(Topic ID: 200502)

Somebody explain Bitcoin to me

By Pinballlew

2 years ago

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    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Since 1968, USD are no longer backed by gold

    minor correction: 1933, not 1968.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    but how do you know where these "mines" reside? I guess that's my initial question. Is there a specific website, how do you know you even have a mine found?

    in simplest terms ... you buy a powerful computer. you download a program which is your miner. this program downloads chunks of data and performs billions of calculations on it, known as "work". as your computer hashes through these billions of calculations, it effectively finds tiny fractions of bitcoin (or monero or etherium or whatever you're mining). most miners operate in a pool, which means they pool their resources together and get paid in proportion to the amount of work they contributed to that pool's bitcoins generated.

    i'm sure pedants will jump in eager to "correct" me by complicating things, but that's the simplest gist of it. if it sounds like the end user is just wasting tons of electricity to do pointless work to generate imaginary money ... you're not entirely wrong. but having said that, i do think cryptocurrency's importance in world markets will only grow in years to come.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheHueManatee:

    Buy tangible assets.
    When the power goes out....you can still hold gold & silver in your hands. It's tangible....bitcoin is not.

    great plan ... so long as the apocalypse strikes in your lifetime. in which case ... congrats?

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    Do not invest in Bitcoin or Ethereum or any of this. Unless you have a passion for it and truly understand the tech. It would be like buying Google and Apple today and expecting significant returns from the breakthru of the past.

    i would definitely agree that one should know as much as possible about a thing before investing in it, and cryptocurrency is certainly fairly complicated and confusing. furthermore, anyone getting into it today has indeed missed their chance for a 10x ROI in a couple years or whatever, but that doesn't mean it can't be a good investment (that's not advice -- i have no idea what the crypto markets are going to do).

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Ridiculous that this even exists. People need to google the whole tulip bulb crash that happened a hole back in Holland.

    everyone knows about that. this isn't an irrational craze for an arbitrary product. it's potentially a revolutionary form of currency that can't be counterfeited or manipulated by banks and governments due to its decentralized nature. that's the intent, at least.

    it's not nonsense -- but the question is still open whether it will be successful.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    It's nonsense. It's not backed by anything of value or a stable government.

    kinda seems like you don't know much about the subject.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    I have multiple degrees in finance and accounting. Worked for years in corporate finance. Passed cpa exam. Still know some friends in the financial industry. But go ahead and show the usual arrogance that you are known for. Waste your time with bitcoin, and when it has all collapsed, I will not even bother with an "I told you so". Just remember this moment.

    no need for insults. it's okay, lack of understanding of cryptocurrency is nothing to be embarrassed about.

    bitcoin is an attempt to improve on traditional fiat currencies by using cryptography to ensure the integrity of transactions. its decentralized nature prevents central banks or governments from being able to arbitrarily print additional units. also, bitcoin's blockchain is a ledger that is shared across multiple networks that is a permanent, accessable record of every transaction a bitcoin has undergone forever. it can't be hacked or stolen because of the distributed nature of its accounting.

    you say that bitcoin is not backed by anything. well, it's backed by decentralized proof of its provenance (blockchain), and the proof of work required to generate it. that puts it two steps ahead of the U.S. dollar. remember that all currency is fundamentally only backed by a society's mass acceptance that it has intrinsic value. you can't eat gold, after all.

    i don't know the future (and i don't have any money in bitcoin) but comparing it to the tulip mania fad is not accurate. there's certainly interesting underlying theories behind it.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Sorry, his comparison is a good one. The dramatic value increase in tulips and bitcoin value is/was driven more by speculation than the actual change in rarity or the demand for the underlying asset.
    Heck, with all the people here complaining about pinball prices and machines as investments, I'm surprised it hasn't been linked to our crazy mania.

    rapid increase in valuation alone is not enough to justify the comparison. demand increased, and prices responded. that's how literally all markets work. some of them are bubbles, some are not.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    The rapid increase in valuation is being driven by speculation, not the for the intrinsic value it has or in actual change in rarity.
    That in and of itself defines it as a bubble (or mania), and is undeniable in this instance.

    it does your argument no good to propose your opinions and then declare them indisputable facts. of course it's deniable that bitcoin is a bubble or some kind of mania. the increased demand is due to increased awareness and liquidity through better online tools. i'm sure there are a number of people looking to get rich as with any market, but a great many advocates or buyers of bitcoin do so because they believe it to be on firmer ideological footing than currencies backed by a Federal Reserve. Do some research instead of committing to your first knee-jerk reaction. There may be more to it than you realize.

    #55 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tomahawkjim:

    The IRS wants theirs. You're definitely subject to taxes when profiting off of bitcoin or other crypto-currencies.

    and that's different from dollars how?

    #89 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    These are the companies that currently accept payment via Bitcoin (as of Oct 13th):

    Why did you fax that to yourself seven times before posting it?

    #106 2 years ago
    Quoted from VacFink:

    Its like the gold coins in John Wick. Its underground currency that bad people use to pay each other for things that are bad. Sure there are some efforts to 'legitimize it' but that's really a path so those same bad people can get it exchanged into common currency on the back and uses those outside investors.
    Outside of the fact that its purely imagined and only has value because other's imagine it has value (a basic tenant of almost any currency)
    My take on it is a supporting it by investing, mining, or accepting it for something, is morally problematic. Sure any currency can be used for those same purposes, but this is designed by and for that sole purpose and so those services can be exchanged in secret and can't be frozen by any government when that same criminal activity is discovered.
    So if you do invest, your doubling down and supporting the worst of the worst IMO. The human traffickers, the industrial side of drug manufacturing and transport, arms dealers, and just about any other kind of vile human activity.

    this is complete nonsense. saying the sole purpose of bitcoin is so "bad people can pay each other for things that are bad" is as stupid as saying pinball's sole purpose is gambling.

    #119 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    So let's say you want to invest in Bitcoin...How do you go about buying and selling? Should you just buy the Bitcoin stocks or purchase the actual Bitcoins? I am not interested in mining for them.

    you can't buy bitcoin stock. (although you could buy AMD/NVIDIA, the companies that make the hardware that mine the coins. those stocks have been killing it)

    you can buy bitcoins themselves on an exchange such as bitfinix. https://www.bitfinex.com/

    as with any investment, it's probably not a good idea to invest any money you can't afford to lose.

    #126 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    I dunno....When I hear talk of the algorithm's are unhackable and bitcoins can't be counterfeited, I tend to roll my eyes. If it's on a computer(s) and contains 1s and 0s, it can and will be hacked at some point. Maybe not in the traditional way of number crunching, but some other creative circumvention. Nothing in the computer world, especially tied to the internet, has proven to be unhackable. Once the value exceeds the expense to hack and it becomes profitable to hack, it will happen. The world governments have spent billions on printing non-counterfeit-able currency. Why? Because each and every measure is eventually counterfeited.

    i suggest you learn about why it is unhackable. it uses a distributed accounting system that requires consensus from 10,000 distinct nodes across the globe. you'd have to orchestrate more than half of those nodes to conspire and cooperate with your attack without anyone noticing in order to be successful. It's not going to happen.

    now of course an individual can always be scammed -- but that's a universal truth that has nothing to do with cryptocurrency.

    #128 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Scenarios like Mt Gox tho can still happen... even without compromising the larger network. That's still an issue ... but one could argue the same risks exist in electronic funds handling at banks. Difference is banks are insured.

    true. but an exchange is not a bank. it's a marketplace. securely storing your currency is what digital wallets are for.

    #134 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    You're making my point....

    actually what's happening here is you're not understanding what i'm saying.

    Quoted from robertmee:

    FYI, according to this article, the magic 51% number, while expensive would return a 200% ROI. Think the Russians can put together that amount of computing horsepower?

    no. nobody can. and even if they could (which they can't) it would be noticed and blocked before it did any damage.

    yes an individual can be hacked. yes a marketplace can be hacked, just like Yahoo or Pizza Hut or Equifax or Xbox or Arbys or any one of the thousands of businesses using U.S. dollars.

    and of course people will never cease getting scammed, regardless of the currency they use. that has nothing to do with bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency.

    but the bitcoin network itself cannot be hacked.

    the encryption protecting digital wallets cannot be hacked.

    (although they can be compromised through social engineering -- but once again, no system, no matter how secure -- and that includes money in a safe in your basement -- is safe if its owner is tricked into giving away the key. that's not hacking.)

    #138 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    You can't be that obtuse. Of course, and all those institutions have been hacked multiple times....difference is, each of those institutions are backed by a fraud department and will reimburse you for losses. Bitcoin gets hacked or even an exchange...see ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

    i can't believe i have to explain this to you a third time. bitcoin cannot be hacked. if you store your digital currency in an encrypted wallet, it is 100% safe unless you personally mess up and give your credentials away.

    an exchange is a store like any other. you don't keep your money in a store.

    Quoted from robertmee:

    Don't know why some of you seem to internalize this debate personally. I choose not to participate in BTC because it's above my risk tolerance. You choose to participate because it is below yours. C'est la vie. But to suggest that it is immune to corruption, thievery, counterfeit, and unrecoverable loss is silly.

    literally nobody claimed bitcoin makes someone immune to corruption or thievery (although it is immune to counterfeiting).

    i'm not taking the debate personally (i mentioned earlier i own zero bitcoins), but i am getting frustrated trying to explain the same concepts over and over.

    #153 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I did, and I don't understand who creates the coins and how they are giving them value.
    It seems like it would be creating a crossword puzzle that people can solve, and when they solve it I give them a code for a fraction to a piece of stock. But I would have to have the stock to give in the first place.

    there are 21 million bitcoins and there will never be any more than that. approximately 16.7 million of those 21 million have been mined already. the remainder are still undiscovered.

    like gold, there is a finite supply. new bitcoins cannot be created without re-writing the bitcoin protocol, which due to its distributed nature, would in effect require a majority consensus of all bitcoin holders, which obviously would never happen, since you'd be asking people to voluntarily devalue their own assets.

