(Topic ID: 200502)

Somebody explain Bitcoin to me

By Pinballlew

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by toyotaboy
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    #2 6 years ago

    IMHO. Bitcoin is an example of valuing something based on it's rarity, for bartering purposes, like Gold. That's why it is convertible to USD. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value as a manufacturing metal like silver has, gold has some but not much value in this manner either, so gold is a decent comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin's rarity is based on limiting "mining" licenses, to people who can create new bitcoins. None of this, the rarity portion of it, is regulated, so it's rarity is based on your belief that that's what is happening. If bitcoin falters, like China shutdown some exchanges in the past, or someone suddenly "discovers" a large cache of bitcoins, there's no one to complain to. There's a leap of faith here.

    Anyway, digital currency carries a code list with it describing the transaction details everytime it is used. At this time, most transaction are just a change in ownership rather then actually buying something, as those opportunities, buying stuff is still limited. The code behind the bitcoin has some value going forward, but buying a bitcoin does not get you ownership in that technology.

    Almost everybody buys bitcoin hoping to unload it to someone else by converting it to an established government backed currency, USD or otherwise. The ability to liquidate your position, and ease of doing that, are what's making bitcoin move price-wise, IMHO, like it has recently. Illiquidity would make the value crash, so you are just a few bitcoin exchange closings away from a value crash.

    Gold historically gained value in times of inflation, because gold's rarity does not change over time, and fiat currency rarity does change. In the past, USD were backed by gold to limit inflation, and also limited economic growth, which become unacceptable during downturns in the economy as the government could not issue more fiat to bring us out of it. Since 1968, USD are no longer backed by gold but gold has a history of trust as an investment, which means eventually convertible to USD. That's the important part, everyone eventually wants USD conversion, same with Bitcoin.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Most of the post above is not very accurate. Butcoin is defined as one of many "decentralized crypto-currencies". It's essentially the time that is estimated to take to solve a very complex computer algoryrthm. The more complex the algoryrthm, more valuable the crypto currency or coin. The value of any crypto currency is actually predetermined because the time that it will take to solve it's algorithm is know long before anyone tries to solve such problems.
    It's the value vs. OTHER centralized currencies like the US dollar that changes quite a bit. The relative value of all other crypto-currencies are almost always compared against bitcoin and that in turn is compared to the USD and all other currency exchange rates.

    Take it with a grain of salt then. It's comparison to gold is a good one, and gold has a history. A "limited production" currency, like bitcoin or gold or any other crypto currency does not have a lasting value for economic exchange, as it captures it's value based on rarity. maybe bitcoin morphs into something other than a currency. It's value as a currency is smoke and mirrors. It's value as a transaction verifiable based currency is a good one however, so really the originators of bitcoin should have sold stock in that technology instead of trying it as a currency in itself. i would have bought that stock if there was a patent behind it. There's actual value in that case.

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from ExtremePinball:

    Clearly you are referencing US Gov fiat paper, correct?
    Fact: In the last 2 years, the value of U.S. fiat paper has decreased about 4%. U.S. fiat paper is regularly counterfeited. Finally, there is NO LIMIT to the amount of U.S. fiat currency being produced, therefore its value MUST decrease under the laws of supply & demand.
    Fact: In the last 2 years, the value of Bitcoin has increased roughly 7,000%. Bitcoin cannot be counterfeited. There is a finite limit to the total number of Bitcoins which can be mined. That number is 21,000,000 coins. Additionally: Unlike stocks, bitcoin can be traded in fractions. No, you cannot buy 1/100 of a share of Berkshire-Hathaway. But, you CAN buy 1/100 of a bitcoin, currently costing you about $57.63.
    Note: I own, and actively trade, Bitcoin, Ethereum & Litecoin. These are the 3 most popular of the dozens of crypto-currencies. I also use Bitcoin as a method of payment for goods & services.
    In my opinion, crypo-currencies are the future. Currently, there is a TREMENDOUS amount of short, and possibly long term upside in owning/trading cryptos.
    Again, in my opinion, stocks & fiat currencies are far too easily and frequently manipulated. Therefore, I currently have no faith in either of these financial products.

    Unfortunately this is incorrect. Bitcoin is a worldwide currency. The U.S. makes up a very tiny portion of the global crypto-coin market. It is unlikely that the entire world eventually wants a USD conversion. In fact, one of the largest trading platforms, Bitfinex, is ceasing all U.S. related trades and closing all U.S. accounts on Nov 9. In the global Bitcoin market, the U.S. is completely irrelevant. So, the reality is quite the opposite. People all over the world are trading in their fiat currencies for Bitcoin, etc. And the more businesses that accept bitcoin, and the more governments that accept bitcoin, the higher it goes.
    Supply and demand at its finest.

