Source for replacement round-head twist nails on front rail plates?

Greetings -

I've got a 1950s Bally bingo where a previous owner removed the surround plates for the magic squares and coin slot for polishing. The plates look great, but when they went back on the game they were attached with phillips-head screws. I'd like to replace the phillips screws with original-style round head twist screws, often called escutcheon pins. I've been looking for the nails with no success. Has anyone found a source for new nails in the original shape and head dimensions?

Thanks.

#2 7 years ago

NWB

bingopodcast

For Amusement Only Games

12y 131K 5,889 27 9

No, though if you find a source, please share! The little nail standoffs (collars) are also very difficult to find, and were only used on certain positions on certain plates on certain games - most notably the screen games.

#3 7 years ago

SteveinTexas

Pinside member

11y 83,050 1,560

Try Joe Shope in Salt Lake City, Utah http://[email protected]

I dropped one of them washer collars and never saw it again. and he replaced it.

#4 7 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

12y 102K 6,207 10

I bought some from PBR a couple years ago...send an email or call them.

#5 7 years ago

WAR

wayner

Pinside member

10y 95,300 2,587 25

Is this what you are seeking:
http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html then go to Siderail nails GTB FA701.

#6 7 years ago

NWB

bingopodcast

For Amusement Only Games

12y 131K 5,889 27 9

No, those are too long and too large, unfortunately. I haven't checked with Steve on the footrail nails, though - worth a shot! Joe is great to deal with as well, and he should be able to help you. I just wish there was a source for new nails.

#7 7 years ago

BES

Pinball_Muggle

Pinside member

Hugh had bought a box of 'em a bunch of years ago - small heads - flat underside - black tho - he gave me enough to restore my games . had to polish the black away- said he got the from a hardware/faster wholesale company and they were discontinuing them due to lack of demand. - shame too cuz they look great on my games.

#8 7 years ago

BCB

BlackCatBone

Pinside member

I checked with Joe and no dice. I need 24 for a full set, so he may be able to supply one or two, but not in the quantity I need. I'll post a link if I find a source for new escutcheon pins in the original dimensions.

I tried to remove original nails from the front rail of my parts game. I've done a pretty good job of destroying the plate the nails hold down without making the nails budge one bit. If someone has a technique for removing original nails, I'd love to hear it.

#9 7 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

12y 102K 6,207 10

You have to use a vicegrip and get it to bite the head...then twist them out like a screw. If you can't get a bite you need to use a chisel or something like a sharp flat head screwdriver to dig up the head so the vicegrip can grab it.

#10 7 years ago

BES

Pinball_Muggle

Pinside member

use a painter's pry bar ...

#11 7 years ago

BCB

BlackCatBone

Pinside member

Quoted from Pinball_Muggle:
use a painter's pry bar ...

Thanks... just ordered one.

#12 7 years ago

BES

Pinball_Muggle

Pinside member

slip the long tapered end under the plate and get them started up (they'er stubborn too) then follow kvan99's technique ...still cussing will be involved.

pasted_image (resized).png

#13 7 years ago

BES

Pinball_Muggle

Pinside member

Quoted from bingopodcast:
No, though if you find a source, please share! The little nail standoffs (collars) are also very difficult to find, and were only used on certain positions on certain plates on certain games - most notably the screen games.

For the record these were called "Risers" (Nail Risers would be more accurate I guess).

#14 7 years ago

NWB

bingopodcast

For Amusement Only Games

12y 131K 5,889 27 9

I think you told me that at some point. Just one of many things I forget all the time.

2 weeks later

#15 7 years ago

BCB

BlackCatBone

Pinside member

Quoted from wayner:
Is this what you are seeking:
http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html then go to Siderail nails GTB FA701.

Thanks for the tip. The PBR side rail nail looks similar to the bingo nails, with a slightly flatter profile to the nail head. However, with no dimensions listed, I'd have to order a batch to check the head diameter.

In the end I wound up salvaging 24 nails from my parts game. Fortunately the game had body armor that was attached back in the day with twist nails, and I got half of what I needed by removing the armor. Unfortunately I destroyed the front rail plates on my parts game while removing the twist nails. (I can't believe the holding power of those 60 year old nails.) It was for a good cause, though, and the look of original nails beats the hell out of the phillips-head screws I replaced.

4 months later

#16 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

Check this out!

Nail (resized).JPG

#17 7 years ago

YYY

baldtwit

Pinside member

Portola Valley, CA

7y 45,050 1,109

if someone wants to measure the originals, the closest I found to the right "domed" head shape was u-drive screws....like these:
http://rivetsonline.com/drive-screw/18-8-stainless-steel-drive-screws.html

the shaft may be too fat, tho. I've definitely pulled a few of these out of various machines.

I assume nobody cares about the helix...just the right head shape?

#18 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

Twit, Coos, from across the pond, sells these nails.
They seem different than the nails on pictures of newly restored units
that I have seen!