    #156 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    So someone made a bunch of puzzles and created a bunch of millions of secrets hidden inside those. What made those pieces of code worth anything?

    it's no more edible than gold or diamonds or dollars.

    #159 2 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I guess I just don't understand how someone goes from making this code and hiding what's basically xbox gold inside of it. THen have that xbox gold all of a sudden have some value to companies?

    yeah i get that. all i can offer is that the only difference between bitcoin and traditional currencies in that regard is the number of people who agree it has value.

    in my opinion, there are two main advantages bitcoin has over, say, the U.S. dollar:
    - actual, enforced scarcity: unlike dollars, no person/government/bank can simply print a bunch of new ones when they want. there are 21 million and that's all there'll ever be.
    - the blockchain: a permanent, unalterable, distributed public ledger of every bitcoin transaction. it's a currency that comes with a practically infallible accounting / trust / clearinghouse / verification system built in. it eliminates the need for trusted third parties, intermediaries, or central authorities to approve transactions.

    #191 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Just because the encryption used is believed to be secure, that does not make it unhackable. Just like this week's disclosure on wpa2... even when the encryption itself was not broken, flaws in the protocol were found. Flaws in bitcoin have been found in the past as well. Flaws in AES, RNGs, etc... all been exposed before.
    We talk about Stength in encryption - not as things as 'unhackable'.

    sure, i understand that. as with physical security, in digital security, the only way to make something 100% secure is to do without it. but we are not talking about bitcoin in a void. we are talking about it in relation to physical currency, and the security risks associated with that.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    But a safe at home holding worthless tokens is still worthless. Impenetrable wallets do not safeguard the currency. Major failures in how the currency is valued or traded would cripple your tokens even if they never left your wallet. Because all value is about a shared expectation- destroy that and value is hurt.

    true. security itself is not enough to guarantee the coin itself will retain value. there are lots of other factors at work and nobody knows the future. my point about the wallets was just to point out that you don't keep all your money at Wal-Mart, you keep it somewhere relatively safe, and you bring it to the store when you're ready to buy something. i was trying to clarify wallets versus exchanges, because people were talking about exchanges getting hacked.

    #197 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Any speculators have an explanation for why Bitcoin is trading on the markets at nearly 10x what it was just a year ago after sitting stagnant for almost 2 years?

    fox news and other mainstream media giving it exposure.

    #227 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Based on Pezpunk and Astropins thinking, I figured maybe I could sell it to them at a markup. All I have to do is market My turd in a way that makes sense to them. Shouldn't be too hard.

    If you're not going to bother understanding the points I'm making please do not attempt to describe them.

    #231 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Oh my goodness. Just for today, try pulling the stick out of your backside, remember what it was like to have a sense of humor, and R-E-L-A-X.

    I doubt you'd think it was funny if someone showed no ability to understand what you were saying to them, and then went around misrepresenting what you said.

    Your participation in this thread is adding zero value to the conversation. Your opinion was registered early on. People responded to it, and you've ignored every response and continued to harp on the same straw man critique repeatedly. It's boring and annoying.

    #241 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    I just opened an account with GDAX with the intentions of buying some Bitcoin.
    Are you telling us (me) that THEY will be the source of the 1099?
    I noticed they needed my Social Security Number and was surprised. I thought one of the main advantages of these crypto-currencies was the ability to stay under the radar and remain anonymous. NO?
    Thanks for any comments.
    Mike in Kentucky

    i think most exchanges that accept US dollars from US citizens are trying to stay on the government's good side. it's not a way to cheat on taxes. at least, not without diving into the seedier side of things.

    #246 2 years ago

    if you'd even bothered to read my posts, you would have seen i mentioned multiple times that i don't even own any bitcoin, and also said multiple times that i don't know if it will be successful or not. i get that you're not capable of understanding the concepts behind cryptocurrency, but statements like "i don't have any money in bitcoin" and " i have no idea what the crypto markets are going to do" should not be above your reading level.

    #247 2 years ago

    also how embarrassing is it for you that you were so upset by someone's posts that for a moment you thought it was a great idea to take a magic marker, write their username on a piece of paper, stick it on a toilet, take a picture, and uploaded it to the internet?

    #298 2 years ago

    Seconded. WindowsXP is not secure.

    #308 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Some don'ts...
    Don't try to buy on Coinbase with a bank account debit card. I did some research, but apparently not enough. It seemed easy enough, the Coinbase app appeared to have a lot of positive reviews. All I wanted to do was throw a small amount out there to play around with and the transaction was denied, flagged and debit card locked. This was just yesterday.

    just tell your bank you're going to be wiring money first. wire transfers are red flags for scams these days, so unusual ones tend to get flagged.

    #311 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    I was more concerned with the security of the exchanges, figured I would choose one of the big names. I was taken by surprise - it never occurred to me that the bank would have issue with it, but now I have read that banks frown upon bitcoin. Whether it be because it the decentralization undermines them, or they want to protect themselves. Anyway, if I try to pursue it in the future I will make sure not to associate it all to my working checking account. That was just careless on my part. This time I just got a little wisecracking from the wife, but could have been a lot worse if my account got screwed.

    well, part of that caution and concern is justified, but there is also the fact that secure digital currencies are a direct threat to banks, so you can expect a little fearmongering on their part. walk into any dealership in America and mention Tesla for a similar effect.

    2 weeks later
    #313 2 years ago

    Crazy volatility the last few days. Right now Bitcoin is about where it was at the start of the thread, but it went way up, went way down, and then recovered a bit.

    I started mining Monero ... i've been into computer hardware and overclocking and system management stuff since the 90s. So it's kind of fun for me purely as a hobby even if i just break even. It's some nice passive income, but to make a truly impressive amount of money, you'd either have to make a huge capital investment up front, have access to a shitload of free equipment, or deploy a botnet. And of course know exactly what you're doing, hardware-wise.

    Monero's been doing very well, though. Up like 50% over the last 25 days. If the value holds (who the hell knows), my break even point on the hardware i bought will be about 3-4 months. It's interesting, if nothing else.

    #319 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    I say post it up... interesting stuff.

    okay, okay.

    I built a mining rig with five Radeon Vega 56's.

    IMG_1827 (resized).JPG

    Excuse the mess. That's not it's final resting place, that's just where i'm putting it together. It's not quite finished, but it does hash perfectly (so far).

    IMG_1828 (resized).JPG

    Here it is going full blast. those red and blue LEDs indicate the level of usage of the GPUs -- they're all pegged at 100% in that image. Hash rate is about 10k/second.

    The rig is pulling a constant 800 watts. That'll add a little over $50 to my electric bill. (9 cents per kwh in my area)

    Each Vega is currently netting me about 1 Monero per month apiece. For now, it looks like i'll break even on the hardware costs in about 3-4 months, but there are several variables. Worst case scenario, I can always sell those cards - they're desirable for gaming. So there's a bit of an escape hatch if things turn sour.

    The rig is pretty loud and hot. I've got the windows open in my office, and even though it's like 40 degrees out, it's at least 70 degrees in here, haha.

    #331 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Hey Pez, I just assumed you were a fellow liberal. I'm kinda surprised you are okay with wasting valuable resources to mine these fake currencies. Are you at least using solar panels to provide all that electricity to your computers?

    well, in my opinion, the currencies aren't fake and the resources aren't wasted -- they are used to build something i believe has genuine value.

    but yeah, in mining circles, i'm a gen-x progressive more or less surrounded by libertarian millennials. ugh, haha.

    #338 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Bitcoin is up but Etherum and Litecoin are on a terror (as is Bitcoin cash).

    Monero (the coin I’ve been mining) ain’t doin too bad.

    #344 2 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Seems silly that "someone" would create Bitcoin and the like without actually gaining any profit from it, no?
    Or maybe they gave themselves a few bitcoins for their trouble?
    I have no idea of how this ponzi scheme operation got off the ground, but if I'm wrong about getting no returns for starting it, let me know. Being wrong just means I've learned something.

    ...? Who claimed the creator didn’t profit?

    #373 2 years ago

    It's interesting to me how many people declare with absolute certainty that Bitcoin is worthless and imaginary and a bubble about to pop, and haughtily threaten that they'll be there to say "i told you so" when it finally does. The thing about that is, the same people have been making that pronouncement ever since bitcoin was worth $1, and $10, and $100, and $1000. It's now closing in on $10,000. Let me be clear -- I am not citing those figures to try to show it will continue to go up. I have no idea what it will do. It could crash tomorrow for all I know. Only one thing's certain - the skeptics have been wrong so far.

    I mean, there is a Bitcoin ATM down the road from me, at a Shell station. If four years ago, any arbitrary Bitcoin skeptic, instead of typing on the internet that they'd be proven right someday, they had invested twenty dollars in Bitcoin instead, then they'd be able to walk up to that ATM today and withdraw ten thousand dollars ($200 two years ago would also be worth about $10,000 today). I mean i'm sure it's nice to have a strong, rational argument, an ironclad philosophy of what factors fundamentally imbue a currency with value, and even in the end be proven right years down the road if bitcoin crashes ... but personally, i'd rather have the ten grand.

    Obviously, nobody should be putting their kids' college funds in bitcoin or whatever, and in my opinion a DIVERSE portfolio is the best defense against unforeseen future events. I'm just pointing out that between a hypothetical "TULIPS!" guy and a hypothetical guy who tossed a $20 bill at bitcoin 4 years ago ... well, who wouldn't rather be the latter?

    #374 2 years ago

    would love to hear which part of that RonaldRayGun disagrees with.

    #377 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Not sure what point you are trying to make. You hype up Bitcoin, then admit it could crash any time, just like the guys you are complaining about.

    I didn't hype up anything. You misunderstood my post. My point was that the skeptics have lost out on a ton of money already, which is a fact. I was talking about the past, not predicting the future. I feel I've been very clear on that.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    What's a hypothetical Tulip guy? The tulip mania isn't hypothetical and the many other examples listed here are real too. Tulips have value today, so there is hope for Bitcoin long term.