    Hopefully tax payers won't have to bail you bitcoin "investors" out. Bitcoin has a total value less than $100 billion. Counterfeiting is of no concern to 99.9% of us. What exactly IS the "TREMENDOUS amount of...upside in owning/trading cryptos? Nice statement but no facts. Competing crypto currencies actually makes your case even less plausible. Fiat currency is backed by the trusted ability of the government to grow the economy and collect income taxes to pay off its debts (including US bonds) and not to be constricted by the rarity of the backing means. This has been proven with gold as I've said. You are fooling yourself with technical mumbo jumbo and "investing" in something you can't even explain.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    i'm still trying to figure out how and where you would "mine" these coins? How does that work?

    Your best bet is to read up on it at other online sources, rather then read it as re-gurgitated here. At best bitcoin or other cryptos has a finite shelf life and it will end badly for some people left holding the bag with too much "invested". This will happen because of a lack of "demand" as others have described it for rationalizing the value. The lack of demand will happen becuse the exchanges will be closed down. It's another way for people to make money without actually doing anything to earn it. JJP, Stern, Spooky, maybe American Pinball, these people PRODUCE a product, something worthwhile. Bitcoin is a Netflix program in the making, "House of Cards".

    #11 6 years ago

    Think about this. You trade bitcoin and if you make money it gets taxed. In USD.

    #17 6 years ago

    For anyone stating that "investing" in bitcoin is like buying US stocks: Stock prices reflect the intrinsic value of the company, based on various factors, but the company is providing value by producing something, making pinball machines for example. The stock value rises and falls based on that intrinsic value and also demand for it's stock that's true, and the amount of stock is limited as well. Investing in bitcoin is like buying a stock in an idea that something is valuable because of its controlled scarcity. Like buying Apple stock because OMG there's only 5.17 billion shares, it's scarce! And if Apple was just a computer generating stock shares.

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    minor correction: 1933, not 1968.

    Actually it was 1972 that finalized the end of the gold standard. The price of gold was set at $35 until then and the price was allowed to fluctuate and private ownership was allowed after Nixon signed the paperwork. So there was no more reason for the US to hold gold reserves in Ft Knox and the US Mint started sell the reserves off at market values. FDR did take away the gold backing of a USD in 1933 because he needed to inflate us out of the Depression. You are correct about that.

    #59 6 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    ...that puts it two steps ahead of the U.S. dollar. remember that all currency is fundamentally only backed by a society's mass acceptance that it has intrinsic value. you can't eat gold, after all..

    The USD is backed by the guaranteed probability that the economy will generate enough GDP to guarantee the amount of tax revenue that the US Government needs to collect. And that the Government is not constricted by a "rare" backing method to be able to grow and shrink the money supply to ensure the economy generates that revenue. It's why US Bonds are considered the safest investment in the world, the fact that guaranteed tax revenue will be used to pay off that debt. "Fiat" is a term bitcoiners or cryptos focus on to mean that the actual money is worthless and can be replaced by something, bitcoin or crypto currency, that truly is worthless. It's a completely naive belief. Running $1 trillion deficits is another story.....some day the amount of debt re-payment will be unsustainable if this continues.

    The US proved in 1933 that basing money's value on a commodity's "rareness" is a ticket to economic disaster and the variables (money supply/interest rates) need to be more controllable to steer a huge economy.

    #84 6 years ago

    Actually gold is used for dental reasons, try filling a tooth with bitcoin.

    -2
    #91 6 years ago

    I am going to have to drain this topic for myself. Reading this is like watching your kids make harmful mistakes after you've done everything to convince them not to do something. You crypto currency people as my Mom always says, "are in for a rude awakening". Why don't we make me doing jumping jacks a currency? There's only so many I can do and as I get older I can do even less of them. So it's scarce and getter rarer. A great foundation for a currency. Sayonara.

    1 month later
    #387 6 years ago

    It is not a "currency". That's the fundamental issue here. Who here has bought something with bitcoin and wishes they just hoarded it like everybody else? That pizza you bought today, if bitcoin reacts like bitcoin investors are saying and keeps going up, that pizza cost you $500 2 years from now. Why WOULD you spend it, thinking it will be worth more tomorrow and beyond?

    1 month later
    #1230 6 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    there's something to be said about being first, and becoming the default format that everything else is based. Every exchange measures your cryptocurrency against bitcoin. For instance XRP Ripple is currently worth $2.03 each coin, or 0.00014683 BTC. It's sort of like how Beta tapes were a superior format, but VHS was first so it beat out Beta (or Sony blu-ray over microsoft's HD-DVD).

    That's what Yahoo said when Google came along.

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