Quoted from SLCpunk2113:I think it’s cool but can you make it work from the player’s perspective?
Not sure. Wasnt going to waste the effort trying if I didnt like it at all, so i threw this mock up together.
(Topic ID: 257587)
Linked Games
Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball
Ryan McQuaid , 2020
Topic Gallery
Minneapolis, MN
Reichenau Im Mühlkreis
Quoted from McSquid:Do we love or hate this as a concept?
Best spinner ever
Just gets cooler and cooler by the minute. Would love to see this get picked up or McSquid get picked up somewhere. Dudes got skills.
Quoted from McSquid:Do we love or hate this as a concept?
Awesome idea!! Could make the legs a foil sticker and under-light it like Star Trek spinner.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Idk how I like the look of the sonic head on top vs him being entirely on the spinner, although the aspect ratio may make the graphic too small
What about Sonic wagging his finger like the splash screen?
[quoted image]
Good idea, but I want to tie together the spinners with the speed system as much as possible and sonic running make the most sense for that.
Simply put the spinner is actually brilliant, make his shoes a brighter red for more contrast I bet it will draw the eye more.
Quoted from McSquid:Do we love or hate this as a concept?
Love. Certainly more creative than all the glitter spinners Stern has put out over the years.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Idk how I like the look of the sonic head on top vs him being entirely on the spinner, although the aspect ratio may make the graphic too small
What about Sonic wagging his finger like the splash screen?
[quoted image]
No way. The spinner builds speed. Perfect theme integration.
Would it be interesting for you how fast the ball actually travells? I wrote some code to accurately measure the speed between two switches/optos in MPF. Never actually committed it but still got it laying around. If your hardware platform does timestamp switch hits (i.e. P/P3-Roc) we use that - otherwise we timestamp switch changes when we read them from the hardware.
Quoted from jabdoa:Would it be interesting for you how fast the ball actually travells? I wrote some code to accurately measure the speed between two switches/optos in MPF. Never actually committed it but still got it laying around. If your hardware platform does timestamp switch hits (i.e. P/P3-Roc) we use that - otherwise we timestamp switch changes when we read them from the hardware.
I had considered something like that. I can't decide if I'd love it, or if the real world speeds would break imersion.
Quoted from McSquid:I had considered something like that. I can't decide if I'd love it, or if the real world speeds would break imersion.
What if a fast shot gave you a minor % bump in score/completing goals related to the shot? Like make a few speed ranges and award an extra 0/5/10/15% on a jackpot shot. Sorta like a AIQ’s tower
Quoted from McSquid:I had considered something like that. I can't decide if I'd love it, or if the real world speeds would break imersion.
I don’t know if this would be any better, but you could measure the speed, but show the player a boosted number. Like in the real world a ball traveling 30mph would show up to the player as 300mph, or 3000mph. So it’s still based on a real measurement, but is exaggerated to keep it in the Sonic universe. But I dunno, maybe that still doesn’t fit well.
Quoted from TreyBo69:What if a fast shot gave you a minor % bump in score/completing goals related to the shot? Like make a few speed ranges and award an extra 0/5/10/15% on a jackpot shot. Sorta like a AIQ’s tower
I don't see how measuring actual speed would add much to the game. There's only so much a player could do in that respect, given the nature of gameplay and the limits of the physics. Even repeatedly looping through a spinner hits a speed limit quickly. I think his spinner->speed mechanism nicely marries classic pinball play with the source game's theme.
Quoted from UNCgump:I don't see how measuring actual speed would add much to the game. There's only so much a player could do in that respect, given the nature of gameplay and the limits of the physics. Even repeatedly looping through a spinner hits a speed limit quickly. I think his spinner->speed mechanism nicely marries classic pinball play with the source game's theme.
I don't think I'd ever do anything with it in the rules other than maybe a high score name entry? Maybe an end of ball bonus tops. It would just be more of a "hey neat" like American pinball's play time/points per second statistics at the end of the game.
Quoted from RikeIsland:How about a video mode to collect rings for an extra ball after beating a mode?
No video modes. Nothing I could do that wouldn't just be a crappier version of one of the games. We have bonus levels but they are all pinball
Could do a ring collect mode after losing your last ball for a chance to get your ball back. Kind of like “no place like home” on woz
I LOVE that spinner, great idea!!
A sensor to determine rate of rotation of the spinner could give data towards the cycling of a flasher pointed at the spinner for a robust (and over-engineered) stroboscopic zoetropic effect.
Quoted from Chosen_S:Could do a ring collect mode after losing your last ball for a chance to get your ball back. Kind of like “no place like home” on woz
Or as a kind of earned ball save opportunity, but of course with a timer to collect X number of rings.
I don't think ball save modes are really necessary. The shield system is already quite generous (probably too much so) considering they don't go away when you use them. I think any game modes I program will be part of the main game. Extra ball already lights when 100 "banked rings" are obtained (a banked ring is a ring you have finished a level with that is contributing to your end of ball bonus for the rest of the game) I chose this approach since its almost impossible to get 100 at once outside of a bonus stage and 100 ring extra lives aren't awarded on bonus stages.
I'm loving the discussion though! Thanks for helping make the game as good as it can be! Cant wait to see you all at Expo and Pintastic!
I'll be streaming building today. MIGHT end up flipping by the end of the day.
Twitch.TV/Ryan_McSquid
Quoted from McSquid:I don't think ball save modes are really necessary. The shield system is already quite generous (probably too much so) considering they don't go away when you use them. I think any game modes I program will be part of the main game. Extra ball already lights when 100 "banked rings" are obtained (a banked ring is a ring you have finished a level with that is contributing to your end of ball bonus for the rest of the game) I chose this approach since its almost impossible to get 100 at once outside of a bonus stage and 100 ring extra lives aren't awarded on bonus stages.
I'm loving the discussion though! Thanks for helping make the game as good as it can be! Cant wait to see you all at Expo and Pintastic!
I'll be streaming building today. MIGHT end up flipping by the end of the day.
Twitch.TV/Ryan_McSquid
You make good points and clearly know this game in greater detail than I do...
Shes flippin again!
Still a lot of work to do, but it's nice to get to flip on v2
V2 initial thoughts:
- left orbit is noticeably easier. Higher spin dashes for sure, doubt it will be 10+ or anything but 5 no longer seems like it would be unreasonable. Almost never rattles out, almost always goes around as long as you hit it even vaguely clean
- loop shot is significantly tighter, but it doesn't FEEL tighter. This is good. It also means I didn't ruin the loop shot when I moved the entire left side down. Still goes in from slings occasionally, still backflippable (not backhandable)
- right ramp is the biggest difference in feel. The backhand is perfect. Forhand shots keep momentum around the curve and spin the signpost nice and fast. I don't feel any need to change this again unless it's to fix something unrelated.
- pop area seems like it has more action, last pop target gets hit way more often (mystery lights easier)
- flippers are slightly closer together, feels more fair. (Pretty sure they were like Ghostbusters gap before. Not intentional.)
- outlanes still get ya but they aren't super hungry anymore either
- playfield isn't warped (yaaaaaay)
- shooter lane hits orbit very smoothly. Auto plunger has no trouble getting all the way around.
- loop still works well. inconsistent exit. Will need to tweak to make sure it hits the spinner. Can probably turn the power down now that the arm isn't at half distance
I'll be working on it throughout the week and weekend to bring it back up to speed (ha.)
FJIMG_20210908_222741 (resized).jpgBrought the game upstairs out of the dungeon. Fixed all the major issues we had when first booting V2, found myself playing instead of working. I really like this game 
Light rails v2 are now completed. They are mounted directly to the playfield instead of the cab magnets. This means I don't need to remove them everytime I lift the playfield, and they feel way more legit and part of the game instead of a hacky mod.
I got some 1/2 steel stock from Lowes. Unfortunately it's way thicker than I wanted but it's what they had. The result are VERY sturdy brackets that took a really long time to make haha. I will still need to order some 1/2 inch stock for mounting tabs and brackets that don't need to be quite so crazy strong, but it's nice to know I can run out and get some.
Next is a bunch of software stuff. Light shows, bug fixes, hopefully some new features. I might do a coding stream because some of you mentioned you would like to see that. I'll do a gameplay stream for sure. Maybe I can set that up for tomorrow night.
FJIMG_20210909_172754 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210909_181214 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210910_200831 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_193441 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_201553 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_223905 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_223913 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_223920 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_224016 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210911_225523 (resized).jpgAlright McSquid I'm curious: What are your conditions for selling or licensing this design to a manufacturer? For example, if Stern made it but wanted to take the sign post and light strips off the Pro, would you be cool with that? Or is it take it or leave it? I know you probably can't say too much, but a window into that process seems fascinating.
Quoted from onemilemore:Alright McSquid I'm curious: What are your conditions for selling or licensing this design to a manufacturer? For example, if Stern made it but wanted to take the sign post and light strips off the Pro, would you be cool with that? Or is it take it or leave it? I know you probably can't say too much, but a window into that process seems fascinating.
this game will need some added toys / ramps to be an stern LE.
maybe cut the light strips and make them an add on for the pro.
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:this game will need some added toys / ramps to be an stern LE.
maybe cut the light strips and make them an add on for the pro.
If I were to add on to a premium version of the game id go with a supercharger on the left ramp, as well as a few other things im not quite ready to reveal in case they work and are awesome
Sorry I can't find this searching through the thread but I am curious...what lights did you use for the light rails?
Quoted from McSquid:If I were to add on to a premium version of the game id go with a supercharger on the left ramp, as well as a few other things im not quite ready to reveal in case they work and are awesome
Oh yeah something like the HS2 supercharger but with the sound FX of Sonic charging up his spin, that's a perfect thematic fit!
Quoted from Palmer:Sorry I can't find this searching through the thread but I am curious...what lights did you use for the light rails?
I saw the previous posts about the flippers on the art and was wondering if you had considered maybe swapping the Chaos emeralds and the art so that the actual flippers are where the art ones are?
Probably a wiring nightmare now but it was a thought I had. I still wanna by the V1 robotnik egg timer :p
New spin dash lights and speed gauge are coded and working!
I'm going to be tweaking the spindash light shows but this gets the point across.
The speed gauge came out exactly as I hoped it would. I'm so happy with it. I ended up needing a light baffle to avoid oversaturating the insert. It didn't look like a bar at all, just sort of changed color and brightness. I designed and printed one in black but it was way too much blocking. I could see it from above, it didn't line up, etc. So I made another out of clear, and tweaked the design. That one didn't block enough light. Finally I printed the second design in black and the results were perfect. Thanks Goldilocks.
FJIMG_20210913_191744 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210913_192602 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210914_143707 (resized).jpgFJIMG_20210914_162512 (resized).jpgMore high scores at last!
If I think of anything particularly clever for spindash ill change it. Dizzy is the best i can come up with and i dont like it enough.
Each of the icons that is supposed to actually tell you something about the award us animated slightly. It greatly entertains me. I'll worry about proper explanations for them later. time crunch and all that.
Perhaps more exciting to me is analytics. After my day of play testing I found out I could easily add to the audits the game naturally keeps track of. Tonight I went nuts telling the game to keep track of tons more. Can't wait for an entire weekend full of data!
I think I'm gonna do a gameplay stream on Sunday. Been working on polish and light shows and realized I haven't streamed v2 yet. Will probably be around 5-6pm ET
Quoted from McSquid:More high scores at last!
If I think of anything particularly clever for spindash ill change it. Dizzy is the best i can come up with and i dont like it enough.
Each of the icons that is supposed to actually tell you something about the award us animated slightly. It greatly entertains me. I'll worry about proper explanations for them later. time crunch and all that.
Perhaps more exciting to me is analytics. After my day of play testing I found out I could easily add to the audits the game naturally keeps track of. Tonight I went nuts telling the game to keep track of tons more. Can't wait for an entire weekend full of data!
[quoted image]
Dash Master?
Last night's unscheduled stream:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1152943052?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=vod
New grand champion. 102m, hour and a half game. Will probably stream again tonight after fixing the bugs we found last night.
