(Topic ID: 236512)

Sound not working on Eight Ball Deluxe LE


By Daditude

4 months ago



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  • 33 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Daditude
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 4 months ago

I have an Eight Ball Deluxe LE that has lost its speech. It was working fine then it just stopped. I have disconnected and reconnected pins, bought new sound chips, checked fuses, check speaker wires, cleaned (brushed) u8 and j2 and j1.

The board doesnt look that old, but i could be wrong.

Any suggestions?

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#2 4 months ago

I should mention that i have also tried the pots on the board and the coin door. There is some static/humming, but no speech.

#4 4 months ago

Hi thanks for buying the chips from me. Im sorry they didnt fix your issue. Next step would be a recap as those look like original caps.

#5 4 months ago

Does the LED on the Squawk and Talk sound board flash 5 times on powerup?
Is that a new TMS5200 speech chip I see installed at U8?
What test equipment have you got? Oscilloscope, logic probe, multi-meter..
What happens when you press the test button on the sound board? Normally it speaks a few phrases for about 10 seconds then ends with a single tone from another sound chip.
Are other sound effects (not speech) working?
What are you getting on TP9 when speech should be playing and when it shouldn't?
Are you measuring -5VDC at TP4 which is for the speech chip?

#6 4 months ago

Quench has all the things you need to check. Since the game was working and suddenly quit look for the most basic things first. Make sure the speaker is OK and the pot on the front door.

#7 4 months ago

Here is what I would do for a "no sound" condition:

Look for bad solder joints at the connectors and at those large diodes (the diodes get hot).

Recap the board.

Replace those cheap trimpots. They go bad internally.

Check/replace the the volume control on the coin door.

Check/replace the speaker.

#8 4 months ago

My EBD ST board was doing the same yours was. I mailed it out to Coin Op Cauldron. When it returned it was working. Needed new caps and some other stuff.

I'm a lazy guy so sending it out made the most sense. Like 80 bucks and a couple months and I had a working sound board.

#9 4 months ago

I will start checking these things out. If need be, where is the best place to get a squawk and talk sound board?

#10 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Does the LED on the Squawk and Talk sound board flash 5 times on powerup?
Is that a new TMS5200 speech chip I see installed at U8?
What test equipment have you got? Oscilloscope, logic probe, multi-meter..
What happens when you press the test button on the sound board? Normally it speaks a few phrases for about 10 seconds then ends with a single tone from another sound chip.
Are other sound effects (not speech) working?
What are you getting on TP9 when speech should be playing and when it shouldn't?
Are you measuring -5VDC at TP4 which is for the speech chip?

Does the LED on the Squawk and Talk sound board flash 5 times on powerup?
No. It flashes once...pauses...then 3 more times.
Is that a new TMS5200 speech chip I see installed at U8?

I have no idea. It was on there when i got it.

What test equipment have you got? Oscilloscope, logic probe, multi-meter..

Of those three, only a multimeter

What happens when you press the test button on the sound board?
Nothing.

Normally it speaks a few phrases for about 10 seconds then ends with a single tone from another sound chip.

Are other sound effects (not speech) working?
All i hear is buzzing

What are you getting on TP9 when speech should be playing and when it shouldn't?
Im not sure what you mean by this. There is nothing coming from t9 (it is a metal loop, right?)

Are you measuring -5VDC at TP4 which is for the speech chip?
I will check this and get back

#11 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

I will start checking these things out. If need be, where is the best place to get a squawk and talk sound board?

I do not believe these are available. So focus on repairing yours.

#12 4 months ago

does the g.i. on the playfield work? these boards need the ac voltage from the g.i.

#13 4 months ago
Quoted from Astill:

does the g.i. on the playfield work? these boards need the ac voltage from the g.i.

Yes, the G.I. AC voltage is used to create the -5VDC supply rail for the speech chip.

#14 4 months ago
Quoted from Astill:

does the g.i. on the playfield work? these boards need the ac voltage from the g.i.

Quoted from Quench:

Yes, the G.I. AC voltage is used to create the -5VDC supply rail for the speech chip.

All GI works.