    The tulips aren't hypothetical. I was comparing two hypothetical PEOPLE -- a person who years ago decided bitcoin was fundamentally worthless for philosophical reasons, vs someone who invested $20 a couple years ago. Whether or not person one's arguments have merit, the fact remains they could have made a fortune instead.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    If you haven't yet, look up the Greater Fool Theory, it helps explain today's Bitcoin market.

    This is not new information to anyone in this thread.

    #384 2 years ago

    repeatedly saying "i have no idea if it will go up or down" and "i have no bitcoin" is hyping bitcoin?

    #389 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    No, but this is ...

    i'm mining Monero, which is a totally different cryptocurrency not based on the Bitcoin protocol.

    #390 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Yeah, but that's like a Smoker saying "If smoking kills, why am I still alive right now?". The fact the incident hasn't happened yet does not nullify it's probability or impact.
    Bitcoin's value keeps going up because it seems the first rule of bitcoin is... you must hype bitcoin.
    The skeptics still have valid concerns because the value or popularity of bitcoin does not alter the root issues people have with this iteration of the technology. It also doesn't address that nearly all the value is in SPECULATION - without any real backing... which is why people have a hard time believing it will weather any disruptors well.
    Popularity and speculation can boost a value at a point of time - it does not make it more fundamentally sound.

    the point i've been trying to get across is that on one side of the debate you have people insisting their arguments are sound, and on the other side you have people whose investment has increased 10,000-fold. unless the latter are 100% invested and have never taken out a dime, they're the clear winners here even if bitcoin DOES crash. (which is a possibility)

    #401 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    I have been trying since October to open an account on Coinbase and/or GDAX but can't get either of them to accept my driver's license photo.
    I've written on here before about this. But since there has been a flurry of new postings, I thought I would try it again.
    I need some recommendations on what exchange to use other than those two. Some of you have surely bought on a different exchange. I read a lot today about Bitshares.org. I can't find any fee schedules on their site. Can anyone vouch for them?
    One last question. If I successfully buy Bitcoin or Ether from, let's say Bitshares, can I sell them someday using another exchange? Just pull 'em outta my 'wallet' and sell them?
    I'm trying SO hard to get rich and I can't even GIVE my money away!

    i signed up for Kraken, and my experience was similar to yours. getting verified was a complete pain in the ass. in the end, i wound up not even using it for what i planned (depositing cash). You might try finding a bitcoin ATM and depositing cash that way. I'm pretty sure you can deposit straight to coinbase that way.


    #424 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Found this helpful article, the actual mining seems like a complete waste of resources, electricity etc..

    Wrong link?

    #431 2 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    It’s got all the signs of a bubble.
    The funny thing with a bubble .. whatever it is, we’ve seen plenty of them .. is every time, “this will be different!” Lol
    Extreme (and others) .. you had the right idea when you bought years ago at low prices. Stash them away and hope for the price to rise up. But to be buying more at $10,000? Dunno about that. Buy low - sell high is my motto. Whatever the item is, the rule is the same.
    They say there are now 1000 different crypto currencies. That’s food for thought.
    Personally ... if I had bought bitcoin for $10 (whatever it was when you bought it) I would be selling it for $10,800, taking my profit, walking away and never look back. If it rises more ... who cares! Take the risk free profit. Then move on to the next thing.
    “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush ...”. (All these old wisdoms are old wisdoms for a reason..).

    why the all or nothing strategy? why not only cash out half? you're still up like 50,000%, and still maintain a way to earn more.

    #434 2 years ago

    right now approximately 0.1% of my total net worth is in cryptocurrency. i'm not sure i could even call it an investment. i'm going small and staying home.

    #439 2 years ago

    right now everyone who had bought in over the last year and told themselves "ok if it ever hits $10k i'm selling" is doing just that. once the correction levels off, it'll be a good time to buy again -- maybe $8000 or so? just a wild ass guess.

    #446 2 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    If it is a “good” investment, there should be no chance of losing your money. Worse case, you make a little profit or break even.
    Anything else is gambling. You may as well go to the roulette wheel and keep betting on Black. You’ll be right around 40%.

    i think it's possible there are more potential states to an investment than "100% guaranteed" and "40% chance of success"

    #449 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I want to get rich, and quick!
    Is this a good scheme for me to get involved in?

    yes! (2 years ago)

    #463 2 years ago
    Quoted from UltraPeepi:

    There are a few reasons I didn't "invest" in Bitcoin several years ago (2013??).
    First: anyone can run a Bitcoin exchange - do I trust the exchange? A relative lost his Bitcoins because he kept them in an online wallet. How do you know if the server hosting your wallet is hardened like a bank's online security?

    an exchange is not a bank. it's a store. keep your cryptocoin in an offline wallet. bring it to the store when you're ready to buy something.

    Quoted from UltraPeepi:

    Second: Bitcoin is NOT a currency until it becomes accepted as payment for goods - beyond experimental or fringe marketplaces.

    agreed ... but so what? why is it important that it be a widely-used direct currency? (honest question)

    also, there are many legitimate marketplaces that take bitcoin ... but they are definitely outliers for now. i'm just saying it isn't only drugs and illegal goods.)

    Quoted from UltraPeepi:

    Third: limitation on transaction times. From very early on, it was known that transactions would not be instantaneous. Without transaction times in seconds, adoption would be stunted.

    transactions through Fidelity and other brokers can take days to settle, and have much higher transaction fees. plus, as long as the integrity and security of the transaction is assured (by the blockchain public ledger), then the delay isn't that big a deal.

    Quoted from UltraPeepi:

    All that said, I am actually hopeful for a cryptocurrency - but I don't know if Bitcoin is it. If Amazon were to accept Bitcoin, it would be a watershed moment. I can't even fathom the repercussions. BTW, Amazon is the exact type of marketplace that COULD deal with the long transaction times.

    i dunno, i think they are probably waiting for the price to stablize. that's probably more important to them than the potential upside of it continuing to inflate.

    #465 2 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    You guys have to pay capital gains on profits?

    Depends on your definition of “have to”. You’re certainly legally obligated to.

    #469 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Because if its not... it's purely a speculative investment whose only driving force is trading between speculators and without a future for the product, you kill the outlook of future escalation = the bubble pops.

    i agree it's a speculative investment. that's definitely what i'm doing with Monero. But i disagree that the *only* force driving its value is speculation. also, i very much disagree that the product is without a future. i think the next 12 months will see a dramatic increase in the number of marketplaces that accept bitcoin as payment. i could be wrong. we'll see.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    It is when you have no trust behind it. Do you hold all goods until settlement? We know how that stunts consumer transactions (holding till check clears, etc) and would make it virtually useless for real-time exchange of goods. Settlement time isn't a big deal because we are dealing with institutions that have backing.. through insurance, capital reserve requirements, fraud protections, etc.

    the blockchain was specifically designed to obviate the need for precisely those protections that middlemen provide. one of the main points of bitcoin was that it comes with its own built-in middleman protections in the form of a public ledger.

    it reminds me of the early days of the internet, when people would wring their hands about how anonymous everyone was and how scary that concept was -- when in reality, the opposite was true. it's actually harder to be anonymous on the internet than it is in real life. same is true of bitcoin. if you want to launder money or do something shady, use cash. Bitcoin is neither anonymous nor untraceable, and people will begin to realize that eventually.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    A currency that isn't stable... is risk for a business.

    i literally just said that is probably the reason Amazon hasn't decided to accept bitcoin yet. i don't hope it goes up. i hope (and believe) it will find a stable spot so that businesses and consumers can actually use it as a currency with confidence. who wants to buy a pizza with an amount that might be worth $500 a week from now? at this point, stability would be better for bitcoin's existence as a currency than continued escalation would be.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    I don't trust the trading indexes or exchanges at all... the conflict of interest and lack of oversight is pure combustibles waiting to go up...

    i agree -- it's a very risky market and nobody should be investing money they can't afford to lose. it's brand new and there's effectively zero oversight, other than the protections built into the coins and protocols themselves, and basic corporate equivalent of survival instinct.

    #471 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Can we please call it a mania now?

    nah. there's more to a bubble than a thing rising in value.

    #477 2 years ago

    John McAfee is a looney toon, and has been for years.

    #490 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Sounds like the IRS is coming for the Bitcoin tax cheats.
    So much for an anonymous currency, when you have to send in scans of your photo ID and a recent utility bill.
    Will the Real Bitcoin please stand up?

    bitcoin was never intended to be anonymous.

    #514 2 years ago

    ugh all anyone uses the stock market for is illegal purchases and speculation.

    #543 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    So how "easy" is it to cash out of an initial investment in the market if say you bought Bitcoin at the $5k mark and it's $11.7k right now? What's the process? How many days does it take to see USD in your bank account & who pays that out?

    there is a bitcoin ATM a few minutes away from me at a Shell station. I could walk up to it right now and withdraw (or deposit) up to $9,999 USD per day. It's a pretty easy process. i've used it to deposit money to an exchange, where I bought a small amount of Monero.

    Quoted from acebathound:

    It's the exchanges, where people keep their wallets, the time in-between transactions that the virtual currency is being shifted around that become areas to attack. The idea you can lose ALL OF IT if the hardware wallet you have goes bad, or you lose a private key.. that's insane I think. Seems like you have to move quick to get any substantial amount of Bitcoin sitting in-limbo anywhere (ie. online wallets at exchanges) OFFLINE.. and I highly doubt if you can associate a bank account with an exchange that's where you want your USD to remain, so you'll need multiple bank accounts to initiate transfers through to secure things more.

    It's a pain right now, but keep in mind the tech is in its infancy. It's really not super complicated once you get yourself set up. For me, depositing money at an ATM to an exchange turned out to be very easy. I then bought some Monero at the exchange, and sent it to my wallet. Done. I can reverse the process in a matter of minutes any time I want.

    Note that nobody should be keeping the bulk of their money in an exchange. Exchanges are a marketplace.

    Second -- yes, storage technology is a weak link in the chain currently. Hard drives are not a reliable long term store of data, and therefore they are not a reliable long term store of the keys to your wallet. It will be interesting seeing what (additional) tech solutions pop up to address that need.

    #575 2 years ago

    NiceHash appears to have been hacked. They were by far the most user-friendly mining software out there. Apparently about $64 million in bitcoin that they were holding in pending payouts or NiceHash proprietary wallets were all transferred to a single account of unknown provenance.

    I kinda liked NiceHash -- it is (was) a somewhat different approach ... when running NiceHash, instead of mining coin for yourself directly, what it did was run a benchmark on your computer to determine the most profitable algorithm (be it XMR, Etherium, whatever), and then run that algorithm on behalf of someone else. A third party receives the Etherium or XMR or whatever that you are mining, and NiceHash pays you in Bitcoin for letting them use your cycles. NiceHash was basically a middleman between people who would buy contracts of processing power from them, and people who would install their software and get paid in Bitcoin to run it.

    It was great for people who wanted to mine, but wanted to end up with Bitcoin instead of whatever random coin their hardware was actually best at mining.

    And now it appears they have had a catastrophic security breach.

    Once again .. any NiceHash users who made a practice of keeping their bitcoin in their own offline wallet should be ok. What was lost was only what was in NiceHash's possession.

    #590 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Bitcoin’s insane energy consumption, explained
    According to one widely cited website that tracks the subject, the Bitcoin network is consuming power at an annual rate of 32TWh—about as much as Denmark. By the site's calculations, each Bitcoin transaction consumes 250kWh, enough to power homes for nine days.

    i take issue with the methodology there and i think it's hugely misleading. the energy consumption is huge, but it's devoted to mining coins, which will soon be a moot point (by 2020 there won't be any bitcoins left to mine). However, they are expressing power usage as a function of transaction volume -- dividing the energy used mining by the number of transactions, which is a false correlation. i mean, it's valid in that yes, bitcoin is using that much energy, and yes maintaining the blockchain is PART of that, but it falsely implies that all this energy usage is necessary just to perform transactions and maintain the blockchain. But the vast majority of that energy is being consumed mining, not calculating transactions (and yes i understand that miners are the ones calculating transactions).

    i'm having trouble finding data on how much energy it will consume to maintain the blockchain (i.e. perform transactions) once all the coins are mined. it seems to me it will be a tiny fraction of the current amount devoted to mining.

    #592 2 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    i take issue with the methodology there and i think it's hugely misleading. the energy consumption is huge, but it's devoted to mining coins, which will soon be a moot point (by 2020 there won't be any bitcoins left to mine). However, they are expressing power usage as a function of transaction volume -- dividing the energy used mining by the number of transactions, which is a false correlation. i mean, it's valid in that yes, bitcoin is using that much energy, and yes maintaining the blockchain is PART of that, but it falsely implies that all this energy usage is necessary just to perform transactions and maintain the blockchain. But the vast majority of that energy is being consumed mining, not calculating transactions (and yes i understand that miners are the ones calculating transactions).
    i'm having trouble finding data on how much energy it will consume to maintain the blockchain (i.e. perform transactions) once all the coins are mined. it seems to me it will be a tiny fraction of the current amount devoted to mining.

    here's an article that kind of explains what i'm getting at. it points out that you COULD run bitcoin's transaction network on a dozen old PCs, and get bitcoin to a point where it consumed less energy per transaction than a Visa card. it's the mining that's consuming all the energy, not the transactions themselves (although the miners are also calculating the transactions).


    #605 2 years ago

    the NiceHash hack has resulted in a hundred thousand noobs who can barely install a video card driver suddenly jumping into Monero pools, drastically raising the difficulty of the coin i've been happily mining for the last month!

    #614 2 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Hmmm... mining, none of the risk, all reward. Sorry bro, but your post regarding mining has actually inspired me to do the same...

    meh, if i'd spent that money on XMR instead of XMR mining hardware, i'd be up 300% instead of still waiting to break even. i mean i WILL break even and then profit, since i'm accumulating coins steadily, but it takes time.

    utlimately, compared to simply buying coins, i think there is less risk involved with mining, but it also takes a lot longer to pay off, and there is less upside.

    #628 2 years ago
    Quoted from S37VEN:

    From what I've read the last BTC will be mined in 2140. 2020 is the next halving. Though mining will get exponentially more difficult there will be new technology added to BTC to enhance efficiency, such as the lightning protocol beta tested yesterday.
    Though I do think that power consumption is an issue, I think the creative minds at work will continue to improve the blockchain and find efficient solutions to improve mining profitability.
    With all these articles coming out about mining consumption, I would like to see comparisons made for the total global energy drain for classes of consumer electronics, such as refrigerators, TVs, etc. My guess is that those statistics would help provide some much needed context here.

    yep, i misread that.

    #666 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    Do't wanna be a party pooper, or a Don Quichot fighting against windmills and i don't have a masters in economics.
    But i just want to say, we had a thing here with tullip bulbs in our past.......
    When the bubble of greed bursts you could be down a lot.
    Only play with what you can mis

    Oh good another tulips post. Thanks for the original insight!

    #676 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    The idiot part i don't disagree on mister know it all.
    For the assume part, it makes an ASS out of U and ME!
    Yes a long time ago my family actualy made a lot of money with tullips (and lost a lot ), but that's not the point.
    It was just a easy to understand warning for all not so highly gifted like you, that it can be a deep pit and a los of money when the hype fades.
    But not to derail your economics topic on a pinball forum any further i will leave you to it teacher smartypants.

    dude you are like the 10th person to show up in this thread and shout "TULIPS!" without reading it. it's annoying after a while.

    #686 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    so 10 people share this opinion about the bitcoin situation an possible outcome , witch is not your opinion.... so it's annoying?????

    it's not that it differs from my own opinion. it's that it is the number one knee jerk reaction that every single person who doesn't know what they're talking about tends to bring up. they pop in here without reading the thread and shout "TULIPS" as if it's some brilliant inside information, instead of the most superficial and obvious thing a person could possibly post.

    #694 2 years ago
    Quoted from jorro:

    I'ts a well known metafor in life as in economics.
    One that everyone understands. yes even me!
    I'ts an opinion and just like @55holes everybody's got one.
    I understand that some people don't like this metafor or this opinion....but then just egnore it and read on, or go to an economics forum. Or start your' own forum no members no tulips!
    in the meantime : cnn money
    Its just a opinion a name and warning in 1

    it's not about your opinion. it's about not reading the thread, and busting in with the most superficial and uninformed possible take that has already been posted a dozen times.

    #718 2 years ago

    because i simply can't leave a good thing well enough alone: out of boredom, over the last few days i've switched my mining rig over to mining Electroneum and then Karbowanec instead of Monero. The returns seem a little bit higher, but it's a lot more hassle, because i'm basically dumping the coins as fast as i mine them because i don't have the same faith in them that i have in Monero (which i just hold).

    #726 2 years ago

    Just be careful, folks. Don’t goof around with money you can’t afford to lose.

    #764 2 years ago
    Quoted from bkbirge:

    The "less room to run" point of view has been voiced by many since btc was $1 and at every point along the way. Sure that will be the correct view at some point, but is it now?

    it's going to be really annoying when bitcoin goes from $17000 to like $8000 or something, and some guy who's been shouting "SCAM" since it was $10 starts going "I TOLD YOU SO" even though the truth is he'd be a millionaire if he'd invested in it when he first started calling it a scam. i mean ... if you call something a scam and it increases in value 1000-fold and then loses half its value .. you were still wrong by a factor of 500.

    #765 2 years ago

    and just to follow up on that thought ... if you DO know the market is about to crash, then i have to assume you bought in some time ago, in order to sell just prior to the crash and reap an incredible windfall from your foreknowledge.

    #768 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    SCAM doesn't mean worthless - it means misrepresented.
    If you paid for your telsa and they delivered a chevy volt... you wouldn't argue "You still got 1/3 of what you were sold".
    Its real easy to avoid being called out in an investment when you say "theres no telling how high it will go!" - because you've made no real commitment. That's just avoiding commitment, not being right because you timed it properly.
    When people preach about "currency of the future" and why you should buy now.. that's gonna be scam territory.
    If you preach "timing market pricing to make a profit" and you don't really give a shit about what bitcoin is... you're just an honest flipper, not scam-y.
    The problem is, people who really are just flippers... but then use the scam-y points to try to justify their position as not just flipping for profit... or as reasoning to recruit others.

    Agreed, it's irresponsible to go around aggressively shilling for it, or trying to convince people to put money into it. I don't think i'm guilty of that. But it's hard not to defend it a little if i'm in a group and someone says "oh my god, bitcoin, what a scam, who are these idiots? Don't they know they're going to lose EVERYTHING! I'll be there laughing in their face" and so on.

    I haven't recruited anyone. A lot of my friends have asked me about it over the last month, and unless they are just looking to augment their existing portfolio or already own hardware capable of mining, i've advised against it. You and i have a mutual friend who i suggested the latter to, since he already owned a high-end video card (actually, i suggested he try out NiceHash on his existing gaming PC -- lol. glad he never followed through!). Last week, he told me he's now thinking about building a dedicated mining rig, and if he does decide to do it, i told him i'd help him pick out parts and configure it, since i've been down that road already. I'm not trying to run a ponzi scheme -- i think offering help in an area i know about is just being a friend. I kinda doubt he'll do it, anyway.

    #770 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Agreed. Has anyone in this thread done that?

    i have a bit. i do believe blockchain-based digital currency has an amazing future for transactions. there are tons of advantages.

    #775 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Block chain technology has many advantages where you need to share security with other parties or track transaction histories. But I haven’t seen any advantages as a currency or method of payment for regular transactions.
    What is in this ton of advantages that is not already available widely and inexpensively?

    I’d respond, but I don’t wanna be a scammy shill.

    1 week later
    #819 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Roger Ver on the other hand is a total pump & dump douchebag and should be looked at by authorities very very closely.

    ....what authorities?

    #831 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    Since I've been having so much trouble trying to set up with Coinbase and GDAX, I have been looking into Pantera. https://www.panteracapital.com/
    They handle nothing but crypto currency and blockchain accounts. Their Bitcoin 'management' fees are extremely reasonable. It appears they invest your money by timing the market for the best buy time. Understanding it all is rather murky because I don't know if this fund is strictly Bitcoin or it includes various other 'coins'.
    Just wondering if any of you have bought into their funds. Lowest entry point is $50,000. I'm really leaning toward this because they are a fund management company and guarantee the security of the crypto you buy. All comments appreciated.
    Mike in Kentucky

    I’m not one to tell others what to do with their money and as I’ve said a dozen times on this thread I have no idea what the market will do, but personally I wouldn’t put $50k in this way at this point. Not that im some kind of expert.

    #835 2 years ago

    i sold 80% of my monero and bitcoin yesterday. for once (and chalk it up to luck! i do not know the future!) i timed the market right.

    i'm still mining, but right now i'm just converting anything i mine directly to dollars instead of holding it.

    one of the benefits of mining is when coins go down in value, it reduces your profits, sure, but you don't LOSE money.

    #841 2 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    Dirty Money -> Bitcoin -> Clean Money. Any questions??? (David S. Pumpkin's voice)

    if you think bitcoin is anonymous, you probably think the internet is anonymous. in other words, you are in for a rude awakening.

    if you want anonymity, use cash.

    #850 2 years ago

    When the price plummets like this, the amount mined per hour goes up. It's a little like buying the dip without doing anything.

    Granted it's small potatoes compared to actual investing, since mining is a constant trickle instead of a targeted injection.

    #853 2 years ago

    for $127 million it's worth the one-in-a-million shot of looking.

    #857 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    "Ledger X Trader Pays $1M to Peg a Bitcoin-Based Futures Contract at $50,000 for December 2018"
    "According to Ledger X, the long-term trade was the “first of its kind” held on the exchange for a sum that large. The Wall Street Journal details the trader had to put up $1 million USD to purchase the long bet, and if the price of bitcoin is below the $50K on that specified date, the investor will lose that money."
    Now that's gambling! Gotta love it.

    people do the same shit on the stock market. are people really under the impression speculation and gambling don't take place all over wall street?

    #858 2 years ago

    looks like bitcoin is stabilizing / recovering. it needed a dip. anyone who bought in more than a few days ago is still way up i think.

    #862 2 years ago

    ugh trend analysis is 1000% bullshit. drawing lines and assigning fancy names to dips and peaks is no more predictive than reading tea leaves. pseudo-scientific pseudo-logic.

    #877 2 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    I'm just bored and this is somewhat interesting. If my bank is robbed, my money is insured by the FDIC, although admittedly losing value slowly decade by decade. If your bitcoin exchange is robbed, yer f'd, not to mention the crazy price fluctuations.


    "All digital currency that Coinbase holds online is fully insured. This means that if Coinbase were to suffer a breach of its online storage, the insurance policy would pay out to cover any customer funds lost as a result."

    "If you are a United States resident, your Coinbase USD Wallet is covered by FDIC insurance, up to a maximum of $250,000."


    #886 2 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    There is a big diff between a USD wallet and a bitcoin wallet. Seems a very popular topic lately. Good luck!

    read the paragraph again. *all* the coinbase wallets are insured. the USD wallets are FDIC insured.

    #936 2 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Except.. not to say this happens to a lot of people, but the thought of these rigs running 24/7.. and while you sleep, with the possibility a gpu or power supply catches fire is kind of unsettling. Google "gpu mining fire" and there's quite a few incidents..both in large mining operations and at-home setups.
    Here's one..
    I'm just interested in learning about it all. Not something I'd feel comfortable running without a few smoke alarms in the room -- and yeesh.. leaving the house with it all running. Not for me

    meh. don't run your power supplies at 110% and you're fine. it's consumer-grade gamer hardware with a half dozen thermal sensors per component. the PSU, motherboard, processor, and GPUs all shut down if they detect a short or excessive heat. keep everything within spec and there's practically no danger. my rig has two power supplies running at about 65% capacity each. i keep the video card GPUs at 45 degrees celsius, which is extremely cool (about 85 degrees celsius is the manufacturer-recommended max temp).

    my setup's making about $65 a day at the moment (8x Vega 56, 2x Radeon 390) not gonna make me rich, but i'm happy for the extra income.

    #940 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Does that factor in the cost of electricity, including the extra cooling in the summer that your room will need and the upfront capital to purchase the mining equipment? I'm just curious if $65 is the gross or net profit from your mining enterprise. If you're still paying for the capital expenditure, at what point in time is the equipment paid off?

    yeah that $65 is not counting electricity. so roughly $1900 or so per month gross, but it's highly variable. i'll probably come in a little below that this month, and over time i expect revenue to decrease as mining difficulty rises.

    i undervolt the cards -- at stock voltages, they would use a lot more power. all told, i'm under 2000 watts for everything mining-related (i'm using kill-a-watt meters to measure). at 9 cents per kwh, it works out to costing me roughly $120 per month in electricity.

    because of fluctuations in price and difficulty that happened to work out in my favor, the rig actually paid for itself in a little over a month. so at this point it's pure profit. and then when i do decide to pack it in (probably in the spring, but who knows), i can sell the video cards -- right now used Vega cards are going for $600+ apiece on ebay (that probably wont last, but they'll still be worth something in a few months). i will keep everything else (the frame, motherboard, processor, hard drive, fans, PSUs), and then maybe in the fall invest in another batch of the latest video card hardware, and plug them into the same rig ... depending on where the market is and so on.

    Quoted from robertmee:

    Also, is it worth it to incorporate your mining enterprise as a business and depreciate all that equipment? You could then also deduct the electricity costs.

    yeah good question, i am honestly not sure.

    Quoted from acebathound:

    I'd like to see the breakdown on the crypto you're mining for $65/day. I tried plugging in numbers for hash rates, wattage ratings of cards & assumed $0.13 kWh electricity costs. Looked like about 380 MH/s hash rate total. 1500 watt total power?
    Bitcoin you'd lose -$4.68/day or -$140.38 in a month
    Eth $4.23 profit per day or $871.39 per month
    Obviously something is up with that calculator if it's only saying with ETH you'd make $4.23/day and you're seeing $65/day mining something. Need a break-down of what you're mining and how you're seeing $65/day in your current setup
    The mining end of things seems volatile as well.. difficulty of mining increases over time and you're having to cycle cards months later to "keep up" with newer cards or see the hash rate suffer.

    90% of the time i'm simply mining Monero. my cryptonite hashrate is about 18khs (those Vegas are beasts). In the last week, the profitability of Monero has dropped, though, so right now i'm mining through NiceHash, which mines a variety of things but is paying me $65/day in bitcoin. (i hand-tune their built-in miners a bit to squeeze some extra juice out of them). that income more or less matches up with what i was making from Monero prior to this week.

    #954 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Is there really a market for used GPUs that have been put through the ringer as overclocked miners?

    Sure. Search eBay for Vega 56.

    Quoted from guyincognito:

    Are people back to using Nicehash after they lost 60 million in BTC earlier this month?!

    Not my job to punish them for getting hacked. They’re paying top dollar to get miners back so I’ll ride that generosity.

    #965 2 years ago
    Quoted from TRAMD:

    That might be impressive on other forums but the level of intelligence and wealth is higher here than your average forum. That was the point of my "signature". There are many people on Pinside who are smarter and/or richer than you and me. There are also a lot of smart, rich people that have made terrible investments.

    i don't think bragging about wealth is an effective move anywhere. i grant you Pinside is richer than your average forum, but i disagree that it's necessarily more intelligent. there is not as strong a correlation between wealth and intelligence as rich people tend to think there is. some of the smartest people i know are actually pretty poor (and i know a lot of very wealthy people).

    Quoted from roffels:

    I consider it unethical to support cryptocurrency mining as it is, it has little to do with risk. A lot of electricity/resources are used for something of no intrinsic value. I'd feel a little differently about it if the calculations were tied to disease research or something. Maybe an alt coin is doing that?

    "intrinsic value" is a loaded term. a dollar has no intrinsic value, either. do you avoid consuming electricity to make dollars?

    and the truth that most people don't want to admit is neither does gold. gold's use in industrial applications is completely trivial relative to its market value. and you know what? a long history of being used as a store of wealth does not constitute "intrinsic value" either. that's just tradition. furthermore,"intrinsic value" is a completely useless term, wielded solely to hypocritically bolster older currencies against newer ones. it's also useless in practical terms: if the world ever reaches a cataclysmic point where financial system collapsed and the only currencies worth anything were those with "intrinsic value", then three quarters of us would likely be dead already from the nuclear holocaust anyway. i want to make it clear that my investment portfolio is utterly unconcerned with planning for that eventuality. similarly, my portfolio strategy is not based around the possibility of alien invasion, zombie apocalypse, or the sun spontaneously exploding, either. my future financial plans are for the world i'm actually likely to be living in.

    gold is backed by nothing more than tradition. dollars are backed by the institution of the U.S. Government. Bitcoin is backed by the blockchain and its distributed public ledger. ultimately, though, all three only hold value as a result of abstract human concepts, and the truth is that worldwide momentum is, in practical terms, far more important to their value than any other factor.

    Quoted from ronaldvg:

    Wanted to give my opinion on this thread as I read it fully. My problem with all these kind of threads is that we hear mostly about the succes stories. Some will point out they lost at some point, but mostly it is bragging how well they are doing and thatyou are stupid or at the least unedjucated if you do not also take the risk.

    this is wrong. there's no self-selection at work in this particular case, only because bitcoin has risen over 1,000% in the last year. just about anyone who has taken part is a wild success story right now. it's almost impossible, over the last few years, to have not made a huge profit margin on whatever you've put in. of course, past performance is not indicator of the future! i'm NOT saying it is impossible to lose money or that it will go up forever! and i want to re-iterate (for the hundredth time on this thread) that it's a high-risk investment that could go down at any time and in my opinion shouldn't make up a large percentage of anyone's investments. but the point is, there are probably very few people here sheepishly holding their tongues because they've lost money on bitcoin - if you've been in at all over the last few years, you're almost automatically up by a ton. (well, unless you lost the keys to your wallet or were the victim of theft or something).

    edit: actually it has been down from its all-time high over the last couple weeks, but over the last year, it is still up over 1,000%.

