(Topic ID: 157328)

Sonic Super Straight - Some Targets and Lights Not Working

By jackblotto

5 years ago

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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jackblotto
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#1 5 years ago

Just got the game this weekend and am in the process of ordering a manual and schematics for this game. Trying to work my way through some things without them.

First problem is that the Advance Bonus When Lit lights are not working, nor is the Spinner 1,000 when Lit light. Suppose it could be all of those sockets, but suspecting something more sinister at work. I think the scoring bonus itself may be on at times when the right sequence of targets are hit, but the lights are never on. The Spinner light also never come on. On EM's how does the socket get lit once you hit a certain stage? Is there a particular relay or something I should be targeting?

Second problem is there are 2 switches along the outer playfield, around the middle up in the area of the pop bumpers. These 2 switches are not labeled at all and when hitting them during gameplay, nothing happens. Not even sure what it supposed to happen? Anybody know what those are for so I can look for a relay or something that they run to? The one on the left is just above the hole capture feature.

Thanks, D

#2 5 years ago

man, there are a lot of those out there, fun game.
the lights prob controlled by a step unit, look for one labeled advance, or bonus, or something like that, sorry, cant remember exact name. if you find it, manually advance it, and see if lights lite

#3 5 years ago

Will try that, thanks.

#4 5 years ago

Hi David
"Switches with NO function" ? Do You mean "my encircled green places" ? In the left bottom corner I see a standup switch behind the rubber. These switches usually give 10 points. Greetings Rolf


#5 5 years ago

Yes Rolf, those are the ones. So I should be able to follow the wires back to a 10 Pt relay, correct? Without the schematics, this is tough. Need those to get here quickly.

Thanks, David

#6 5 years ago

Hi David
here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2449&picno=55531 I see the pin "GAME OVER" - the Number-Match-Lite reads "300* -> the "Super Straight" has TWO fake digits - minimum points are 100s. Here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2449&picno=16442 above the flipperfingers -> the slingshots -> in Your pin -> do they give "100" points ? Or 1000 ? Or do the< faulty give no points ?

Whenever You just look at or work in a pin: Always unplug the main power-cord - ONLY plug-in when You do testing and therefore need current (Safety Reason). Have fuses at hand - You can have made a short ...
IF (if) the slingshots give 100 points read further -> do what I did on my Shangri La -> the slingshots give ONE point - and these simple standup-switches on the playfield also give ONE point. I looked at a the slingshot -> a switch behind the rubber does close -> electricity flows to the COIL -> angled plunger is moved -> a simple leaf-switch does close. I look at the wires at this switch - one side has "Yellow / bare Wire" - the other side has color-X - and my simple 10 points switches on the playfield have also "Yellow / bare Wire" and color-X. You could try to jumper "color-X on slingshot <-> color-X on Standup-Switch (playfield).
Follow "Yellow / bare Wire" -> somewhere broken-off ? Greetings Rolf

#7 5 years ago

Ok, finally finding my way back to this.

Lights - looks like I have a combination of things to run down here, but the Bonus Lights are working, a few others are not. I can advance the bonus stepper to make each bonus light come on. I was expecting when I turned the game on that all would come on, but only the 70,000 was which confused me. Turns out that's where the stepper was last time the game was played before I started testing. Starting from scratch again to see what "actual" lighting problems I have beyond bad bulbs and my own lack of understanding. More soon I suspect.

100 Pt's - So, it seems as if the Spinner gives 100 Pts (except when lit) and is working. The Rollover Stars give 100 Pts, working. The Slings should give 100 Pts from what I'm told here, NOT WORKING. Those 2 Switches up-top I started this part of the thread with give 100 Pts, NOT WORKING. Trying to work my way back from the Slings and those 2 Switches. Found the 100 Pt Relay in the backbox too. Think I found the Coil (connected to a relay that I can't read the label too yet) under the playfield that may be in-play if I follow your path from above. Thinking it goes from those 2 switches to that Relay and Coil. Gonna poke around there tomorrow.

BTW, to find that relay, I tried the trick somebody talked about elsewhere, turn off the lights and engage a switch to see what is firing. Found it when I closed the star roll-over switch and saw the quick flash in the backbox.

#8 5 years ago

Update, so the slingshot switches you describe Rolf and the 2 Switches up top, both connect to a Coil on the "No. Match Relay" under the playfield. The switches at the relay seem to be adjusted fine, but it doesn't seem to "fire" when the slings or the 2 switches are closed. Even if it did, what is it supposed to do? Now I am confused a little more. Why are they even connected to that relay? Shouldn't they be connected to the 100Pt Relay?

From watching a video on youtube of the game Rolf, you're are correct, both should be scoring points.

I need the schematic to get here now.

#9 5 years ago

Hi David
great - spinner and rollover buttons work, give 100 points. Not so great: the slingshots (nice, they fire) do not give points, not so great: the standup-switches do not work / do not give points.

My opinion: every pin should have schema and manual --- buy when You can buy.
Question: Are the Score-Reels "one points" / "ten points" FAKE - means "minimum points" You can make are "hundred points" ? I ask this because slingshots always give "minimum points" - so "Can we talk about 'slingshots should give 100 points, but they do not give 100 points'" (?)

Questions: Is there (probably behind the cashbox, near the player) a fuseholder - are there paper-tags TELLING Volts and Amperes ? Do You have some spare fuses of these Amperes ? (when working on a pin / testing: We may make a short and the fuse in that circuitry blows - not nice, but fuses are made and used for this.

Safety Reason - Whenever You just look into the pin / work on the pin: UNPLUG the main power chord. ONLY plug-in when You want to do a test and NEED electricity.

Sonic pins are clones of Williams - so lets look at Big Deal: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=245 -> schema-C-1: 10 Amp fuse for 110VAC, E-1: 15 Amp fuse for 24VAC, A-2: two fuses 15 Amp for 6 VAC, E-23: 10 Amp fuse for 24VAC - for the rectifier.
Some pins might have 1 Amp fuse, (5 Amp, 8 Amp) You should (minimum) have spare fuses 10 Amp and 15 Amp.

schema-A/B-21/22 (list of relays) tells us: The coil of the 10 point relay (minimum points) is shown at E-23 -> and at C-23 I read: Two Kicker-Switches -> I know now: In Big Deal only THE Slingshots give 10 points.
Just to the left (area-22) I am informed: The bumpers give 100 points and the "rolling the 10 points Score-Reels 80 -> 90 -> 00 points" do actuate the 100 points relay - and there is a 500 points feature.
To the left (area-20/21/22) I am informed about the 1000 points relay - some target-switches - some simple standup switches (behind a rubber) some more stuff.

You write: Spinner / Rollovers give 100 points - BUT Slingshots do not give points, but standup-switches do not give points -> ALL these things are mounted underneath the playfield -> either the switches are oxidated / mal adjusted / a (connecting) wire has broken-off somewhere (on the underneathside of the playfield). Please look again - if "No Luck": we might use Jumper-Wires to troubleshoot.

You write: There is a connection to "No-Match-Relay". Lets look in schema "Big-Deal" at E-23 -> the "Coil on No-Match-Unit" is actuated by a switch on 100 point relay - so in Big Deal the wiring is different (in Big Deal there is not an No-Match-Relay to actuate the No-Match-Unit - in Big Deal the goodies sit in the Backbox) -> conclusion: a schema "Super Straight" is needed ...

ipdb has a "Sonic" schema: "Faces": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=245 -> schema-E-13 -> Not a relay - just a coil un a unit (a little stepper unit) and the wiring is strange -> conclusion: a schema "Super Straight" is needed ...

Im Your post-1 You write "just got this game this weekend" -> questions: Can the preowner give some information ? did he try to fix ? did he try to fix establishing some jumpering / alter the wiring ?

Want to try "Basic Jumpering" ? ONLY do it when You have spare fuses at hand.
Unplug the main power chord. Look at the working Rollover-Switches -> one lug will have some wire (yellow?) or a bare wire --- the other lug will have "wire-of color-XY". THEN look at the "not working Standup-Switch -> see on one lug the SAME "wire-of color-XY" ? IF (if) "Yes": Establish a jumperwire connecting these lugs (of same color) -> plug-in the main power chord -> test it -> what happens ? Greetings Rolf

#10 5 years ago

Wow Rolf, lots to think about. Let me try and answer.

- There is no "10 Pt." reel, it is fake. So no 10 Pt relay either.

- Slings work, but do not give points, can't jumper from there.

- Stars and Spinner seem to be on a different circuit maybe? They can also score more when hit for Bonus (Stars when lit) and 1,000 (Spinner when lit). So not sure how we would jumper yet?

- Found another standup target up top too that doesn't work, same circuit.

- Have spare fuses, no worries there.

- Previous owners had no idea how to work the pinball machine, was part of the deal when they bought their house, no help there.

So one side of the circuit that is not working goes like this I think, wire color looks White/Green:

No. Match Relay Coil (end) -> Standup <-> Standup <-> Sling <-> Sling <-> Standup (end)

Not sure where this Circuit runs to to get the 100Pts Yet and why it's not working. Is it possible I'm not seeing where this runs up into the backbox to the 100Pt relay (this is where that relay exisits)?

When the game is running, if I engage the No. Match Relay by hand, it doesn't score points, but something else happens, maybe changes bonus or something, need to track this down. The only thing that looks weird is somebody put the game on "free play" somehow on the coin door, wondering if that could be a clue?

SCHEMATICS on the way

Thanks, David

#11 5 years ago

OK, got the schematic and manual. The schematic is enormous, like > 6ft long! Looks like to me the No. Match Relay (M-29-1100) coil is bad. Did a rudimentary ohms test on it and I get nothing, whereas other coils test ok. Seems to be good continuity between the switches on the playfield and the No. Match Relay. The No. Match Relay is supposed to send a pulse to the 100Pt. Relay in the Backbox when engaged, but it doesn't seem to during gameplay. Engaged the relay by hand and sure enough, 100Pt Relay is engaged and scores 100Pts. So both relays seem fine, but the coil on the No. Match Relay is not working to make the relay work.

May not be describing this well, but seems to make sense to me. Let me know if I'm out in left field still, thinking I just need to replace that coil which I think is the same as a Williams coil of the same name from what I have read about these parts?

Thanks, D

1 week later
#12 5 years ago

Things not quite right yet. Just got a M-29-1100 coil for the No. Match Relay from another pinsider here (thanks!) and installed it. This actually fixed the scoring issue with the standup targets and sling shots not scoring 100Pts as this is in the path for that circuit to get to the 100Pt Relay in the head. The problem now though is that this relay is also used for the Advance Bonus where the Bonus and Specials lite up, but move from side-to-side, ie hit something and the inlanes and outlane bonus/specials move to the other side of the playfield. Noticed that when I hit a standup target the lights go off/on and the bonus/specials move if needed (if they are active). Sometimes the lights dim and then brighten again. Then after a couple of times, or sometimes the first time, the 15A fuse blows under the playfield and the lights go out. Previously when the relay was not working, the fuse did go out a couple of times, now it's just easier to make it happen.

Not sure how to track that one down?

I do have the schematic now at least.

#13 5 years ago

Nevermind ..... forgot I had a lamp socket that I found that was broken, it was creating a short. Only costs me some fuses I guess.

Now, just have to figure out why the "1000 When Lit" light at the Spinner and the "Advance Bonus" light just below don't come on.

#14 5 years ago

your gettin there. that coil that was burned, follow the switches that fire it, back, and chk them for burned/pitted contacts, etc. the coil is the result of the fail, the new one will burn too, if you do not find out why. chk the switches on the relays you have mentioned, tighten stacks, clean/adjust, etc... and I be you will work the bugs out.

#15 5 years ago

Well, my main issue is still learning to read the schematics, that is just plan hard for still!

It "looks" like I have run the last things down. Sure something else will come up, but for this moment I think the game is playing well. Fun game too. Thanks to all who helped!!!!

- Lights not working at spinner as mentioned above. Those lights go to the Bonus Unit Stepper under they playfield. Cleaned the contacts on the stepper and what-do-ya-know, lights are working now as they should. Sweet.

- Standups and Slings not scoring 100 Pts. That was the No. Match Relay replacement for both and some switch adjustments specific to the slings.

- Replaced a few sockets too and a few other smaller details.

Hey there! Got a moment?

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