I got too tired to stream. I'll do one either tomorrow or Wednesday night.
I did, however, fix all the bugs I encountered yesterday (plus some more) and finally made a light show for bonus slots. Its not my favorite but I think it fits. very used-car-lot/cheap Christmas lights feel to it haha.
I didn't want to stream at all this week so I finally overhauled the badnik system. I have been putting it off for a year now I think (however old bonus slots is) because the animations I had planned were gonna be a huge pain.
I need to do complex animations in Adobe after effects because there are limits to what you can do with kivy (MPF) things such as a bunny hopping away or sonic going around the loop smoothly are just beyond kivy's abilities. This however comes at the cost of the animations being dynamic.
When I made the initial animal animations, they were just popping out of thin air. there was nothing wrong with that, but when I planned badnik frenzy I decided I wanted animated badniks on screen. The setup had to be procedural, so that it could have some variety without horrible brute force code. This meant having predetermined "stations" where any badnik could hang out instead of arbitrary locations. The problem is that I didn't have this in mind when making the complex animal animations so their start points were in the wrong place and had to be redone. I kept putting it off because I hadn't opened aftereffects in 6+ months and was dreading relearning it all for this.
Well with my list of major "finish before shows" options pleasantly dwindling I finally put my nose to the grindstone and did it last night. Redoing the animal animations took a few hours, but at the end each of them started at one of 4 points, a flying and ground station for each side of the screen.
With that done, the badnik system overhaul could begin. I blasted out 1000 lines of code without testing any of it (cause I'm not a good coder) and it all just worked exactly as I intended first try. Honestly scary. That never happens.
The main purpose of badniks is to make missing a shot less disappointing. If the game makes a noise and gives you some points or a collectable, a miss doesn't feel wasted. If you also eventually make this collectable start something (like a multiball) it can be used to give less experienced players something to accomplish without any advanced accuracy or skill. (Think casual players who know enough to keep the ball alive for a bit, but not how to aim) Link this to one of your playfield toys and suddenly your physical toys aren't locked behind rules anymore. Yay!
Old system: whenever you hit a stand up that has no ring lit, you collect a badnik. Didn't work well. Sometimes you would get a ring and a badnik for the same shot, sometimes nothing. This is because I'm hooking into the ring mode's variables for the checks, and it may or may not be updated by the time badnik mode reads the data. Animal pops out of random point in space and scampers off. They just add to end of ball bonus until frenzy is implimeted.
New system:
Whenever you hit (not collect, lightning shield doesn't help) a lit ring you will also light a badnik. When a badnik is lit, it animates on to the screen and hangs out. To destroy the badnik, hit any ring standup target that is NOT lit for a ring (main shots don't count). This causes one of the badniks on screen to explode, and the animal runs away just like the games. You can only light 4 badniks at a time. If you hit a target that would normally destroy a badnik, but no badniks are lit, it will light one instead. I might need to find a sound effect for lighting a badnik to achieve the no disappointment effect, though nothing in the games comes to mind.
I love this system and I love the animations. Totally worth it. I can also now quickly and easily finish badnik frenzy as all the pieces are there and completed. Badnik frenzy will be a multiball with infinite badniks lit, but also a miniboss will appear allowing access to the Robotnik toy without beating a level. Making this play nicely with the existing boss is gonna be annoying because I didn't know what I was doing when I wrote the boss mode, but I'll make it work!
Second image is 3 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Mess with the crabbo and you get the stabbo.
FB_IMG_1632372165103 (resized).jpgFB_IMG_1632372171395 (resized).jpgBadnik Frenzy/miniboss mode is %100 done. All animations, videos, lights, everything. Even made it play nice with other modes.
Now I just need to balance how many it will take to start each time. I want the first time to be EASY. I want it to happen on all but the absolute worst of games. I think I'll push back the first mania multiball a bit to make room. Start with 8 rings per lock instead of 6.
Ill stream it tomorrow if possible. Now that I knocked out the entire thing I will be drained of coding energy for a while and will be excited to play with it.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