    Quoted from ronaldvg:

    My problem with that is that the less disposible income you have, the more you have to gain by entering in such a venture. BUT the more you also have to lose !!! If you have enough money to not have to worry about losing 100000 then you will not get into problems but I have seen more than one guy getting caught up in the hype and lose too much, one almost went mental and another is not with us anymore because of the loss he took.
    Everybody can warn a thousand times to be sensible about this and not use money you cannot afford to lose, but it does not work like that. It is just as dangerous as a gambling addiction. Once you won, you want to keep on winning at all cost. If you are succeptible to getting addicted quickly, threads like these could be litterally lethal. I am lucky to not want to gamble ever (went to Vegas three times now, gambled 1 dollar every time ) but the prospect of easy money is can be VERY attractive, mostly for the people that cannot afford to lose.
    Just my two cents.

    dude anyone with the qualities you are describing is destined for ruin no matter what. yes, people with uncontrollable gambling addictions should not gamble. point taken i guess? most people aren't gambling addicts, though.

    i hope you have the exact same level of absurd vitriol and fatalism for mutual funds and the stock market, because they are pretty much the same thing. retirement funds are all evil, deadly, suicide-inducing gambling addictions if you're addicted to putting all your money into high-risk ventures. yes, ANY market can go up and down. that's what makes them investments. there are plenty of high-risk mutual funds, hedge funds, and stocks available to anyone with a 401k.

    the advice i've always received from financial experts is that a healthy portfolio contains a variety of safe and risky investments. if your friends lost their asses by betting the farm on all risky stuff, i'm sorry, but they're stupid. my mining represents less than one tenth of one percent of my total net worth. Do not blame me (or bitcoin) for dipshits being irresponsible with their money. I've been both preaching and practicing pretty responsibly, i think.

    hopeless gambling addicts are not my responsibility, and are kind of irrelevant to this discussion.

    investing in cryptocurrency is on the extreme risk / extreme reward end of the investment spectrum. nobody should be basing their future financial security on it. for me, mining coins has been a fun and extremely profitable endeavor. i'm happy to chat about it or share what i've learned. but if someone else ignores my advice and ends up broke ... i am not going to blame myself.

    #968 2 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    A lot less energy is used to print a USD. Yes, I do believe in having a smaller carbon footprint. I got rid of my car, gave up eating meat, my power bill is $20-$50 a month.

    awesome. sincerely admire that.

    #970 2 years ago
    Quoted from ronaldvg:

    pezpunk : The guy that almost went mental did not even lose that much. He was not in financial trouble but he found out right then and there that his mind was rigged in a way that he found himself a loser after doing bad in exchange transactions. It affected all other parts of his life also. All is well now, but he did not know that before and so it can happen to anyone.

    this seems like a pretty significant mental problem. i don't really think it has anything to do with cryptocurrency. how does that dude deal with buying a car, or god help him, a new computer, and then seeing the next big thing come out for a lower price the following week?

    #974 2 years ago
    Quoted from extraballingtmc:

    Soooo how about that ripple? Can we hurry up and add it to Coinbase already?

    and cryptopia plz thx.

    #975 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    It may not be that valuable to you personally but it has value value in industry, medical, jewelry, art, and other uses.
    I think it qualifies.

    jewelry and art have zero "intrinsic value". industrial and medical uses do not come close to remotely justifying its market value. the point is the term "intrinsic value" is pointless, has no practical application, and merely serves as a fallback argument that doesn't actually mean anything.

    you can't eat gold.

    #977 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    I’m not arguing the market price = intrinsic value.
    Have you ever been to India or the Middle East? People there love gold and they buy lots of jewelry and art to acquire it. You couldn’t own gold in India except for jewelry at one time so the industry is huge.

    Your definition of intrinsic value is nonsense. It has intrinsic value because people desire it? Wtf?

    #980 2 years ago
    Quoted from wcbrandes:

    I have a feeling most everyone involved in crypto currencies don't believe in intrinsic values of Noble metals or anything else for that matter except maybe food, again a reference to all those that believe the world is going to be a waste land soon. Wealth may not have a correlation to intelligence because inheritance usually is a birth right intelligence isn't , however there certainly is a correlation between income and intelligence so maybe that's a better way to word it. I will not pull out my dick here but it really bothers me seeing people talk out of their ass that have no clue what Noble metals do in this world today. Rare earth basically runs all your precious "mining equipment" to get your crypto "currencies" and I wont even go into the long lists of the uniqueness of each Noble metal and what it does in industry today. Like saying lumber has no intrinsic value because you can't eat it or we can grow it again...all true however you have to get to lumber in the first place and it certainly does many things for us in today's economy.

    i think you're conflating commodities with the "intrinsic value" argument. gold, for example, has very little use as an industrial commodity. if its value were based solely on that, it'd be cheaper than copper.

    Quoted from wcbrandes:

    I have nothing to say about crypto currencies except its an investment that no one can say for certain will keep going up forever (that's a joke) or when it will come back down.

    100% agreed there. i think i've been saying that the whole time.

    #1009 2 years ago
    Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

    So thanks to pinside and this thread, I have decided to mortgage my house for $300k and buy 20 bitcoins with a plan to sell each one at every $50k uptick towards $1 milly

    Way to prove you didn’t read the thread.

    #1010 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I just sent a bunch of monero to an exchange last night and it's still not in my wallet, and the exchange is giving 502 errors. So that's hundreds of dollars out floating in the ether I can't just retrieve.
    The whole crypto environment is still the wild west for the most part, very sketch.

    502? Must be Kraken. :p

    I’ve sent funds to Kraken and had them get there no problem within an hour or two. Make sure your local wallet is fully synced after making the transaction request (if you sent it from a wallet). (Also there should have been a transaction ID)

    #1019 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Right on the level bitcoin ought to be! Haha.......

    this kind of post contributes nothing to the thread and just makes it sound like you're jealous of people here who have made a lot of money on something you don't understand.

    #1020 2 years ago

    oh by the way, my BitPay Visa card came in the mail yesterday! works like a charm. Loaded it up with about $3500 worth of the coin i've mined. bought groceries and a steak dinner, courtesy of my mining rig.

    #1024 2 years ago
    Quoted from Hoopjohn:

    Google "Dutch tulip1636 1637". It should tell you all you need to know about bitcoin. Its simple. You can become rich beyond your imagination. You can lose everything. Its called gambling. Ultra high risk gambling.

    read the thread next time. every page, some random shmoe that knows nothing about bitcoin pops in and mentions tulips.

    #1035 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I fully understand it

    really. then explain the blockchain, or what mining is, or how a wallet works, or literally any aspect of cryptocurrency that proves you know more about it than the ability to shout "TULIPS!" at something you don't understand.

    #1049 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Do you always have to be so rude and condescending to everyone who disagrees with you? Why the moderators have not ejected you from this thread is beyond me.

    i'm not rude to everyone who disagrees with me. i'm rude to people who pop in without reading the thread, and triumphantly post wildly redundant opinions as revelatory new information.

    the only time i was rude to you was when you first showed up and were like "HEY GUYS HAVE YOU HEARD OF TULIPS??"

    in response to my rudeness, you bizarrely wrote my username on a piece of paper, stuck it on a toilet, took a picture, and posted it to Pinside. so don't try to act like miss manners over there.

    #1052 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    I'll admit that photo was childish on my part. I was trying to convey a point. But I was the first to bring up the tulip comparison in this thread, so it's not like I was being redundant. I did not personally attack you, but as I recall you basically called me a simpleton who could not possibly understand how cryptocurrency works.

    i didn't say you or anyone else was incapable of understanding how it works. ignorance is a lack of knowledge, not an inability to acquire knowledge. i hope that distinction helps. i think most people who've read this thread have learned a lot from it.

    but when someone couples ignorance of a subject with the arrogance to step into an ongoing discussion without reading it and act like they're settling the matter, yeah, sorry, they don't get the kid gloves. (i hope it's clear i'm not talking about you here)

    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Maybe it is a (what I suspect) inferiority complex that drives your responses to anyone that might not agree with you, but how about trying to tone down the douchebaggery just a little. A New Years resolution, if you will.

    while i appreciate the free psychological exam, i'm pretty content with myself as-is. if i could return the favor - telling other people what their new years resolutions should be might not be the altruistic olive branch you think it is.

    #1054 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    I don't have the time to look through all your posts, but I was able to pull this one up pretty quickly. Maybe someone with more free time can make a montage.

    yeah okay, and that came immediately after you posted your toilet pic. you really want people to click on that post and revisit that exchange? i don't think putting me on trial here is contributing to the discussion. please send any further comments about my personality to my PM box.

    #1066 2 years ago

    Monero is how I’ve made 90% of my mining income. It was $80 when I started and $450 when I cashed out what I’d been mining.

    Still mining, but I’m generally loading it all onto my bitpay Visa card as I go. (Well, as soon as the balance gets large enough to justify the transaction fees, so about once a week.)

    #1069 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Why not keep it or convert to BTC or something? I was wondering why the change.

    i'm trying not to get sucked into the alt-coin trading frenzy. If i held on to all Monero i mine, i'd probably be tempted to trade it for various obscure up-and-coming coins.

    I've said all along this cryptocurrency stuff right now is on the high risk / high reward end of the investment spectrum. I took my risk by building a rig in the first place. Trading that Monero on an exchange is, to me, the equivalent of taking big returns from a risky bet and then betting it all on something even riskier. I'm content to just have the steady income my mining rig pulls in, and call that a win.

    It's not that I necessarily think a crash is coming -- I don't know what's coming, and I've never claimed to. If all these alt-coins can find niches and purposes beyond mere speculation, then there's no reason they can't survive. Some of them are focused on becoming in-game currencies for mobile apps, or other reasonably innovative ideas. But I don't know enough about most individual coins to gauge their merit.

    I picked Monero because it had a clear function and utility distinct from Bitcoin. Sure, after the fact, it sounds smart ... But I'm sure if I engaged in enough analysis and prognostication, I'd end up wildly wrong about something eventually, no matter how rational my reasoning. I'm trying to avoid letting success blind me to the risks or fool me into thinking there isn't a component of luck involved.