Coos nails (resized).jpg

#19 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from baldtwit:
if someone wants to measure the originals, the closest I found to the right "domed" head shape was u-drive screws....like these:
http://rivetsonline.com/drive-screw/18-8-stainless-steel-drive-screws.html
the shaft may be too fat, tho. I've definitely pulled a few of these out of various machines.
I assume nobody cares about the helix...just the right head shape?

These look like a good replacement for siderail nails, to hold the ball ramps to the siderails... The nails I have seem to be slightly smaller than a 1/8 which is .124 and 1/2 inch long. Going to buy a box of 4 by 1/2. If anybody wants some let me know

#20 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

"pinhead52", do you have a picture of the nail(s)?

#21 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

Here's a picture of my side rail nail.
I am assuming it is original!
It came out very easily!!

Side rail nail (resized).JPG

#22 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

Hold that thought on easy to remove.
The first one was, but, not most of the others!

#23 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Should not have called them siderail nails, PBR sells the standard nails. I need the shorter nails, 1/2 inch to hold the ball guides on the pf rails. I just ordered 4 by 1/2 inch (long)

#24 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Terry1:
Hold that thought on easy to remove.
The first one was, but, not most of the others!

yea, I use a wide plaster knife to get under the siderail and pull it out slightly then with vice grips grap head to twist and remove

#25 7 years ago

DRD

DennisDodel

Pinside+ Addict

St Louis, MO

12y 95,050 2,646

This is the correct size front rail nail. About ten years ago I found a local manufacturer who had agreed to manufacture these but they went out of business before they were able to get to them. Grrrr!
If anyone can find a place to make them, I would be glad to send some NOS ones for copying.

IMG_4517 (resized).JPG

IMG_4516 (resized).JPG

#26 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from DennisDodel:
This is the correct size front rail nail. About ten years ago I found a local manufacturer who had agreed to manufacture these but they went out of business before they were able to get to them. Grrrr!
If anyone can find a place to make them, I would be glad to send some NOS ones for copying.

the link above sells these, as I mentioned I sprang for some #4 by 1/2, I'll post a side by side pic when I get them

nail (resized).jpg

#27 7 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

13y 103K 4,831 11 16

Quoted from baldtwit:
if someone wants to measure the originals, the closest I found to the right "domed" head shape was u-drive screws....like these:
http://rivetsonline.com/drive-screw/18-8-stainless-steel-drive-screws.html
the shaft may be too fat, tho. I've definitely pulled a few of these out of various machines.
I assume nobody cares about the helix...just the right head shape?

Nice find

#28 7 years ago

DRD

DennisDodel

Pinside+ Addict

St Louis, MO

12y 95,050 2,646

Quoted from pinhead52:
the link above sells these, as I mentioned I sprang for some #4 by 1/2, I'll post a side by side pic when I get them

Man, that would be great if those work. Thanks for posting.

#29 7 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

What a great find you guys.
"pinhead52", I am really looking forward to the side by side pics!!!

#30 7 years ago

BCB

BlackCatBone

Pinside member

Quoted from pinhead52:
the link above sells these, as I mentioned I sprang for some #4 by 1/2, I'll post a side by side pic when I get them

I'm not seeing the "link above" that you referenced. Can you list it again? Thanks...

#31 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

http://rivetsonline.com/drive-screw/18-8-stainless-steel-drive-screws.html

OP
Quoted from BlackCatBone:
I'm not seeing the "link above" that you referenced. Can you list it again? Thanks...

#32 7 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Ok gang, got my order of nails in. #4 by 1/2. Nail is a little thicker than the existing spiral nail. May have to drill the ramp out to take nail. Being a little thicker probably helps going into the wood pf rails. Head is slightly larger as well. tempted to try the next size down. If anybody wants some of these LMK

20170425_160019_resized (resized).jpg

4 years later

#33 3 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

https://www.mcmaster.com/97810A210/

Bringing this back to life....how do these look?

#34 3 years ago

???

jj44114

Pinside member

8y 56,050 1,874 19

Ok but zinc with a dull finish. Original is nickel plated

#35 3 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

I'd have to try polishing it I guess to get it shiny.

Looks like Zitt mentioned these about 6 years ago in another thread!

These are used on a Chicago Coin Bullseye to fasten the backbox corner braces.

#36 3 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

I seem to have convinced McMaster-Carr to ship to me by using my work e-mail and company name (getting them to ship to Canada is hit & miss). I'll post photos when I get them.

#37 3 years ago

???

Terry1

Pinside member

Here's a couple of pictures of what I used and how it looks
Terry K

Bingo 1 (resized).jpg

Bingo 2 (resized).jpg

Drive screw (resized).jpg

#38 3 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Got 'em! Made in Japan, they are slightly skinnier than the original. Or maybe the originals had glue or some other crud on them. They look super, nice & shiny.

IMG_0859 (resized).JPG

IMG_0860 (resized).JPG

#39 3 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

so where did you order these? Shoudda got 1000 and resold them...

#40 3 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent