Sonic Cherry Bell Problems

(Topic ID: 209791)

Sonic Cherry Bell Problems


By Ioweone

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by squarebob
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

0Cherry-Bell-ipdb-freshened-up-bl-wh-orpalis-reduced.pdf (PDF preview)
0Cherry-Bell-Work-01 (resized).jpg
aCherry-Bell-Pinside-freshening-up-orpalis.pdf (PDF preview)
aCherry-Bell-Pinside-freshening-up.pdf (PDF preview)
067AA352-860E-41ED-8433-3969582B0916 (resized).jpeg
C923864E-793E-42A1-8C7D-32801B8F863E (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
Cherry Bell Aux Top Eject relay (resized).jpg

#1 6 months ago

I recently purchased 1978 Cherry Bell EM pinball machine. I was able to get it to play, but I'm dealing with three issues, wondering if anyone could provide some assistance. I do have the schematics. I downloaded online, bought a copy that's barely more legible than the online version, and also downloaded the better looking "Faces" schematics. I can also view a Williams schematic that's very similar to Sonic. I'm a novice at pinball repair, and struggle reading these schematics, but with a little help, I know I can get this game 100% I'm good with meter and solder iron

Problem 1: The bonus alley/chute to the right, with the ball kickout, only works when one of the two bonus lights light up (the bottom one). The playfield seems to work perfectly as long as that credit light stay lit. When that light is off, the ball hangs up in the kickout hole, the scoring continues to add until I hit reset, or manually trip the Aux Top Eject relay. Probably easy to figure out, but I've been beating myself over the circuit for so long, I've given up.

Problem 2: I've seen where this problem has occurred on other EM games, but can't remember where I saw the solution posted. When I insert one coin (or trip the coin switch once), with 5 ball setting selected, the first ball goes to player one, second to player two, Third to three, and the fourth and fifth ball to player foour, then game over.

Problem 3: If I ever press the red game credit button on the front, I see a spark on the first gear of the scoring motor, and the 15 amp fuse will usually blow. I took a volt meter to the credit button switch, and got 6v on one side, and 34 v on the other side. In the game's current setting, I do not need to press the button, so someone's going to say, just don't press the button! Yeah, but... I'd like to figure out what's going on here.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!

Paul

#2 6 months ago

First, pick one problem and work with that.

Quoted from Ioweone:

Problem 1: The bonus alley/chute to the right, with the ball kickout, only works when one of the two bonus lights light up (the bottom one). The playfield seems to work perfectly as long as that credit light stay lit. When that light is off, the ball hangs up in the kickout hole, the scoring continues to add until I hit reset, or manually trip the Aux Top Eject relay.

Where is this on the playfield?

Quoted from Ioweone:

Problem 2: I've seen where this problem has occurred on other EM games, but can't remember where I saw the solution posted. When I insert one coin (or trip the coin switch once), with 5 ball setting selected, the first ball goes to player one, second to player two, Third to three, and the fourth and fifth ball to player foour, then game over.

Does the Player unit stepup coil fire twice when this happens?

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from Ioweone:

When that light is off, the ball hangs up in the kickout hole, the scoring continues to add until I hit reset, or manually trip the Aux Top Eject relay.

If tripping the Aux Top Eject relay resolves the problem, here's the circuit for that:

Cherry Bell Aux Top Eject relay (resized).jpg

It could be that the Top Eject relay isn't firing, or that one of the three switches shown isn't closing properly.

/Mark

#4 6 months ago

Problem 1: You'll need to check the switches that control power to the bonus kick out hole. It looks like this kick out hole is called the "Top Eject" hole. A switch on the auxiliary top eject relay sends power to the top eject hole solenoid. If this kick out hole works when bonus is showing, then you would want to look at the bonus unit zero position switch. Make sure the switch is clean and adjusted properly.

Problem 2: This sounds it might be an issue with the coin unit. Manually advance and reset the coin unit to see if it easily clicks into each of the four positions. When you start a game, confirm that the coin unit is in the one player position.

Problem 3: You'll need to look at all the switches and coils in the credit button circuit. Find the credit button switch on the schematic (grid D-3) and check the switches going toward the credit relay. Make sure the switches are clean and adjusted properly. Also, check the condition of the credit relay coil...

#5 6 months ago

I have several reasons to believe bonus unit zero position is the problem. Not sure how to check that particular switch. I did make an adjustment since bonus score always reset to 2000 points. I bent switch to point where I felt was zero. (I know that’s bad . I’ll take a pic of contacts if that will help

image (resized).jpg

#6 6 months ago

Sorry. Here is pic after startup sequence. Ball ready to play

Previous pic was with power off.

image (resized).jpg

#7 6 months ago

Thanks for the above replies. I’m just going to focus on problem 1 for now.

#8 6 months ago

Regarding problem 1, when double bonus relay is activated, all seems fine, when not energized, I have problems every time.

#9 6 months ago

I decided to rework bonus stepper, and found this issue. Ordered new part today.

C923864E-793E-42A1-8C7D-32801B8F863E (resized).jpeg

#10 6 months ago

Inside sleeve somewhat melted

067AA352-860E-41ED-8433-3969582B0916 (resized).jpeg

#11 6 months ago

Definitely looks like it got cooked. Make sure to check any switches that may activate that coil--it may have been locked on because of a stuck or improperly adjusted switch. Good catch!

#12 6 months ago

Will do

#13 6 months ago

Was this on Letgo? I would love to see more pics, if it is (was).

#14 6 months ago

Sorry about the hijack attempt. I had been looking at a Cherry Bell in the Alamance County Letgo and regretted not buying it.

#15 6 months ago

Hi MarkG
the snippet of schematics You show in post-3: Is it from the ipdb-schematics ? Or do You have another schematics ?

Hi Ioweone
You know the ipdb-schematics and You have other schematics - a paper copy You bought and maybe a download-copy "other than ipdb" (?)

To all - have You schematics with "better quality" on "areas not good in ipdb-schematics" ? We then could put together the best areas to make "an full reasonable quality schematics" (?).

I did some (heavy) work in MS-Paint / paint.net - freshening-up / redrawing --- not finished yet. See the first PDF --- on areas I am not sure about "do, did I redraw correct ?": I put some question marks.

Some general words - a PDF usually is less data (MB) then an JPG --- if we use one of the free services on the internet to make an PDF from an JPG: Less MB of data to upload to pinside. And when the quality of an PDF is good - using a free "PDF-(Size)-Reducer": Drastically reducing storage --- see the first PDF is on my computer "650 KB of data" --- and the second PDF (orpalis reduced) is 52 KB data - in a surprising good quality. Greetings Rolf

aCherry-Bell-Pinside-freshening-up.pdf

aCherry-Bell-Pinside-freshening-up-orpalis.pdf

#16 6 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi MarkG
the snippet of schematics You show in post-3: Is it from the ipdb-schematics ? Or do You have another schematics ?

I used the (rough) schematics on ipdb.org. Good work cleaning them up.

/Mark

#17 6 months ago

Awesome. Thanks so much!

#18 5 months ago

Hi Paul
in Your post-1 You wrote "bought me an schematics --- not much better than the ipdb-schematics". In the JPG I show the worst area in the ipdb-schematics. IF (if, if) in Your paper-schematics this area is better: Please use Your mobile phone and take a picture of this area - pictures taken with an mobile-phone-camera probably are JPGs --- and You can upload Your picture. And I then can proceed "redrawing the schematics".

Did You decide to "wait for replacement stuff to come - then proceed in troubleshooting" ? Or what problem do You work-on by now ? Greetings Rolf

0Cherry-Bell-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#19 5 months ago

EDIT: Please read post-20

Hi Paul
where are You at "trouble-shooting" ? I did not get feedback to my post-18 - I finished the "redrawing" --- see in here the PDF - lower left corner - read the text. Here in pinside I show this "reduced in size" version - the "same document" as original-PDF is 3 MB data --- the same as JPG is 5.1 MB data. If You want me to send to You these MB of data: Write me an personal message with an EMail-Address. Greetings Rolf

0Cherry-Bell-ipdb-freshened-up-bl-wh-orpalis-reduced.pdf

#20 5 months ago

Hi Paul
and what do I see ? --- At schematics D-13 I left out the drawing of "Switch on 1-2 Reset-Relay" --- I corrected in my drawings. Greetings Rolf

3 weeks later
#21 5 months ago

Rolf, I picked up my Cherry Bell and downloaded your redone schematic. It is much better than mine. Thanks for all the hard work. I have been trying to get mine running. I traced some wires and can identify some of the "?" you have on the schematic. The "?" at C-2 should read "to@C-8". There you will see the 3-C score motor switch again. The "?" at C-3 to the left of the start button, where the W-GREY wire branches off, it should read "to@D8" which is the credit relay NC switch. The next "?" at D-3 on the vertical wire should read "W-BR". More to come. Now if I could just get the score motor to stop running when I push the credit button, I might be able to get somewhere. The score wheels all zero out and that circuit is OK. The bonus unit goes to 0 position, then to 1 bonus then back to 0 bonus then back to 1, ect. ect. The ball release cycles and the the big 110V bank reset fires. Lots of noise till I put the game over relay into game over position or unplug the score motor.

#22 5 months ago

Hi squarebob
thanks for Your post-21. I would like when You take pictures with the camera of Your mobile phone of "parts in question" - then post the picture(s) --- they can be turned / stretched a bit / a lot --- no problem as I can turn and stretch in paint.net . But I would like to use "original text" instead of typing new text (even as / when the texts are the same). Cameras on mobile phones usually make JPG- or maybe PNG-format --- easy to upload the pictures in pinside ... And then the "improved schematics" I do post in pinside.

I own an Fun Fest that I love --- You own a Fun Fest --- I made two alterations (of course I like them):
AAA - EVERY ball lost gets SINGLE bonus rewarded (Triple bonus on the last ball I do not like)
BBB - I can open the Gate on the bottom-right on EVERY set / stop of "1000 Points lit" --- see in the bottom-left corner of the JPG --- I painted red two 1000-points bulbs and made the "added wiring on the Advance-Unit" --- read here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-fun-fest-modification

It is too late in Switzerland to start "implementing Your information into Cherry Bell schematics" (((and I hope for pictures))) --- its too late to look at the mentioned (post-21) problems - I go to sleep and will do some work by tomorrow. Greetings Rolf

#23 4 months ago

After hours of troubleshooting and almost pulling my hair out, I have got the Cherry Bell about 95%. Lots of cleaning contacts, adjusting switches and just plain determination.

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