    #1076 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    So what's the effect of the recently announced Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities...reading articles that exchanges are prime targets for hack exploits.

    it's too soon to tell.

    my armchair analysis is this could lead to a significant rise in transaction fees. the vulnerabilities HAVE to be patched, and unfortunately the fix requires a pretty significant permanent performance downgrade for the vast majority of processors in use on Earth ... but it'd be pretty tough to actually hack into an exchange using these vulnerabilities. tough, not impossible, which is why this thing is so scary. not just for crypto exchanges, but for anyone with anything sensitive stored on the cloud.

    #1078 2 years ago
    Quoted from robertmee:

    Yeah the more I read on it, the less comfortable I am...while I'm fairly tech savvy (an engineer) I've resisted putting anything on the cloud...I don't even store passwords in my browser. Guess that bit of paranoia is paying off. The only thing I do online as far as vulnerability is banking and I'm rethinking approaches to that.
    On a side note I was going to drop 10k on crypto a couple of weeks ago just for fun. I found the process extremely problematic. I couldn't use coinbase as I was interested in XRP when it hit a dollar. Both Kraken and BitStamp crashed or broke and left me with unverified accounts. Could have trippled my money as XRP went to $3...I took it as a sign that it's not mainstream enough for me yet.

    trust me that story is NOT unusual. i would say more than half the people who are like "i should buy a little bit of [coin x]" end up finding getting approved by the exchanges extremely challenging, and don't make it in time before [coin x] goes through the roof. :/ as a miner, i got to skip that barrel of fun - i never had to deposit any USD.

    edit: wait, yes i did. I did it through a bitcoin ATM. It was super easy. That may be the best option for people who are struggling with getting to level 4 (or whatever) with Kraken.

    #1109 2 years ago

    i am constantly oscilating between "oh man i'm missing out on all these alt coins blowing up..." and "man i'm glad i'm not a part of this alt-coin nonsense".

    #1134 2 years ago
    Quoted from Cheese_WizardPQ:

    At the moment the real crypto challenge is to withdraw the money.
    Just try it.
    Every exchange is experiencing problem due to an overwhelming demand. The reality is that they put 90% of their staff on approving new members and deposits. Withdrawals are the last thing they're working on.
    It's the same reason why coinbase didn't add Ripple yet even if it's the 3rd biggest crypto; they're swamped. They run a 200 billions volume with low effectif.
    That's the scary part

    Ive got a bitpay Visa card with thousands of US dollars on it all from mining over the last two months. It couldn’t have been easier to set up and it’s been paying for all my groceries and meals out and general shopping.

    I have had zero issues withdrawing from exchanges.

    #1141 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    Same card, but it seems the US market is currently unaffected:

    Yeah my card still works fine — the problem was with a European issuer not following regulations.

    #1156 2 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    What's stopping you from creating a cryptonews website/Facebook page/Twitter account/whatever and posting fake news that you execute trades on before everyone else?

    if you think you're smart enough to dupe lots of people, go for it. i think you'll discover it's far harder and more time consuming than you think, not just to make a convincing fake, but to attract enough people to it to matter, let alone getting them to actually spend money based on your lies.

    and then assuming all that happens, then eventually if you got found out (the internet is far less anonymous than most people realize) you might be facing consequences from multiple fronts ... legal, social, and employment based potentially, sure, but also any shady individuals you happened to dupe might come after you in various ways.

    #1158 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    I was going to let it keep riding, but I saw that Sun’s presentation was a flop and then news broke out that TRON’s whitepaper is mostly a copy/paste job from other tokens’ whitepapers, then I knew I had to get out. I kept only 1000 TRX. In my opinion, Justin Sun is likely a conman but TRX has enough money flowing into it that they could hire a world class team to actually build TRON into a real project worthy of its hype.

    you have got to be kidding me. some of y'all's internal alarm bells are broken.

    #1168 2 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    » YouTube video

    "how do i buy bitcoin?" "it's easy. just go online and give them your credit card number."

    clearly nobody at Late Night has ever bought any bitcoin. :/

    (Other than that, though, amusing video!)

    #1182 2 years ago

    sorry guys, i believe in the blockchain and cryptocurrency in general, and in many of the current existing coins, too, but .... this alt-coin *market* right now is total BS. it's all whales forming cabals and colluding to manipulate prices. it's a shame that interesting technological ideas are being totally subsumed by boring old corrupt financial ones.

    it's easy to make money right now since money is simply flooding into the market from all corners of the earth, but i dunno. be careful, folks.

    #1184 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    And it only took 24 pages to come around to reality.

    nope, re-read what i wrote. nothing like your position. also, i'm talking about obscure alt coins, not the major players like bitcoin and monero and so on.

    #1185 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    to bet any real money on bitcoin today is silly.

    anyone who put money into bitcoin the day you posted this has seen a 300% return on their investment (in 90 days). it's about as wrong as someone can be about something.

    #1190 2 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    My position has always been that this is speculation not an investment.

    speculation is merely a high risk investment. that's literally what those words mean. all investments are gambling. every single one. the only difference is the terms of the bet.

    i'm not sure what you think the distinction is between those two things, but i and i think almost everyone else here have always agreed that cryptocurrency investments are on the riskier side of the spectrum. it's definitely risky. not denying that.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    It's just funny that you have picked a winner in Bitcoin, and see the other coins for what they are - gambling.

    i didn't intend to say anything like that. I neither hold bitcoin nor do i think all other coins are bad. (i do use Bitcoin as a medium to get the cash from the coins i mine onto my Visa card, but that's just a necessary step in the process).

    i said i believe in the blockchain technology, along with Bitcoin, Monero, and many other coins themselves. what i don't like is the blatant market manipulation by herds of whales temporarily pumping up small, new alt coins, which is something that has really exploded in the last 2-3 weeks. there are literally hundreds of alt coins out there trying to carve a niche for themselves. most will fail, sure, but some will succeed. i don't think the big-money pump and dump cabals are helping anyone in the long term.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    It's like my buddy who said the same thing about Pets.com. It was the one internet stock that was going to make it. He was also up 300% before it went to 0.

    that's not how investing works, bub. investments are about timing, and your timing was simply wrong. you can't just say "someday that stock will be worthless." someday, EVERY stock will be worthless.

    you said bitcoin was a bad investment, and it then tripled in value. that's called being wrong. there's no way around it, man.

    i mean if you want to make another prognostication today, and again tell people where its value headed, be my guest. i don't know and i have never claimed to know (i feel like i've said that a dozen times on this thread). but your prediction 86 days ago was quantifiably terrible investment advice if we use actual real world results as our yardstick.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Bitcoin is no different than the other coins, it has grown only because a lot of people have thrown a lot of money at it.

    i kind of agree with that, but there are thousands of examples of products gaining market dominance without being technologically superior to other options. betamax was better than VHS. The Dreamcast was better than the PlayStation. The Zune had more storage and more features than the iPod, and was cheaper too.

    so sure, Bitcoin's only advantage is name recognition and market acceptance, but frankly those are critically important factors if you're considering using it as a currency or value store. it's literally the same reason gold has "inherent" value. name recognition and market acceptance on a massive scale.

    but i think something you're missing is that Bitcoin isn't really the "big winner" in the market over the last month. it's been pretty flat while other coins have shot up in value.

    #1194 2 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    This is the actual homepage for Kraken right now.
    They don't have a single designer on staff who could whip up a quick "we're down" page? They don't already have a down page in place as a fallback? This is web hosting 101. Idiots.

    they aren't a small company, and they're expanding like mad -- my niece is being recruited by them. it is absurd that they would allow their public face to be such a clown show.

    #1204 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    I was asking Pez punk, not you. Your background was already made pretty clear in your previous posts. Good luck with your future endeavors.

    i failed out of second grade and now i'm a professional clown who makes balloon animals at childrens' birthday parties.

    keep attacking me instead of the points i'm making if it makes you feel better.

    #1207 2 years ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    Attacking people is your job. I was only asking a question which you will not answer for obvious reasons.

    i told you. i make balloon animals for a living. I'm throwing you a softball since my job title is apparently what you really want to base your arguments on.

    Three months ago dude said Bitcoin was a bad investment. it then tripled in value. in the real world, that's called being wrong, regardless of the rationale behind his wrong assertion.

    #1225 2 years ago

    haha. as if the history of the last 40 years isn't the story of huge corporations constantly being supplanted by unexpected upstarts.

    #1231 2 years ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    just curious, anyone else build a mining rig?
    I gained interest after my one bitcoin made 15k, that I bought back in 2015 ish.
    I started mining with my video card on my personal computer it has a 1080 hydro copper. it's making between 4-6 bucks a day. Overclocking brings in another 50 cents or so, don't think overclocking is worth it, because I'd rather my video card last a couple years.
    I heard about those antminers as well, but those things are loud and if you don't make your 7k back in a certain amount of time your screwed, since they become more inefficient as time goes on and there is no resell value. the more of a certain antminer is out there mining in a pool, the more difficult it is to mine.
    Not sure mining is the way to go, seems like trading crypto currency or crypto kittens would be better money spent. It's impossible to buy video cards now anyway. If you can find them, they are double in price.
    interesting side hobby anyway.

    IMG_1901[1] (resized).JPG

    this is my mining rig. I'm using 8 Radeon Vega 56's, and two Radeon R390's. It's pulling in between $70 and $100 a day. I have them undervolted and overclocked to use less power and generate less heat. Each card is only using about 145 watts. It works out to about $120 in electricity per month total. i run the cards very very cool. about 44 degrees Celsius. (about 90 Celsius is their thermal limit)

    i got lucky - i bought these Vega's for $399 each right before people discovered they were incredible miners (i already had the 390's from a gaming rig i built a few years ago). Nowadays the best you can do is get them for like $700 used on ebay.

    As soon as I build up enough of a coin to make the transaction fees trivial, I trade what i've mined for USD and put it on my BitPay Visa card. This rig's been paying for all our groceries and restaurants and other daily expenses with plenty left over. Through lucky timing of both hardware prices and Monero prices, the rig ended up paying for itself in about a month and a half. Everything since then has been pure profit.

