Congratulations on the hard work paying off! It's always nice to see the manufactures bringing in some new design talent.

well unless they add something big I don't see much of an way to do an stern pro cutdown of this game.

It was great to meet you yesterday and have my first real-life glimpse of Sonic. Didn't get a chance to play it yet but I will be giving it a shot at first opportunity.

(Oh, and thanks for lending me your hex driver!)

Finally got to play this at MGC today, what a treat! The ramp layout is unique to shoot, I LOVED ripping the spinners and shooting the upper loop. The code and audio/video were perfectly integrated!

Is it true that Stern got the license to sonic to prevent this game from being built?

If they did that would upset me. It would be Godzilla all over again.

Where is this coming from? I saw it on Kaneda's FB page as a meme but haven't heard it as anything more than a rumor.

If American hired Ryan to produce this game you'd think they would have done due diligence to ensure they could get the license.

Did American ever say they hired Ryan specifically to produce this game? If so I haven't seen it. The knowledge and skills he's demonstrated in making Spinball would make him an attractive employee for ANY future pinball game in my opinion. Smart move on their part to snatch him up regardless of this game ever getting mass produced

Agree 100%. And no, American hasn't said anything about this game in particular. I'm just stating that if behind the scenes part of the motivation is to produce this game, then I imagine they at least checked on whether the license was obtainable.

Admittedly, I'm not a licensing expert, but can't AP license the movie franchise instead of the game? I'm not sure if the licensing gives exclusive rights for the entire IP to one pinball manufacturer, by that I mean if you license the game, does it give you the rights to the game, movie, comic books etc..etc or just that particular license that you sought? In Stern's case, I'm guessing they licensed the game itself.

I'm a lawyer, but not an IP lawyer. I can say that in contracts in general it's quite common to have preclusion or proximity language in contracts. For example, company A enters a contract to license the game and a condition of the contract is that the licensor is precluded from licensing the character/subject matter/or any related IP to another company for a period of time.

some right of first refusal from the sega pinball days?

Um. That would be fantastic?

You’d rather have Spooky’s Godzilla than Elwin’s? And I say this as a Spooky fan.

You’d think, but it wouldn’t shock me if Stern locked it in the second they saw people excited about it…not to mention what a hit the movies have been. Stern used to be Sega - who knows, maybe they had some perpetual license.

Totally forgot about Stern”s past ties to Sega. Wouldn’t surprise me if American called up for the license and it went something like this. “We’ll get right back to you.” Then ten seconds after hanging up the the phone with American Sega dialed another number and were like “Hey Gary, I just got a call from some guy wanting to license Sonic…”

I guess it’s more likely to be similar to what happened with Godzilla. Spooky approached them to buy a license. Then the licensor thought, I wonder what other pinball companies may offer for the license and as a business partner, and approached other companies to sell the license.

There’s no way Stern has any sort of access to Sonic IP simply because they were once a subsidiary of Segas arcade division for a few years.

Anyway, I think American Pinball should still be thrilled they hired a guy with the skills, eye for design, and passion to build such a great game mostly by himself. Just think of what Ryan can do with a team of engineers, coders, artists, and other designers to execute on his ideas for other games/themes.

“No way” “any sort”. Those are pretty strong absolutes you’re speaking in. Sorry, but that’s not how business works. I used to be a corporate accountant for a Fortune 500 firm. I worked with a lot of high up sales vps and and saw the expense reports. It’s a lot more about schmoozing and building long term relationships than anything else, trust me.

Unfortunately I'll never know. Spooky's Godzilla never came to be because Stern poached the license from them.

I just played Ultraman last night and based on how that game turned out I am so glad Stern stole the license for Godzilla

Sure someone active in the licensing department could theoretically still know Gary (though I really doubt it considering it was about 25 years ago that Stern was spun off and Sega has gotten rid of their entire arcade division since then). I was speaking more to people who thought Stern has had some sort of right of first refusal or other nonsense. Sega of Japan never cared about Stern Pinball. It was just an investment in their portfolio for a few years.

I’m sure the American division of Sega (I assume there still is one) would deal with all this stuff. From all the docs I’ve seen about the Japanese gaming companies, they learned pretty quickly back in the day to be hands off with their American divisions because they had no knowledge of the market or culture.

C'mon, let's not be disingenuous. Elwin/Stern's Godzilla is a masterpiece. Pinball AS A WHOLE is better off for Stern getting Godzilla. "Poached" is a bit extreme...if Spooky wanted Godzilla, they could have gotten Godzilla years before Stern did. Charlie loved Godzilla & was making pinball. You snooze, you lose. Besides, it's not like Godzilla was some niche thing that was unlikely to be licensed by Stern. They already did Godzilla when they were Sega, and Godzilla is a current + nostalgic property. Totally the type of thing Stern would grab. Spooky didn't act when they should have. Anyway, it all worked out. Spooky has been very successful.