#15 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Does the LED on the Squawk and Talk sound board flash 5 times on powerup?
No. It flashes once...pauses...then 3 more times.
Is that a new TMS5200 speech chip I see installed at U8?
I have no idea. It was on there when i got it.
What test equipment have you got? Oscilloscope, logic probe, multi-meter..
Of those three, only a multimeter
What happens when you press the test button on the sound board?
Nothing.
Normally it speaks a few phrases for about 10 seconds then ends with a single tone from another sound chip.
Are other sound effects (not speech) working?
All i hear is buzzing
What are you getting on TP9 when speech should be playing and when it shouldn't?
Im not sure what you mean by this. There is nothing coming from t9 (it is a metal loop, right?)
Are you measuring -5VDC at TP4 which is for the speech chip?
I will check this and get back

I dont seem to be getting anything from tp4...and with only 4 lights at the led, it looks like maybe that or the tms5200 could be the issue.

#16 4 months ago

Yes with 4 LED flashes, it appears to be failing at the TMS5200 test.
Test point TP4 should have negative 5 volts "-5VDC" which is a supply rail for the TMS5200. If you don't measure any voltage on TP4 it might explain why the TMS5200 test is failing.

The -5VDC comes from the voltage regulator "VR2" on the sound board. Check that the VR2 input is getting voltage to start with. With your multi-meter set to DC voltage, black lead hooked up to ground (you can use TP1 on the sound board which is a ground point) and put the red meter lead on the right leg of the electrolytic capacitor "C38" which is directly above the sound board connector. What negative voltage do you read there?

#17 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Yes with 4 LED flashes, it appears to be failing at the TMS5200 test.
Test point TP4 should have negative 5 volts "-5VDC" which is a supply rail for the TMS5200. If you don't measure any voltage on TP4 it might explain why the TMS5200 test is failing.
The -5VDC comes from the voltage regulator "VR2" on the sound board. Check that the VR2 input is getting voltage to start with. With your multi-meter set to DC voltage, black lead hooked up to ground (you can use TP1 on the sound board which is a ground point) and put the red meter lead on the right leg of the electrolytic capacitor "C38" which is directly above the sound board connector. What negative voltage do you read there?

TP1 and C38 measure 4.2

#18 4 months ago

Maybe i am testing tp4 incorrectly. What is the correct way to test it?

#19 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

TP1 and C38 measure 4.2

That voltage is too low. I'd be expecting somewhere between -11VDC and -15VDC.
Initial hunch is that the electrolytic capacitors at C37 and C38 are not charging enough and are bad or one of diodes CR7 or CR8 is faulty.

Quoted from Daditude:

Maybe i am testing tp4 incorrectly. What is the correct way to test it?

Set your multi-meter to read DC voltage. If your meter is not auto-ranging set it to the 20VDC range.
Hook the black meter lead to TP1 on the sound board which is ground.
Then touch the red meter lead on the sound boards test point TP4.
What measurement do you get? Please also list if the minus sign comes up on the meter display with the voltage measurement.

As @Astill mentioned above, it might be worth replacing the electrolytic capacitors on this sound board.

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

That voltage is too low. I'd be expecting somewhere between -11VDC and -15VDC.
Initial hunch is that the electrolytic capacitors at C37 and C38 are not charging enough and are bad or one of diodes CR7 or CR8 is faulty.

Set your multi-meter to read DC voltage. If your meter is not auto-ranging set it to the 20VDC range.
Hook the black meter lead to TP1 on the sound board which is ground.
Then touch the red meter lead on the sound boards test point TP4.
What measurement do you get? Please also list if the minus sign comes up on the meter display with the voltage measurement.
As @Astill mentioned above, it might be worth replacing the electrolytic capacitors on this sound board.

I eork all day until very late. I will test it again when i get home. Thanks for the help.

#21 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

That voltage is too low. I'd be expecting somewhere between -11VDC and -15VDC.
Initial hunch is that the electrolytic capacitors at C37 and C38 are not charging enough and are bad or one of diodes CR7 or CR8 is faulty.

Set your multi-meter to read DC voltage. If your meter is not auto-ranging set it to the 20VDC range.
Hook the black meter lead to TP1 on the sound board which is ground.
Then touch the red meter lead on the sound boards test point TP4.
What measurement do you get? Please also list if the minus sign comes up on the meter display with the voltage measurement.
As @Astill mentioned above, it might be worth replacing the electrolytic capacitors on this sound board.

TP4 is reading -4.9

#22 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

TP4 is reading -4.9

That's better.