    Mostly I have mined Monero over the last 3 months, but I've mined a half dozen other coins at various times. Right now my rig is pointed at the NiceHash servers. They pay in Bitcoin, which is nice because it saves me a step in the process of getting the funds on to my Visa card, and for now at least they are paying more than the other pools i've used. I do keep an eye on this daily, though. I can jump ship at any time if a particular coin suddenly becomes the most profitable to mine.

    It is totally a get-rich-slow scheme, though. You automatically start off under water (hardware costs), and you never see your profits triple in a month like you do if you simply buy a coin that goes to the moon. It's just a constant trickle that builds up over time, and doesn't tend to fluctuate too wildly. long term, though, profits for any given hardware are expected to gradually decrease over time. I don't know how long this rig will remain profitable. But one nice thing about using gamer hardware instead of specialized mining hardware -- i can sell these cards to gamers when i'm done, but ASICs are worthless when they reach the end of their profitability.

    #1244 2 years ago
    Quoted from Leeb18509:

    Actually it's just about that easy to start mining with these things. But the hardware is just as spendy. I got the bug about a month ago.

    I can’t speak for operating ASICs like those, but I wouldn’t recommend building a dedicated custom mining rig to anyone who hasn’t built a bunch of computers before and doesn’t have experience with overclocking.

    On the other hand, simply buying a nice video card and downloading the NiceHash program is really pretty simple.

    #1260 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    TRON (TRX) has dropped 74% in 11 days.

    yeah but that was a special case of extreme fraud and ineptitude.

    #1266 2 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Left in the open isn't as effective as a cooling housing that is forcing air in/out in specific ways.... because you aren't moving the ambient air or really getting the hot air 'away' when just left open.

    i keep the door to my office closed. it has two windows, both are slightly open. the rig sits below one of the windows, with its fans sucking air in from outside. the other window has a stand-up fan blowing air out the window. i can control the temperature in my office very precisely just by turning that fan between off/low/med/hi. on hi, it quickly turns frigid in here. when off, it gets pretty hot. the fan is usually on "low".

    #1295 2 years ago

    I bought a small chunk of bitcoin for the first time at $9900.

    #1321 2 years ago
    Quoted from BigT:

    If anyone is interested the US Marshall’s are auctioning off some bit coins...

    lol even after the crash, that is approximately $41 million worth of bitcoin. holy shit, good for them. hope some of it goes to their mental health services -- U.S. Marshalls see some of the most fucked up shit humanity has to offer. You don't want to hear the details. My mother worked in mental health services for them, and they had a very high rate of PTSD / STSD and other disorders stemming from the jobs they had to do.

    #1342 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I can't wait my second rig goes live tonight. I was able to Source 6 RX 580 s at a reasonable price about four to six weeks ago.
    Just waiting on my power supplies and memory and that all comes this afternoon.
    Sticking with mining zcash with my first rig and probably siacoin and ether with my second one.

    picking up the 580s a month ago was a very nice choice! Consider giving NiceHash a try with this new rig - my 390's do extremely well on it, and they are similar architecture.

    #1361 2 years ago
    Quoted from Shoot_Again:

    There is a ton of talk about coin but I am surprized that pinsiders do not discuss ATM’s.
    I would think this crypto beast would be much healthier with some food
    Anyone have investment or own one of these?

    i don't own one, but i did use one a couple times. once to withdraw and once to deposit. both transactions were pretty easy.

    #1365 2 years ago

    ugh dude keeps typing "morale of the story" instead of "moral of the story" and it's driving me crazy.

    #1373 2 years ago

    Just paid for my family’s spring break condo with returns from mining. Whether the market is up or down, my rig keeps chugging along.

    #1380 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Edit: Not sure if this is the best place to be posting my mining tables, but you make do with what you have.

    very nice!

    Quoted from bellbrand:

    I would like to learn how to mine

    First of all, i wouldn't recommend it if you haven't built a bunch of computers before. It can sometimes be very tricky getting 6 (or whatever) video cards all working smoothly on one system.

    Second, it's not a sure thing. It's a risk, just like buying and trading cryptos. There's always the possibility that someone will come out with an ASIC for these algorithms, making your GPU mining rig useless for mining. And there's always the risk that alt-coins will crash to the point that mining them isn't profitable anymore.

    Third, it's a get-rich-slow scheme. You pay a lot of money up front and it takes months to make back what you put into it. I got lucky with my timing and my rig paid for itself in about 2.5 months, but considering today's hardware prices and mining rates, i think the break even point if you started right now is more like 7-9 months. That could change if video card supplies get replenished in the market (and AMD says they are ramping up production), but right now there's a major drought, and people are paying absurd prices for GPUs.

    That said ... the passive income is quite nice, and I do enjoy messing with these things just as a side hobby.

    #1399 2 years ago

    i'm putting my mining rig up for sale. it's been really good to me. i'm happy to help anyone out with support and advice (within reason) if they buy it. i think i could ebay it for a lot more than this, but i wanted to give you guys a crack at it before i auction it off.

    keep in mind you don't necessarily have to make back the whole cost of the rig -- much like a pinball machine, you could operate it for a while, and then sell it on (or part it out -- those 6 Vega 56 video cards can go a long way towards making your money back).


    mods -- i don't THINK i'm breaking any rules with this listing, but if so, my apologies. I thought this was the most proper way to let people know i'm selling it.

    PS - i will also accept bitcoin as payment if anyone wants to pay that way.

    #1416 2 years ago
    Quoted from mattosborn:

    Why would anyone sell a machine that pumps out money?
    If I had a goose that laid golden eggs I'd clip its wings and keep that bitch fed until it croaked....

    operators sell their pinball machines all the time while they're still earning money.

    by the way, i think most operators would LOVE to own a pin that made $30 a day...

    #1432 2 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I think another contributing factor with the price decline is that new Bitcoins cost a lot in energy to mine, more then ever.
    At some point with prices dropping, and maybe we are already there, it's going to cost more in power to mine a single Bitcoin then what what one is worth.

    The amount of hash power per watt a miner can output is variable, though. It increases over time as methods and hardware improve. As semiconductor technology improves, the amount of energy consumed by mining and transactions shrinks.

    That said, yeah, by design, it gets harder and harder to mine them until there aren't any left. But that's a feature, not a bug.

    What happens is miners get reimbursed by transaction fees for maintaining the distributed blockchain. I am not privvy to the accounting records of the huge bitcoin mining operations, so I don't know if they're making a killing or not, but I suspect they are doing fine.

    From a small miner's perspective, there are always hundreds of alt-coins to mine. I haven't mined any bitcoin in all the time i've owned my rig (i mine other coins, trade them for bitcoin, then trade bitcoin for dollars).

    #1458 2 years ago
    Quoted from XXVII:

    I still think it might, which is why I haven't cashed out my crypto holdings. As has been said throughout this thread, Bitcoin may not be the future, but cryptocurrency and the blockchain certainly are, which is why I and most of the other crypto enthusiasts here put our money into lots of different currencies and not just Bitcoin. Right now, it's a matter of luck and good judgment in choosing the right crypto coins to invest in. Bitcoin may not make it after Tether gets hammered, but at least one of the currencies out there right now probably will.

    Maybe, maybe not. I think there's a decent chance Bitcoin stays around long term. The coin actually works pretty well at the moment. Transactions were bogged down when its value exploded, but right now, transactions are pretty fast and cheap.

    I mean right now, assuming buyer and seller can agree to a price, you can make really large purchases of any arbitrary size (an expensive pinball machine for example, or a new home, or whatever) without money orders, or waiting for checks to clear, or calling your bank, or going to an ATM, or meeting in person to exchange cash. the transaction fee would be completely trivial, as would be the processing time.

    i'm being redundant, but it bears repeating that the blockchain allows large transactions to take place without the help of financial institutions, banks, middlemen, or physical currency ... and without the delays those hassles impose.

    #1467 2 years ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    vega mining still profitable?

    sure, although i wouldn't buy cards at today's prices. i think i'm making like $35 a day with my 8 Vegas. it was more like $60/day for most of my mining time, and peaked around $100/day at one point briefly. but i'll take it. electricity only costs about $4 a day.

    #1471 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Are you still mining Monero? I'm juggling ZEC and ETH currently.
    I want one wallet for pretty much everything....Got any recommendations?

    NiceHash CryptoNight is the most profitable for Vega cards, but my Radeon 390s are best used mining ETH (also through NiceHash). When i was mining coins directly, I used separate wallets for everything -- I don't have a convenient recommendation there. I like NiceHash because regardless of what you mine, they pay out in Bitcoin, which is easy to manage and turn into USD.

    1 week later
    #1522 2 years ago

    Sold my mining rig for almost 2 times what it cost to build.

    Overall my ROI for 3 months of mining was roughly 400% ... the numbers are a little fuzzy because I didn’t sell quite everything. I still have 2 Vegas and 2 other lesser cards mining. Also doesn’t factor in my time spent building and tuning it.

    But I’ll be happy to build another rig next fall with the next wave of GPUs, depending on the market conditions of course.

    #1531 2 years ago

    when you make transactions on the blockchain, you pay a fee (to the miners whose machines maintain the blockchain).

    The fee varies depending on network and market conditions -- during the bitcoin explosion before the new year, transaction fees were outlandish, but i moved some bitcoin around yesterday and the fee was less than a dollar.

    3 weeks later
    #1579 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I'll explain bitcoin for ya!

    news flash: bitcoin goes up and down. it's still up 700% compared to one year ago. can your investments say the same?

    #1588 2 years ago
    Quoted from Cleanroom:

    Fake money = Fake returns

    it's pretty trivial to move between Bitcoin and US Dollars once you get an account set up. I have a debit card that i use everywhere, funded purely by my cryptomining. the house for my family's vacation next week was paid for with cryptomining as well. my returns most certainly were not fake.

    #1600 2 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    Because you only sent 42 cents

    Transaction fees are not based on amount of the transaction.

    Quoted from RonSS:

    A cash transaction would have cost $0.00

    You don’t get it.

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