I suggest reading the book Console Wars which covers the Genesis vs SNES era. It covers a lot of the history and cultural differences of both Sega and Nintendo, and how the American and Japanese sides would interact. They didn't get along at all. Example Sega of America tried to work with Sony to make the Sega PlayStation when Nintendo abandoned the Nintendo PlayStation project, but Sega Japan vetoed it and started to develop the Saturn. We all know how that went...

Ive been meaning to pick up Reggie Fils Aime's new book which discusses some of the issues that were still present in the Japan-America divide when he was in charge of NOA.

Plus AP snagging him has impacted his availability to beat me in as many local tournies! IFPA points baby!!!

This this and more this. Even if Sonic doesn't get made (which would make me a saaaaad panda), clearly they've made a great hire. I have no insight into the Sonic licensing speculation going on but just from a business standpoint, they've hired an awesome guy with spectacular experience who will certainly be contributing in a hugely positive way -- no matter his assignments.

Rumor has it that JJP has the Sonic license for Sonic 1,2 and 3.
Sonic Spinball baby
Isn't it better that Jack got this since they love doing kiddie titles?

Amen to that. Looking forward to your next game

this is why many themes people throw out don't get done, there's not enough people with passion about the theme.

This is why we got munsters instead of Beetlejuice.
This is why we still have no goonies (though there is a homebrew retheme, and we would have gotten a newly designed game if deeproot weren't such a cluster of a company)

As someone who is building their own pinball, regardless if Sonic gets mass produced or not, they made a great hire. Looking forward to what you bring to the game!

And Ryan has been awesome, I've shared some of my progress and asked a couple questions. Always answered and had great insight.

Oh yeah, you can tell when a game is designed by someone who loves the material, versus someone just "doing their job" designing to a given theme. From what little I had the chance to experience on this game, it's pretty clear you knew every little franchise detail and how to work it into a pinball element. I've barely even followed the actual Sonic series and even I can tell how much effort was put into this design.

Umm … no. Quite the contrary. Congrats on the new gig.

Also it's nice to see the push for an fun game with out the need to put in the deep deep combo rules that some other games have.

Please American Pinball, please pay the price of admission to get this license. So much of your R&D cost is already done via the homebrew. Straight to market!

Hate to break it to ya: https://www.knapparcade.org/post/a-sonic-spinball-pinball-machine-may-be-coming-from-stern

stern (sega pinball) may of had some standing rights to an sonic game or at very least first right of refusal / 1st option.

But will they even make an game?? just got the rights to stop others?? Sonic was in so many games where there some no full sonic game deal made and that also = no other pinball place can make one??

Generally speaking, it might seem "straight to market", but the problem with a homebrew brought to licensed production is that NOTHING has been vetted by the IP holder, and the contract would require the product to be reviewed, preferably at all phases of development. Odds are it'll require just as much work bringing to market as a new pinball would. Depending on the IP holder, it could be anywhere from "change this mode or eliminate it" to "this is nothing like what we'd like to see, throw it all out and start over." In fact, odds are good if we see it at all, it'll be the layout alone with another theme over the top of it.

Really, doing a full homebrew pinball with the aim of getting into the industry is with the idea of using it as a "resume piece", showing you can do the work to build a pinball experience from the ground up, not as a final product to be produced immediately.

how much control does the IP holder have over modes? I don't thing they really need to check each update?? and if they do with games online better have an way to have os updates with out needing an some IP holder to ok them.

As for change this mode is that is more of an art / sound thing then rules. Maybe some stacking limits (on the sound / art side of things)

But as for this homebrew the rules seem to be very good from an big time coder (now it does need the other basic pinball stuff coded in)
but then American Pinball does not have the very old OS that stern has been porting over the years and still has the old DMD test in the service menu on the spike 2 games

now archer did made (re themed with some cost cutting done as well). But that homebrew did not really have deep code in it.

It depends entirely on the IP holder, but in a lot of cases they can have a LOT of control over how the table looks and feels. And it can include a list of "here's what you can't do", which may or may not require reworking the table itself. There might be proscriptions against certain characters or areas being used in certain modes, and requirements that a character be given a specific mode that may not have been in the original design.

Kind of hoping it's not true.

Screenshot_20220525-214451_Chrome (resized).jpg

#1 in pinball but still pulling no class moves

Crap I was hoping American or JJP was doing this!

but they may of had an long term option on sonic and look at the movies.

stern goes to an IP show every year. just because they took a photo with sonic means nothing. if every photo gary took came true we would already have a wutang pinball.

Yea....too bad no one is building one....

wutang_pf_snippet (resized).png

Congratulations but I still wish you were bringing your Sonic Spinball to fruition.

Yours look a lot better