 10,000 point score reel. Note that this switch is probably not on the pc board, but more likely an actual switch following a cam mounted to the score reel hub. Check the wire colors to be sure. In this experiment the 10,000 point score reel should fire every time the 1000 point relay fires.
What do you see when you do these experiments?

Sorry for the non-descriptive write-up last time. I'll try my best to explain what I've done.

In regards to #1... I couldn't for the life of me find a solid brown wire anywhere connected to either the player unit or the 1,000 reel, so I wasn't able to test this. I believe I was able to properly test experiment #2... I found the blue-yellow wire connected to the player unit, and I hooked the other end to a brown-white wire that is attached to a small white piece of plastic that's attached to the coil on the 10,000 reel (not directly on the switch stack). Is this the brown-white wire you're referring to? When I did this the reel would advance once and then lock up and keep attempting to turn. When I just touched the alligator clip to the brown-white wire for a split second, the reel would advance with no problems.

#8 5 months ago

Until you get the free play jimmy-rigging figured out, you might try starting a game and then manually advancing the “coin” or “player count” unit on the mech board all the way up to 4 players and see if the game does play and advance from player to player as you test, might then help narrow down whether, as mentioned, this 10,000 issue is a problem with only pl 1, or also players 2-4.

#9 5 months ago

Good tip frenchmarky.

Quoted from Knxwledge:

I couldn't for the life of me find a solid brown wire anywhere connected to either the player unit or the 1,000 reel

The brown wire is between the Player unit and a normally open switch on 1000 point relay, not the 1000 point score reel. You can clip to it on either end, either at the Player unit or at the relay switch. The brown wire might not be soldered to the fiber contact board on the Player unit. It might be tied directly to the metal frame of the Player unit.

Quoted from Knxwledge:

I found the blue-yellow wire connected to the player unit, and I hooked the other end to a brown-white wire that is attached to a small white piece of plastic that's attached to the coil on the 10,000 reel (not directly on the switch stack). Is this the brown-white wire you're referring to? When I did this the reel would advance once and then lock up and keep attempting to turn. When I just touched the alligator clip to the brown-white wire for a split second, the reel would advance with no problems.

That sounds like the right wires, but connecting blue-yellow to white-brown shouldn't make anything fire.

If it's not clear from the schematic in reply #2 above, we're trying to sort out why the 1st player 10,000 point score reel won't advance when the 1000 point score reel passes 9000, right? For that to happen three switches need to close:
- the 9th position switch on the 1000 point score reel
- the player 1 position switch on the Player unit
- the switch on the 1000 point relay (since players 2-4 aren't working, we can't assume this switch is working)

By clipping in your test lead around one switch at a time, you're bypassing that switch to see if the circuit works without it to try to figure out which one isn't working. So if you've started a game and the game thinks you're ready to play, bypassing one of more of these switches should get the 10,000 point score reel to advance.

#10 5 months ago

Would these be the 1,000 relays? Another thing I've just realized which may be useful to know is that when I hit the start button and start the game, the player 2 and 4 1,000 relays make a few rotations during the "set up" phase, even when they start at 0 (the 2 relays circled in red are firing when this happens), but this doesn't happen to the player 1 and 3 1,000 relays.

Also Ive confirmed that the 100,000 light for all 4 players does come on if I manually touch the two contacts of each 100,000 relay together.

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#11 5 months ago
Quoted from Knxwledge:

Would these be the 1,000 relays?

Those relays, in order from the credit reel, are: 3&4 Reset, 1&2 Reset, 1000s, 100s, 10s.

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