When you press the self test button on the sound board, do you hear a tone beep after about 10 seconds? The tone comes from a different (not speech) sound chip on the board.

Can you swap the two 6821 chips with each other at U7 and at U11 (they're the same chips). Reinstall them in the same direction you removed them. One of these chips communicates with the TMS5200 speech chip. See if the LED flash sequence changes.

#23 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

That's better.
When you press the self test button on the sound board, do you hear a tone beep after about 10 seconds? The tone comes from a different (not speech) sound chip on the board.
Can you swap the two 6821 chips with each other at U7 and at U11 (they're the same chips). Reinstall them in the same direction you removed them. One of these chips communicates with the TMS5200 speech chip. See if the LED flash sequence changes.

There is no tone beep after 10 seconds, but switching the chips did yield 5 flashes

#24 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

but switching the chips did yield 5 flashes

Your board looks in good condition but maybe the chip sockets have seen better days.
Can you post some picture of the original ROMs you pulled from this board? Just want to see what condition the legs were in.

Quoted from Daditude:

There is no tone beep after 10 seconds,

When you press the self test button, do you hear any clicking noises or anything? In case the button isn't working press it a few times incase it's internally dirty and then restart the machine.
On Eight Ball Deluxe, 10-15 seconds after pressing the self test button on the sound board and it's performed its sound test, the board will reboot and perform the self test LED flashing again. Are you seeing the LED flashes 10-15 seconds after pressing the self test button?

BTW, what happens when you put the game in sound test mode by pressing the little button inside the coin door four times?

#25 4 months ago

From the picture it looks like there is oxidation on the leads of at least some of the IC chips. Those may need to be cleaned and it may be time for new DIP sockets. I have a similar board in my Elektra and am getting ready to rebuild another that was missing several ICs. In the past I've had to replace a bad 6810 to get a sound card working.

#26 4 months ago

Your board looks in good condition but maybe the chip sockets have seen better days.
Can you post some picture of the original ROMs you pulled from this board? They look pretty good to me, but i will post them.

When you press the self test button, do you hear any clicking noises or anything?
I hear nothing

In case the button isn't working press it a few times incase it's internally dirty and then restart the machine.
On Eight Ball Deluxe, 10-15 seconds after pressing the self test button on the sound board and it's performed its sound test, the board will reboot and perform the self test LED flashing again. Are you seeing the LED flashes 10-15 seconds after pressing the self test button?
Yes

BTW, what happens when you put the game in sound test mode by pressing the little button inside the coin door four times?

No sound

#27 4 months ago

Some general info for you...

http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/squawk.htm

#28 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

- Are you seeing the LED flashes 10-15 seconds after pressing the self test button?
Yes

Ok, so it may be pointing more to a problem in the audio mixer/amplifier stages. If you adjust the two small pots on the sound board up and down, do you get any scratchy noises through the speaker?

#29 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Ok, so it may be pointing more to a problem in the audio mixer/amplifier stages. If you adjust the two small pots on the sound board up and down, do you get any scratchy noises through the speaker?

Yes. I can get some humming and scratching noises, but no speech

#30 4 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Yes. I can get some humming and scratching noises, but no speech

We can presume the amplifiers are somewhat working if while adjusting the pots you get scratchy noises.

Inside the head there is a bare wire braid running along the bottom. This is a ground strap. Put your black multi-meter lead under the wire braid at a tight point so it's connected to ground and leave it there.
Set your multi-meter to DC voltage. If it isn't an auto-ranging meter set it to 2 volts DC.

Put the red meter lead on test point TP9 on the sound board. You should measure a steady voltage around 1.33 volts. What do you read?
Press the test button on the sound board. Do you see the voltage on TP9 change a little bit until the LED starts flashing again? Roughly what range does the voltage change between?

1 week later
#31 4 months ago

It looks like the caps are the next step. I will get them done and report back.

#32 4 months ago

The tms chip has silver legs. Remove and clean the tarnish off and do the caps and pots. I bet it will work.

#33 4 months ago
Quoted from Fordiesel69:

The tms chip has silver legs. Remove and clean the tarnish off and do the caps and pots. I bet it will work.

I already tried it and no dice. I had a local restorer/repairer come out and he said it looks like the caps are the issue, so i sent my board out to get fixed.
Hopefully all should work afterward. I will report back.

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